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Blind Fool
11-12-2008, 01:03 PM
I've recently noticed a real drop in the quality of posted guides to the main page, lacking real detail on how to get the achievements (some to the point that I have had to use other sites to obtain the achievement).

I am guessing they are being rushed through to list them on the main page, a classic example of this is the guide to Saints Row 2, several of the achievements have the guide description;I am putting some random text in here and coloring it red so I can find it easily when I need to go back to it and edit it.The Quantum of Solace guide also needs much work, for example to collect the cell phones I should;To takedown an enemy, run up to them and press the right stick in and it will prompt you what button to press, i did about 20 of these on 007 difficulty so just imagine how quick it would be on New Recruit difficulty.I also setup a game with a friend for several online achievements and didn't get them following the guide, I can only assume the games need to be ranked or with more than X players like other games. Or is the guide wrong? Again I will have to look elsewhere for this information.

I feel it is a shame as this was once the best site for achievements and this poor quality merely to have a guide is a real let down, we all appreciate that guides take time and to force it just comes across as shoddy.

Hopefully more attention will be taken before guides are posted to the main site (surely that is the point of the guide team?) and the amazing quality this site had will be regained.

Khaos
11-12-2008, 02:31 PM
We definitely appreciate the feedback. Achievement lists and guides are our lifeblood, and we need to make sure that they are kept to the highest possible quality to keep our members' standards high, and to keep our reputation in the international gaming community.

This will be looked into to find out how things like "I'm coloring this in red and wasting space" managed to fall through the cracks.

Lucent Beam
11-12-2008, 03:41 PM
Yeah, I have a problem with this as well.
A lot of times, a thread gets stickied with lots of achievements missing or with really vague or "I'm not sure if this works" in the guide.
If it's going to be stickied or added to the guide section of the site, I think it should be as complete as possible... not as fat as possible and not completed. Otherwise it just looks like a rush job.

Blind Fool
11-12-2008, 03:44 PM
Yeah, I have a problem with this as well.
A lot of times, a thread gets stickied with lots of achievements missing or with really vague or "I'm not sure if this works" in the guide.
If it's going to be stickied or added to the guide section of the site, I think it should be as complete as possible... not as fat as possible and not completed. Otherwise it just looks like a rush job.
I don't have anything against guides being stickied and not complete, after all they take time to compile and if they are stickied more people can view them and help get them finished. What annoys me is when they are pushed to the main page/site and are incomplete or inaccurate.

SuperNova X2X
11-12-2008, 03:47 PM
Yeah, I know what you mean. The Far Cry 2 guide lacks so much detail. It hasn't even helped me. I might have a crack at writing one with someone else.

I find that Pants has done a superb job with the Gears 2 guide. That is what they should all be like.

The Pants Party
11-12-2008, 05:24 PM
We had a complaint about two weeks ago that too many "old" guides hadn't been put live, so we went through the forum and added a bunch. We were supposed to be making sure all the guides were finished and correct but some of the team may have gotten a bit post-happy and just thrown everything they saw up.

We'll go back over everything that was put up at that time and either take it down until they're ready or make the necessary changes so they are completed.

JC
11-12-2008, 06:16 PM
I think guides have got a lot better recently, but some of the guides that were written around 2 years ago for old games are mostly very poor quality.

E.g: MLB 2K6

I had to go to other sites for more help... :(

vI Starlight Iv
11-12-2008, 08:58 PM
At the end of the day there are a variety of quality that comes to the guides webbs fable 2 guide was amazing and then yu look at the saints row 2 guide and it sucks

Taker447
11-12-2008, 09:28 PM
At the end of the day there are a variety of quality that comes to the guides webbs fable 2 guide was amazing and then yu look at the saints row 2 guide and it sucks
yea but the thing is the Fable 2 guide was done by an experienced guide writer. where as most of these other guides are just done by first timers.

J.Waddo
11-12-2008, 09:56 PM
I have to agree that the guides written by experienced members are much better than the ones by new members (No Offence). Maybe a post count restriction should be put on writing guide (50 for eg.)

P.s - I think the Fifa 09 is awesome and the writer should be awarded with free games:p

Bishop24
11-12-2008, 10:07 PM
To OP, in Quantum of Solace you can only get the online achievements in Ranked Matches. That is what you were talking about correct?

Also I would have to agree with WaDinHo on the post count requirements to make guides. I think that some people try to rush guides out before they know enough info on how to get the achievements. I know it won't be implemented because this site wants to have the community help out but it might need to be looked into.

I've also seen a rapid increase in people trying to write guides before a game is even out. Also with this guide contest expect more guides to be unfinished and not great as they try to rush them out.

Blind Fool
11-13-2008, 01:00 PM
To OP, in Quantum of Solace you can only get the online achievements in Ranked Matches. That is what you were talking about correct?I assumed as much, but the guide never mentions this fact at all. Something you would think should be included given the importance.Also I would have to agree with WaDinHo on the post count requirements to make guides. I think that some people try to rush guides out before they know enough info on how to get the achievements. I know it won't be implemented because this site wants to have the community help out but it might need to be looked into.I disagree a post count restriction would be any use, anyone can write a guide and you don't have to have been here for a while to write one of any quality.

I assumed (maybe wrongly I don't know) that the guide team is there to write guides that aren't done or to check and tidy up guides by other people to ensure they meet a standard of quality. Therefore why restrict people, the site doesn't have to use anyones guide after all!

TheLastAntidote
11-13-2008, 02:14 PM
I agree with everyone about the guides lately being of poor quality. Sometimes I feel the information doesn't give much help and other times the guides just state the obvious, but never actually give you any tips or tricks to use. An example from LEGO Batman would be the "Nice Outfit!" achievement where it states, "This i think you have to be the hero side as batman and robin for this i am not sure though." How is that helpful for anyone to use? Why not state where or how to get the suits instead? Also, the "I'm not sure though" only makes me think that the guide was rushed to be put out without any effort being put into making it.

Much like the original post, I too have gone to other sites lately to find better guides. Another flaw I've been seeing recently with guides is the extremely poor spelling and grammar. Take a look again at LEGO Batman's guide and there's plenty of it there, such like on the "Unbreakable" achievement. "I recommend you do this on the first villain level if memorize the level and you now where the enemies come out you will get this frailly easy. Also you must have NO extras on what so ever if you have extras on then you will not be able to get this.." That statement is fragmented, mis-spelled, missing any sort of punctuation, and hard to understand.

After reading it over a few times you figure out it's trying to say "I recommend you do this on the first villain level. If you memorize the level and know where the enemies come out, you will get this fairly easy. Also, you must have NO extras on whatsoever. If you have extras on, then you will not be able to get this."

A majority of the achievements are like this on that guide. I'm not saying the guide needs to be picture perfect, but when you need to analyze a statement to understand what it is you need to do, it makes it so easy to dismiss the site sometimes and go somewhere else (which I don't like doing).

I just wanted to point these things out so that they could be recognized and fixed so that the site stays as the go-to site for help on achievements.

Steelhead
11-13-2008, 02:29 PM
I think Khaos's guides should be used as a guideline for future guide writers. Those things are so damn detailed that you can't possibly miss anything. Most of them even tell you how to play the game (his Backgammon guide is a great example of this).

He gives you tips on getting the achievements legit AND lists any possible ways to boost each one. They're always very well done.

I'm not saying his guides are the only ones that are well done. Many other guide writers do a kick ass job too. His just popped into my mind as something that would be a great example for anyone attempting to write one.

The Pants Party
11-13-2008, 03:01 PM
There is of course this thread if you find issues with guides:
http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showthread.php?t=57731

And if you don't like a current guide, we do encourage people to write their own if they feel they can do better. The main problem I have with "feedback" like this is that the people who complain often do nothing to help the problem when they are very capable of doing so. Most times when guides are pushed to the main page that aren't that great, it is because the guide team has not played the game and can't confirm anything so we just take the guide writer's word for it. Granted, gross errors like "I am not sure though" and basic spelling/grammar should be fixed by us (and again, the recent guides were a result of too many being put up at once when someone's fine tooth comb was broken) but for the most part, if a guide isn't up to snuff, we should really hear about it right away or someone should be putting out a new one.

Be proactive, guys...

UK Mylo
11-13-2008, 03:04 PM
P.s - I think the Fifa 09 is awesome and the writer should be awarded with free games:p

Lol, nice try Wad.......

Blind Fool
11-13-2008, 03:06 PM
I did post some comments in that thread, however I haven't tried to write a guide before for one simple reason.

I rarely play online and so can't comment on those. Also by the time I get a game in the Uk there are 5 guides written and unless I wait 2 more weeks (so I can understand the game enough) it's been posted and pointless me trying.

Unless of cause I just take everyone else's work and make a compilation guide.

Bishop24
11-13-2008, 03:20 PM
And if you don't like a current guide, we do encourage people to write their own if they feel they can do better. The main problem I have with "feedback" like this is that the people who complain often do nothing to help the problem when they are very capable of doing so.

Be proactive, guys...

I know that comment was not directed at any one individual person but I have posted 7 achievement guides to this site. So I feel I have the right to complain when a guide is not up to x360a standard and has spelling and punctuation mistakes throughout the guide.

I also feel that certain guides should not get a sticky unless they have been checked by a Guide Team member. I know that everyone does not get paid to do anything on this site and that most guides are checked but that's what the Guide Team is here for. And The Last Antidote posted up about the Lego Batman guide that is not up to x360a standards, so hopefully it gets fixed.

TheLastAntidote
11-13-2008, 03:28 PM
I'm kinda in the same boat as Blind Fool where by the time I get a game, there's a guide already out. I got LEGO Batman in from Gamefly Monday (11/10). Also, sometimes in playing a game, if I'm stuck on achievements, I feel it wouldn't be worth me writing a guide with missing achievements.

As an example, in The Darkness, I'm still missing "Roadkill", "Gunslinger" and "Completionist". Who am I to try and write a guide for those when I can't even achieve them myself. And to write "for the Roadkill achievement, be sure to try and kill all the guys in the tunnel before the end of that segment. Do this and you'll unlock this one." is a cop-out and stating the obvious. Therefore I wouldn't write it.

I hope no one takes my comments as an attack, and I fully understand that the site and it's team extend us a courtesy with these guides that we are privileged to get to use. We just care about the site and want it to be the best that it can be so we point these things out to get fixed. And maybe someday I will be ahead of the rest on a game and try and write a guide to be proactive.

The Pants Party
11-13-2008, 04:05 PM
I know that comment was not directed at any one individual person but I have posted 7 achievement guides to this site. So I feel I have the right to complain when a guide is not up to x360a standard and has spelling and punctuation mistakes throughout the guide.

I don't think you have to "complain" per se, but just alert us and ask that it be looked into and fixed.

At any rate, no one even has to write a completely new guide. If they feel only a few achievements could be worded or described better, maybe a video added to help.. feel free to submit that info alone. A guide does not have to be written 100% by one person.

We do pride ourselves in our guides and I even took over the Gears 2 guide because I felt the one that was originally stuck and submitted just didn't cut it, especially for such a big game.

seanrock101
11-16-2008, 03:10 PM
one guide that needs alot of work has to be the graw 2 guide...it doesn't explain barely anything about missions or online i wrote one on the collection achivements(not quite finished) and the 10 achievements i wrote about are longer total than the 40 in the guide

heres the link:
http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showthread.php?t=91574&highlight=graw2

Falcongale
11-17-2008, 03:55 AM
one guide that needs alot of work has to be the graw 2 guide...it doesn't explain barely anything about missions or online i wrote one on the collection achivements(not quite finished) and the 10 achievements i wrote about are longer total than the 40 in the guide

heres the link:
http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showthread.php?t=91574&highlight=graw2

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showthread.php?t=103724

DLC and some of the other achievements dont need explaining.
Also, I'm still working on a road map similar to the Force Unleashed one for that guide.

XPL1C1T GAM3R
11-23-2008, 02:04 PM
the best guide i have seen to date is the one for lost and i kow its an easy thousand but still its the most descriptive and its also completely linear but i also think that before the guide is posted for public use it should be observed by a guide moderator so to insure its top quality

Wehttam
11-23-2008, 02:48 PM
Yeah your right mate, the guide for perfect dark zero is really not good at all, it doesn't say if the campaign difficulties can be stacked or if the multiplayer ones are cumulative, and it just says "see this other one" which annoys me. It also doesnt really have any hints or tips on how to do them quickly.