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View Full Version : M60, 1911, AA to be "rebalanced"


MFCH 37
03-21-2010, 11:52 PM
@Demize99: "Going back to the studio tomorrow to work on Balance tweaks. On the list: M60, M1911, and AA. Up, down, sideways? I won't say..."

(Alan Kertz- Senior Dev on BFBC2)

II M1CK3H II
03-21-2010, 11:54 PM
Whats the "AA"?

Riggy II
03-22-2010, 12:06 AM
Anti Aircraft?

xLUNCHTREYx
03-22-2010, 12:14 AM
Anti Aircraft?

If thats what it is, hallelujah!

Chuppernicus
03-22-2010, 12:31 AM
Hmm. I love the M60, have yet to even shoot the AA, not enough of them on the maps. One that I know of, on Conquest. M1911 is a great handgun too. Interesting.

Judivarious
03-22-2010, 12:44 AM
They should also re-add that thing from BFBC 1 where you could shoot a helicopter with your in hand gun and damage it....

and in my opinion, the WW2 pistol is fine. Perhaps they should fix the thompson and Garand's kill count.

Dz06lt
03-22-2010, 12:49 AM
they need to tone down the shotguns the distance is just bullshit

xD12xSTicKNasTY
03-22-2010, 01:14 AM
I thot everything was fine too. Maybe the AA stands for something that will help out with bringing down the choppers easier. I love the M60, and I don't use the 1911, the revolver has way more power and is much better imo.

Hot Juicy Pie
03-22-2010, 01:25 AM
Hmm. I love the M60, have yet to even shoot the AA, not enough of them on the maps. One that I know of, on Conquest. M1911 is a great handgun too. Interesting. Everyone loves the m60, its a fucking noob weapon, I've been telling people it was going to be nerfed since day one. throw a 4x scope on it and you have a full auto sniper rifle with virtually no kick and kills in 3 shots.

pined5551
03-22-2010, 01:50 AM
Everyone loves the m60, its a fucking noob weapon, I've been telling people it was going to be nerfed since day one. throw a 4x scope on it and you have a full auto sniper rifle with virtually no kick and kills in 3 shots.

It seems to fire 3 at a time too, lol.

RadiantViper
03-22-2010, 01:53 AM
Well I don't use those anyways (PKM and M9 for me ...), never really liked the M60. And yeah, never touched the AA before.

A Satyr
03-22-2010, 01:57 AM
The AA BMD better not get weaker, its the only fucking way to kill the apache on port valdez and if the pilot is worth a damn he can kill the AA in 1 strafe as it is...

Runic Aries
03-22-2010, 01:58 AM
1) M60 was slightly overpowered, good for DICE for noticing this
2) I havn't ever used the AA Gun so I'm not entirely sure
3) I straight up dont care about the M1911 as long as they leave my MP443 Garch alone, I light people up with that thing.

Goolob
03-22-2010, 02:41 AM
Noo dont tweak the m1911 :(

guillermo316
03-22-2010, 02:48 AM
No the game is perfect, just keep giving us DLC. IMO

A Satyr
03-22-2010, 02:58 AM
No the game is perfect, just keep giving us DLC. IMO Agree, changing the balance will piss people off more than anything, the guns are fine

Twrs828
03-22-2010, 04:40 AM
M60 is overpowered.
M19 is overpowered.
AA is underpowered.

IMO.

iCondemned
03-22-2010, 04:43 AM
they need to tone down the shotguns the distance is just bullshit

You must be the one that I'm killing 24/7 with the shotgun. Ha, learn how to dodge a bullet in a game.

XxSimonorixX
03-22-2010, 04:53 AM
You must be the one that I'm killing 24/7 with the shotgun. Ha, learn how to dodge a bullet in a game.

Were you trying to be funny? :-/

I'd have to agree to shotgun range is a bit far but I don't really care about it since I tend to never run into shotgun users.

I'm all in for balancing possibly overpowered weapons. People whine for a week, adapt, and move on with it.

DENAz666
03-22-2010, 04:55 AM
So happy about the M1911, that thing is just stupidly overpowered. I've taken to using it simply for the fact that i'm sick of dying by it.

xLUNCHTREYx
03-22-2010, 05:05 AM
You must be the one that I'm killing 24/7 with the shotgun. Ha, learn how to dodge a bullet in a game.

....what? Dodge a bullet? You gotta be fucking kidding me.

xD12xSTicKNasTY
03-22-2010, 05:35 AM
Everyone loves the m60, its a fucking noob weapon, I've been telling people it was going to be nerfed since day one. throw a 4x scope on it and you have a full auto sniper rifle with virtually no kick and kills in 3 shots.
3 shots?! You must play core, because that thing is a 1 bullet to the head kill in HC, and 2 or 3 to any other body part. It is crazy awesome.

mejimmeh45
03-22-2010, 05:46 AM
i hope they fix the Thompson and Garand stats and the AA need way more power it takes 10 bursts to take down a heli.

DENAz666
03-22-2010, 06:08 AM
....what? Dodge a bullet? You gotta be fucking kidding me.

Jeez everyone knows about the "enter the matrix" button. ;) lol

crunchb3rry
03-22-2010, 07:29 AM
The sad thing is the M60 happens to be my favorite of all those LMGs. The gun itself, not its game stats. I hate feeling like I have to use a different gun just to avoid idiots calling me a "n00b." In the end I don't. I get home from work and play games to relax. If some whineass titbaby feels he needs to message me about how I'm a "pussy" and "need to grow some balls", fuck him.

iBlessing 09
03-22-2010, 07:34 AM
You must be the one that I'm killing 24/7 with the shotgun. Ha, learn how to dodge a bullet in a game.
When you try to learn to use another gun?

AceBD
03-22-2010, 08:31 AM
For us conquest players that need to take down the Apache/MI 28 on Atacama Desert....I say hallelujah! Those AA guns were pretty useless. You could hit a chopper with 6 bursts and it would still seem untouched. Now the people on the ground will have more of a chance.

v SnOwMaN v
03-22-2010, 12:01 PM
If they are talking about the anti air guns then YES please make them better. Seems like it takes forever to drop a damn apache with these guns. Shouldn't be no more than 3 burst from the AA guns to take a chopper out.

The pistol is beast I love it and the M60 I don't use.

LethalEdge
03-22-2010, 12:49 PM
M60 is overpowered.
M19 is overpowered.
AA is underpowered.

IMO.

I concur. The AA gets taken out too easily and quickly by the chopper.

Hot Juicy Pie
03-22-2010, 01:14 PM
3 shots?! You must play core, because that thing is a 1 bullet to the head kill in HC, and 2 or 3 to any other body part. It is crazy awesome. I cannot stand hardcore in this game... You think everyone plays recon in core... omg I played a game of conquest on HC and there was nothing but snipers...

Back on topic, I personally think that this needs to be changed or just a overall rework on how medics gain points. 50-80 points for a revive is ridiculous. IMO a person should only be able to be revived once, maybe twice per life. I mean it's a fucking defibrillator, not the hand of God, you can't mend bullet wounds with it. Secondly, I think point's should be toned down to 20 points for a revive and 30 for a squad revive. Medics are the biggest point whores I've ever seen and they gain enough from medkits as is. This will also be more of a reason not to constantly revive a person in a fire fight who is just going to die again.

xRich UKx
03-22-2010, 01:47 PM
I cannot stand hardcore in this game... You think everyone plays recon in core... omg I played a game of conquest on HC and there was nothing but snipers...

Back on topic, I personally think that this needs to be changed or just a overall rework on how medics gain points. 50-80 points for a revive is ridiculous. IMO a person should only be able to be revived once, maybe twice per life. I mean it's a fucking defibrillator, not the hand of God, you can't mend bullet wounds with it. Secondly, I think point's should be toned down to 20 points for a revive and 30 for a squad revive. Medics are the biggest point whores I've ever seen and they gain enough from medkits as is. This will also be more of a reason not to constantly revive a person in a fire fight who is just going to die again.

I think the complete opposite. The whole reason you get so many points for it is to promote teamwork. The BF guys have been doing this for a while now. . . They know if the teamwork elements of a game get you less points than kills, 99% of the players wont do them.

You seem jelous that medics get more points than you? The job they do helps the team a massive amount. Sure some people do it because they get more points but its not like they are whoring some armour etc and not helping anyone but themselves.

In this game you have no other method of getting your health back apart from a medkit. Now if you start removing points from medics because they get enough anyway then you will end up loosing a massive benefit.

I still can't work out why your so annoyed they get points they do. If you could explain maybe that would help. But it comes across as "I'm well annoyed people who play as a medic get more points than me"

Hot Juicy Pie
03-22-2010, 01:57 PM
I think the complete opposite. The whole reason you get so many points for it is to promote teamwork. The BF guys have been doing this for a while now. . . They know if the teamwork elements of a game get you less points than kills, 99% of the players wont do them.

You seem jelous that medics get more points than you? The job they do helps the team a massive amount. Sure some people do it because they get more points but its not like they are whoring some armour etc and not helping anyone but themselves.

In this game you have no other method of getting your health back apart from a medkit. Now if you start removing points from medics because they get enough anyway then you will end up loosing a massive benefit.

I still can't work out why your so annoyed they get points they do. If you could explain maybe that would help. But it comes across as "I'm well annoyed people who play as a medic get more points than me" It's nothing to do with promoting teamwork. And no, they don't outpoint me, sorry =P It's irritating to see medics just run out and die because they want revive points, reviving people who are trying to kit change or are out of ammo entirely. Not only that, but you can glitch infinite tickets in rush with 2 medics.

Mongolian Beef
03-22-2010, 02:12 PM
:( I'm a M60 noob. (plz don't nerf it LoL)
Don't touch the 1911, it's fine. it's a .45 for god's sake.
AA's not sure about, how else do you drop an apache? even putting a tracer dart is hard enough.

xRich UKx
03-22-2010, 02:52 PM
It's nothing to do with promoting teamwork. And no, they don't outpoint me, sorry =P It's irritating to see medics just run out and die because they want revive points, reviving people who are trying to kit change or are out of ammo entirely. Not only that, but you can glitch infinite tickets in rush with 2 medics.

You seriously think its NOT about promoting teamwork?

What reason do you have for the fact you get more points from reviving someone in your squad than you do from killing an enemy?

If you want to kit change theres a suicide button. Admittedly getting ammo is much harder than getting health but usually theres plenty of kits lying round etc.

The majority of the medic fails are people who've never played BF before and came straight from COD. They would fail at whatever class they tried.

And you can glitch infinite tickets? I've never seen that lol

Hot Juicy Pie
03-22-2010, 02:57 PM
What reason do you have for the fact you get more points from reviving someone in your squad than you do from killing an enemy? Same reason any class gets squad points over normal team assist points, that's not the point I'm trying to make.

If you want to kit change theres a suicide button. Admittedly getting ammo is much harder than getting health but usually theres plenty of kits lying round etc. I shouldn't have to suicide and take another death, a -10 points, and wait to respawn just so you can be a point whore. And even if I do, they often just revive you again, why? For points. Not to mention the nasty glitch that occurs if you're revived in the middle of a kit change.

The majority of the medic fails are people who've never played BF before and came straight from COD. They would fail at whatever class they tried. True nuff...

And you can glitch infinite tickets? I've never seen that lol Yes, if you though C4 UAV was cheap, wait till this one gets around.

Copyright
03-22-2010, 03:12 PM
Awesome, DICE allows you to repair a heli while in flight then they nerf the only weapon, besides the UAV, capable of taking a heli out while it's being repaired?
It's so clear the way the DICE guys play: Shotgun whores, Sniper whores, and Aircraft whores. They overpower each of these because it's what they like to use, no matter if it unbalances the game.

xRich UKx
03-22-2010, 03:17 PM
Same reason any class gets squad points over normal team assist points, that's not the point I'm trying to make.

Ok so what was the thing about earlier when you were saying medics get too many points? A revive gets a ticket back for your team. Taking a ticket away from the other team is worth +50 so doing the opposite should be worth the same no?


I shouldn't have to suicide and take another death, a -10 points, and wait to respawn just so you can be a point whore. And even if I do, they often just revive you again, why? For points. Not to mention the nasty glitch that occurs if you're revived in the middle of a kit change.

Can you be revived if you've chosen to suicide? I honestly didn't think you could. Your willing to take the death anyway so it doesn't really matter. I don't think the 10 points really matters, especially if medics don't outpoint you lol. Unintentional suicides might be more annoying, like last night I was on a quad bike speeding behind a friendly tank which reversed and managed to crush me into a concrete barrier the exact moment I drove behind it causing me to suicide, that I can see the negatives being too much but if you really want to change class I think its worth it. I havn't had the glitch myself but yeah, the game is a tad broken lol.



Yes, if you though C4 UAV was cheap, wait till this one gets around.

I've not had this one done to me either! Maybe I'm just lucky, I always play in a squad etc lol. If we see a uav up we take the guy out piloting it, usually solving all problems.

Though the best (most fun) games we have are when we find another squad on the enemy team who is as good as us! I remember one particular session of about 8 -10 rounds of conquest where we were fighting a squad from Norway with each round being decided by ~5 tickets max!

Its usually just a whitewash though, one good squad can wipe out an entire enemy team, especially in rush.

Hot Juicy Pie
03-22-2010, 03:20 PM
Awesome, DICE allows you to repair a heli while in flight then they nerf the only weapon, besides the UAV, capable of taking a heli out while it's being repaired?
It's so clear the way the DICE guys play: Shotgun whores, Sniper whores, and Aircraft whores. They overpower each of these because it's what they like to use, no matter if it unbalances the game. Ummm okay, first of all I'm pretty sure the AA is being buffed because it is shit awful as is at doing anything.

Secondly, there are plenty of other ways to take down a helicopter.

Third, Helicopters can only be repaired sparingly and only if you move your cursor around to find the "sweet spot" while moving, it's more of a pain in the ass than it's worth. Helicopters can only get a sustained heal when they hover and are at level altitude if they want to stay airborne, which leaves them vulnerable to a barrage of enemy fire. Otherwise they must land if they want to repair.

Hot Juicy Pie
03-22-2010, 03:27 PM
Can you be revived if you've chosen to suicide? I honestly didn't think you could. Your willing to take the death anyway so it doesn't really matter. I don't think the 10 points really matters, especially if medics don't outpoint you lol. Unintentional suicides might be more annoying, like last night I was on a quad bike speeding behind a friendly tank which reversed and managed to crush me into a concrete barrier the exact moment I drove behind it causing me to suicide, that I can see the negatives being too much but if you really want to change class I think its worth it. I havn't had the glitch myself but yeah, the game is a tad broken lol.
Yes, that's how the infinite ticket glitch works

xRich UKx
03-22-2010, 03:29 PM
Ummm okay, first of all I'm pretty sure the AA is being buffed because it is shit awful as is at doing anything.

Secondly, there are plenty of other ways to take down a helicopter.

Third, Helicopters can only be repaired sparingly and only if you move your cursor around to find the "sweet spot" while moving, it's more of a pain in the ass than it's worth. Helicopters can only get a sustained heal when they hover and are at level altitude if they want to stay airborne, which leaves them vulnerable to a barrage of enemy fire. Otherwise they must land if they want to repair.

I defo read this as M60, M1911 NERFED, AA MASSIVE BOOST.

I find the Blackhawk easy to repair, can do it constantly with little/no effort to find a spot to heal whilst flying round. The HIND however, is an actual joke. Can take +1 min to find the spot where it repairs sometimes if your flying round at full pelt. I've found Blackhawk + VWARHD = Easy to demolish M-com buildings. Infact, any chopper + VWARHD = Easy infantry Kills. I'm suprised not more people have noticed.

Copyright
03-22-2010, 03:33 PM
Ummm okay, first of all I'm pretty sure the AA is being buffed because it is shit awful as is at doing anything.

Secondly, there are plenty of other ways to take down a helicopter.

Third, Helicopters can only be repaired sparingly and only if you move your cursor around to find the "sweet spot" while moving, it's more of a pain in the ass than it's worth. Helicopters can only get a sustained heal when they hover and are at level altitude if they want to stay airborne, which leaves them vulnerable to a barrage of enemy fire. Otherwise they must land if they want to repair.
I know you're "pro" and "super cool" but I'm speaking from my experience. I've had no problems repairing a chopper while in-flight for extended periods of time, while moving, surviving things that should never be possible.
I read your threads and never reply to you because I watch how you jump on anyone that says anything you don't like, so this will be the one and only time I ever speak to you, just remember that when I ignore anything further you have to say. I don't support/encourage your type and your massive egos.
Have a good day.

Sniper Riflez
03-22-2010, 03:59 PM
Time to whore out these weapons before the patch, the M60 and the 1911 will completely suck after.

HC is unplayable for me. Took 1 and a half hour to finish a Sqaud TDM on Arica Harbour because 14 of the 16 people in the game were sniping.

h3liumX
03-22-2010, 04:14 PM
Very happy to see the M60 will be toned down. Way too many people (ab)use it now. The other fixes are fine by me too.

A Satyr
03-22-2010, 05:51 PM
The M60 and 45 are as powerful as they should be and if you use improved warheads you can take down the apache in 3-4 bursts... Just leave all the weapons the way they are and fix the real problems in this game.

Daggra
03-23-2010, 01:16 AM
The 1911 is an amazing pistol, but I personally like using the M9 simply because I use it in every FPS game. The M60 is pretty powerful and I think there should be a minor damage decrease, and yes, definitely increase the AA damage, please. A skilled pilot + gunner in an apache will DESTROY everyone. Also, I had no idea that improved warheads works on the AA, I just assumed it worked on vehicles with shells, like tanks, or missles like the apache.

elephantd
03-23-2010, 01:37 AM
meh, add more guns pleassse.

Hot Juicy Pie
03-23-2010, 01:38 AM
I know you're "pro" and "super cool" Let the record show that he said this, not me. It is now official.

but I'm speaking from my experience.

"It's so clear the way the DICE guys play: Shotgun whores, Sniper whores, and Aircraft whores. They overpower each of these because it's what they like to use, no matter if it unbalances the game."

That's not speaking from experience, it's complaining and finger pointing because you don't like something.


I don't support/encourage your type and your massive egos.
Have a good day. Massive ego? Hardly, I speak my mind. When a person can beat me in debate, then I admit my fault. That's what forums are for, debate/discussion. If you don't like other peoples opinions try blogging instead.

You had enough of a spine to call me out, kudos to you. Why stop there? Your previous post was vague, if you're going to say something is difficult or unfair, explain why and maybe people wont be so critical to you.

xLUNCHTREYx
03-23-2010, 05:01 AM
I know you're "pro" and "super cool" but I'm speaking from my experience. I've had no problems repairing a chopper while in-flight for extended periods of time, while moving, surviving things that should never be possible.
I read your threads and never reply to you because I watch how you jump on anyone that says anything you don't like, so this will be the one and only time I ever speak to you, just remember that when I ignore anything further you have to say. I don't support/encourage your type and your massive egos.
Have a good day.

Arrogance is a way of masking ones insecurities.

Hot Juicy Pie
03-23-2010, 05:47 AM
Arrogance is a way of masking ones insecurities. Being indirect will get you nowhere, if you have a problem with me, speak up.

xLUNCHTREYx
03-23-2010, 05:58 AM
Being indirect will get you nowhere, if you have a problem with me, speak up.

And where exactly am I going? Arrogance is for the weak minded, I guess that's the route I am going on. ;)

Hot Juicy Pie
03-23-2010, 06:00 AM
And where exactly am I going? Arrogance is for the weak minded, I guess that's the route I am going on. ;) Now is that directed at me? Or at Copyright? because you quoted him. I didn't ask what route you were trying to insult a person, just to be direct.

The Danielnator
03-23-2010, 06:02 AM
Sounds like a good start, the M60 and 1911 are very OP and need to get tweaked and they need to make the AA functional so people actually use it. The M416 needs to be toned down, its too accurate (just look at G3). The shotguns (especially the 40mm attachment) need to have a significant range reduction and a spread/rof increase.

xLUNCHTREYx
03-23-2010, 06:04 AM
Now is that directed at me? Or at Copyright? because you quoted him. I didn't ask what route you were trying to insult a person, just to be direct.

I guess it could be put more simply....I believe you are arrogant or extremely unfriendly....most likely both.

Hot Juicy Pie
03-23-2010, 06:12 AM
I guess it could be put more simply....I believe you are arrogant or extremely unfriendly....most likely both. Meh fair enough. Although arrogance stems from false knowledge. I find I am pretty knowledgeable in the areas I am willing to debate, and I shy away from those that are foreign to me.

Friendly? Depends on the context. Yes, I am more verbally aggressive than the next person, but it gets the point I'm trying to make across. Besides, read the entire thread before you judge me. He made the first move, I retaliated. I don't get tread on, sorry not my way of going about things.

If you want to continue this PM me.

ANYWAYS, back on topic, anyone have a link to that guys twitter so I can follow him?

xLUNCHTREYx
03-23-2010, 06:20 AM
Meh fair enough. Although arrogance stems from false knowledge. I find I am pretty knowledgeable in the areas I am willing to debate, and I shy away from those that are foreign to me.

Friendly? Depends on the context. Yes, I am more verbally aggressive than the next person, but it gets the point I'm trying to make across. Besides, read the entire thread before you judge me. He made the first move, I retaliated. I don't get tread on, sorry not my way of going about things.

If you want to continue this PM me.

ANYWAYS, back on topic, anyone have a link to that guys twitter so I can follow him?

There is a very thin line between arrogance and confidence, but that's all i'm going to say. :drunk

Analgia
03-23-2010, 06:23 AM
Being indirect will get you nowhere, if you have a problem with me, speak up.
Your avatar is incredibly homoerotic.

Hot Juicy Pie
03-23-2010, 06:24 AM
Your avatar is incredibly homoerotic. Yup that is me and my locust bust I won during 13 days of gears... what can I say... I drank a lil too much that night... don't pretend like you've never been there.

Thanks though, wanna hook up sometime?

WoH Jabba81
03-23-2010, 07:25 AM
Yup that is me and my locust bust I won during 13 days of gears... what can I say... I drank a lil too much that night... don't pretend like you've never been there.

Thanks though, wanna hook up sometime?

Jo guys... please go back to topic or shoot each other in the game or do something else... its getting very off ;)

Also, the game is as it is.. like it or leave it and go playing something else.

Hot Juicy Pie
03-23-2010, 07:30 AM
Jo guys... please go back to topic or shoot each other in the game or do something else... its getting very off ;)

Also, the game is as it is.. like it or leave it and go playing something else. Welcome to the thread... speaking of off topic, did you read the first post? This isn't a discussion of things we want changed, it's discussing things the head developer at DICE announced that they are fixing at this very moment.

ilessthan3u
03-23-2010, 02:19 PM
I thot everything was fine too. Maybe the AA stands for something that will help out with bringing down the choppers easier. I love the M60, and I don't use the 1911, the revolver has way more power and is much better imo.

the revolver and the m1911 kill in two shots the m1911 having a faster fire rate and 1 more shot in a clip

Isometric
03-23-2010, 08:22 PM
Back on topic, I personally think that this needs to be changed or just a overall rework on how medics gain points. 50-80 points for a revive is ridiculous. IMO a person should only be able to be revived once, maybe twice per life. I mean it's a fucking defibrillator, not the hand of God, you can't mend bullet wounds with it. Secondly, I think point's should be toned down to 20 points for a revive and 30 for a squad revive. Medics are the biggest point whores I've ever seen and they gain enough from medkits as is. This will also be more of a reason not to constantly revive a person in a fire fight who is just going to die again.

You must be joking. If you haven't noticed, it takes a massive number of points to rank up once you become an officer. If anything, they should give MORE points...for everything. I'm looking at getting one more pin, 2 insignia, and a silver weapon star in my next match for a total of 16,000 award points. It will total LESS THAN A QUARTER of the experience I need for the next rank. And if you're still trying to max out each class, surely you've noticed that the medic class takes more points to max out than any other class....almost as if the designers were aware that a medic can rack up points quickly. Lastly, you are aware that there are no bonus super weapons for having more points than anyone else, right? Once you've unlocked the weapons, that's it - so who cares if a medic is getting a bunch of points after that? If you're that disturbed by it, aim for the guys with the little red hats first.

Hot Juicy Pie
03-23-2010, 08:26 PM
You must be joking. If you haven't noticed, it takes a massive number of points to rank up once you become an officer. If anything, they should give MORE points...for everything. I'm looking at getting one more pin, 2 insignia, and a silver weapon star in my next match for a total of 16,000 award points. It will total LESS THAN A QUARTER of the experience I need for the next rank. And if you're still trying to max out each class, surely you've noticed that the medic class takes more points to max out than any other class....almost as if the designers were aware that a medic can rack up points quickly. Lastly, you are aware that there are no bonus super weapons for having more points than anyone else, right? Once you've unlocked the weapons, that's it - so who cares if a medic is getting a bunch of points after that? If you're that disturbed by it, aim for the guys with the little red hats first. That's it? It takes 200,000+ exp for my current ranks, that's not what were debating. I'm saying it riddiculous how medics get more support points than any other support class and can outgun an assault class with the current m60 build.

Hitman H94
03-23-2010, 08:33 PM
Jeez everyone knows about the "enter the matrix" button. ;) lol
n00bs nowadays....
joke

DarkCrown
03-23-2010, 10:01 PM
:( I'm a M60 noob. (plz don't nerf it LoL)
Don't touch the 1911, it's fine. it's a .45 for god's sake.
AA's not sure about, how else do you drop an apache? even putting a tracer dart is hard enough.

I use a standard RPG and I touch the apache 80% of the time , you just need to calculate the travel distance and the drop ...

If the apache is at the others side of the map , that's another problem , but when it circle around the perimeters it's easy enough to shoot with a standard RPG at the good place to take it down in 1 shot , I normally aim for the tail.

MediumMelanin
03-24-2010, 01:23 AM
They're all being upgraded to do more damage! Ha! lol jk...

Hmm something's gonna change...:/

McGoogles
03-24-2010, 02:40 AM
M60 - A sniper rifle with 98% accuracy and 100 round magazines. :) It sure needs to be fixed.

M1911 .45 - A 7 round magazine with some power. Since the mag size is so small, shouldn't the damage be greater? Hence the Rex having a small mag with great power. I think the M1911 is perfect.

AA Gun - Pretty damn powerful against helicopters, weak against enemy players, and it gets destroyed very easily.

These are all my opinions. I think they should update the M60 only.

M49907
03-24-2010, 02:57 AM
they need to tone down the shotguns the distance is just bullshit

Using both shotgun specializations makes the shotguns to good. Yesterday I got a 1 shot kill with a shotgun at a range that I would estimate to be at least 400 yards. On hardcore they have crosshairs when the other guns dont, and the bullet drop isnt bad at all. I just wish I could put a scope on it because it is more effective than a sniper rifle at about 100 yards. Yeah, I said it... :(

Analgia
03-24-2010, 03:28 AM
Yesterday I got a 1 shot kill with a shotgun at a range that I would estimate to be at least 400 yards.
No gun in the game is a ohk at range.

JesusBread
03-24-2010, 05:48 AM
People should only be revived once or twice. Anyone remember Call of Duty 3 and how they did it? You could only get revived once. After that, you were dead. That was the perfect revive scenario in my opinion.

As far as the AA guns go, I have yet to see one. What map, or maps, is that gun on?

Cypher_Cobra
03-24-2010, 08:11 AM
I think people are too caught up in the AA vs Heli problem. It's a team effort. When a tank rolls in, several people team up and take it down with rockets in the typical scenario.

When a Heli appears(Port V for example) it's about combined firepower. The BMDA can attack, the T-90 can attack with the .50 turret and .30 cal coaxial, there are several emplaced .50 cal MGs and the UAV can engage it. Snipers equipped with the M95 cause 5-7% damage per shot. Engineers or people on the TOW can fire rockets and missiles, and anyone with a tracer dart can take a shot at the Heli.

If the team combines their firepower it is a bastard of a time for the Heli pilot, most pilots crash and burn with a quarter of the above firepower.

If you have troubles destroying a Heli, it's because the team has only 1, 2 or 3 people at the most fighting the Heli intelligently.

LmTz
03-24-2010, 01:38 PM
M60 is so overpowered. Glad it's going to be "rebalanced".

XaiXo
03-24-2010, 01:53 PM
You must be the one that I'm killing 24/7 with the shotgun. Ha, learn how to dodge a bullet in a game.


You must be the bush wookie that I constantly rail whether you're camping in a hedge or running around with a shotgun like a reject.


I don't see why the M60 is being rebalanced, I've never been outgunned by it. Sure, lots of people use it, but I think it's power is more myth than fact.

M1911 has been overpowered since the start, but it's a reliable creature. Still, if it gets nerfed, at least the REX will be more applicable.

AAs could use a buff, but frankly the only reason choppers stay up is poor team-mates or poor teamwork. Still, more kills for me when I take every chopper in the sky down. Atacama could use an AA buff more than anything.

killer297
03-24-2010, 02:00 PM
i dont really care for what they do as long as i can get the "mission.........accomplished" achievement then that is ok

Cypher_Cobra
03-25-2010, 12:37 AM
I bet the M60 even after the rebalance will still be the most popular machine gun, cause it's still gonna have the highest power rating and the most accuracy.

You might not be able to snipe with it anymore, but it'll still mow people down at medium and short range.

I really like the M60 but I can even tell that I've got an advantage against people. The M60 has that shotgun effect on other people when you both turn a corner and fire at the same time. The old WW2 Colt is pretty rediculous too, the power of the magnum with a faster firing rate and easier aiming.

DAUNTEDFLETTY
03-25-2010, 12:59 AM
@Demize99: "Going back to the studio tomorrow to work on Balance tweaks. On the list: M60, M1911, and AA. Up, down, sideways? I won't say..."

(Alan Kertz- Senior Dev on BFBC2)

M60 - i dont use as i dont play as medic very oftern
M1911 - i dont use because i love the MP-443 GRACH
AA - i thinks ok as 90% off the time i will easly take the chopper out off the sky even if its across the map : )

FingeredPope
03-25-2010, 02:41 AM
In the first one, the M60 was balanced out by its ironsights. Now with the advent of the ACOG and the red dot its a beast. I agree with the AA. Way underpowered with the whole six shot thing and the amount of damage it does it just laughable.

Pentexrx8
03-25-2010, 12:38 PM
I don't see how any gun that is available to everyone after you unlock it can be considered overpowered. The 1911 is a .45 cal weapon and the M60 is .30 cal. These bullets are meant to do immense damage to flesh, hence why the US and NATO use(d) these weapons/calibres. There is nothing preventing everyone from using these every map.

People want a realistic shooter with realistic weapons but when the weapons are realistic they begin to bitch that they are overpowered or broken. If anything I think some times these weapons are UNDERpowered. There have been times that I have put 10-15 rounds into a guy with a SAW or a 60 or even the AK74. In real life if you're hit with a 5.56 or 7.62 or a 5.45 bullet you're brain will be scrambled or you will have a new hole in your chest.

zeds
03-26-2010, 05:37 AM
I agree just leave the game alone! Yes maybe the m60 is slightly overpowered but so what? You do have the option of using it yourself! So i dont see there being a disadvantage at all as everyone gets the same opportunity in the end! Noobs will always moan about everything under the sun! and when they fuck this game up they will piss off and play something else, just a fact.

Hot Juicy Pie
03-26-2010, 05:46 AM
I agree just leave the game alone! Yes maybe the m60 is slightly overpowered but so what? You do have the option of using it yourself! So i dont see there being a disadvantage at all as everyone gets the same opportunity in the end! Noobs will always moan about everything under the sun! and when they fuck this game up they will piss off and play something else, just a fact. ... Because a game where everyone was a medic totally wouldn't take fucking forever...

And Demize99 already posted in a follow up twitter that he was doing the nerfs based on stat page read outs, not on forum trolls, crying, etc... If that were the case there would be alot more changes than just these 3 things... go ahead over to the ea forums... they cry about EVERYTHING... The countless threads about the mortar being gay are priceless.

zeds
03-26-2010, 05:58 AM
... Because a game where everyone was a medic totally wouldn't take fucking forever...

And Demize99 already posted in a follow up twitter that he was doing the nerfs based on stat page read outs, not on forum trolls, crying, etc... If that were the case there would be alot more changes than just these 3 things... go ahead over to the ea forums... they cry about EVERYTHING... The countless threads about the mortar being gay are priceless.

Whats up mate? touched a nerve? lol its people like you who live in the stone ages is the problem these days with games! Every person who plays this game has the same opportunity! Do you understand that??? So why change something you dont personally like? It's called adapting mate! thats the keyword here! Why should the game be changed because like i said earlier noobs cant take the pace and want developers to change the game to suit them??? But i know slowly the game will probably be changed for the worst as it did back on battlefield on pc!

I ain't crying about anything, as its not me who is moaning about the game! I dont want ANYTHING CHANGED! Leave the fucking game alone ;) Seems like that is too much to ask!

DENAz666
03-26-2010, 06:02 AM
I don't think the M60 is too powerful, it is just a bit to accurate. If they bumped up the recoil a bit, it would be a lot more even

Hot Juicy Pie
03-26-2010, 06:33 AM
Whats up mate? touched a nerve? lol its people like you who live in the stone ages is the problem these days with games! Every person who plays this game has the same opportunity! Do you understand that??? So why change something you dont personally like? It's called adapting mate! thats the keyword here! Why should the game be changed because like i said earlier noobs cant take the pace and want developers to change the game to suit them??? But i know slowly the game will probably be changed for the worst as it did back on battlefield on pc!

I ain't crying about anything, as its not me who is moaning about the game! I dont want ANYTHING CHANGED! Leave the fucking game alone ;) Seems like that is too much to ask! No, no nerve touched. How can you be so naive? How can you say a game is adaptive when you just suggested that everyone play the exact same? That's not adaptive, that's communism. You seeing red broham?

It's not that people are crying that they are making changes either, as I said, the head dev announced it was from game data reports that they decided to change things, not complaints. Additionally, as I've said countless times... you can pick a fight with me over this, but you'll lose. These are changes that are already in the works, not ones were sitting here saying "should" be put into effect. The games already been changed. You're the one crying about it, I bet you're a medic and I bet you run m60, magnum rounds, 4x optical sight... how cliche...

Off Topic, I'm not your "Mate" nor do I have any intention of ever being so. And please, you'll have to try a lot harder than that if you are trying to agitate me, don't get ahead of yourself.

zeds
03-26-2010, 12:10 PM
No, no nerve touched. How can you be so naive? How can you say a game is adaptive when you just suggested that everyone play the exact same? That's not adaptive, that's communism. You seeing red broham?

It's not that people are crying that they are making changes either, as I said, the head dev announced it was from game data reports that they decided to change things, not complaints. Additionally, as I've said countless times... you can pick a fight with me over this, but you'll lose. These are changes that are already in the works, not ones were sitting here saying "should" be put into effect. The games already been changed. You're the one crying about it, I bet you're a medic and I bet you run m60, magnum rounds, 4x optical sight... how cliche...

Off Topic, I'm not your "Mate" nor do I have any intention of ever being so. And please, you'll have to try a lot harder than that if you are trying to agitate me, don't get ahead of yourself.

And at least you have got one thing right buddy you aint my mate lol as someone with your narow mind never could be! Was just trying to be polite. But I do think calling you a neanderthal, before was harsh so i apologise for that.

"You're the one crying about it, I bet you're a medic and I bet you run m60, magnum rounds, 4x optical sight... how cliche..."

Believe it or not, thats not my cup of tea at all lol. I do sometimes use the m60 but with the red dot sight. And the improved healing! I am a medic after all. But I put the red dot sight on nearly all my weapons, never really used the 4x sight at all. and I have bronze, silver and gold across nearly all my weapons even the ones i dont like! So no I am not some m60 whore lol.

You were complaining about the medics getting too much points with the game, have you seen how many points are needed for the later ranks? its not a few hundred thousand points, it's millions let me know when you reach level fifty legit! lmfao. I'll come back in a few years to see how far you get. Just google it if you dont believe me.

And if you were implying I am russian lol I am also from the uk but seems I had a bit better education.

Before this turns out into some sort off topic crap lol I shall leave it alone as I know for a fact I wont lose but people will have there ego's badly bruised afterward. As your post clearly show there is no point in continuing this discussion, with someone who has there mind already made up. And wont see reason. I have far better things to do in life then argue with a brick wall.

Like I said before the games fantastic as is so "Why do noobs have to mess this up?" Just learn to adapt thats the key to any survival. I have already accepted they are making the changes and I dont really care TBH lmao.

And lastly I do respect other people's opinions whether its right or wrong but I dont have to agree with them! :)

(Please remember this is nothing personal and if I did offend you please accept my apology in advance)

Hot Juicy Pie
03-26-2010, 01:14 PM
And at least you have got one thing right buddy you aint my mate lol as someone with your narow mind never could be! Was just trying to be polite. But I do think calling you a neanderthal, before was harsh so i apologise for that.

"You're the one crying about it, I bet you're a medic and I bet you run m60, magnum rounds, 4x optical sight... how cliche..."

Believe it or not, thats not my cup of tea at all lol. I do sometimes use the m60 but with the red dot sight. And the improved healing! I am a medic after all. But I put the red dot sight on nearly all my weapons, never really used the 4x sight at all. and I have bronze, silver and gold across nearly all my weapons even the ones i dont like! So no I am not some m60 whore lol.

You were complaining about the medics getting too much points with the game, have you seen how many points are needed for the later ranks? its not a few hundred thousand points, it's millions let me know when you reach level fifty legit! lmfao. I'll come back in a few years to see how far you get. Just google it if you dont believe me.

And if you were implying I am russian lol I am also from the uk but seems I had a bit better education.

Before this turns out into some sort off topic crap lol I shall leave it alone as I know for a fact I wont lose but people will have there ego's badly bruised afterward. As your post clearly show there is no point in continuing this discussion, with someone who has there mind already made up. And wont see reason. I have far better things to do in life then argue with a brick wall.

Like I said before the games fantastic as is so "Why do noobs have to mess this up?" Just learn to adapt thats the key to any survival. I have already accepted they are making the changes and I dont really care TBH lmao.

And lastly I do respect other people's opinions whether its right or wrong but I dont have to agree with them! :)

(Please remember this is nothing personal and if I did offend you please accept my apology in advance) And as I said in that post, with it taking so many points to level up, why should medics have such a huge curve for earning points. This game is centered around balance, No class should be a jack of all trades. And nothing pisses me off more than getting out gunned by a M60 when I'm playing assault and I get the first shot off. The gun is overpowered, you admitted it yourself. I for one welcome the change.

Narrow minded? Nah, it's called a joke buddy.

You say I'm just some "noob" crying? I have never once complained about this game aside from once in this thread commenting on my thoughts of how I felt about the changes. I'm well aware of the some 6 million+ exp it takes to get to 50. You apparently think I'm some sort of new comer, so why don't you post your stats and we will compare.

CovertDog
03-26-2010, 01:37 PM
I was so hoping this wasn't going to turn into the MW2 forum. Everyone arguing over weapons and playing styles. Everyone has an opinion on which weapons/class/perks are the best or they like. Also everyone is going to have an opinion on which weapon/class/perks make you a "noob". No one is right and no one is wrong, so having a pissing contest over it will prove nothing.

zeds
03-26-2010, 01:44 PM
Looks like we got off on the wrong foot lol.

Yes it does piss people off when your an assault class, and some swine with the m60 kills you from half way accross the map! I feel the pain aswell especially when they keep there finger on the trigger and theres me busrting away with my abakan only to be literally be outgunned! But i dont think its the damage is the real issue here for me anyway. Its all the support guns have way too much accuracy is the real killer for me. as we all know light machine guns were designed for cover fire, to keep the opposing team oppressed not some highly accurate weapon.

And no i didnt actually say you were a noob at all! lol my gt is Zashark go compare if you want but i dont really think stats mean alot in a game were team work is key. and if you use that online site have a look at the times i have played each kit. I like to play as all kits even though sniping is kinda favourite!

And yeah you can be my mate if you want to lol have a good un!

zeds
03-26-2010, 01:47 PM
I was so hoping this wasn't going to turn into the MW2 forum. Everyone arguing over weapons and playing styles. Everyone has an opinion on which weapons/class/perks are the best or they like. Also everyone is going to have an opinion on which weapon/class/perks make you a "noob". No one is right and no one is wrong, so having a pissing contest over it will prove nothing.

I agree completely matey, That statement says it all and as long as everyone has the same "shit" i dont personally care lol. I dont really believe in noobs as everyone has to start somewhere!

Hot Juicy Pie
03-26-2010, 01:48 PM
Looks like we got off on the wrong foot lol.

Yes it does piss people off when your an assault class, and some swine with the m60 kills you from half way accross the map! I feel the pain aswell especially when they keep there finger on the trigger and theres me busrting away with my abakan only to be literally be outgunned! But i dont think its the damage is the real issue here for me anyway. Its all the support guns have way too much accuracy is the real killer for me. as we all know light machine guns were designed for cover fire, to keep the opposing team oppressed not some highly accurate weapon.

And no i didnt actually say you were a noob at all! lol my gt is Zashark go compare if you want but i dont really think stats mean alot in a game were team work is key. and if you use that online site have a look at the times i have played each kit. I like to play as all kits even though sniping is kinda favourite!

And yeah you can be my mate if you want to lol have a good un! Well they still haven't said what all was being changed on these things... whether it be damage, range, accuracy... all we know is "rebalanced"

Stat time. And yes although individual stats might not mean much, together you can get a good assumption of how a person plays.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b145/DarkTyrant/HvZ.jpg

Okay so by looking at this, you're definitely more squad oriented than myself. Given, you're a medic, that's your job, kudos to you. However it looks like you mainly stick to your squad and don't pay much attention to the rest of the team, admittably it's difficult since you can't communicate with them other than with the buggy back button.

zeds
03-26-2010, 03:49 PM
Well they still haven't said what all was being changed on these things... whether it be damage, range, accuracy... all we know is "rebalanced"

Stat time. And yes although individual stats might not mean much, together you can get a good assumption of how a person plays.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b145/DarkTyrant/HvZ.jpg

Okay so by looking at this, you're definitely more squad oriented than myself. Given, you're a medic, that's your job, kudos to you. However it looks like you mainly stick to your squad and don't pay much attention to the rest of the team, admittably it's difficult since you can't communicate with them other than with the buggy back button.

See by your statement thats a bit wrong there, Even if i did play medic all the time which i dont lmao i still help the rest of my team and like i said on the stats page it shows the time i have spent on each class and there roughly all the same! You can get a lot of squad score by helping out your squad in different ways not just as a medic. As i did have a look on yours and kudos to you as well for being assault most of the time rambo. We all need ammo. and yes that back button thing is a nightmare when no one talks and your trying to help someone out. We all play this game with a different style and preference there is no right or wrong but somethings seem to help the team more then others. And from a quick look at the stats i dont think any one can honestly say i ain't a team player lol.

h3liumX
03-26-2010, 04:02 PM
I agree just leave the game alone! Yes maybe the m60 is slightly overpowered but so what? You do have the option of using it yourself! So i dont see there being a disadvantage at all as everyone gets the same opportunity in the end! Noobs will always moan about everything under the sun! and when they fuck this game up they will piss off and play something else, just a fact.

You would be right, except you forgot that you can't pick the M60 with every kit. Only medics can use it and that means the game is unbalanced.

zeds
03-26-2010, 05:29 PM
You would be right, except you forgot that you can't pick the M60 with every kit. Only medics can use it and that means the game is unbalanced.

Yes your right i did forget only medics have light machine guns, and other kits only have there specific weapons. But each class players differently so make the best of the class your using like it seems most people think the medic is some sort of super class its not! its how you play with em that counts. And i did mention the m60 does seem a little overpowered before but my issue with it and all light machine guns is accuracy not damage.

h3liumX
03-26-2010, 07:21 PM
Yes your right i did forget only medics have light machine guns, and other kits only have there specific weapons. But each class players differently so make the best of the class your using like it seems most people think the medic is some sort of super class its not! its how you play with em that counts. And i did mention the m60 does seem a little overpowered before but my issue with it and all light machine guns is accuracy not damage.

Agreed. Especially if you're going to be running around and doing backflips while shooting an LMG the accuracy should go down. After all, guns like the M60 are powerful but not mobile in reality. The gun weighs 25 pounds, how are these guys bouncing around with it like it's an SMG?

But even a power nerf would be better than no fix at all.

Hot Juicy Pie
03-27-2010, 01:30 AM
See by your statement thats a bit wrong there, Even if i did play medic all the time which i dont lmao i still help the rest of my team and like i said on the stats page it shows the time i have spent on each class and there roughly all the same! You can get a lot of squad score by helping out your squad in different ways not just as a medic. As i did have a look on yours and kudos to you as well for being assault most of the time rambo. We all need ammo. and yes that back button thing is a nightmare when no one talks and your trying to help someone out. We all play this game with a different style and preference there is no right or wrong but somethings seem to help the team more then others. And from a quick look at the stats i dont think any one can honestly say i ain't a team player lol. Rambo yes, I like killing... But look at my insignia... I'm only missing 3, 2 of which are glitched lol. I've definitely worked my way around all the classes to get a handle on them. I'm assault mainly and Engineer on vehicle heavy maps, I can't stand recon, and medic is alright, just not my cup of tea... something about that red beret screams shoot here.

zeds
03-27-2010, 02:28 AM
Agreed. Especially if you're going to be running around and doing backflips while shooting an LMG the accuracy should go down. After all, guns like the M60 are powerful but not mobile in reality. The gun weighs 25 pounds, how are these guys bouncing around with it like it's an SMG?

But even a power nerf would be better than no fix at all.

Yeah i dont think the devs properly thought that one out lol it really is annoying and frustrating. and yes when you put it like that i suppose so.


Rambo yes, I like killing... But look at my insignia... I'm only missing 3, 2 of which are glitched lol. I've definitely worked my way around all the classes to get a handle on them. I'm assault mainly and Engineer on vehicle heavy maps, I can't stand recon, and medic is alright, just not my cup of tea... something about that red beret screams shoot here.

Glitched that is shitty mate hope you get that sorted i think they will but sooner the better! And yes i really really know what you mean about the beret! lmao that is spot on.

Hot Juicy Pie
03-27-2010, 03:23 AM
Yeah i dont think the devs properly thought that one out lol it really is annoying and frustrating. and yes when you put it like that i suppose so.




Glitched that is shitty mate hope you get that sorted i think they will but sooner the better! And yes i really really know what you mean about the beret! lmao that is spot on. Theyre glitched for everyone... the M1 garand cant earn stars, so the get all weapon bronze stars and earn all bronze stars insignias cant be unlocked... other than that I'm missing play for 5 days

zeds
03-27-2010, 03:44 AM
never knew that since i only tried the m1 for a few minutes and didn't really like it but thats kinda good to know at least i wont be using it for awhile

lonesome killer
03-27-2010, 05:50 AM
M60 sucks. My preferred weapon is the SAW and the AA is definitely underpowered. I can't tell you how many times I've shot Helicopters with it and they just keep going.

smellypotatoes
04-13-2010, 07:10 PM
lol yea sniping with shotguns is bs

MaHiTToJR
04-13-2010, 09:19 PM
M60 with x4 scope and magnum, its very strong, best a weapon can get, but for close range when I move at the same time, i barely never kill anything, as if the bullets go all over the place except for the place im aiming at. Maybe its a lack of skill but i cant be rambo with it, rather join snipers.

As for the 1911, thats my rambo weapon, if there was a scope for this, it would be the only weapon i need. Don't even have to aim down the sight to kill at close to medium range.

smellypotatoes
04-13-2010, 09:25 PM
dang i love the m60 and colt.. shame

pined5551
04-13-2010, 10:41 PM
To be fair, I know the M60 is too powerful, but all the rest are pretty shit apart from the PKM. Without the M60, the medic class is useless.

NB: I know, I know he can heal and revive and be a great 'team player' etc, but at the end of the day, all that comes second to defending yourself and trying to kill enemies. Or at least it should, you kill the enemy then revive the teamate, if the LMG is too shit they'll just be another kill to the name of the player who shot the original victim.

Jaffazoid
04-14-2010, 02:01 AM
The only thing that is broken or frustrating about this game are the noob medics who revive you in the line of fire (and when you're defending on rush... there's never really much point!), just for you to die again and them to skip off with their sweet 50-80 points. I don't think there's anything that can be done about it, except if the player being revived has to press a button or something to get revived, but then that would defeat the purpose of it being a quick, useful way back into battle.

Plus the M60 is overpowered, but its not impossible to beat or anything. It's way off AWP standards.

Edit: lol yea sniping with shotguns is bs

It is kinda fake, but at the same time, they're pretty slow weapons. You couldn't kill multiple enemies at long range as fast as the M16. Also it takes a helluva lot of skill to be able to pull off the long distance shotgunning so anyone using it effectively deserves the fakeness, if you get me.

iBeatStuffUp
04-14-2010, 02:36 AM
When is this update going to happen, does anyone know?

MediumMelanin
04-14-2010, 04:14 AM
^^^Hasn't been confirmed, but maybe soon...I bet the M60 & M1911 .45 are being decreased & the AA is being increased...

Dee Zee
04-14-2010, 04:22 AM
Thank God, I hated that M60! I hope they're toning it down and not up, haha.

TALINKINMAN
04-14-2010, 10:50 AM
fix the m60 please but dont touch the m16:) i just got good with it and up the m14 just a smidge because three shots to kill for a 7.62 mm kinda sux it should be two shots at mid range but i suppose if they make it to stong it would be unstoppable


come to think of it leave the guns alone and fix the fact that thopmson doesnt track kills im missing three isgnias and would like to get the two i have earned i have bronze in everything but the thompson