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PaleGringo
02-17-2006, 06:26 AM
Here's a supplement to the other thread that had the videos by B Smo0th. Check this site out:

http://kameo.draekon.com/

Here's a quote from the section on the Forgotten Forest, about 2/3 of the way down the page:

Forgotten Forest

Required Points: 15,000,000
Videos: Rapidshare or Filefront

One of the toughest levels aside from the snow temple. The concept to completing this level is easy but pulling it off will require skillful use of Pummel Weed and obtaining brutals. Due to the heightened difficulty, we will make this level a little more in depth.

When you start, head off into the first room and the gate will close behind you. Kill the troll with a shield and free the kid, then break the gate with the bomb shell he summons. After breaking the first gate turn around and trolls will start showing up. Wait untill you have four trolls then get to the outside of them and preferable find one that is alone. Start the jab combo LT->RT->LT to enter focus. Once you have entered focus quickly use weedkiller to get a brutal then jab combo to stay in focus. Be sure to watch the health of the trolls so you only kill them with the weedkill manuver. I recommend only doing this three times if you do it a fourth time you will get one doom troll wich you don't want right now. Move on and you can come back later to finish off the remaining trolls if you do not wish to kill them now. You should have around 12 brutals by now.

Next up you will work your way to the second troll spawn. You will first have two white trolls under shells. Line up their path with the fire and they will come out of their shells then you can easily use weedkiller to get two more brutals. **Switch to the eye of strength** and move down the hill. Use Rubbles blast to kill the trolls from a distance. Make your way back up the hill after freeing the kid and use Pummel Weed's creeper to kill the bugs then take out the troll. Break the gate then chuck 3-5 rocks over the next 3 trolls then use his blast and you can get 2 frenzies if done right. Do the same thing for the next three and use weedkiller on the two trolls that pop out of wooden boxes next to the spike pit.

Make your way through the tree tunnel and a troll that throws bombs will appear. Kill him and the others with Weedkiller while attempting to get frenzies at the same time. After killing all four trolls get rid of the four green shells by getting under them and throwing them up the tree tunnel or down the slop where the third statue is. A cutscene will ensue showing the third statue, but before even going down the slope use Rubbels blast to kill the archer. Then you can go down and get brutals on the remaining trolls. Work your way up the hill and kill the four white trolls that normally hide under the shells. This is where the second troll spawn is, ignore it and move on.

Use the two trolls near the huge troll to enter focus with Pummel Weeds Jab Combo, immediatly switch to rubbel and use his non directional blast to kill the doom trolls then use it again all focused on the huge troll. Four to six more trolls with show up in the same area, kill them without entering focus then break the gate. At the end of the tunnel two bomb trolls will pop up, kill one as soon as he pops up then stay close to the other so he wont throw a bomb, but don't get to close to the archers. Then switch to Rubble and quickly move to the center pillar. Peek out and shoot the archer on the left, **be very patient** this may take several attempts of peaking out to kill him. Finally after taking out the one on the left do the same for the one on the right till he backs up then walk around the pillar and do the same thing. Go up the path and finish off the rest of the enemies but DO NOT finish the level.

Now is the point you start earning some points. You should have at least 25 brutals, but it's possible to have much more. **Switch to the eye of spirit** or at least unequip the eye of strength so you have no eye equiped and go back to the second spawn. At the end of the tree tunnel there is a point the trolls cannot pass. Lure two or more trolls to this point and use Pummel Weeds Jab combo to enter focus. If you are behind the "invisable wall" all the doom trolls will be lined up nicely so long as you are not to far back. Quickly switch to Rubble and use his blast to kill all the doom trolls. Switch to Pummel Weed to kill the last few doom trolls with Weedkiller to keep your brutal count up. Be patient and repeat this till you have no more doom trolls. You should already have more than enough for A rank by now. Kill the rest of the trolls then go back to the first troll spawn to finish killing them. After no more spawn move to the end of the level to get your A rank.


Using this method, I got Forgotten Forest done on my first go through with 26,884,915 points! My previous best was less than 14 mil.

Hope that a lot of you guys find this useful!

Minty
02-17-2006, 08:18 AM
nice one Gringo!!

will get the the rest of the 400 points from Kameo at the weekend now!

PaleGringo
02-17-2006, 08:40 AM
I'm only shy 50 now, for the Snow Temple. These things WORK! I'm off to bed (12:40am here) but I'll be seein' everybody tomorrow! (Today)

DaveWilma07
02-17-2006, 08:45 AM
lol !

Im also using B Smooths advice, and attempting to tackle my first 'A' grade when I get home from work. Think I'll start on 'Thorns Castle'.

Minty
02-17-2006, 08:52 AM
yeah, just gonna go through in order. dunno how much ass kicking i can be assed to do with pummel weed tho, gets boring after a while lol

Extra Terrestrial
02-17-2006, 11:50 AM
This is an excellent contribution PaleGringo, although it doesn't help me now, eh?

http://ntsc-uk.domino.org/images/smilie/wink.gif

I just want to clarify (again) that in my personal opinion, the order of the easiest to the hardest are:

Thorn's Castle (Easy peasy) ~ Required Points: 15,000,000
Thorn's Airship (The last two generators on the wings of the airship was hard due to the twin flying ships in one confined area) ~ Required Points: 30,000,000
Thorn's Pass (If you fall in the lava ONCE, you will have to start the whole level all over again!) ~ Required Points: 30,000,000

Now it gets harder(!)

Water Temple (The fire warriors will give you a lot of problems unless you know what you are doing and which Elemental Warrior to use) ~ Required Points: 17,000,000
Snow Temple (If either of the Yetis die, then you will have to start the level all over again - quite simple to get a lot of points though) ~ Required Points: 30,000,000
Forgotten Forest (Frustrating, hard and quite dull - you need buckets of patience to do this stage) ~ Required Points: 15,000,000

http://ntsc-uk.domino.org/images/smilie/smile.gif

PaleGringo
02-17-2006, 10:12 PM
Well... consider this wrapped up. I now have the full 1000/1000 on Kameo. Makes me think of a new thread...

doadea
02-21-2006, 06:16 PM
I don't think that some people really understand how the point system works. You don't HAVE to end the level with the most carnage/frenzies/brutals as you can get. AND, just because you have alot of carnage/frenzies/brutals does not mean that you have enough score points. People need to understand the score points, and how they work. The top score is what you have all together for the level, and the bottom score is what you have in the immidiate combo/fight you are having. The bottom score can be reset many times and you can still get an A rating. You can get the required amount of points in one part of the level, maybe halfway (depends on level) and then play like normal for the rest of the level. When I played Thorns Airship, I got my 30 million near the beginning of the level,, but after that I skipped a bunch of things, I was hit alot of times, and my score was still 60 million. You don't have to act like "if I'm hit I need to restart the level"

DaveWilma07
02-21-2006, 06:40 PM
Yes, I agree totally doadea. I have just completed the airship level and, like you, got all points needed for A at the start.

UraMallas
02-23-2006, 01:36 AM
This has helped a lot. I'm now about to take on the three "harder" score attacks and it's all thanks to you Pale Gringo! ;D

DaveWilma07
02-23-2006, 07:34 AM
I've now completed all the Thorn levels. The castle was done on A in my second attempt by using the major ruin, cyclone technique... the pass was completed on my first attempt, again using major ruin and cyclone... and the airship was done on my first attempt too. Didnt realise they would be quite this easy... but will try the temple stages soon.

DaveWilma07
02-23-2006, 03:57 PM
LOL, first attempt at Snow Temple for my A grade and Ive come away with a staggering 300 million points!! My secret ..?? Take it slow.. and stick to ash, chilla and deep blue for brutals! Use major ruin for those all important focus points. Once you have cycloned up in the 2 towers you can go for doomed trolls and knock them over the side for combined frenzies, brutals and carnage points. Rock on!

Alive741
02-26-2006, 04:43 AM
Can someone please explain the point system a little more to me?

Until I read this thread, I thought that you needed to pass the entire level without getting hit (as getting hit drops your Brutal/Carnage/Frenzy scores)...

How do you get the bottom number (which is apparently the score for the actual battle you are on) into the top score (which is the total score for the level?) Every time I play, the bottom score stays down there for the entire level, and never gets added to the top (total level) score. At the end I never have enough points, because I always end up getting hit, so the multipliers for Brutal/Carnage/Frenzy are not high enough for a massive score.

Am I missing something completely? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

PaleGringo
02-26-2006, 06:23 AM
Here's my understanding, and I have 1000/1000 gamerscore for this one so take this for what its worth.

All three are "multipliers." So imagine them as dependent variables that affect a base score. Not sure how good any of us are with algebra (especially me :D) but let's call them like so:

Carnage = x
Brutal = y
Frenzy = z

And to make it a square, we'll call the base Score for offing a foe "s"

Every time you get a kill without being hit, you get a Carnage, x. So, for example, if you just box your way through an entire level with Pummel Weed's jabs, taking breaks between each foe (if that's possible) and NOT getting into Warrior Focus, you'll reasonably have a high number of x variables. So for the first time you get a kill, it's x + s (one carnage, plus the base score). The next one will get you an additional bonus, 2x + s, and that's added to whatever you got previously in the level.

Brutals are where you can kill a foe in a single maneuver. Uppercut onto spikes, burning oil, or low health enemies are all examples. Brutals are worth more than Carnage, so y > x. If you get a Brutal, you nominally also get a carnage, so really it's y + x + s for your first Brutal. If you take out 5 people in a level, three of them Brutal, your scoring for the next baddie will be 3y + 5x + s.

A Frenzy is where you kill a succession of foes within a 5 second span (think Double kill or Triple Kill or Killing Spree...). Conceivably, they are harder to get than Brutals and not necessarily inclusive. Thus, z > y > x. Suppose halfway through a level, you have 28 Frenzies, 35 Brutals, and 59 Carnages. The scoring for the next oponent will be 28z + 35y +59x + s. Thus, you can probably start to see the benefits of higher scoring multipliers, especially if you earn them early on.

Now I don't have the exact metrics for it but let's throw some numbers in so we can see how this works out.

s = 50
x = 0.1(s)
y = 0.25(s)
z = 0.4(s)

So for your first kill, a carnage by itself, you'll get 0.1(50) + 50 = 55 points
For the sixth kill in the example above you'll get 3(0.25(50)) + 5(0.1(50)) + 50 = 112.5 points
And for our frenzy example halfway through a level, you'd get 28(0.4(50)) + 35(0.25(50)) + 59(0.1(50)) + 50 = 1192.5 points for that 60th enemy, on top of whatever you have prior to that. A big jump from 50 some odd points per enemy.

So lets's take it to the last enemy of the level... say 120 enemies, you got hit 17 times. Your final numbers are 102 Carnage, 70 Brutal and 54 Frenzy. So the score you'll get from the last enemy of the level is...

54(0.4(50)) + 70(0.25(50)) + 102(0.1(50)) + 50 = 2515 points for a single enemy.

But what if you didn't get hit those 17 times?

71(0.4(50)) + 87(0.25(50)) +119(0.1(50)) + 50 = 3152.5 points for that last baddie.

Again, I know the numbers I arbitrarily chose aren't right, but I'm just trying to give examples of how I observed the scoring metric to work. Hope this sheds some light on your question.

DaveWilma07
02-26-2006, 10:48 AM
You've explained the scoring system really well there PaleGringo. That should help a lot of people out with any questions, and deserves to be top of its own topic.

*Thumbs up

Minty
02-26-2006, 11:24 AM
yeah nice work dude ;D

Alive741
02-26-2006, 02:46 PM
That was a big help, but what about the two scores...the top and bottom scores, I understand that the bottom one is like the current score...however how do I get that bottom score to the top...I'm trying the water temple for instance--That bottom score stays at the bottom even when I leave the 1st spawn and go back into the main underwater area. Does it matter what area the score is on. Also when do the multipliers kick in.

Do they kick in as you're getting points, or just at the very end of the level?

PaleGringo
02-26-2006, 09:13 PM
That was a big help, but what about the two scores...the top and bottom scores, I understand that the bottom one is like the current score...however how do I get that bottom score to the top...I'm trying the water temple for instance--That bottom score stays at the bottom even when I leave the 1st spawn and go back into the main underwater area.  Does it matter what area the score is on.  Also when do the multipliers kick in. 

Do they kick in as you're getting points, or just at the very end of the level?


Well, two in a row is a bit of a stretch for me, but let's see if I can do it.

First a question... are you using the mirror in the Chamber of Living Portraits or are you just playing through the levels first time? I'll go ahead and assume that you're using the mirror.

Your bottom, "current score" WILL NOT be added to the top score there until the completion of the scoring phase of the level. Why? Because it's essentially a simulation. If you die, you're back in front of the mirror. This is one of the many reasons Thorn's Pass can be so frustrating... one wrong jump and you don't just lose your multiplier, you have to start over. No in-level checkpoints. If you complete the level, it gets added to your top total score. This is actually more helpful, since you'll be able to figure out how you're stacking up against that "A-line" as I call it.

Multipliers actually kick in as you're battling. Imagine in the Water Temple, for a moment. A small fire troll is worth... say "s = 100" when you kill them with Deep Blue. But every time you hit them with a water blast, you get a fraction of that 100 points in addition to the 100 when they're destroyed. So really, the S value for a fire troll, depending on how fast you kill it, could be anywhere from 100-175, really.

Add to that the same metric as your battling (ever notice how you get points for jab combos with Pummel Weed?) . So the "s" above is just for taking out one foe. How you take them out also gives you score and bonuses, as determined by your multipliers.

Remember too that if "s = 50" for a normal troll, you'd get 50-55 for your first troll, maybe 75-100 for your second, and 100-125 for your third (without getting hit to keep your multiplier, obviously). So at the end of three trolls with multipliers, you could have 225-275 points, where you'd only have about 150 points if you kept getting hit.

Alive741
02-26-2006, 09:53 PM
I'm using the mirror, however at times I absolutely have a top and bottom score...For instance when I did Thorns Airship earlier I had 110,000,000ish up top and another like 40 million below. I don't think it really matters though...I've been playing with it and it hasn't seemed to affect anything I do..

I haven't tried Thorns Pass for that reason, I remember playing solo and falling into the lava like 800 times lol. I'm actually dreading that one :(

doadea
02-27-2006, 05:01 PM
Why do people use the mirror? You can go to these levels by selecting score attack from the main game menu.....

firewx
03-05-2006, 04:51 PM
Yeah, I was wondering that as well...

DaveWilma07
03-05-2006, 05:29 PM
Well... I didnt realise you could get the grades by playing through via the score attack screen. Of course now I do, and it is much easier then going all the way to the mirror ;)

k_dog
03-05-2006, 05:31 PM
Ah, nice. I will be trying this in the next few days!

-Brian

xI Shorty Ix
03-08-2006, 08:22 PM
ive just got to do the water temple now..... anyone got any tips 4 me

DaveWilma07
03-08-2006, 10:09 PM
Yeah, check out the topic called 'How To: Get 100 million points on Water Temple (http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1773) ' :)

invincible rob
03-28-2006, 10:03 AM
im ranked 38 in the water temple leaderboards not bad for a second try
the first one being the one which you just rush and get the game done

da1hoslappa
03-28-2006, 03:47 PM
im ranked 38 in the water temple leaderboards not bad for a second try
the first one being the one which you just rush and get the game done

I wonder what you will get on your third? :woop:

invincible rob
03-29-2006, 05:37 PM
i doubt ill try i reckon i got lucky
really lucky