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APassingShadow
12-21-2009, 07:33 AM
So out of 700+ reviews on Amazon FF13 is only getting a 3 star review. :mad: I've been waiting years for this game and it looks great, and it's going to be the 1st blockbuster RPG for the 360. So what are your thoughts?? Also I can't read Japanese so maybe these guys are just haters or had their expectations too high? I hope this isn't accurate.

Link below

http://www.amazon.co.jp/product-reviews/B000FNQXEO/ref=dp_db_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

Panda
12-21-2009, 12:06 PM
Well to be honest, if you're considering missing out on this because of reviews then I feel sorry for you.

I know I've loved every single Final Fantasy so far and I know I will love this one. I'm not ever gonna let a review sway me :).

brooks2000
12-21-2009, 12:33 PM
I agree, you shouldnt judge wether your going to get it based on these reviews. you dont know who is reviewing them for a start.

But i will still be getting this game no matter what the review square will not let us down, besides lots of people seemed to dislike ff12 but i loved it.

APassingShadow
12-21-2009, 05:49 PM
I will be buying this game regardless of reviews becuase I love FFs (I also thought FF12 was weak). I used a shitty translator and the common concensus is that it is like an interactive movie and basically a straight forward path. All I'm saying is that if they gave us the shitty FF and made FF13: Versus the bad ass game we've been waiting for I will be dissapointed.

Cypher_Cobra
12-21-2009, 07:17 PM
I never listen to reviewers they're all so biased that I might throw up all over my monitor for some of their sick comments.

I'll tell you why FF13 won't suck. It's because Sony hasn't had a big bang game since MGS4, and The Square has never made a mainline game for the Three-Six before. With so much riding on The Square's shoulders they have no choice but to make a game that will compete for the GOTY award.

rabies
12-21-2009, 08:39 PM
I think you will find that jrpgs just are not as popular as they were here in the states, and the review scores probably reflect that. There are a lot of people who are just tired of the JRPG formula..and feel that the devs simply are not doing anything new, just regurgitating the same game over and over. If you are a huge jrpg nut, then by all means get the game as you will probably certainly enjoy it.

Will it be the greatest game next year? Probably not. Will it be the best final fantasy ever? *shrug*. I doubt it though.


I'll tell you why FF13 won't suck. It's because Sony hasn't had a big bang game since MGS4, and The Square has never made a mainline game for the Three-Six before. With so much riding on The Square's shoulders they have no choice but to make a game that will compete for the GOTY award.

THIS, however, is just plain 100% faulty reasoning. This makes it sound like a dev team can drum up a GOTY game anytime they NEED to. I got news for you, they try EVERY TIME they make a new FF game.

In my opinion, the series is just waning. I personally cannot get as excited anymore as I did years ago. I will certainly get this and play it, but I am not expecting much more than what I got with 12...which was ok. If it is better, then I will be surprised.

Cypher_Cobra
12-23-2009, 12:12 PM
THIS, however, is just plain 100% faulty reasoning. This makes it sound like a dev team can drum up a GOTY game anytime they NEED to. I got news for you, they try EVERY TIME they make a new FF game.


Don't be naive. Of course they can create a GOTY game whenever they need to, the executives provide the funding. If a company needs to produce a blockbuster they put more funding into the project, don't tell me you actually think the devs have a say in it? The management decides the ambitions of the game, and that would be the executive board and the chief developer. I think they call that...business around these parts.

FF is one of the most beloved games in the east, there's no sign of "slowing". They are the leader of the RPG genre, and only a few companies compete against them realistically. In Japan the only games which rival FF in terms of units sold and popularity is Dynasty Warriors(surprising huh?) and Mario.

Habitso
12-23-2009, 12:15 PM
The first confirmed review, by the Japanese magazine Famitsu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famitsu), gave Final Fantasy XIII a score of 39/40.

the japanese public never get anything right

rabies
12-24-2009, 03:33 PM
Don't be naive. Of course they can create a GOTY game whenever they need to, the executives provide the funding. If a company needs to produce a blockbuster they put more funding into the project, don't tell me you actually think the devs have a say in it? The management decides the ambitions of the game, and that would be the executive board and the chief developer. I think they call that...business around these parts.

FF is one of the most beloved games in the east, there's no sign of "slowing". They are the leader of the RPG genre, and only a few companies compete against them realistically. In Japan the only games which rival FF in terms of units sold and popularity is Dynasty Warriors(surprising huh?) and Mario.

Perhaps your definition of Game of the Year and mine are different. My GOTY means that it will win all the accolades and rewards at the end of the year.

We shall see at the end of the year then shall we? No matter how much square wants this to be a huge success, and dumps all the money they have into it, that certainly does not gaurantee GOTY. A game of the year does not just appear because somebody threw tons of money at a project. If your line of thinking was the way it worked, then MW2 or GTA4 should have won GOTY this year because the most money were threw at those..but guess what? They didn't even make most of the GOTY lists much less win. Hell, in the case of GTA4, many, many fans thought it was crap and worse than their previous outing....and I know much more money was thrown at 4 than it was at San Andreas. Meanwhile a small developer with much less money made the list numerous times (Batman).

Yes, mgmt or money restraints are a huge part of business and determines the scale and scope of a project, but that has only some bearing on the end result. A group of talented people with a great vision with a limited budget can and HAS created some fantastic games that blow big budget games out of the water.

Plus, lets not forget that no matter how much money and talent one company can dump into a project, there are a half a dozen other devs/publishers doing the same thing to compete. FF13 is not the only big budget game to release next year. I'll grant you FF13 might win JRPG of the year next year, but I highly doubt they will win overall. Has a final fantasy game except 7, maybe even 10 made topped any GOTY lists in the US?

Cypher_Cobra
12-24-2009, 09:20 PM
Perhaps your definition of Game of the Year and mine are different. My GOTY means that it will win all the accolades and rewards at the end of the year.

Now that is more reasonable. I agree you can't possibly win all of the accolades because the reviewers will always have differing views, but the point I was making is that The Square is going to pump a lot more cash into this project because it's their first game on the next gen console.

They've always done this in the past, take FF7 and FF10. Both the first on their console and both viewed as the best of the FF series by the public which is too precise to be coincidence in the business world. FF13 will likely be the same, they've got to establish their dominance as the leader of the RPG genre so that people will buy other games The Square makes that aren't necessarily FF(like Nier).

You're right money isn't the only factor, the vision and ambition of the chief developer is another big factor. But The Square knows they've got a visionary chief, otherwise they'd be reluctant to send heavy cash. Just look at FF's graphics, that's money talking, the graphics on their cinematics are surreal. But the story and mechanics, that's the will of the chief.

We'll deffinitely see, but I just don't see this project not getting at least 1 GOTY award from any mag or review site. It's just so massive, in fact if it doesn't get at least one major GOTY award I might be liable to call the west haters of the east.

enderflame
12-25-2009, 01:51 AM
Most of the comments are all bashing the leveling system, no one is really talking about the gameplay. There are also a few that don't like that they fully heal after every battle. If you really want to know what they are saying just copy and paste the url into google translate.

samjustsam
12-25-2009, 07:43 AM
if XIII is anything like XII i wont be getting it. XII was kinda like the revenge of the sith movie to me. no matter how much i wanted to like it and how hard i tried...i just couldnt sit there and watch/play it. it sucked that bad. somethings are just bad ideas...like FF XII and the star wars prequels. i would like to pretend that both never happened.

Cypher_Cobra
12-27-2009, 09:27 PM
if XIII is anything like XII i wont be getting it. XII was kinda like the revenge of the sith movie to me. no matter how much i wanted to like it and how hard i tried...i just couldnt sit there and watch/play it. it sucked that bad. somethings are just bad ideas...like FF XII and the star wars prequels. i would like to pretend that both never happened.

What was so bad about 12? I've played almost every FF and that one is my favorite, was there anything in particular you didn't like about it? Or is there something in a different FF that you did like that 12 didn't have?

TheOnlyDogMan
12-28-2009, 11:49 AM
I think you will find that jrpgs just are not as popular as they were here in the states, and the review scores probably reflect that.

I think that's probably dead on. With the exception of the FMV the JRPG genre hasn't really progressed much since the SNES days. This turned it from a staple of the RPG genre, to non-mainstream genre, to a genre that only existing hardcore fans appreciate.
The gameplay hasn't evolved enough and people just aren't interested in sitting through mid-90's gameplay for mind-blowing graphics and a story told in cut-scenes separated by 40 minutes of junk fights.

I know personally Final Fantasy (and I guess JRPGs) died about midway through Final Fantasy VIII. I enjoyed the game, and was enjoying the story, but something clicked in my mind and I realised I was hitting 'Attack', 'Attack', 'Attack' on every random encounter. 99.999% of battles were only in the game as padding for the story.
I think what triggered it was the fact that now the games were 3D, fully animated and out to make every encounter look pretty, so random encounters lasted like a minute and a half even if you were killing them with one shot. Most of the game was waiting for the animations to end so I could continue doing what ever I was doing. After that realisation I just couldn't get into a story enough to make it through a Final Fantasy game.


[I'm not trying to bash Final Fantasy. If you're looking forward to it I sincerely hope you enjoy it. I just felt I could give some insight into why Final Fantasy XIII might not be doing super great in the mainstream.]

Kirye
12-31-2009, 02:02 AM
Sad thing is, for a game like Final Fantasy I have to rely on Japanese GOTYs to know how it went. Let's be honest, Western reviewers are WAY biased, bashing every little thing they can think of. They call JRPGs redundant and yet consider the transition between Modern Warfare 1 to 2 revolutionary? Bullshit. If anything, I can see Mass Effect 2 winning RPG of the year.. And it's not to say Mass Effect is bad, because it's not. I love Mass Effect, I just think that game reviewers should set the awards apart to WRPGs and JRPGs of the Year. It's obvious that they're two completely different genres now in everyone's mind.

I'm hopeful for FF13, very very hopeful. I've enjoyed the FF games since the first one, and have kept up with them ever since. I know I won't be seeing it in the GOTY, even if they were to remake FF7 and make it twice as epic as it was when it first released it won't appear on the GOTY awards anymore. Reviewers have moved on to redundant games like Halo and CoD.

The only thing I agree on are the voice actors are sometimes bad.. But they're acceptable. I didn't mind the voices in 10 or 12 too much, so I can only hope the ones in 13 are acceptable as well.

FaTaL EFX
01-01-2010, 05:36 PM
I never listen to reviewers they're all so biased that I might throw up all over my monitor for some of their sick comments.

I'll tell you why FF13 won't suck. It's because Sony hasn't had a big bang game since MGS4, and The Square has never made a mainline game for the Three-Six before. With so much riding on The Square's shoulders they have no choice but to make a game that will compete for the GOTY award.

Ugh, the typical "all reviewers are biased" comment. How on earth are they biased? As much as I like JRPG's you have to admit the gameplay hasn't changed at all since the Playstation days - you also seem to assume Square can just magically create a GOTY, in fact you second the statment here:


Don't be naive. Of course they can create a GOTY game whenever they need to, the executives provide the funding. If a company needs to produce a blockbuster they put more funding into the project, don't tell me you actually think the devs have a say in it? The management decides the ambitions of the game, and that would be the executive board and the chief developer. I think they call that...business around these parts.

So money makes a good game now does it - just because the board are ambitious doesn't mean the game will be well recieved - as is seemingly the case with this game. Of course, it'll get a free pass from the bigger named gaming sites - the name Final Fantasy will guarentee it a gushing review, but GOTY - I doubt it. In fact you claim later that GOTY is not that which revieces accolades - so just what is your definition of GOTY then? Your own personal GOTY?



FF is one of the most beloved games in the east, there's no sign of "slowing". They are the leader of the RPG genre, and only a few companies compete against them realistically. In Japan the only games which rival FF in terms of units sold and popularity is Dynasty Warriors(surprising huh?) and Mario.Because the Japanese seem to fear change...it's interesting how people claim Japan is somehow still the centre of the gaming world when the majority still buy the three biggest stagnated series around, all of which have been thoroughly milked, and with good reason. They are the leader of the RPG genre because they used to make good games. Competing in terms of sales, and competing in terms of quality are completely different ideas - and the fact you seem to think sales = quality product makes me think you're the naive person within this conversation...

A game called 50 Cent : Bulletproof on the PS2 and Xbox sold over 1 million copies...go look at the game and let me know if you think it sold due to its quality...

(Somewhere you also imply this is Square-Enix's first next-gen game - it's not; The Last Remnant was released last year to poor reviews.)

Sad thing is, for a game like Final Fantasy I have to rely on Japanese GOTYs to know how it went. Let's be honest, Western reviewers are WAY biased, bashing every little thing they can think of. They call JRPGs redundant and yet consider the transition between Modern Warfare 1 to 2 revolutionary? Bullshit. If anything, I can see Mass Effect 2 winning RPG of the year.. And it's not to say Mass Effect is bad, because it's not. I love Mass Effect, I just think that game reviewers should set the awards apart to WRPGs and JRPGs of the Year. It's obvious that they're two completely different genres now in everyone's mind.

Because these sorts of games have issues...most of the time I agree with JRPG reviews - face it, in the West JRPG fans are a minority, a niche - only people who are willing to put up with the flaws pointed out in the reviews will enjoy the games most of the time. As for the changes from MW1 to 2...as much as I dislike the game, there are clearly plenty of them - mainly to do with the single player and the attempted scope of it.

As for the JRPG of the year award, there aren't that many that make it over to the West, and the ones that do just aren't good enough most of the time (Star Ocean 4 as an example) - in 2009, on the PS3 and Xbox 360 there were about 3 JRPG's I would have said could have seriously competed for an award like that...

I'm hopeful for FF13, very very hopeful. I've enjoyed the FF games since the first one, and have kept up with them ever since. I know I won't be seeing it in the GOTY, even if they were to remake FF7 and make it twice as epic as it was when it first released it won't appear on the GOTY awards anymore. Reviewers have moved on to redundant games like Halo and CoD.


Because no re-make, especially when it's not handled by the original creator, is usually good - especially a remake of a decade old game that by today's standards is nothing particularly special...

Tapion
01-01-2010, 06:43 PM
I checked the site, and tried the google translate as the one poster mentioned, out of curiosity. Really don't care though, getting the game either way.

guillermo316
01-02-2010, 05:51 AM
final fantasy best game ver period, its over people all over the world just made final fantasy games the world would be cured of problems

Cypher_Cobra
01-03-2010, 02:08 AM
Ugh, the typical "all reviewers are biased" comment. How on earth are they biased? As much as I like JRPG's you have to admit the gameplay hasn't changed at all since the Playstation days - you also seem to assume Square can just magically create a GOTY, in fact you second the statment here:

You can't even make a point without gutting your own self.

Of course reviewers are biased, they're humans, they come to every game with the verdict already decided. If you don't understand that then you just don't understand people yet. All humans are biased, even you, even me. In a matter of fact you even said it yourself that because of FF's name it's going to recieve "gushing" reviews! Just because of it's name? Is that not biased? Are you not destroying your own point right in front of everyone's very eyes?


So money makes a good game now does it - just because the board are ambitious doesn't mean the game will be well recieved - as is seemingly the case with this game. Of course, it'll get a free pass from the bigger named gaming sites - the name Final Fantasy will guarentee it a gushing review, but GOTY - I doubt it. In fact you claim later that GOTY is not that which revieces accolades - so just what is your definition of GOTY then? Your own personal GOTY?

Confidence borne of ignorance.

If you don't think money is what powers these games then you just don't understand business. It's all about money to start with, the whole point of the game is to turn a profit, if you don't turn profit then your game is pointless. The only way to make a game is to put MONEY into it and the more MONEY you put into it the more ambitious the project can be. Make no mistake, the developers can't do shit without proper funding. Money makes games, games make money, it's a little process we call "business." So how do you make a game? Put money into it. How do you make a really good game? Put a really good load of money into it. You get what you pay for.

About the GOTY. Are you sure you even read what I said? Or did you just read it the way you wanted to? I clearly said that you don't have to win EVERY award to be GOTY, of course you're going to win some, it comes with being GOTY. What I DID say however is that it's not possible to win every single award, everyone knows that. It goes back to what I said earlier, that everyone is biased.


Because the Japanese seem to fear change...it's interesting how people claim Japan is somehow still the centre of the gaming world when the majority still buy the three biggest stagnated series around, all of which have been thoroughly milked, and with good reason. They are the leader of the RPG genre because they used to make good games. Competing in terms of sales, and competing in terms of quality are completely different ideas - and the fact you seem to think sales = quality product makes me think you're the naive person within this conversation...

A game called 50 Cent : Bulletproof on the PS2 and Xbox sold over 1 million copies...go look at the game and let me know if you think it sold due to its quality...


You demonstrate excellent ability in rewriting what people say to match your needs, I might call that being biased.

I never said anything about what sales does and does not equal to. I said that to make a big game, you gotta put in big money. Big money games require big money investments and will yield big money returns. 50 Cent: Bullet Proof is an entirely different strategy! It's targeting a niche in the consumers, very successfully I might add. So you understand completely: Sales DOES NOT have to equal quality and I never said they did. What I did say once again however, is to create a BIG time game that can win the GOTY, you will have to invest a BIG amount of money and it will in turn give you BIG profit returns. Sales does not equal quality, though quality CAN equal sales. What sales DOES equal is success, and that is the point of a video game period. And that my poorly informed friend is business.

So please, if you're going to retort at least use the truth. Distorting what people say only makes you look more biased than you already are.

FaTaL EFX
01-03-2010, 11:56 AM
You can't even make a point without gutting your own self.

Of course reviewers are biased, they're humans, they come to every game with the verdict already decided. If you don't understand that then you just don't understand people yet. All humans are biased, even you, even me. In a matter of fact you even said it yourself that because of FF's name it's going to recieve "gushing" reviews! Just because of it's name? Is that not biased? Are you not destroying your own point right in front of everyone's very eyes?

Ugh, it's kinda ironic how you claim I "spin things to meet my own needs" (or something like that) but then you go and do the same thing in you're entire argument!

I was of course referring to the negative spin you put on "biased" reviewers - effectively claiming that all Western reviewers are biased against Japanese games - I shouldn't have to spell that out...





Confidence borne of ignorance.

If you don't think money is what powers these games then you just don't understand business.

How do you make a really good game? Put a really good load of money into it. You get what you pay for.

And you really don't understand Game Development...games are not just "good" because they get a lot of money thrown at them; sure the money may grant them access to more tools and employees to make the game, but that won't necessarily make a GOTY - if it were that easy FIFA would have won GOTY every time...you're naivitity is such to the point of laughable...

Since you seem to go on about sales I'll point out thar : They have to meet a particular market...in fact, to be sucsessful the game has to have good advertising - advertising is the near sole factor behind a games sucsess, not money - a good indicator would be films. Disney made a film called "Treasure Planet" - they pumped millions into it but it did terribly due to a poor advertising campagin...

About the GOTY. Are you sure you even read what I said? Or did you just read it the way you wanted to? I clearly said that you don't have to win EVERY award to be GOTY, of course you're going to win some, it comes with being GOTY. What I DID say however is that it's not possible to win every single award, everyone knows that. It goes back to what I said earlier, that everyone is biased.

Or that everyone has an opinion...besides from the looks of things the only awards this game is going to win are most linear and best graphics... (you also did not say half of what you claim you did above)

I might call that being biased.

A bit like "Sqaure can make a GOTY whenever they want"? If that was the case we'd have about 10 or so companies all making games you'd claim were GOTY - there can only be one...

What I did say once again however, is to create a BIG time game that can win the GOTY, you will have to invest a BIG amount of money and it will in turn give you BIG profit returns. Sales does not equal quality, though quality CAN equal sales. What sales DOES equal is success, and that is the point of a video game period. And that my poorly informed friend is business.

So please, if you're going to retort at least use the truth. Distorting what people say only makes you look more biased than you already are.

Ugh, a slimy, and laughable last comment. First of all you seem to just magically forget everything you typed above and change your tune, secondarily you do exactly what you keep claiming I am doing, and thirdly - you're wrong.

By your definition (Having to win some awards, selling well, getting praise) Braid was considered one of the GOTY in 2008 - that one example (and there are lots of them) just shows your whole theorey is based upon something you made up....

Cypher_Cobra
01-03-2010, 03:16 PM
Ugh, it's kinda ironic how you claim I "spin things to meet my own needs" (or something like that) but then you go and do the same thing in you're entire argument!

I was of course referring to the negative spin you put on "biased" reviewers - effectively claiming that all Western reviewers are biased against Japanese games - I shouldn't have to spell that out...

Ahh of course now that you see you're wrong you shift the blame and change your stance. Then you make it out as if that was really what you had meant in the begining, maybe I should have been born psychic to understand your unwritten positions.

Since you have reading problems I'll straighten things out for you. What I said was that ALL reviewers were biased, you just inserted that I was refering to western reviewers. Personally I'm surprised you can even write back after what you said about "gushing" reviews.


And you really don't understand Game Development...games are not just "good" because they get a lot of money thrown at them; sure the money may grant them access to more tools and employees to make the game, but that won't necessarily make a GOTY - if it were that easy FIFA would have won GOTY every time...you're naivitity is such to the point of laughable...

You miss your mark, maybe you don't read closely enough.

The entire basis of my money points has been that FF is making a big money game to compete for GOTY. FIFA, 50 Cent, none of these have anything to do with my argument. They are both games that target a consumer niche, when they were developed I'm willing to wager not a single developer had realistic thoughts of winning a GOTY award. Your points are so irrelevant, it's like shooting spitballs at a battleship.


Since you seem to go on about sales I'll point out thar : They have to meet a particular market...in fact, to be sucsessful the game has to have good advertising - advertising is the near sole factor behind a games sucsess, not money - a good indicator would be films. Disney made a film called "Treasure Planet" - they pumped millions into it but it did terribly due to a poor advertising campagin...


I really had to shake my head after reading this.

Did you ever stop to wonder how advertising is done? Maybe they...conjure it with magic and have faeries deliver it to us? Or...maybe it requires I don't know...money? Or did you think minutes on a TV commercial were free? Designing CG trailers must be free as well. I better write a letter to the Square and let them know they've been wasting money on their CG trailers when they could be praying to the CG god to deliver it to us all for free. Advertising is POWERED by MONEY.


Or that everyone has an opinion...besides from the looks of things the only awards this game is going to win are most linear and best graphics... (you also did not say half of what you claim you did above)

Have you even played FF13 considering it's only out in JP? If not then I think every single person here could easily accuse you of being just like the biased reviewers who have a verdict before they even touch the game. And really, what do you think "opinions" are? They certainly aren't fact, that's what makes them opinions.


A bit like "Sqaure can make a GOTY whenever they want"? If that was the case we'd have about 10 or so companies all making games you'd claim were GOTY - there can only be one...

The Square doesn't win GOTY in the west, but they always compete. Once again the entire basis of my big money points is that they're making a game that will run in the GOTY award, until you recognize that you don't have any points. And further more there are several GOTY awards, every major magazine has their own GOTY award. That's how MGS4, Fallout 3, Mario Galaxy and GTA4 all won in the same year.


Ugh, a slimy, and laughable last comment. First of all you seem to just magically forget everything you typed above and change your tune, secondarily you do exactly what you keep claiming I am doing, and thirdly - you're wrong.

By your definition (Having to win some awards, selling well, getting praise) Braid was considered one of the GOTY in 2008 - that one example (and there are lots of them) just shows your whole theorey is based upon something you made up....

No, to put it simply. While you take everything I say out of context and then change your stance when you were wrong or too vague. I simply clear up what my entire point was which you miss.

The entire point from the begining of my entry in this thread is that FF will use a big money move to compete in the GOTY. No where did I ever state that it was the only way to win GOTY(which you took the liberty to assume), but before you go and say I change my stances I will enforce that it is the primary way to win.

Braid is a decent example but it is too much of a special case that in the end still only won major arcade awards. Did Braid do well? Yes. What does it prove? It proves there are exceptions to the rules, and that occassionally a big bang comes out of a small box. But this doesn't help you at all, all it proves is that you can throw rocks but not hit anything. Braid makes no impact on what I said.

Maybe I should quote all of the things I actually said about FF13 just so you can't murder what I said anymore.

I'll tell you why FF13 won't suck. It's because Sony hasn't had a big bang game since MGS4, and The Square has never made a mainline game for the Three-Six before. With so much riding on The Square's shoulders they have no choice but to make a game that will compete for the GOTY award.


Don't be naive. Of course they can create a GOTY game whenever they need to, the executives provide the funding. If a company needs to produce a blockbuster they put more funding into the project, don't tell me you actually think the devs have a say in it? The management decides the ambitions of the game, and that would be the executive board and the chief developer. I think they call that...business around these parts.



Now that is more reasonable. I agree you can't possibly win all of the accolades because the reviewers will always have differing views, but the point I was making is that The Square is going to pump a lot more cash into this project because it's their first game on the next gen console.

They've always done this in the past, take FF7 and FF10. Both the first on their console and both viewed as the best of the FF series by the public which is too precise to be coincidence in the business world. FF13 will likely be the same, they've got to establish their dominance as the leader of the RPG genre so that people will buy other games The Square makes that aren't necessarily FF(like Nier).


Now everyone can see for themself and read that your points make no sense. You have yet to even target a point at what I have been talking about.

Keep them "points" coming though, I can't wait to see what you say next.

FaTaL EFX
01-03-2010, 04:34 PM
Ahh of course now that you see you're wrong you shift the blame and change your stance. Then you make it out as if that was really what you had meant in the begining, maybe I should have been born psychic to understand your unwritten positions.

Since you have reading problems I'll straighten things out for you. What I said was that ALL reviewers were biased, you just inserted that I was refering to western reviewers. Personally I'm surprised you can even write back after what you said about "gushing" reviews.

Ugh, this is getting boring - first of all, yes I should have explained my points better - as should have you (because really all you've done is change your stance on everything by posting incredibly vauge ideas - such asyour opinion of the GOTY, that you then changed the definition off twice...)



You miss your mark, maybe you don't read closely enough.

The entire basis of my money points has been that FF is making a big money game to compete for GOTY. FIFA, 50 Cent, none of these have anything to do with my argument. They are both games that target a consumer niche, when they were developed I'm willing to wager not a single developer had realistic thoughts of winning a GOTY award. Your points are so irrelevant, it's like shooting spitballs at a battleship.So Square-Enix aren't targeting a niche? Really? They're game is somehow different from all the other JRPG'S that it's competing on it's own merit through innovation? Or is it competing through the name Final Fantasy as I stated originally?

In fact, your bullshitting here too, your entire point has been "if you throw a lot of money at a development team you'll get a GOTY". Once again you try to change your points...Now it's a case of "I'm strictly talking about FF".




I really had to shake my head after reading this.

Did you ever stop to wonder how advertising is done? Maybe they...conjure it with magic and have faeries deliver it to us? Or...maybe it requires I don't know...money? Or did you think minutes on a TV commercial were free? Designing CG trailers must be free as well. I better write a letter to the Square and let them know they've been wasting money on their CG trailers when they could be praying to the CG god to deliver it to us all for free. Advertising is POWERED by MONEY.And that's not what you said originally, you mentioned the development team being given money - the publisher would handle the advertising...again though, you change your point to suit you...



Have you even played FF13 considering it's only out in JP? If not then I think every single person here could easily accuse you of being just like the biased reviewers who have a verdict before they even touch the game. And really, what do you think "opinions" are? They certainly aren't fact, that's what makes them opinions.They are, however, based around the game in question - your poorly resoned view effectivly claimed people have a set in stone view on a game before they play it...



The Square doesn't win GOTY in the west, but they always compete. Once again the entire basis of my big money points is that they're making a game that will run in the GOTY award, until you recognize that you don't have any points. And further more there are several GOTY awards, every major magazine has their own GOTY award. That's how MGS4, Fallout 3, Mario Galaxy and GTA4 all won in the same year.Ugh, enough with "The Square", it makes you sound like a tween trying to be "hip". No it's not - your point is "you can make a big money game out of large amounts of money regardless". It's also intresting how all of a sudden you agree with the poster above that GOTY awards are awards from gaming publications - because weren't you arguing against that before? Yet another example of a change in your argument...



No, to put it simply. While you take everything I say out of context and then change your stance when you were wrong or too vague. I simply clear up what my entire point was which you miss.In other words, you change your stance in the next post under the disguise that I 2took everything out of context"...hardly...

The entire point from the begining of my entry in this thread is that FF will use a big money move to compete in the GOTY. No where did I ever state that it was the only way to win GOTY(which you took the liberty to assume), but before you go and say I change my stances I will enforce that it is the primary way to win.I don't recall saying it was the only way to win GOTY - you seem to have made that bit up, although it would suit you, you are however wrong about money being the only massive factor in games development...your initial point, and one you keep trying to change.


Now everyone can see for themself and read that your points make no sense. You have yet to even target a point at what I have been talking about.Besides those that you keep making up throughout this pathetic argument?

Keep them "points" coming though, I can't wait to see what you say next.It'll be intresting to see how many times you change your "opinion" when it suits you...

Cypher_Cobra
01-03-2010, 09:33 PM
I'm going to compact our discussion so it doesn't take up so much space.

Qualifications?: Good we're making progress, yes you should have explained that better but be that as it may. I don't see what's so vague about what I had said. I said that The Square is making a big money game to compete in the GOTY. When asked if I thought a game had to win every accolade I said that you don't need to win every accolade and that furthermore it is not possible. Is big money the only way to win? You could argue yes in a business perspective but in a literal perspective no is the correct answer. My stance hasn't changed on this.

Marketing Niches: I was expecting this response, in fact I was preparing my response to it at lunch while I was at Panera Bread. 50 Cent targets people into black culture, FIFA targets people into soccer, those are specific marketing niches that no one else besides those groups are going to play(yes this is a generalization). FF13 targets several markets: the RPG genre, the Japanese niche, the sci-fi genre, FF niche, and several others. A game that targets multiple markets and niches is nothing like FIFA, or NFL, or 50 Cent, movie games, and the many other polarizing titles out there that only appeal to a single group of consumers. So my stance has never changed, bringing up FIFA and 50 Cent isn't relevant to my points so why would it change my stance?

Advertising: Come on now, you can't actually pretend to make a point on this after I reversed your advertising issue on you like that. It all comes from the top like I had said, money sets everything in motion and the execs decide the amount of ambition, and the ambition is money. The advertising subject wasn't the focus of my discussion earlier so it wasn't included, the fact remains the same though that every aspect of it relates to the top which is money.

Biased reviewers: You tell me you can't see that reviewers walk into these games already with their minds made up? When Halo 3 came out, do you think any XB mag is going to rate the game down? When the New Super Mario Bros Wii came out Famitsu automatically rated the game up, while Edge automatically rated the game down. Why? Because of preconcieved biases. This goes beyond video games, it's just how humans are as a total species.

The Square and GOTY: I can call "The Square" whatever I want. You don't even make a damn bit of sense here. What I said is that reviewers are biased and that I don't like them or listen to them, and that games with big funding can compete in the GOTY award. Because of that you can make a GOTY game by pumping cash, it is very simple. I never suddenly agreed with anything, in fact I never even mentioned in my discussion anything about awards and who gives them other than that the reviewers are biased and a game can't win all the awards.

Big Money and GOTY: No you didn't directly say it was the only path, and if you knew this why even bother to bring up Braid as if it were an example to suggest the above? Or was or is this just a good time to jump ship into a new stance now that your Braid point didn't work? Or was it simply redundant?

My stance and thoughts on these have remained constant since I entered this thread. You on the other hand have not only provided fewer points against my logical arguments, but ALSO you make more attacks against my logical arguments with fewer points of your own to back them up.

Just judging by your decreasing logic and increased flailing attacks I already can tell I am not only right but have won this exchange. But you are very tenacious and I respect a man or a woman who defends their beliefs. But if you still think there's fight in you I'm already ready for another response.

So, it is your turn now.

Vincentdante
01-04-2010, 09:35 AM
it's going to be the 1st blockbuster RPG for the 360.

What does that make the other blockbuster RPG's? :p (Blue Dragon & Lost Odyssey <3)

Oh and to that argument above me about how money makes the GOTY? One word Daikatana. Lot's of money sure as hell didn't save that game.

IMO if your aiming for GOTY then a good budget is essential, but a great development team is equally essential. GTA4 is evidence of that.

This is just IMO but just to put my point across...

what do you get when you have a good development team and no money you get braid (great game but no contender to the mainstream).

What do you get if you have alot of money and a bad development team you get what Sega has become.

APassingShadow
01-04-2010, 10:25 AM
What does that make the other blockbuster RPG's? :p (Blue Dragon & Lost Odyssey <3)

Oh and to that argument above me about how money makes the GOTY? One word Daikatana. Lot's of money sure as hell didn't save that game.

IMO if your aiming for GOTY then a good budget is essential, but a great development team is equally essential. GTA4 is evidence of that.

This is just IMO but just to put my point across...

what do you get when you have a good development team and no money you get braid (great game but no contender to the mainstream).

What do you get if you have alot of money and a bad development team you get what Sega has become.

1st and foremost no one can just pull a GOTY out their ass otherwise there would not be so many crap games.

I don't think you can consider Blue Dragon a blockbuster RPG considering the only reason it got so much publicity is that it was the first JRPG for the 360 and the 360 had been out for 2 years by the time it came out.

Lost Odyssey (which I think is the best JRPG for 360) got its publicity because "Lost Odyssey was produced by Hironobu Sakaguchi (http://www.xbox360achievements.org/wiki/Hironobu_Sakaguchi), the creator of the famed Final Fantasy (http://www.xbox360achievements.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy) series. This is his third project outside of Square Enix (http://www.xbox360achievements.org/wiki/Square_Enix)". This was suppose to be the first JRPG which he made that was suppose to be like a Final Fantasy. These games were both made by Mistwalker and people were hoping that he would be able to emulate the success of Square and the FF series.

I however consider blockbuster something the equivalent of James Cameron's Avatar (the movie). Something mainstream with name recognition. Something like MW2, Fable 2, GTA4 or Halo 3.

This game looks beautiful and I am sure it will not dissapoint. I found an entire japanese playthrough and it looks amazing. However I do see where people were talking about it being like an interactive movie.

Check it out if you want since its in japanese at least you can't understand what they are saying
http://www.youtube.com/user/FFHDTV#p/u/92/f95dEtmGAmg

APassingShadow
01-04-2010, 10:28 AM
I however consider blockbuster something the equivalent of James Cameron's Avatar (the movie). Something mainstream with name recognition. Something like MW2, Fable 2, GTA4 or Halo 3.

OOoops I just nubbed myself 1st JRPG

TheOnlyDogMan
01-04-2010, 03:41 PM
Biased reviewers: You tell me you can't see that reviewers walk into these games already with their minds made up? When Halo 3 came out, do you think any XB mag is going to rate the game down? When the New Super Mario Bros Wii came out Famitsu automatically rated the game up, while Edge automatically rated the game down. Why? Because of preconcieved biases. This goes beyond video games, it's just how humans are as a total species.

Its a big jump to go from people who are paid to like something (or at least benefit from giving a good review) to people carrying personal grudges against genres. Especially with a game reviewers are expected to praise like a Final Fantasy entry. If what you're saying is correct then Halo 3 reviews are a sham, but it has no real impact on Final Fantasy XIII reviews.
They don't benefit from lying for the sake of lying. What do they get by convincing their readers Final Fantasy XIII isn't for them?

If the game isn't doing anything for them what do you expect them to write? You claim they're bias but you're the one asking them to lie.

Cypher_Cobra
01-04-2010, 04:10 PM
Its a big jump to go from people who are paid to like something

None of the reviewers lie just because they find it amusing. They will stretch the truth if it benefits them and their company, positive reviews increase sales so an XB mag will always boost the rating of an XB game to the highest they can manage without seeming too rediculous. Some games do deserve their ratings, but it never would have mattered because they'd have recieved those high ratings even if they didn't deserve them in many cases. XB affiliates will always rate XB games higher than other raters, PS3 affiliates will always rate PS3 games higher, and Wii affiliates will always rate Wii games higher. Are there exceptions to the rules? Sure. Other people rate games in a biased way from different motivations, some people are video game elitists and if you're not a mega block busting 10/10 GOTY quality game then you're not even worth playing.

This goes beyond games though. The entire world is like this, talk shows, news reporters, cartoons and sitcoms. They are filled with biases and hidden messages. So the fact that reviewers are biased is just 1 facet of the entire fact that humanity is biased. Yes of course there are people with straighter lined judgement but I would say they are deffinitely the minority and that no one is free of bias. It is just our human nature.

Vincentdante
01-04-2010, 07:21 PM
1st and foremost no one can just pull a GOTY out their ass otherwise there would not be so many crap games.

That goes without saying. In fact that is a summary of what I said :)

I don't think you can consider Blue Dragon a blockbuster RPG considering the only reason it got so much publicity is that it was the first JRPG for the 360 and the 360 had been out for 2 years by the time it came out.

Lost Odyssey (which I think is the best JRPG for 360) got its publicity because "Lost Odyssey was produced by Hironobu Sakaguchi (http://www.xbox360achievements.org/wiki/Hironobu_Sakaguchi), the creator of the famed Final Fantasy (http://www.xbox360achievements.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy) series. This is his third project outside of Square Enix (http://www.xbox360achievements.org/wiki/Square_Enix)". This was suppose to be the first JRPG which he made that was suppose to be like a Final Fantasy. These games were both made by Mistwalker and people were hoping that he would be able to emulate the success of Square and the FF series.

I however consider blockbuster something the equivalent of James Cameron's Avatar (the movie). Something mainstream with name recognition. Something like MW2, Fable 2, GTA4 or Halo 3.

This game looks beautiful and I am sure it will not dissapoint. I found an entire japanese playthrough and it looks amazing. However I do see where people were talking about it being like an interactive movie.

Check it out if you want since its in japanese at least you can't understand what they are saying
http://www.youtube.com/user/FFHDTV#p/u/92/f95dEtmGAmgFair enough if thats what you believe then fine I wasn't having a go, I just really liked blue dragon and lost odyssey lol.

Oh yeah, I need to ask since I don't want to watch the youtube vid (must avoid spoilers at all costs) but could you elaborate on what you mean by "I do see where people were talking about it being like an interactive movie." I hope it's not like FF12 were it play's itself ; ; (I liked FF12 don't get me wrong, but the gambit system was a bad idea imo).

Cypher_Cobra
01-04-2010, 11:02 PM
(I liked FF12 don't get me wrong, but the gambit system was a bad idea imo).

What was wrong with the gambit system? I thought it was one of the best freshest ideas that had came to the series. Eliminated the entire need to mash commands. In fact it was probably one of the main things I always preach to my friends about FF making their combat more strategic.

Shad0wTroop3r
01-04-2010, 11:23 PM
I <3 Tales of Vesperia:blurp

Vincentdante
01-05-2010, 12:57 AM
What was wrong with the gambit system? I thought it was one of the best freshest ideas that had came to the series. Eliminated the entire need to mash commands. In fact it was probably one of the main things I always preach to my friends about FF making their combat more strategic.

I can see why people like it since it adds a layer of strategy to the game as you have pointed out. I just don't like the idea of it essentially stealing control of the characters from me. With the way the game was structured it was an essential decision I know, but maybe they could have structured it differently?

I'm just a guy who likes to button mash ;) I might go back to FF12 sometime and look at the system a different way. Maybe I can enjoy it more, but honestly my first impressions were bitter. Rest of the game was great though bar the story which felt rushed I thought.

APassingShadow
01-05-2010, 03:08 AM
Oh yeah, I need to ask since I don't want to watch the youtube vid (must avoid spoilers at all costs) but could you elaborate on what you mean by "I do see where people were talking about it being like an interactive movie." I hope it's not like FF12 were it play's itself ; ; (I liked FF12 don't get me wrong, but the gambit system was a bad idea imo).

Yea I tried not to watch it too much because I didn't want spoilers either (luckily I don't speak Japanese so it was like watching an in-depth trailer). It is labeled FF13 pt. 1 all the way to 100 something. So I was watching like part 20 part 25 part 30 just bits cause I didnt want to spoil it either but every part I watched was a cut scene then a fight. So I was like there is no way that's possible so I went to like part 50 or 60 or something and they were running around an open world which looked sooo sweet! It still looks awesome, actually blows Lost Odysseys graphics out the water :eek: Just seems like it might get off to a slow start. I'm still excited and can't wait for this game!

Edit: Makes Lost Odyssey look like Blue Dragon! I hope that the graphics look just as good on the 360 as they do on the PS3

Vincentdante
01-05-2010, 03:12 AM
I have seen trailers of the overworld and I agree it looks lush. Skyscraper sized monsters roaming around and everything. First thing I'm gonna do is try and pick a fight with the massive ones lol.

Cypher_Cobra
01-05-2010, 03:25 PM
I'm just a guy who likes to button mash ;) I might go back to FF12 sometime and look at the system a different way. Maybe I can enjoy it more, but honestly my first impressions were bitter. Rest of the game was great though bar the story which felt rushed I thought.

Not the answer I was expecting. That is a good reason though, if you do like to choose the abilities manually then the gambit system wouldn't be very appealing.

You could try wait time instead of active since you can choose all the abilities manually, but you'll run into a new problem. Some of the harder battles last 20-30 minutes while some of the epic battles last 5 hours. That amounts to hundreds and sometimes thousands of command inputs, it gets pretty tedious to input the same commands so many times. In the older FFs it didn't make any difference since the boss battles didn't last nearly as long.

DarkTharen
01-05-2010, 03:33 PM
Those reviews were also done by the Japanese. They see a lot of different and amazing RPG's. So compared to what is available to them it might not be that good. Just a thought.

Purge
01-05-2010, 03:41 PM
I expect all games to be utterly terrible, you get more than you bargained for.

McKaystyles
01-05-2010, 03:45 PM
This game , I have heard, is a huge disappointment, by FF standardsÖ. Now lets assume this is true ( which is prob isnít) then a huge disappointment by FF standards is still a massivly awesome game because thatís like saying ď this platinum ring isnít as shinny and buffed as that platinum ringĒ hey! Its better than that sucka with the copper ring ( im looking at you damnation!)

DarkTharen
01-05-2010, 03:45 PM
I expect all games to be utterly terrible, you get more than you bargained for.

Good point! I like it!

Vincentdante
01-05-2010, 06:44 PM
Not the answer I was expecting. That is a good reason though, if you do like to choose the abilities manually then the gambit system wouldn't be very appealing.

You could try wait time instead of active since you can choose all the abilities manually, but you'll run into a new problem. Some of the harder battles last 20-30 minutes while some of the epic battles last 5 hours. That amounts to hundreds and sometimes thousands of command inputs, it gets pretty tedious to input the same commands so many times. In the older FFs it didn't make any difference since the boss battles didn't last nearly as long.

I tried playing it that way and it was as you said. I think I was looking at the system the wrong way. Maybe if I go into FF12 looking for a strategy RPG instead of a traditional one I may enjoy it better, more so since I haven't played it for a few years anyway.

However with FF13 in a few months a replay of any RPG will have to wait ;) (I'm also the kind of guy who spends/wastes 100+ hours exploring every nook and cranny of the world lol).

Insanity_!84
01-06-2010, 11:00 AM
Im sure the game will be good no matter what. But GOTY i doubt. Honestly how many times have u seen an RPG take that award.

it may make the short list but my thought is it will be beaten out by GOW3 or if an RPG then ME2.

As far as review, arnt amazon reviews made by consumers? never trust mass consumer reviews they can be altered by bitter ppl or ppl that didnt know what they were buying. Kinda like those ppl that come into gamestop and get made because halo wars want an fps....i trust more professional reviews but still dont let it make the desion for me.

rabies
01-06-2010, 01:22 PM
This game , I have heard, is a huge disappointment, by FF standardsÖ. Now lets assume this is true ( which is prob isnít) then a huge disappointment by FF standards is still a massivly awesome game because thatís like saying ď this platinum ring isnít as shinny and buffed as that platinum ringĒ hey! Its better than that sucka with the copper ring ( im looking at you damnation!)


....oh...I dunno about that... I played FF X-2..and was bored to tears about 1/3 of the way through. I FORCED myself to finish (cause I have yet to ever not finisha game I start), but man...I really thought that game was crap. I'm not saying FF13 is that bad, but I wouldn't bet that I will find it 'still massively awesome'.

-Sonic-
01-07-2010, 08:31 PM
What was wrong with the gambit system? I thought it was one of the best freshest ideas that had came to the series. Eliminated the entire need to mash commands. In fact it was probably one of the main things I always preach to my friends about FF making their combat more strategic.

I didn't like the Gambit system, either. It made me way too lazy and unattached from the game.

That aside, I'm not worried about reviews right now. Wait until people that don't suck get there hands on it...like the guys at IGN or OXM. I'm buying it no matter what, but I'm sure the game will fair well when it's actually released. It's way too premature to judge.

APassingShadow
01-12-2010, 09:21 AM
I found a 'preview' on GameTrailers, there are very minor spoilers but it is worth watching because it sums up what everyone has been saying

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/import-preview-final-fantasy/60558

Vendetta
01-12-2010, 03:37 PM
I didn't like the Gambit system, either. It made me way too lazy and unattached from the game.

That aside, I'm not worried about reviews right now. Wait until people that don't suck get there hands on it...like the guys at IGN or OXM. I'm buying it no matter what, but I'm sure the game will fair well when it's actually released. It's way too premature to judge.

Don't worry about there being a gambit system in XIII. There is a gambit LIKE system but it is very simple. You put them in heal, attack, support, etc.. mode. :woop:

BTroxell
01-20-2010, 05:10 AM
Reviews should be utilized as fact checking, with a little bit of opinion thrown in. Like how the game feels and works. I never ever regard their rating in my purchase decision unless the game is truly utterly terrible.