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Knightmare OO7
07-11-2009, 03:29 PM
I use the checklist system on this website A TON. Honestly, it's my primary usage of this website (granted, the forums are great). However, with the new policy of DLC achievements not appearing in one's list in order to preserve completion % on Xbox.com, I suggest a similar method here. Someway to disable/enable additional DLC achievement lists. If this is too much work, that's fine, but it would be a nice addition to the already awesome checklist system.

Cam888
07-11-2009, 04:02 PM
That sounds like a good idea. I'd support it

kaleido42
07-11-2009, 09:58 PM
If I remember correctly, feel free to correct me, they have something planned towards dlc achievements on the site here, I think so that you can tell which are dlc and which are original or something like that. I don't imagine them actually adding the ability to remove them from the list though. Seems like a lot of extra work for something that wouldn't have that major of an effect. I guess we'll find out once a "higher up" comes across this.

The Pants Party
07-12-2009, 12:16 PM
Not sure what you're talking about. Xbox.com includes DLC achievements on all their lists, regardless of if you own the content. Everyone's Gears 2 is at 1750 and the content isn't even available yet. In keeping with that system, DLC is a part of the game even if you have it or not and will be included in our percentages as well.

However, like the above poster said, we are working on something that will distinguish the DLC for you so you know which achievements you can get out of the box and which require DLC content.

Knightmare OO7
07-12-2009, 06:51 PM
Not sure what you're talking about. Xbox.com includes DLC achievements on all their lists, regardless of if you own the content. Everyone's Gears 2 is at 1750 and the content isn't even available yet. In keeping with that system, DLC is a part of the game even if you have it or not and will be included in our percentages as well.

However, like the above poster said, we are working on something that will distinguish the DLC for you so you know which achievements you can get out of the box and which require DLC content.

You are correct, I mistakenly said Xbox.com. However, if you check your achievements on your 360, the list does not include DLC achievements if you do not have the content, assuming said content is relatively new.

kaleido42
07-12-2009, 07:09 PM
You are correct, I mistakenly said Xbox.com. However, if you check your achievements on your 360, the list does not include DLC achievements if you do not have the content, assuming said content is relatively new.

I thought it shows up on the 360 once release day hits:confused:.

jamieCR7
07-12-2009, 07:14 PM
I thought it shows up on the 360 once release day hits:confused:.
Games seem to be inconsistent, sometimes it shows up on release and sometimes it doesn't. For FIFA 09, it stills says sometimes that i have 53/48 achievements?

The Pants Party
07-12-2009, 08:58 PM
Regardless, the achievements become a part of the list even if it sometimes does or doesn't show up on one site or another or the dashboard or wherever else. It won't be separated away or factored out on our site.

Khalid
07-13-2009, 12:52 AM
You are correct, I mistakenly said Xbox.com. However, if you check your achievements on your 360, the list does not include DLC achievements if you do not have the content, assuming said content is relatively new.

Is it not because the game is not patch that it does not show up?

Wee Benny 2k7
07-13-2009, 03:46 PM
It could have a tick box for when you do My360Achievements.
Example: Halo 3. You would have to check the box titled Mythic Map Pack for you to;
a) Enable to check the achievements you have on that DLC.
b) Alter your achievement progress

Just an idea. :)

Knightmare OO7
07-13-2009, 05:31 PM
It could have a tick box for when you do My360Achievements.
Example: Halo 3. You would have to check the box titled Mythic Map Pack for you to;
a) Enable to check the achievements you have on that DLC.
b) Alter your achievement progress

Just an idea. :)

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

The Pants Party
07-13-2009, 05:50 PM
I know what you mean, but you're just trying to artificially increase your completion percentage when it shouldn't be done that way. If we have the content or not, those achievements are an official part of the list, whether we like it or not. They need to be included in the percentages.

There may be an option in the future to hide them like we have with secret achievements and completed achievements that are checked off so you at least don't have to see them, but they won't ever be taken out of our percentage calculations.

Wee Benny 2k7
07-13-2009, 08:27 PM
I know what you mean, but you're just trying to artificially increase your completion percentage when it shouldn't be done that way. If we have the content or not, those achievements are an official part of the list, whether we like it or not. They need to be included in the percentages.

There may be an option in the future to hide them like we have with secret achievements and completed achievements that are checked off so you at least don't have to see them, but they won't ever be taken out of our percentage calculations.

Better than nothing. Seems okay, I suppose. I guess time will tell if it's useful or not. Cheers Alan for the update.

Knightmare OO7
07-14-2009, 01:20 AM
I know what you mean, but you're just trying to artificially increase your completion percentage when it shouldn't be done that way. If we have the content or not, those achievements are an official part of the list, whether we like it or not. They need to be included in the percentages.

There may be an option in the future to hide them like we have with secret achievements and completed achievements that are checked off so you at least don't have to see them, but they won't ever be taken out of our percentage calculations.

:( sounds good anyway

AbmaOnline
07-20-2009, 01:27 PM
I know what you mean, but you're just trying to artificially increase your completion percentage when it shouldn't be done that way. If we have the content or not, those achievements are an official part of the list, whether we like it or not. They need to be included in the percentages.

There may be an option in the future to hide them like we have with secret achievements and completed achievements that are checked off so you at least don't have to see them, but they won't ever be taken out of our percentage calculations.

First of all I really like your website: great guides and a no-nonsense way to register your achievements, without waiting for updates from MS. The DLC problem has probably been discussed before, but there are some remarks I would like to make.

Just as some of the users on this forum, I am mainly concerned about DLC you have to buy. A lot of it is just crappy, overpriced or only boring multiplayer content. So not only do the developers disappoint us with this miserable DLC itself, as a bonus they also mess up the completion ratio everybody has been working so hard for... ;)

Besides this, I think including all DLC because it is in the 'official' MS lists is a weak argument:


we visit these third party sites, since MS apparently has no clue what information gamers want to see (so why copy it);
MS has other interests then gamers, all they want is sell as much DLC as possible, while we as gamers only want to know our completion ratio for the stuff we actually own;
everybody has to understand it, so MS uses one number for everyone, but when you register at this site and manually enter your achievements, you are probably able to grasp the concept of different total gamescores based on DLC. :p

You have to buy DLC seperatly, so it is not part of the game you bought in the store. You can not obtain the DLC achievements if you don't own this additional content. So if you include stuff people don't own, why not calculate the completion ratio based on all available games for the xbox360 platform? Since the fact that you do not actually own them, seems to be no problem? (People who would like this, should probably pay a visit to 360voice.com (http://www.360voice.com), since they also love this stuff)

Maybe the next poll could be about this subject? Just to see how other users think about it? But in the end it is your website, so you should do what seems best to you.

Oh and about the 'to artificially increase your completion percentage', you do know that people have to enter the games and achievements they own manually on your website, allowing much easier ways to increase their percentage? ;)

Finally: users who are interested in their completion ratio without content they do not actually own, trueachievements.com (http://www.trueachievements.com) is one of the few sites that allows you to show your ratio this way.

Lympathia
07-20-2009, 01:34 PM
I agree. If it's part of the game than it should be included in the price of the original purchase.

To pay more, should result in a separate completion. The Pants Party's argument is rediculous. Why not include all the other games which we didn't purchase because they are available?

jackanape
07-20-2009, 03:23 PM
First of all I really like your website: great guides and a no-nonsense way to register your achievements, without waiting for updates from MS. The DLC problem has probably been discussed before, but there are some remarks I would like to make.

Just as some of the users on this forum, I am mainly concerned about DLC you have to buy. A lot of it is just crappy, overpriced or only boring multiplayer content. So not only do the developers disappoint us with this miserable DLC itself, as a bonus they also mess up the completion ratio everybody has been working so hard for... ;)

Besides this, I think including all DLC because it is in the 'official' MS lists is a weak argument:


we visit these third party sites, since MS apparently has no clue what information gamers want to see (so why copy it);
MS has other interests then gamers, all they want is sell as much DLC as possible, while we as gamers only want to know our completion ratio for the stuff we actually own;
everybody has to understand it, so MS uses one number for everyone, but when you register at this site and manually enter your achievements, you are probably able to grasp the concept of different total gamescores based on DLC. :p
You have to buy DLC seperatly, so it is not part of the game you bought in the store. You can not obtain the DLC achievements if you don't own this additional content. So if you include stuff people don't own, why not calculate the completion ratio based on all available games for the xbox360 platform? Since the fact that you do not actually own them, seems to be no problem? (People who would like this, should probably pay a visit to 360voice.com (http://www.360voice.com), since they also love this stuff)

Maybe the next poll could be about this subject? Just to see how other users think about it? But in the end it is your website, so you should do what seems best to you.

Oh and about the 'to artificially increase your completion percentage', you do know that people have to enter the games and achievements they own manually on your website, allowing much easier ways to increase their percentage? ;)

Finally: users who are interested in their completion ratio without content they do not actually own, trueachievements.com (http://www.trueachievements.com) is one of the few sites that allows you to show your ratio this way.

Your entire argument negated by the fact you chose to advertise another site. Seriously why come on here just to try and advertise somewhere else? Might I also add that said site has only recently given people the choice of not inluding DLC - as back when it was first launched it lumped in DLC whether you liked it or not.

Your argument falls flat on one point: that being that you want to ignore the MS way (which includes all DLC on your profile whether you have it or not) and choose a way which suits yourself. As you have pointed out there are very few sites that do not include DLC and the reason for this is that DLC, like it or not, is a part of the game now.

What you are basically saying is that you PERSONALLY do not want to include DLC so that is the way it should be regardless of what MS thinks. So you are happy to cherry pick a website that suits your wishes. Which means that, on said website, your completion percentage is artifically higher than it would be on other sites. So all you are doing is choosing one set of statistics over a bunch of others, where is the sense in that? As you can brag about having 100% completion on one site but it wouldn't be 100% on another, so who is right?

I do agree that DLC is getting out of hand but you can't just decide on a system that suits yourself because the offical line doesn't make you happy.

P.S Saying you should include all other 360 games 'because it is the same as DLC you don't own' is just petty. You know that it is completely different. If you choose to play a game, even one with DLC, then you have willingly added that game to your card. No one else to blame but yourself. If DLC is added after you've finished that game - tough. I have to live with it so why shouldn't everyone else? I plan on getting 90% completion on all sites (DLC or not) and as DLC is here to stay I just have to live with the pain of extra points cropping up on games I thought were 100%.

The Pants Party
07-20-2009, 05:12 PM
the Pants Party's argument is rediculous. Why not include all the other games which we didn't purchase because they are available?

Because you didn't play those games. I'm sure it sounded more clever before you typed it, but that's a silly comparison to try and make.

We may be an independent website and are clearly not forced to do things the way MS does, but this is the way we've chosen to do it, based on one simple fact: the achievements are a part of the game's achievement list whether you have the DLC or not. The only way to know what the OFFICIAL achievement list for a game is, is through xbox.com - and we like to keep things official, so here we are. If they say you have 1000/1750 in Gears of War 2, that's what you have. You can't just find another place that will tell you, "oh no, don't worry about all that, you really have 1000/1000!" to make yourself feel better and give you a better percentage.

Trust me, as a completionist, I would personally love to do it the other way, but I know it's just a cheap way to artifically increase my percentage and not truly how things should be done.

Fizzmatix
07-20-2009, 08:32 PM
Like pants has said they are the full official list, the basic 1000 isn't even really a fully completed game anymore seeing as most games get some sort of add on with achievements.

If you look at all the dlc and other additions to games you may as well say 1750 is the full final 100% for some games now, just because it ships with 1000 doesn't mean thats the fully official amount of points and achievements the developers and Microsoft have or had planned for the games.

All I see is if you have an issue with fully owning all the achievements for a game don't bother going after them in the first place. I like to get all my achievements as it gives me something extra to do, like mini goals and such but i don't care about the score or leaderboards just to enjoy the game.

Pheonix_Assassin
07-21-2009, 03:20 PM
Sounds possible =)

The Pants Party
07-21-2009, 05:34 PM
Sounds possible =)

What? Did you even read this thread...?

Dr Merk
07-21-2009, 06:08 PM
If there are 50 questions on an exam, with 25 "extra credit" questions inculded, are the 75 questions total a view of 100%? No, they're not. The initial 100% is still based on the original 50 questions, these additional question's add to ones overall percentage, allowing for one to exceed 100%.

Now if somebody buys a game with 50 initial achievements, and 25 more come out, are the 75 achievements a total view of 100%? I say no, you don't simply cram the content into a 100% frame. The formula should allow for these expansions upon one’s total percentage. You talk about the "tough road", and "doing things right" but refuse to allow percentages higher than 100 to be calculated? Are the larger numbers to difficult; or do you think they're going to skew the data, because I can assure you they're neither difficult to calculate, nor will they skew data.

Some people exceed 100%, some people fall below it. What this current system does is penalize those who exceed 100%, and penalize those who meet the requirements. You’re in fact helping those who fall under expectations, like it or not.

What your current system does is pigeon hold people into purchasing downloadable content in order to maintain a percentage. Downloadable content, is EXTRA content or “Extra Credit” parse, so why not allow for it to expand the percentage?

Just some food for thought...

The Pants Party
07-21-2009, 06:34 PM
Now that's how you do an analogy! :)

I see what you're saying, but you can't have more than 100% gamerscore. You can't have more points on your card than are possible to get on your card. This isn't a teacher being nice and trying to help you out. Microsoft is the teacher and they're telling us there is no such thing as extra credit. They're saying, "Congrats on your A+ -- too bad I've added more questions and if you don't answer those as well, you're getting a B."

Again, I wish it weren't so, but Microsoft's the boss, teacher, parent, etc. etc. However you want to swing it, they're calling the shots and we're just keeping things in accordance here.

Dr Merk
07-21-2009, 07:13 PM
Yeah you're right.

Since everybody else was putting forward a bad argument, I tried to at least give you a decent one.

It is annoying to go through my games and see 1000 on a game (Such as Prince of Persia) and realize it's not 100%. Some games are just not worthy of DLC, and some DLC is just worthy to be had. (IMO Resident Evils DLC was one of the biggest rip-off's I've come across).

For me, a self-proclaimed completionist, little things like this kill me; and I'm sure it does for others as well.

rsxdelerium
07-30-2009, 08:05 PM
I didn't read every single post and I know this is a somewhat dead thread .. but I would love the option of turning off or hiding dlc lists *in the checklist menu. I choose to hide my 100% completed games so it's easy to see what I'm not finished with. The annoying part is when a game comes out with DLC that I have no intention of buying and then it's unhidden for all eternity. I could care less about whatever arguements are going on about completion .. it's just for the convenience of not scrolling through games you "finished", yet aren't "completed".

kaleido42
07-30-2009, 11:45 PM
I didn't read every single post and I know this is a somewhat dead thread .. but I would love the option of turning off or hiding dlc lists *in the checklist menu. I choose to hide my 100% completed games so it's easy to see what I'm not finished with. The annoying part is when a game comes out with DLC that I have no intention of buying and then it's unhidden for all eternity. I could care less about whatever arguements are going on about completion .. it's just for the convenience of not scrolling through games you "finished", yet aren't "completed".

Quite agreed, to an extent. What I think would really be quite helpful (been wanting it for a while, never bothered mentioning it) would be an option to manually make games become hidden. So many applications including but not limited to dlc (if you choose not to buy it), games with glitched achievements (no way, without lying, to make them disappear), games you will never beat (whoever thinks I'm going to beat wave 100 in Robotron is crazy), etc.