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View Full Version : Unachievable Achievements Identified and Overall Challenge


JaCKsWaS7eDL1Fe
01-15-2009, 02:31 AM
I posted this in a different thread a while back...some people seemed to like some of it so I figured I would make a thread right quick.

It was under the topic of color coding achievements (based on area of availability). I thought it would be a better idea to color code the difficulty. (Especially since you guys said the thing you are working on for ONLINE, CAMPAIGN, COOP, etc, isn't color coding and is much more complex)

POST 1 (http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showpost.php?p=1497418&postcount=26)

POST 2 (http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showpost.php?p=1497479&postcount=28)

Anyway, the general idea was to provide an easily understood guide to how hard the game will be, by breaking down the difficulty of every achievement. Completionists might be OK with a super time consuming achievement on a game they like, but if they are playing one they don't care for, it might be a huge inconvenience.

The idea is just to make sure Really Hard and Unachievable achievements don't get passed over. (After all, unless its on front page of the forums it could easily be missed)

It could be executed a few ways. (AND REMEMBER- THIS IS JUST A GENERAL RATING, ITS NOT REFLECTIVE OF INDIVIDUAL USERS SKILLS, BUT INSTEAD A WARNING TO ANY WHO MAY UNWITTINGLY STUMBLE INTO THIS KIND OF SITUATION.) * If you can do it, its a testament to your skill, and a guide to others, everything doesn't need to be a debate.

A- KEEP IT SIMPLE- Color Code only the EXTREMELY CHALLENGING/TIME CONSUMING achievements BRIGHT RED and all the glitched or online without servers (unachievable) BLACK.

- I like that method the best, because its quick, easy, and not hard to maintain.

B- Rate every achievement from Easy to Hard- Have different levels, like the Terror Alerts, so people can see the comprehensive difficulty of the overall list.

-I'm not as huge on that because it would be hard to implement, with a huge backlog of games to deal with, and the sheer difficulty of correctly rating all those.


SO, I favor having a sort of asterisk style of dealing with it, making the super hard known and the unachievable recognized. I should add, that if that is done, maybe each game could get a rating of overall difficulty, to account for anything that might be challenging but not fall under the two categories. So games could be quickly identified (And possibly even-eventually SORTED, by their class) Whether it is numeric of colored...you could search YELLOW GAMES (1's)- and you would get a list of AVATAR, NBA 2K6, MLB 2K6....or you could search Dark Red (9's) and see the likes of Chromehounds and Final Fantasy. (10's would be impossible Black like NFS Carbon)


So My Suggestion in Short

Color Identified Hard and Impossible

Overall Difficulty Ratings

Categorized Ratings to search by Easy Games or Hard Games (would eliminate a lot of threads about what easy i can play next, and help people find games right for their skill level.)

narcolepticshee
01-15-2009, 02:41 AM
It's difficult to categorize achievements into difficulty. For instance:

People may say Kung Fu Panda is extremely easy, but I find it extremely difficult to get through that game (not becuase of skill, becuase of not enjoying the game) and for instance people may find Mile High on COD4 incredibly easy, or incredibly difficult.

Also, it's pretty obvious how hard an achievement is in the relative achievement guide, if it's difficult people generally say it's difficult or you can just tell me the description how difficult it is?

Peace

JaCKsWaS7eDL1Fe
01-15-2009, 02:53 AM
when I say hard, I pretty much am referring to Seriously (Both Gears), Warlord (Far Cry 2), MP 1000 (FEAR), Commander Valor (Chromehounds)

I think we could come to a consensus over whats hard and whats not, and keep to the extremely hard...for example...depending what standards you set certain achievements could be left out. And example would be Mile High Club and No FEAR, both are challenging, but not as time consuming as 100,000 kills or Level 10 on GTA...I'd say both are easy (for me), but could admit they could be difficult.

So in cases like that maybe we'd have an extra color...Orange...to have a lesser degree of difficulty. People are always going to excel at certain games, I mean I can beat all the COD's (except WaW because it tends to corrupt save files :( ) in a day or less. But the fact that we have a Completionist's Nightmare thread is a testament to the type of achievements I am referring to could be recognized.

I'm sure we could reach a consensus on Notoriously Hard/ Time Consuming achievements...there are always going to be freaks that can do anything. The best we can do it provide as unbiased of an assessment as possible so that the information is related to the average player.

(obv someone lacking thumbs is going to think everything is hard, on the site, we don't have to cater to the minority)

EDIT: And I would argue your statement that the achievement guide make it easy to locate. Guides are often long and confusing, and reading each one just to consider a game isn't feasible, when it'd be much quicker to scan for WARNINGS. And a guide for something might say, find "six people and boost" but neglect to mention you will be boosting for 150 hours.

nightmare975
01-15-2009, 07:32 AM
How about we just identify the unachievable ones? There's no way of denying those ones.

Mustkill9
01-15-2009, 12:57 PM
Unachieveable means "that which cannot be achieved." There's only a few of those, and only a couple are semi-recent.

As for a color-coding of achievements, I don't know. I personally have never had a problem estimating the difficulty levels of achievements just by doing a LITTLE bit of reading... If I just look at page 1 of the list of threads for a game, I get a pretty good idea of what's going on.

Also I think the majority of us play games that we want to play. We will quickly realize which achievements are going to be time consuming or hard. Then we have plenty of time to decide whether we want to chase them or not.

At some point this website could become obsessive compulsive if things like your idea are added. But then again, is it obsessive compulsive to rack up 100,000 gamerscore? Maybe your idea fits with this website perfectly?

Red Rowdy 360
01-15-2009, 01:58 PM
How about half of Rayman Ravin Rabbid achievements?

The Pants Party
01-15-2009, 02:28 PM
Unachievable List:
http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showthread.php?t=117325

As for the other part, that is completely up to the writer of the guide. It isn't something we're going to require especially considering how subjective it is. Like people have said using Mile High Club as an example: some people find it impossible, some people find it easy. The only subjective score we allow is the estimated difficulty for the road maps, which again should walk people through the best order to get achievements in. They usually point out which are glitched/glitchy and which are harder than others.

Ritchie Goodall
01-15-2009, 06:22 PM
I posted this in a different thread a while back...some people seemed to like some of it so I figured I would make a thread right quick.

It was under the topic of color coding achievements (based on area of availability). I thought it would be a better idea to color code the difficulty. (Especially since you guys said the thing you are working on for ONLINE, CAMPAIGN, COOP, etc, isn't color coding and is much more complex)

POST 1 (http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showpost.php?p=1497418&postcount=26)

POST 2 (http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showpost.php?p=1497479&postcount=28)

Anyway, the general idea was to provide an easily understood guide to how hard the game will be, by breaking down the difficulty of every achievement. Completionists might be OK with a super time consuming achievement on a game they like, but if they are playing one they don't care for, it might be a huge inconvenience.

The idea is just to make sure Really Hard and Unachievable achievements don't get passed over. (After all, unless its on front page of the forums it could easily be missed)

It could be executed a few ways. (AND REMEMBER- THIS IS JUST A GENERAL RATING, ITS NOT REFLECTIVE OF INDIVIDUAL USERS SKILLS, BUT INSTEAD A WARNING TO ANY WHO MAY UNWITTINGLY STUMBLE INTO THIS KIND OF SITUATION.) * If you can do it, its a testament to your skill, and a guide to others, everything doesn't need to be a debate.

A- KEEP IT SIMPLE- Color Code only the EXTREMELY CHALLENGING/TIME CONSUMING achievements BRIGHT RED and all the glitched or online without servers (unachievable) BLACK.

- I like that method the best, because its quick, easy, and not hard to maintain.

B- Rate every achievement from Easy to Hard- Have different levels, like the Terror Alerts, so people can see the comprehensive difficulty of the overall list.

-I'm not as huge on that because it would be hard to implement, with a huge backlog of games to deal with, and the sheer difficulty of correctly rating all those.


SO, I favor having a sort of asterisk style of dealing with it, making the super hard known and the unachievable recognized. I should add, that if that is done, maybe each game could get a rating of overall difficulty, to account for anything that might be challenging but not fall under the two categories. So games could be quickly identified (And possibly even-eventually SORTED, by their class) Whether it is numeric of colored...you could search YELLOW GAMES (1's)- and you would get a list of AVATAR, NBA 2K6, MLB 2K6....or you could search Dark Red (9's) and see the likes of Chromehounds and Final Fantasy. (10's would be impossible Black like NFS Carbon)


So My Suggestion in Short

Color Identified Hard and Impossible

Overall Difficulty Ratings

Categorized Ratings to search by Easy Games or Hard Games (would eliminate a lot of threads about what easy i can play next, and help people find games right for their skill level.)


You spelt colour wrong on multiple occasions :p. Only joking but you Americans are a bit sloppy with the english language haha.

The Pants Party
01-15-2009, 06:40 PM
There wasn't really any reason to quote his entire post just to make a lame joke about American spelling, was there? Both spellings are acceptable.