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Madfrog0
05-07-2010, 04:28 AM
the achievements with the servers down you know? so you cant get them and it sucks.

i think that if that's the case, when you pop in the game it should just pop the ones you can now longer get. well, maybe not just given out, but something to make them achievable.

what do you think? should these achievements be lost to everyone and now long able to get? or should they be handed out?

Giptuc
05-07-2010, 05:30 AM
that actually seems like an alright idea. However it would have to be only for games you have played online before the servers were shut down, or every cheevo whore out there would just be buying every EA game they could find lol

Cable Player
05-07-2010, 07:34 AM
I agree with the OP, Microsoft should really make rules for companies to do a simple update to make the full 100% achievable.
And if they are glitched out of control, they should simply, as you suggested, pop up when you load up the game.

There are too many games out there that you cannot play online, or the achievement list is incomplete and in my own personal opinion I think it will come back to bite Microsoft in the ass with a law suit one day.

Cardiff1927
05-07-2010, 07:40 AM
What will they do to Battlefield 1943 if they close the servers because it just online isn't it?

Madfrog0
05-07-2010, 07:42 AM
I agree with the OP, Microsoft should really make rules for companies to do a simple update to make the full 100% achievable.
And if they are glitched out of control, they should simply, as you suggested, pop up when you load up the game.

There are too many games out there that you cannot play online, or the achievement list is incomplete and in my own personal opinion I think it will come back to bite Microsoft in the ass with a law suit one day.

yea, a update or something would be cool. or just something

Cable Player
05-07-2010, 07:44 AM
What will they do to Battlefield 1943 if they close the servers because it just online isn't it?

I wouldn't have thought it would be closed.
I was about to buy Halo 2, and I asked myself IF I HAD, what would Microsoft have done? Just told me to bugger off?
I wouldn't have been classes as a halo fanatic, and to be honest 400MP is a peice of crap in my opinion. And a beta code that cant even be delivered to you on time so you miss the opening of the beta anyway - although you will probably have an ODST copy anyway...
IF I had bought Halo 2 and they shut of the servers without compensating me reasonably I would have sued Microsoft.

That goes with any game. It is not a shallow threat.
I would love to sue Epic games for ******* my Gears 2 data.....

Cardiff1927
05-07-2010, 07:52 AM
I think they should compensate for games server being closed because you did pay money to play there games and then they cut you off. I don't think they should just hand out the achievements because then you havnt achieved anything, they should update the game to change the achievement to a single player achievement

Cable Player
05-07-2010, 07:56 AM
I think they should compensate for games server being closed because you did pay money to play there games and then they cut you off. I don't think they should just hand out the achievements because then you havnt achieved anything, they should update the game to change the achievement to a single player achievement

you have a very valid point here, but game companies arn't going to want to spend time on games they made X amount of years ago, which many people probably don't actually play anymore - for example Need for Speed Carbon and ProStreet.

On the other hand, Lord of the Rings Conquest - there were many many avid fans for that game who were on it non stop, but they didn't get compensated for being kicked off it...

Gun-Nut
05-07-2010, 08:02 AM
I think the easiest solution to online achievements when servers get shutdown is allow them to be done with CPU or if its like win 100 games then simply have that offline with CPU since I believe most EA Games would let you do this.

If worst came to worse put some code in for Peer to Peer play which should be done on all games anyways! whats wrong with Private Matches.

Cable Player
05-07-2010, 08:13 AM
I think the easiest solution to online achievements when servers get shutdown is allow them to be done with CPU or if its like win 100 games then simply have that offline with CPU since I believe most EA Games would let you do this.

If worst came to worse put some code in for Peer to Peer play which should be done on all games anyways! whats wrong with Private Matches.

Have they not still got to be done over the servers though?

Infection Ftw
05-07-2010, 10:04 AM
Personally the best solution I could think of is that if a game has unachieveable achievements and it doesn't get fixed in 3 months then you should get them after you unlocked all the obtainable achievements. But won't happen probably.

mmartynn
05-07-2010, 10:16 AM
they close servers down due to either not enough people playing, they no longer want to support that game or they wanna use the servers for osmething else.

so on that being said, they wouldnt really add an update or anything that would give you the ability to obtain them.

Cardiff1927
05-07-2010, 10:32 AM
@infection ftw

I doubt that this will ever happen because you aren't achieveing anything
Also what if the game has 100% online achievements and they close the servers you will don't just instanly complete the game

Cable Player
05-07-2010, 01:09 PM
Personally the best solution I could think of is that if a game has unachieveable achievements and it doesn't get fixed in 3 months then you should get them after you unlocked all the obtainable achievements. But won't happen probably.

they close servers down due to either not enough people playing, they no longer want to support that game or they wanna use the servers for osmething else.
so on that being said, they wouldnt really add an update or anything that would give you the ability to obtain them.

@infection ftw
I doubt that this will ever happen because you aren't achieveing anything
Also what if the game has 100% online achievements and they close the servers you will don't just instanly complete the game

Three good points. My personal opinion is that Microsoft should definatley do something about it, but as we are finding out, it would be a tough decision either way, if they did decide to do something.

marzipanninja
05-07-2010, 02:22 PM
I believe its only EA that are shutting servers as they refused to allow Microsoft to dictate their online policeis which is why EA run their own servers, where as everyone else has Microsoft support so servers for old games are still open but are run at a lower capacity than newer more popular games. So as long as its not an EA game you should be fine.

Cable Player
05-07-2010, 02:25 PM
I believe its only EA that are shutting servers as they refused to allow Microsoft to dictate their online policeis which is why EA run their own servers, where as everyone else has Microsoft support so servers for old games are still open but are run at a lower capacity than newer more popular games. So as long as its not an EA game you should be fine.

:goodpost: That'l be why then lol

sk83rty
05-07-2010, 03:44 PM
They should do something to make up for it. If they're just going to shut down all the servers for games (specifically EA) they shouldn't punish completionists.

Cable Player
05-07-2010, 03:57 PM
They should do something to make up for it. If they're just going to shut down all the servers for games (specifically EA) they shouldn't punish completionists.

They shouldn't punish people in general.
You are not getting what you are purchasing.
You are buying the right to play the game, and all the functions with the game, so if the game doesnt function properly, I will at least play it as soon as I buy it and go and get a refund.
:D

Capn Doug
05-07-2010, 04:18 PM
I believe its only EA that are shutting servers as they refused to allow Microsoft to dictate their online policeis which is why EA run their own servers, where as everyone else has Microsoft support so servers for old games are still open but are run at a lower capacity than newer more popular games. So as long as its not an EA game you should be fine.

Blatantly untrue. Check you facts before you post garbage. There are many companies that shut down and repurpose their servers. 2K has about the same number of points that are unachievable because of closed down servers, but funny how no one mentions them. It is always big bad evil EA that wants to fuck with your completion rate.

Second, and I don't know how I can say this any clearer than I have in every other thread about this sort of thing: It is not the developer's job to pad your gamerscore and it is not their job to keep servers open indefinitely. Seriously, every game that has had its servers closed down, had its servers open for AT LEAST a year. You had a year, often three or four, to get the achievements, and you couldn't be bothered to do it. EA gives 30 days notice that they are going to shut down a server, and still it is too much effort to go and get the game before it shuts down. I have absolutely no sympathy for anyone who loses a completion possibility because the server is shutting down.

Unlocking achievements automatically? Why not go a step further? If you have a game that has had it's servers shut down, just take a picture of it with your windows phone: 1000 Gs. Hold it up to Natal: 1000 Gs. Achievements are supposed to make you feel like you have achieved something, and sometimes that involves doing something at a specific time. If you really want the achievements after the server has shut down, hack the server, it will give you the same dirty feeling as unlocking the achievement automatically.

If you put off getting the achievement until after the server was shut down or the DLC was delisted, quit complaining. The only person you can blame is yourself, because you put it off for too long.

Cable Player
05-07-2010, 04:26 PM
hahaa raggggeeeee

iKiddo
05-07-2010, 04:47 PM
They should do something to make up for it. If they're just going to shut down all the servers for games (specifically EA) they shouldn't punish completionists.

Dont put it off then. Most EA shutdowns are for old games that no one plays anyway so its only you too blame.

Capn Doug
05-07-2010, 04:56 PM
hahaa raggggeeeee

It isn't rage, I have posted roughly the same thing everytime someone posts a thread like this. I have even been accused of being an EA employee (I am not, but they indirectly affect my bottom line). People want to bitch about something, EA gets alot of their wrath unjustly. Servers are expensive to maintain and they host servers for a ton of games. At least they give warning before shutting down a server.

And yes, the bold was added for emphasis, not to shout.

Madfrog0
05-07-2010, 05:22 PM
so your telling me that a kid that just bought a 360 for the first time and walks into gamestop or a game store and buys a cheap game (because that's all he can afford) and that kid cannot unlock the achievements, then that's his fault?

come on buddy, you got a bit harsh over a simple topic. i not asking you to change your last name or something, i made a suggestion for a way to get old achievements. so lighten up and join in on the fun. we all know its just wishful thinking.

xliferuinerx
05-07-2010, 05:24 PM
that actually seems like an alright idea. However it would have to be only for games you have played online before the servers were shut down, or every cheevo whore out there would just be buying every EA game they could find lol


It would make EA a LOT more money!

Cable Player
05-07-2010, 05:25 PM
so your telling me that a kid that just bought a 360 for the first time and walks into gamestop or a game store and buys a cheap game (because that's all he can afford) and that kid cannot unlock the achievements, then that's his fault?

come on buddy, you got a bit harsh over a simple topic. i not asking you to change your last name or something, i made a suggestion for a way to get old achievements. so lighten up and join in on the fun. we all know its just wishful thinking.

haha I love posts like this, I agree, it shouldn't be taken so seriously :p

Madfrog0
05-07-2010, 05:45 PM
exactly, its just all in fun. nothing to get all mad over. its a forum. have fun. :D

Xylon Uxkid
05-07-2010, 05:50 PM
Another thing that would be cool, its to change the req for the achievement. Instead of winning x amount of online games, change to something like...kill x number of baddies, or like some of you said, just give away the achievement.

punker
05-07-2010, 05:52 PM
so your telling me that a kid that just bought a 360 for the first time and walks into gamestop or a game store and buys a cheap game (because that's all he can afford) and that kid cannot unlock the achievements, then that's his fault?


No, but it also isn't the company's fault that the person waited until the product was obsolete before they purchased it. It would be like going out today and buying a VCR because it's cheap, and then demanding that the movie studios send you free videotapes since they're no longer readily available.

Dustinator
05-07-2010, 05:56 PM
so your telling me that a kid that just bought a 360 for the first time and walks into gamestop or a game store and buys a cheap game (because that's all he can afford) and that kid cannot unlock the achievements, then that's his fault?
He was referring to someone that puts off getting online achievements who has had the game for awhile. Don't suggest he's telling this kid you made up to screw off since he just got the game

come on buddy, you got a bit harsh over a simple topic. i not asking you to change your last name or something, i made a suggestion for a way to get old achievements. so lighten up and join in on the fun. we all know its just wishful thinking.
I've seen Capn Doug reply to other people that have made threads just like you have and he's replied the same way to them as you. Heck, I've seen this question/suggestion of achievements being unobtainable solution many times. Use the search function.....I'd be annoyed if certain people made threads about certain things when a similiar thread was created last month or the month before


haha I ove posts like this, I agree, it shouldn't be taken so seriously :p

Me too, like your spelling. It makes me laugh because you can't proof read yet you'll jump in to bash Capn for "raging."

Filter x360a
05-07-2010, 06:05 PM
Me too, like your spelling. It makes me laugh because you can't proof read yet you'll jump in to bash Capn for "raging."

LOL! Now that made me laugh!

Seriously though, there have been 20+ threads just like this. It'll never happen. I'm glad you believe it's wishful thinking cause it will never amount to more then that.

Madfrog0
05-07-2010, 06:11 PM
wow, i'm loving all the forum rage...

if you don't like a topic why even open it? or better yet why reply? that just bumps the thread. why not pass it by and go on with you're lives?

like i said, it's just a topic. :D

Capn Doug
05-07-2010, 06:21 PM
so your telling me that a kid that just bought a 360 for the first time and walks into gamestop or a game store and buys a cheap game (because that's all he can afford) and that kid cannot unlock the achievements, then that's his fault?

A kid in that situation is unlikely to find himself in the mentality of a score whore or a completionist. He is more likely going to be concerned that he can't play with his buddy online than the fact that he can only get 850/1000 Gs on the game. And so you are aware, I am not mad or upset at the suggestion you made, I just feel that your opinion is misguided since it belittles the achievements of people who earned them legitimately. Remember the push to get the 1000 People Online achievement? Imagine if everyone on this site had gone through all that effort to plan it, and then anyone could unlock it just by putting the game in the tray. People who gained it through that event would be livid. You are supposed to feel like you achieved something when you hear that bloop and see your score increase.

No, but it also isn't the company's fault that the person waited until the product was obsolete before they purchased it. It would be like going out today and buying a VCR because it's cheap, and then demanding that the movie studios send you free videotapes since they're no longer readily available.

That's actually a pretty apt comparison. The games that have their servers shut down are almost always ones where there has been a sequel released. The sports games get a new version every year, and many of the casual gamers move onto the next one pretty quickly. Only exception is Fifa, since the old licence was only for one game at a time. They could not have servers open for two Fifa games at the same time.

He was referring to someone that puts off getting online achievements who has had the game for awhile. Don't suggest he's telling this kid you made up to screw off since he just got the game

I've seen Capn Doug reply to other people that have made threads just like you have and he's replied the same way to them as you. Heck, I've seen this question/suggestion of achievements being unobtainable solution many times. Use the search function.....I'd be annoyed if certain people made threads about certain things when a similiar thread was created last month or the month before

Also true, most people who find themselves concerned about the server closing are those who knew it was coming and did nothing until it was too late (only exception is those dozen or so Halo 2 holdouts, I wonder if it will ever get down to just one). It is almost like people have no interest in it until it is about to disappear. I know 2K does not have the same policy about giving notice about closing servers, so before MLB 2K10 came out, I spent a solid weekend getting Team 2K in 2K9 and then spent another two weeks giving it away to anyone who asked. I didn't put it off.

And as a self described politician I have learned how to stay on message. And, as clearly demonstrated, how to control the debate.

Dustinator
05-07-2010, 06:23 PM
wow, i'm loving all the forum rage...

if you don't like a topic why even open it? or better yet why reply? that just bumps the thread. why not pass it by and go on with you're lives?

like i said, it's just a topic. :D

I open a thread when the title interests me. Since I've seen titles similiar to this one, I opened it. I replied since certain people were taking what others were saying out of context. I don't like to see others getting misquoted and such or telling them they're raging. Heck, I'd be defending myself just because that's my choice.

In the end, it's just me informing people that there have been threads like this one created before because the poster just wanted to get opinions from others. And other posters even recognize that threads like this have been created before.

Cable Player
05-07-2010, 06:28 PM
A kid in that situation is unlikely to find himself in the mentality of a score whore or a completionist. He is more likely going to be concerned that he can't play with his buddy online than the fact that he can only get 850/1000 Gs on the game.

And as a self described politician I have learned how to stay on message. And, as clearly demonstrated, how to control the debate.


So what if that 8 year old is a fan of lord of the rings? Too bad they can't get 1000 on Conquest now, which is brilliant for 8 year olds.

Dustinator
05-07-2010, 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by Capn Doug http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/images/X360A/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showthread.php?p=3065251#post3065251)
A kid in that situation is unlikely to find himself in the mentality of a score whore or a completionist. He is more likely going to be concerned that he can't play with his buddy online than the fact that he can only get 850/1000 Gs on the game.

So what if that 8 year old is a fan of lord of the rings? Too bad they can't get 1000 on Conquest now, which is brilliant for 8 year olds.

Your post hurts my head :( Like he said before an "8 year old kid," is most likely not going to be concerned with 1king Lord of the Rings. Throwing all these what if scenarios is a tad ridiculous....

Besides, what the hell is an 8 year old doing playing Lord of the Rings Conquest?!?! Isn't that game rate T or M? He "shouldn't" be playing that game.

punker
05-07-2010, 06:38 PM
So what if that 8 year old is a fan of lord of the rings? Too bad they can't get 1000 on Conquest now, which is brilliant for 8 year olds.

How does a person's age have anything to do with the original argument?

Plus, an eight-year-old probably doesn't even know or care about completion percentage.



Edit-- Dustinator beat me to it.

Capn Doug
05-07-2010, 06:38 PM
So what if that 8 year old is a fan of lord of the rings? Too bad they can't get 1000 on Conquest now, which is brilliant for 8 year olds.

How many 8 year old completionists do you know? I don't think there are that many. That is kind of like the debate over the achievement list for Lego Rock Band. Everyone said it was garbage to have to 100% the Final Countdown since it was not possible for your average 8 year old to do that. Can we please drop the pretense that we are debating this for the sake of some poor 8 year old? This is purely about wanting OUR achievements and OUR completion rates to increase. Don't try and have it masquerade as anything else.

Cable Player
05-07-2010, 06:39 PM
Besides, what the hell is an 8 year old doing playing Lord of the Rings Conquest?!?! Isn't that game rate T or M? He "shouldn't" be playing that game.

Well they play MW2 don't they? Need I say more? :D

CodSteaks
05-07-2010, 06:56 PM
Need I say more? :D

if we say no, will that stop you?
i apologize i don't have anything to say on topic, because honestly everything i think on the subject has been covered, mostly by Capn Doug. i am amused, though, that it seems like half the posts on this thread are by you, Cable Player, and most of those posts are pretty pointless.

Cable Player
05-07-2010, 08:03 PM
if we say no, will that stop you?
i apologize i don't have anything to say on topic, because honestly everything i think on the subject has been covered, mostly by Capn Doug. i am amused, though, that it seems like half the posts on this thread are by you, Cable Player, and most of those posts are pretty pointless.

Well that would be because I was replying to a comment...
Ok, I have posted a lot on this thread but it interests me, and every post has been continuing or sparking off a new part of the conversation/topic of unobtainable multiplayer achievements.
I have just been taking a conversation and putting it how I see it.
Things have stayed on topic, because we have been discussing multiplayer achievements; why are they being taken off; about the servers being shut down; and what about the completionists/ people who just want to play the games.

When I said, 'well 8 year olds play Modern Warfare 2, need I say more', I was merley making a point to Dustinator that age rating quite often does NOT stop children playing games they should not be.

If I mislead people to believe I meant '8 year old completionists' then I appologise. What I meant was that if an 8 year old who is a fan of whatever game, (I used Lord of the Rings as an example, because lets face it - lots of 8 year olds like lord of the rings,) they are going to play the game lots and lots, and most likley get the majority of the achievements from them.

I don't see why we need to be getting so worked up by it :eek:

On a side-note...
Me too, like your spelling. It makes me laugh because you can't proof read yet you'll jump in to bash Capn for "raging."
There is no need to nit-pick on peoples spelling.
I am dyslexic and I see the word as I think it is. I use spell checker and then that is it. You should not have to proof read EVERYTHING you type. I have had this argument before, it is not necesary to spot out somebodys spelling mistakes, and in fact it is rather rude.
And for your information I changed "ove" to "love" before I noticed this comment.

MinginMate
05-07-2010, 11:19 PM
great ideas but they would never be the good to us

XXII Death IIXX
05-07-2010, 11:39 PM
Should they unlock achievements that are out of date? No.

Should they unlock glitched as fuck no matter what you do, or how many freakin times you do it achievements? Hell yes... I'm looking at you Mercenaries 2

Spoony Bard
05-08-2010, 02:08 AM
All developers need to take a page from Rare's book; after discovering that the online component for Banjo Kazooie Nuts & Bolts was dead, they released a title update that let you earn some of the online Achievements through local play with a second controller.

ogbross
05-08-2010, 08:51 AM
Why not look in the unachieveable achievement thread .... duhhhh

Arenazombie
05-08-2010, 10:41 AM
Probably they should just have some servers for different old games, so like 1 day per month u can play Lord of the Rings, the next day Fifa, then NBA, so that there are no permanent servers open for different games, just certain events where u could play these games online.
But I don't know if that would be too much efford.
Otherwise I like the Idea of letting players earn the achievement on local multiplayer or against AI (probably hard AI setting) or system link.

Tufty
05-08-2010, 10:54 AM
I think that all un-achievable achievements should unlock, once you unlock all of the achievements that are obtainable.

SnakeIntheboX
05-08-2010, 02:28 PM
EA: "Its in the game!"

until they shut down the servers.............

GR4V1G0R3
05-08-2010, 03:22 PM
how about an almost amicable solution

if the achievement is unattainable, remove it from the list of everyone that doesn't have it, and remove it from the completion %
yes it's wrong for it to gift you Gs, but game completion shouldn't be affected by the server being shut (for people like me who only got a 360 in january)

no company would ever extend the life of it's servers, too many things going on (and they really don't care about us)

let's stop with the EA bashing anyway, they have screwed many things up in the past, the last few years they ahev actually tried to rectify some of those, only to be blown out of the water by activision taking up the dick reigns

if you want to bash anybody, bash them, fuck they won't even pay employee's, how the fuck do you think they will treat us.
now if only kids would stop running out to buy their latest pile of shit stimulus pack or game whatever, seriously, the gaming community needs to learn the meaning of the word boycott (he say's looking at his copy of MW2, the shame returns...)

Capn Doug
05-08-2010, 04:01 PM
I think that all un-achievable achievements should unlock, once you unlock all of the achievements that are obtainable.

See my argument (http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showpost.php?p=3064928&postcount=19) on page 1. I don't feel like repeating it.

EA: "Its in the game!"

until they shut down the servers.............

Says the man who only played his EA games offline and BEFORE the servers shut down. See my argument above about people who are too lazy to get the achievement when they have the chance. Seriously, you couldn't play one online ranked game to get the last 40 points?

how about an almost amicable solution

if the achievement is unattainable, remove it from the list of everyone that doesn't have it, and remove it from the completion %
yes it's wrong for it to gift you Gs, but game completion shouldn't be affected by the server being shut (for people like me who only got a 360 in january)

no company would ever extend the life of it's servers, too many things going on (and they really don't care about us)

let's stop with the EA bashing anyway, they have screwed many things up in the past, the last few years they ahev actually tried to rectify some of those, only to be blown out of the water by activision taking up the dick reigns

if you want to bash anybody, bash them, fuck they won't even pay employee's, how the fuck do you think they will treat us.
now if only kids would stop running out to buy their latest pile of shit stimulus pack or game whatever, seriously, the gaming community needs to learn the meaning of the word boycott (he say's looking at his copy of MW2, the shame returns...)

Now that is an argument I haven't heard before. Not a bad solution actually, but unlikely to be implemented.

And thank you for pointing out Activision. I have been boycotting them since long before it was evident that they were jackasses. About 6 months now, since they told me that they have no plans to do anything with their old Sierra porperties. Guitar Hero didn't help and I don't like Call of Duty. Now if I really want the old Guitar Hero games, I buy them used for dirt cheap, Activision gets none of my money. EA closes servers that have maybe 12 people on them at any one time, Activision sees customer service as an inconvenience to be avoided at all costs.

Cable Player
05-08-2010, 04:10 PM
I have just had a thought that could solve the problem with servers being shut down...

When the Nintendo DS was released, it could play DS games and also GBA games.
Pokemon for the DS could read Pokemon for the GBA if they were both inserted at the same time and you could actually 'migrate' Pokemon from the GBA to the DS. This was a one-way link as the GBA game could not read the DS game.

All these companys need to do is make the newer servers compatable with the new games, and the old games. They shouldn't have to worry about thousands of people clogging up the server from the old game as the reason they wanted to close the server was because barley any people go on it.

My comparison with the DS isn't the best comparison to use, but all the games/servers have to do is be able to read the old ones.

With guitar hero etc, there are so many of those bloody games I think it is silly that you cannot cross-play them.
Personally I think they should just bring out one game good and for all and leave it there, but the amount of games and DLC which is released is pretty rediculous.
I read an article on the highest amount of MP which you could possibly spend on XBL and over 10% of it was for Rock Band.
All they need to do is to be compatable with each other and it could solve a lot of problems.

From what GR4V1G0R3 said about simply removing the achievement from the achievement list, I think this is a good idea. Although people wont be able to get 'the full thousand', they will still be able to get 100%. And if it is made obvous that these achievements are being removed, people won't turn around and say to you 'oh look you dont have 1000 on that game you suck' (in a manner of speaking) as they would know actually, yes you do have every achievement.

L3thal Insanity
05-08-2010, 05:22 PM
Capn is right. It's their decision to shut down games. They have been open for well over a year, sometimes more too. But what ticks me off is games that still have over a thousand players online, like LOTR:Conquest. They shut down that down but not Army of Two, which has NO ONE playing at all, in MP or Co-Op?

ghost10221987
05-18-2010, 07:47 AM
Yeah, it sucks when servers close and we can no longer get the online cheevo's, but what really chaps my hide is when there are glitched achievements THAT WERE NEVER POSSIBLE! Ok, so EA wants to make a Race Week achievement (been playing NFS:Carbon recently, so bear with me) that was only obtainable for a short period of time. At least it was obtainable. What really bothers me is that (and again, I'm not calling out only EA, it's just the example I'm using) is the Urban Wars achievement that was (supposedly) glitched from day one. I can think of a few others, most notably, College Hoops 2K7, the one achievement where you had to break all records. Sounds tedious, until you realize that you can't shoot higher than 100%, then you realize it's simply impossible.

Just my 2 cents.

rustysurfing07
05-18-2010, 07:49 AM
it drives me nuts, expecially the older sports games like NBA 2k6 which i went back to play only to discover i could not get the whole 1000. i think there should be a "back up" way to get them, as to not just hand them out, but still allow for completions.

that said, most companies probably wont waste their time.

JoeyStone
05-18-2010, 10:36 PM
Yeah, I can't really see it happening, but I do think it would be nice to be able to somehow achieve the un-achievable achievements.

NBA Street Homecourt is one that really bugged me. I bought it second hand about a year after release because I liked the first few games on PS2. It was one of the first Xbox 360 games I got. Unfortunately, it clearly wasn't that popular online, and particularly badly supported here in the UK. So, not only did barely anyone play it, those of us that did had to put up with crappy servers that crashed every other game, making even boosting the 10 wins in a row achievement near impossible (or at least, incredible tedious and not in the slightest bit enjoyable). Me not getting that achievement had nothing to do with me being lazy and not getting around to it when I had time, it was due to how badly supported the game was before they decided to close down the servers.

I do like the idea about removing certain achievements from the overall percentage, though. Maybe they could even change how much gamerscore they are worth, so reduce all online achievements for games with closed servers to 0 and add the score onto another one (I'm not sure how easy that would be to implement, but hey, I'm just brainstorming).

marzipanninja
05-25-2010, 12:38 AM
Blatantly untrue. Check you facts before you post garbage. There are many companies that shut down and repurpose their servers. 2K has about the same number of points that are unachievable because of closed down servers, but funny how no one mentions them. It is always big bad evil EA that wants to fuck with your completion rate.

Second, and I don't know how I can say this any clearer than I have in every other thread about this sort of thing: It is not the developer's job to pad your gamerscore and it is not their job to keep servers open indefinitely. Seriously, every game that has had its servers closed down, had its servers open for AT LEAST a year. You had a year, often three or four, to get the achievements, and you couldn't be bothered to do it. EA gives 30 days notice that they are going to shut down a server, and still it is too much effort to go and get the game before it shuts down. I have absolutely no sympathy for anyone who loses a completion possibility because the server is shutting down.

Unlocking achievements automatically? Why not go a step further? If you have a game that has had it's servers shut down, just take a picture of it with your windows phone: 1000 Gs. Hold it up to Natal: 1000 Gs. Achievements are supposed to make you feel like you have achieved something, and sometimes that involves doing something at a specific time. If you really want the achievements after the server has shut down, hack the server, it will give you the same dirty feeling as unlocking the achievement automatically.

If you put off getting the achievement until after the server was shut down or the DLC was delisted, quit complaining. The only person you can blame is yourself, because you put it off for too long.
Dude? Really? I said believe I never attacked EA or questioned their integrity as a company supplying a service.
As a games company i actually like EA they have gotten their shit together recently and stopped being content at shovelling out the same old shit year after year.
I would however say i agree achievements for online setions for games that no longer have servers shouldnt be unlocked automatically but when online is a big draw for a game like LOTR Conquest the price of the game should be dropped dramatically and it should be displayed on the case that this game has no online mode or just completely remove the game from circulation.
2k again as far as im aware have only closed sports game servers which have been updated at a yearly rate but you can still get matchmaking and leaderboard capabilities.
I had been personally hoping we would see an end to games which have needless multiplayer as this gen went on but plenty of companies feel people will buy any game that has MP in bulk, where as its games that have a sustainable enjoyable MP that stand the test of time.
Again at no point am i attacking EA, so please... breath.

scoobymad
05-25-2010, 12:45 AM
Thank's
That explains why I can sit for hours waiting for someone to join my game i've created in the past on older games :eek:

Capn Doug
05-25-2010, 02:28 AM
@marzipanninja
The post was nearly three weeks ago, so I am having to think back to what my mindset was at that point. What I was responding to was your assertion that EA is the only one that closes servers. They are the most famous example because their games are so popular. I don't think I was accusing you of attacking EA as a company, though I was pointing out that there have been many people who have said things like "fuck EA, they shouldn't be allowed to have multiplayer games if they are going to shut down their servers." You did however mention, erroneously, is the only company that closes servers. If you check the Unachievable Achievements thread, you will see a lange number of points from 2K (just shy of 1000 last I checked).

On most of your other points, I am in full agreement, though so far as I know the fact that online is no longer available is factored into the purchase price already. I want an end to useless multiplayer, and an end to horrible multiplayer grinding achievements. But at the same time, some achievements are just a limited time only. Look at 1 vs 100, those are all currently unachievable. At any rate, some achievements have a time limit, online always has that risk since people will stop playing meaning that the company will stop pouring money into maintaining the servers if it is to satisfy the needs of the two remaining Halo 2 Holdouts (I wonder if the people who wanted to stay permenantly connected are still there). It is a fact of the industry, fighting it is like fighting the tide, you may make some progress, but in the end you will lose. Just enjoy the multiplayer while you can.

dakisbac
05-25-2010, 02:59 AM
I'm gonna have to disagree with you here Doug. If the company is not willing to hold up their servers indefinitely then they shouldn't be hosting the game online but should leave it to Microsoft. Or, at the very least, if they are going to host and shut down servers then they should transfer over hosting to Microsoft when that time comes.

The fact that an 8 year old will not be bothered by the achievements is irrelevant, the point remains that if the game advertises online play then there should be online play. That it also screws us out of achievements is just an extra kick in the balls, and I do agree that an update should be released that allows us to unlock them an alternative way (or if they're not willing to do any reprogramming then just unlocking automatically)

Capn Doug
05-25-2010, 05:44 AM
I don't know the details of the agreement between Microsoft and EA, but chances are that for a game with an online community the size of Madden or NHL, there is probably a significant cost involved in allowing Microsoft to host it. That is just idle speculation, though, I don't know the terms. If there was a way to unlock the achievement through alternative means (while still actually achieving something, and with a few exceptions (see my NBA Live 07 1000 people argument)), I would be all for it. Perhaps a P2P thing or something.

However, when you play an old game online (one where a sequel has not been released) how often do you find a matchup? I have a lot of trouble finding a match on Rock Band, Guitar Hero 3, NHL 08 (outside of "primetime") and other old games. How often did you find matches on games before the server was shut down? The only way to find a match most of the time is to get someone off the achievement trading thread. Why should a company be forced to keep the server open in a situation like that? If a store has no customers, should they be forced to remain open until the strip mall closes?

Dance Dance Revolution Universe 3 bugs me way more than NHL 08. At least I had a chance to get the Top 50 achievement on NHL, even if I can't organize the tree to make a Top 50 before the server eventually closes.

TVthePunisher
05-25-2010, 07:34 AM
I truly like the idea of a Player vs. CPU component for games that you can't play online anymore. Even the achievements that you need to get over "ranks" should be covered by simply kicking enough butt in a CPU battle, over...and over...and over. I mean if you're going to do lengthy things to get hard-earned singleplayer achievements, why not do it again for the multiplayer achievements against the computer...or a friend with a controller. Make em local!

Then there's achievements they add to arcade titles, like one, two or three multiplayer achievements...yet you can never find anybody on unless you know somebody with that game (Sonic the Hedgehog 2's achievements for example, I had to play it with a friend for that...same with the first DOOM). Definiately make them available through local multiplayer or against CPU...would it be that difficult to do I wonder?

marzipanninja
05-25-2010, 03:18 PM
Hey Doug sorry for the time delay on my response buddy. Ive just spent the last 17 days cracking out the twelve hours shifts at work and ended on after here after midnight rather as going to bed, just wanted to get the point across that i wasnt anti EA as i said personally i feel theyve taken some big steps in the right direction with their games releases.

Activision firmly my new favourite lazy bastards of the gaming industry!

And we all know theyve got some guy locked in a room trying to work guitar hero into a call of duty Tonk Hawks hybrid.

Capn Doug
05-25-2010, 03:48 PM
No problem, Marzipan. I figured it was something unusual, which is why I played it off as a bit of a joke instead of making a nasty comment. There are definitely some haters out there for EA, though if you are able to make a reasoned argument, chances are you aren't one of them. And yeah, Activision is a pain in the ass, I've been boycotting them since they bought Sierra and shut it down. Seriously, release King's Quest and Quest for Glory for XBLA, you have the rights to it. I still buy Guitar Hero, but it is very used.

sm182
05-25-2010, 05:56 PM
Regarding 2K shutting down it's servers, wasn't that actually a accident (which they didn't attempt to fix though) when they migrated their servers for 2K9? And as a result they said that it wouldn't happen to 2K9+, which would partially explain why you can still play multiplayer on 2K7 & 2K8.

Also am I right in thinking that one of the achievements in Halo 3 was changed? If so then making MP achievements against the CPU wouldn't be out of the scope of reality to implement.

oO CurrY Oo
05-25-2010, 06:10 PM
Imo EA shouldn't be allowed to put MP achievements on there games anymore, if people don't play your MP because its fun you shouldn't force them to with achievements.(obviously not everyone cares about achievements so this doesn't apply to everyone)

Capn Doug
05-25-2010, 06:28 PM
Regarding 2K shutting down it's servers, wasn't that actually a accident (which they didn't attempt to fix though) when they migrated their servers for 2K9? And as a result they said that it wouldn't happen to 2K9+, which would partially explain why you can still play multiplayer on 2K7 & 2K8.

Also am I right in thinking that one of the achievements in Halo 3 was changed? If so then making MP achievements against the CPU wouldn't be out of the scope of reality to implement.

You may be right on both of those points, though Microsoft seems to be the only company that is allowed to break the achievement rules (Lips), so it is no surprise that Halo (after raising the cap) changed one of the criterea. There is a GFWL game that has a 0 point secret achievement that is not attainable because they were told that all GFWL arcade games must have 12 achievements. Microsoft breaks the achievement rules, it is the fact of it, EA is likely under the same rules but can not break them in the same way that Microsoft does.

Imo EA shouldn't be allowed to put MP achievements on there games anymore, if people don't play your MP because its fun you shouldn't force them to with achievements.(obviously not everyone cares about achievements so this doesn't apply to everyone)

Multiplayer is actually one of the biggest selling points of EA Sports games. People play them online or against a local friend way more than they do against the CPU. They are not forced to play multiplayer because of the achievements. What you mentioned is definitely the case with some games, since multiplayer is definitely put in as an afterthought on some games, but EA Sports games are not among them. And no one is forced to do anything to get achievements. Achievement hunting is a choice that we all made after we started playing 360, no one forced us into it, and we should not try to force the developers to cater to us.