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Lord of Rage
12-22-2009, 06:17 PM
I've just started playing Saboteur and I'm loving it so far. It clearly looks as a Pandemic game (including all the bad stuff) but its very nice to play.

By the way, Do I need any map for this game? In the stats I can see lots of stuff to collect/destroy...

Nlkuysdf
12-22-2009, 06:35 PM
No maps, well just the ones you buy from the black market dealers. These will show you where all the collectables are.

Game is awesome, agree with that.

Lord of Rage
12-22-2009, 07:03 PM
No maps, well just the ones you buy from the black market dealers. These will show you where all the collectables are.


Oh god. I always LOVE in-game maps with all the collectibles.

Nlkuysdf
12-22-2009, 08:41 PM
Oh god. I always LOVE in-game maps with all the collectibles.

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but the in game mini-map is actually very helpful.

Lord of Rage
12-22-2009, 10:24 PM
I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but the in game mini-map is actually very helpful.

I'm not. I find them very useful. I wish I had this in Assasins Creed. Finding everything there was a nightmare.

PS: I just got my first map. :drunk

$RebelG
12-23-2009, 01:27 AM
I'm not. I find them very useful. I wish I had this in Assasins Creed. Finding everything there was a nightmare.

PS: I just got my first map. :drunk

Are you talking about the first AC? Because in the second one all you had to do to collect the maps for the treasures around the cities is just to visit a local art shop and buy the maps for those local areas.

This game is amazing though - I've only done about 4 or so missions but its great. Love the whole black and white thing until you liberate a place. Although I am still getting to grips with the controls and the map since its a little annoying trying to find Nazi things to blow up which are worth a bit. Also noticed that going behind a Nazi in stealth and trying to kill him by pressing Y or X doesn't always work with me (god knows why)

KNIGHTOFSERA
12-23-2009, 01:33 AM
Are you talking about the first AC? Because in the second one all you had to do to collect the maps for the treasures around the cities is just to visit a local art shop and buy the maps for those local areas.


well having treasure maps weren't that useful when the things you really wanted to find (feathers) weren't on them...

DENAz666
12-23-2009, 01:50 AM
Yeah AC2 nearly nailed it, if they had of included the feathers on the treasure maps then it would have been perfect!

Agree with you though, this game is brilliant.

$RebelG
12-23-2009, 02:04 AM
True they were only really useful when it came to the early stages in game when you were just starting out for the money. But the further you get the less and less you have to worry about money because of the villa. If they did include the feathers it would of been amazing since I kind of got tired of having to look at an online map all of the time.

tehGUN
12-23-2009, 02:10 AM
Indeed, one of my new favorites actually. Got 1k/1k today, so if you have any questions, dont hesitate to ask!

DENAz666
12-23-2009, 02:21 AM
Indeed, one of my new favorites actually. Got 1k/1k today, so if you have any questions, dont hesitate to ask!

Hooray for you :) I got 1000/1000 just last night (although its not showing on my gamercard due to my broken modem). Best feeling ever blowing up that last freeplay target!

Lord of Rage
12-23-2009, 01:10 PM
I hope I finally get the 1000 because the Free Event is gonna take ages...

ridethepiggy
12-23-2009, 01:49 PM
I just got this yesterday and I can't wait to play it. I also got L4D2 so I haven't had a chance to play Saboteur!

Midnight Malice
12-23-2009, 02:00 PM
tip, get Sabotage GOLD before working on freeplay targets.... SOOOOOOO much easier. I went from 30% to 55% in less than an hour.

If you just take them down here and there, sure, but if you are just working on those only, make sure you have that perk.

I agree that this is a fun game, but I don't see myself playing it after I 1000 it (which can be said about a lot of games though), so on that merit, and that one of thier perks is completely broken (super RDX) I give it a 6/10. Oh, and I wish the AI was a bit smarter, "oh, here is a few dead guys and a blown up tank... couldn't have been him, even though he is the only one around here, he is standing way over there... like 10 meters away, smoking a cigarette and laughing, I wonder how this happened... lets go investigate this 6x6 area. Oh wow, another explosion... hey, I think its that guy running... bah, he got too far away, lets just pretend we are looking for something, I'm tired."

Daiphyer.
12-23-2009, 02:01 PM
This game is freaking amazing. Underrated as hell.

Lord of Rage
12-23-2009, 02:43 PM
Oh, and I wish the AI was a bit smarter, "oh, here is a few dead guys and a blown up tank... couldn't have been him, even though he is the only one around here, he is standing way over there... like 10 meters away, smoking a cigarette and laughing, I wonder how this happened... lets go investigate this 6x6 area. Oh wow, another explosion... hey, I think its that guy running... bah, he got too far away, lets just pretend we are looking for something, I'm tired."


Hahahaha that's my thougths exactly...

tehGUN
12-23-2009, 02:50 PM
This would be the first time i use this.
ROFL!

Midnight Malice
12-23-2009, 02:57 PM
This game is freaking amazing. Underrated as hell.

Really? Underrated? I called it fun, amazing it isn't. Graphics are average, the art style is cool, not origonal, but it works well. Randomly jumping cars and explosions, horrific AI, a broken perk (for most people), repetitive diolague and music, freeplay targets are boring as hell after the first 500 or so. Short story, a good one though, I'll give it that. It is a fun 15 hour rental for the average player, 40-50 for the completionist. It has no real replay value, and is not origonal in any way, except maybe for the art style (for a video game), but we all know where that comes from. But it does have one of the coolest all time sound effects in a game, the zepplin blowing up is so awesome. IMHO, an average rating for a game doesn't bear on it's fun factor for most people, I'm sure most people who play it will enjoy it, but as far as technical achievements, this game is laughable. 6/10 as I said, but if I were to go biased for my personal rating, and overlook all the in your face flaws I'd give it an 8 or 8.5.

DarthSoth
12-23-2009, 05:53 PM
I really liked the game to begin with but as I kept playing there were a few things that finally ended up driving me away before completing all 1k achievements. The more I played the game the more the annoying little glitches and inconsistencies in the game really grated on me and this game far surpasses anything else for shear tediousness of collectables. There are well over 1000 of those stupid little white diamonds spots on the map and it is EXTREMELY tedious to complete them all. Add in the sub par climbing system, glitches behind walls, and slightly better than GTA4 control and it added up to more than I could take in the end.

The last couple days of trying to grind them all our was finally the breaking point for me for this game. I finished up with 955 points and abandon the game with the "spend 75000 contraband" "collect 425 country side" and "collect 239 Paris area 3" achievements left unfinished. Had about 50 left in Paris and a LOT left in the countryside. And this is coming from a guy who plugged through all the flags in AC1.

Initially I rather enjoyed the game but the more I played it the more the bad parts of the game I was able to overlook earlier began to really wear on me. Initially I would have given the game bout a 8/10. now that I am 95% finished though... 6.5/10 maybe a 7 if I was feeling uber generous

Daiphyer.
12-23-2009, 09:41 PM
Really? Underrated? I called it fun, amazing it isn't. Graphics are average, the art style is cool, not origonal, but it works well. Randomly jumping cars and explosions, horrific AI, a broken perk (for most people), repetitive diolague and music, freeplay targets are boring as hell after the first 500 or so. Short story, a good one though, I'll give it that. It is a fun 15 hour rental for the average player, 40-50 for the completionist. It has no real replay value, and is not origonal in any way, except maybe for the art style (for a video game), but we all know where that comes from. But it does have one of the coolest all time sound effects in a game, the zepplin blowing up is so awesome. IMHO, an average rating for a game doesn't bear on it's fun factor for most people, I'm sure most people who play it will enjoy it, but as far as technical achievements, this game is laughable. 6/10 as I said, but if I were to go biased for my personal rating, and overlook all the in your face flaws I'd give it an 8 or 8.5.

It was an original game, first of all. What was the last game that was set in Paris(Sandbox)? What was the last game that let you climb any buildings which is set in WWII? What was the last game that was in WWII SANDBOX?
Graphics were decent, and I'd take awesome gameplay over graphics anyday.
And going to gameplay, best aspect of the game.
Fun and satisfying shooting mechanics.
Decent driving mechanics - Looks like nowadays everybody wants realism like GTA IV huh?
Good climbing mechanics - Anything is possible because the climbing is not a set of pre-made obstacles you can jump on too, which makes it realistic. And Sean is no trained assassin, IDK why people are expecting him to climb a building in a flash.
Good Stealth mechanics
and I wish the AI was a bit smarter, "oh, here is a few dead guys and a blown up tank... couldn't have been him, even though he is the only one around here, he is standing way over there... like 10 meters away, smoking a cigarette and laughing, I wonder how this happened... lets go investigate this 6x6 area. Oh wow, another explosion... hey, I think its that guy running... bah, he got too far away, lets just pretend we are looking for something, I'm tired
Have you ever played Batman: AA? You could stand vertically above a guy's head(Just about few inches) and he would not see you. You call that dumb? What would've happened if they realized it was you everytime? = More frustrating game.

R Rated Love
12-23-2009, 10:08 PM
a broken perk (for most people)

A pet peeve of mine. Don't use the word "most", unless "most" people are really being affected. From what I've seen on these boards, it's not even "many", let alone "most".

Midnight Malice
12-24-2009, 01:55 AM
this is in response to Daiphyer, I would have quoted it, but it would have made for a very long post.

You are splitting hairs, just because they moved the location and made it WWII sandbox doesn't mean it is origonal. They cut and pasted about 5 games together and came up with this, I'm sorry, but if you think this is a technical accomplishment, you need to play more games. And I think you are missing the part of my post where I said it is fun and I enjoy it, but I'm not going to lie to myself that it was a well made game. By that I mean, my own taste in games allowed me to have fun with it, overlook the carbon copy of other game mechanics and flaws and still enjoy the title. But would I tell someone it was a GOOD game? NO. I've told everyone that asked that it wasn't very good, from a technical stand point, but it is still fun. There are numerous glitches. Cars randomly jump into the air, Nazi's get stuck in walls and can sound an alarm, but I can't kill them, the climbing mechnic is not that good, everytime I jump for a zipline, I have to worry if he is just going to miss, I'll walk off a ledge slowly, but he won't grab onto the side and fall to his death, Dynamite and RDX gets glitched quite often when trying to plant it on towers, you are standing there shaking back and forth, yeah, that is nice and stealthy.

Yes, I have 1000 on Batman:AA, was one of the first people to do it... it is in my signature, thanks for paying attention. I happened to take a look, and you haven't even beat it on hard. It isn't just the combat that gets tougher, or your health going down faster, enemies have A LOT better awareness. Try it on that difficulty before you mention Batman having bad AI. And to your last sentence, play Splinter Cell. That is good stealth mechanic, not this, this is like baby's first stealth game compared to that on hard.

If you like the game that much, that is fine, I like it to, but I'm not going to go all fanboy because I liked it, it was the same way with Tenchu Z, I enjoyed it, played the hell out of it, 1000'd it, but I know it wasn't a good game, I gave it a 45/100. But now that I mention it, that had better stealth than this.

I don't mean to blast or flame you, if that is the impression you got, I am truely sorry but I just honestly don't see how you can call this good. Liking it, and thinking it is good is 2 totally seperate things to me. There are games I know are very good, but that doesn't mean I like them. ***cough Halo cough*** I guess that is just the mind of a reviewer, sometimes I forget how much it differs from others.


now onto this guy


A pet peeve of mine. Don't use the word "most", unless "most" people are really being affected. From what I've seen on these boards, it's not even "many", let alone "most".

what the hell are you talking about? are you correcting my grammer, or saying that this glitch is affecting only a few people... do you even know the perk I am talking about? Almost everyone I have talked to didn't even notice that it happened, but it had in thier game as well. So from ALL the people I have talked to that has played this, which is about 30 or so, there were 2 or 3 that didn't get the glitch, so yeah, to me, that is most.

DENAz666
12-24-2009, 03:10 AM
^^^ I kind of agree with you, but i kind of disagree too :P

When you say its like 4-5 games cut up and pasted into one... you could say that about a lot of games now days, its hard to find a game that isn't similar to another.

Midnight Malice
12-24-2009, 03:36 AM
^^^ I kind of agree with you, but i kind of disagree too :P

When you say its like 4-5 games cut up and pasted into one... you could say that about a lot of games now days, its hard to find a game that isn't similar to another.

Thats true, but most games try to hide it... this one makes it blatantly obvious. Why did they choose the word PERK? They could have used Abilities or upgrades, there's only 1 other series out there that uses the word perk to describle special abilities, and allows you to level them up after completing certian tasks. They put "view points" at the top of buildings and the camera circles around the area you are at, you get a silent, undetectible instant kill on guards where they stand there for a few seconds, giving you the chance to slip away, you can change your clothes, and are in disguise, but they become wary when you get too close, you can collect cars and store them in your garage for use anytime you want... you said similar... we aren't talking about a cover system, or a roadie run... we are talking about many different aspects of the game. Most games that borrow certian elements from others still has thier own feel. I know I'm not the only one, and this is my opinion, but I don't get that from this game. I'm thinking, Ezio or Altiar could do better, or Agent 47 wouldn't have gotten caught...

I know it sounds like I hate this game... I'm starting to, cause everytime I try and make a quick getaway, he gets stuck in the enviornment just long enough to get spotted, or blown up... but through the story, I did enjoy it, I just don't like doing 15 hours of story, and 30 hours running point to point blowing up random targets. If they wanted to do it that way, they should have at least incorporated the targets into the story in some way, then it wouldn't have felt like such a chore to finish it.

DarthSoth
12-24-2009, 04:09 AM
Midnight Malice, I pretty much agree with everything you said about this game. Everything you mentioned were the same issues I have with the game. And as I said in an earlier post, I enjoyed the game in the beginning, then after playing for quite some time, it was the collection of all the broken elements you mentioned that add up to a slow growing dislike for the game.

I would definitely recommend a rental to anyone but strongly urge against a purchase. The game is Grand Theft Paris. It is a carbon copy of GTA4 in it's driving control, as well as it's movement and gunplay control. It also heavily borrows in terms of vehicle hijacking and collection. And I have to hand it to them, they pretty much nailed it there. Unfortunately I wasn't a huge fan of GTA4, especially it's control system. GTA4's weak story is greatly surpassed by Saboteur though. That was on of the games greatest assets I thought. Although for some reason I wanted to kill Luc pretty much all game and I don't really know why.

Then they also try to duplicate elements of Assassin's Creed but really didn't pull it off, and one of the parts they did duplicated well from AC was the one real crappy part of the game and that was the tedium of collecting all the flags. Only they made it slightly better by having the collection items show up on the map here. The climbing in this game is so broken. The initial "hey this is kind of cool" quickly becomes a lot of "what the fuck here?" It is tedious to climb buildings in this game. Then add in the glitchyness and random falls to your death, missed walk off grabs, missed zip-lines, glitch falls inside buildings.

Frustrating game.

DENAz666
12-24-2009, 05:52 AM
Thats true, but most games try to hide it... this one makes it blatantly obvious. Why did they choose the word PERK? They could have used Abilities or upgrades, there's only 1 other series out there that uses the word perk to describle special abilities, and allows you to level them up after completing certian tasks.

Yeah but on the flip side, how many games use the words abilities or upgrades? But i see what your getting at.

In all honestly I've kind of been wondering if they did it deliberately? I mean the viewpoints are a lot like AC, there is a race car called Altair, scaling buildings much like AC... what do you think?

And yeah, i also got a little annoyed towards the end, the one thing that bugged me was when your just about to escape an alarm and they just seem to spot you from a mile away. That got a bit tedious towards the end

Midnight Malice
12-24-2009, 07:37 AM
a lot of games use those words, which is why it is better, it is the standard... perks fits COD, and so far, to my knowledge has been the only game to use it. Abilities is more generic, and therefore, probably a better word to use. I'm surprised Infinity Ward didn't patent the use of "perks" in video games.


and I'm almost positive they threw the car name in there to acknowledge Assassin's Creed, it is like a band playing a cover song from thier influences. Only it seems more like a ripoff in here than a tribute, and adding the car name was a way to say sorry we blantantly stole your gameplay.

Daiphyer.
12-24-2009, 10:29 AM
@Midnight Malice, Did I say Batman had a bad AI? Batman's AI was impressive as hell. I'm saying, if they'd be able to see you standing vertically like that, it would be frustrating. Same goes for every game, for example: Hitman, Assassin's creed. I didn't beat batman on hard, but I didn't need, to see how harder it gets. I played it on hard, but I didn't finish it. They're two different things.
And talking about originality ... What was the last game you played that was TOTALLY different from every other game? I think that there is absolutely nothing that games haven't done before.
Talking about glitches. Every open-world(AKA HUGE games) have ALOT of glitches. Same goes for Oblivion, Fallout, GTA. Simply because the world is huge, it can take years to nail every glitch out.

jolyrojr
12-24-2009, 11:42 AM
I saw immediately that this game is an amalgamation of several great games, but I like the direction they took it. I agree with whoever said that every game is borrowing from a host of other games. Honestly Midnight's comment that CoD owns the word "perk" makes me sad. It reminds me of hearing kids say that Diablo or World of Warcraft are original. The first use of "perks" I remember are from old school pen and paper role playing games, which is the granddaddy to many video game concepts. I have seen perks used in lots of games, and if I remember, the first fallout games predate CoD. In fact CoD has nothing original at all, even the term "prestige" was borrowed from rpg's (except in rpg's, prestige is actually useful, unlike stupid little medals woooooptidoooo).

In this instance, abilities or upgrades would be less acurate. For one thing, some of the perks are abilites, some are upgrades. Perk is a more generic term, for a bonus, which can include both of the other words. Also, many times a perk differentiates by being unlocked via accomplishments as opposed to buying or selecting. This isn't always the case, but general game theory vocabulary.

From what everyone says about the glitches, so far I have not seen any randomly jumping cars, anyone stuck in a wall, and I have no problems climbing. I have had issues with 1 zip line, but after 15 tries I realized I needed to jump for the line and not just try to hop up without leaving the safety of the ledge. I dont doubt the glitches are there, its nearly impossible to get rid of all glitches in a game of this scope. I just dont look forward to trying for 1000g's knowing its only a matter of time.

I really enjoy this game, but I whole heartedly agree the achievements are nuts, making people go through that much trouble and time doing the same shit over and over is just asking for a sour aftertaste.

Midnight Malice
12-24-2009, 02:04 PM
I wanted to type a long drawn out response to those that quoted my previous posts, but no matter what I say, you guys won't see the game the same way I do. Enjoy it for the 40 hours, then trade it in for $20 in a week, and then maybe you'll understand my point.

The only thing I am going to respond to is this, I never said CoD owned the word "perk" I said I was surprised they didn't try and patent it for game use. I didn't say I relate the word to that game, but many will. And with this game being heavy on the borrowing already... a car called Altair numbered 42 in a game that has very similar climbing mechanics... how many flags were in ACI? hmmm....

Evol Error
12-24-2009, 02:50 PM
Really? Underrated? I called it fun, amazing it isn't. Graphics are average, the art style is cool, not origonal, but it works well. Randomly jumping cars and explosions, horrific AI, a broken perk (for most people), repetitive diolague and music, freeplay targets are boring as hell after the first 500 or so. Short story, a good one though, I'll give it that. It is a fun 15 hour rental for the average player, 40-50 for the completionist. It has no real replay value, and is not origonal in any way, except maybe for the art style (for a video game), but we all know where that comes from. But it does have one of the coolest all time sound effects in a game, the zepplin blowing up is so awesome. IMHO, an average rating for a game doesn't bear on it's fun factor for most people, I'm sure most people who play it will enjoy it, but as far as technical achievements, this game is laughable. 6/10 as I said, but if I were to go biased for my personal rating, and overlook all the in your face flaws I'd give it an 8 or 8.5.

Hmmm and the perfect game is???? yeah.. no game is perfect. but i just bought this game last night and its pretty cool, good concept and yeah its awesome.

Midnight Malice
12-24-2009, 03:23 PM
I stated bad glitches and very nearly gamebreaking problems with the programming, and you say what game is perfect? Man, this is why these kinds of games go gold, cause everyone has this attitude of everything has bugs. True, all games have bugs, but when I see what I have seen in this game, it isn't minor bugs, or small glitches. It is lazy, bad programming from a company that was going under, just trying to get in one last game release.

Since that post, I have seen cars floating in the air, random lights floating, I jumped onto a ledge, the screen went black, and I realized my whole character had gone inside a wall. Thrown grenades coming out of his hand and just landing at his feet..., Super RDX going missing... NPC's jumping in front of my car when I am barely moving and dying from it... How has nobody else seen this stuff? Or are you all so blinded cause you spent hard earned money on the game that you refuse to face the reality that this game has serious issues.

DarthSoth
12-24-2009, 05:57 PM
I stated bad glitches and very nearly gamebreaking problems with the programming, and you say what game is perfect? Man, this is why these kinds of games go gold, cause everyone has this attitude of everything has bugs. True, all games have bugs, but when I see what I have seen in this game, it isn't minor bugs, or small glitches. It is lazy, bad programming from a company that was going under, just trying to get in one last game release.

Since that post, I have seen cars floating in the air, random lights floating, I jumped onto a ledge, the screen went black, and I realized my whole character had gone inside a wall. Thrown grenades coming out of his hand and just landing at his feet..., Super RDX going missing... NPC's jumping in front of my car when I am barely moving and dying from it... How has nobody else seen this stuff? Or are you all so blinded cause you spent hard earned money on the game that you refuse to face the reality that this game has serious issues.

From the sound of most of the replies to you the people that either aren't seeing these glitches or are still able to overlook them are still pretty early on in the game. I've seen a lot of "I just picked this up and I think it's great" posts here. And yes early on these things are very easily overlooked. Once you start going for the well over 1000 postcards, sniper towers, fuel depots, aa guns, generals, etc, these slight background annoyances become front and centre full blown game issues.

I'm sure I'll get a post or two saying how someone has played deep into the game and collected all the crap and still are able to overlook these issues, and in those cases, all the power to you. Glad you can overlook such glaring gameplay issues and still enjoy the experience in the end. I just couldn't. These issues became so prominent that in the end it just overwhelmed the fun I had had with the game and replaced it with frustration and anger.

Barad
12-26-2009, 07:20 PM
Yh this game is so great and fun..the collectables are actually fun as well.

Stealthcake
12-27-2009, 12:05 PM
I really enjoy this game so far, I have not encountered many glitches and I find the game underrated.

I did laugh to myself about the guy who posted before be stating that maybe Infinity Ward have tried to patent the word 'Perk' :p