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Rowan88
05-17-2010, 10:59 AM
[SPOILERS!!!!!]

I just finished Alan Wake last night and it was fucking amazing!!

But I never really understood the ending.

Did Alan save Alice by making her come out into the light and he stayed in the darkness??? Was that guy at the end you seen in the Diner Dr Hartman.. or Alex Zane or something..

Thanks,

:)

Quickdraw
05-17-2010, 11:38 AM
[SPOILERS!!!!!]

I just finished Alan Wake last night and it was fucking amazing!!

But I never really understood the ending.

Did Alan save Alice by making her come out into the light and he stayed in the darkness??? Was that guy at the end you seen in the Diner Dr Hartman.. or Alex Zane or something..

Thanks,

:)


well from what i can gather time went back to when she went underwater, instead of her being trapped down there he took her place and she was free. anything that happened in the game is prolly a differ timeline now due to him being down in the cabin and alice free. least thats how i try and understand it. the guy in the end is hm well my take is its agent nightingale, looks alot like him.

alan's last few lines that he doesn't say could be on nightmare pages of the manuscript. but as a guess it was prolly something like

"these past 7 days without alice have shown me how much i miss her, i never wanted anything to happen to her, shes my world. i knew that the darkness wanted me and only used alice to get to me, but if i could turn back time to that grave event, i would give myself to the darkness so she would be able to be free."

"in the back of my mind i knew there wouldn't be no happy ending, this could all happen again, with some other writer influenced like i was. Next time we may not have been so lucky."

"with myself written into the story i can continue to hold the darkness at bay by writing more and more to the story, least untill i can figure out how to stop it, my life will still continue as a story."

now im no writer but that could maybe explain it, if not then im still confused as ever on this story lol, but thats my guess.

metallicorphan
05-17-2010, 11:48 AM
yeah i wanna know who that was in the diner behind Rose as well,maybe it was Thomas Zane


if you watch the credits,right at the end like a James Bond movie....it says something like

'Alan Wake will continue his journey through the night'

Remedy have just said that the DLC will not shed any more light on the outcome of Alan Wake...so,perhaps the DLC wont actually star Alan Wake,maybe have it from other peoples perspectives...shame we have to wait until the end of July

Lougy
05-17-2010, 11:50 AM
this game has been so easy to understand all the way through, but i had trouble understanding the ending to,
he talked about balancing the scales so my guess is he swaped places with alice, which after all his work is a bit of a bummer really.

Quickdraw
05-17-2010, 11:56 AM
yeah i wanna know who that was in the diner behind Rose as well,maybe it was Thomas Zane


if you watch the credits,right at the end like a James Bond movie....it says something like

'Alan Wake will continue his journey through the night'

Remedy have just said that the DLC will not shed any more light on the outcome of Alan Wake...so,perhaps the DLC wont actually star Alan Wake,maybe have it from other peoples perspectives...shame we have to wait until the end of July

hmm maybe, altho im not sure theres anyone else id rather wanna play, being barry might be abit annoying lol.

ShotgunGorilla
05-17-2010, 12:05 PM
my guess is that when he says its not a lake its an ocean means that he becomes god in a sense, meaning he can write anything and everything in and out of exsistance anywhere in the world, and if not something along those lines he writes what Mr Scratch does and how he lives his life. only a guess.

jgahagan
05-17-2010, 12:23 PM
or Alex Zane or something..

I'd be a bit worried if it was that douchebag.

Le Vampyr †™
05-17-2010, 02:15 PM
hmm maybe, altho im not sure theres anyone else id rather wanna play, being barry might be abit annoying lol.

If we were to play as anyone else I think it would make sense that the DLC was based around Agent Nightingale on his mission after Wake. They have much to build a story around with this character, especially with all the extra stuff of his featured in the Alan Wake files that comes with the limited edition.

misterdohl
05-17-2010, 02:58 PM
just my opinion on the game ending:
he swaps himself with alice, and when writing "its not a lake, its an ocean", he makes the lake into an ocean, which takes all of bright falls along with it.
At the end, Alice says "Alan, wake up...". I think Alan wrote something like "and then Alice said "Alan, wake up...", and so he did"...

Quickdraw
05-17-2010, 03:09 PM
If we were to play as anyone else I think it would make sense that the DLC was based around Agent Nightingale on his mission after Wake. They have much to build a story around with this character, especially with all the extra stuff of his featured in the Alan Wake files that comes with the limited edition.

hmm that could work actually if any of the 2 writer is prolly the one for him, if it happens. need to watch that sometime w8ing till i can get my pc mon hooked back up so i can look on the web and still play gotta get it done by thurs when i get red dead.

if that was right the writer, well if it doesn't have alan could be him since everytmie he sore alan he named him as being another writer. prolly explain why hes chasing him in the first place abit better or more backstory

N3xus Gam3r
05-17-2010, 03:55 PM
I think the "The Writer" DLC will feature Jake from the Bright Falls series, he was a kind of a writer right?

F Swan
05-17-2010, 04:15 PM
The guy in the diner I thought was either the Doctor or in fact Alan Wake, as during the ending there are 2 Wakes looking at each other, doesn't the voice over say "don't worry about him, he'll go back ... " Which could mean go back to the real world to replace him?

Quickdraw
05-17-2010, 04:23 PM
I think the "The Writer" DLC will feature Jake from the Bright Falls series, he was a kind of a writer right?

Hmm maybe, but i don't see how his story can be extended anymore really, it ended in a good spot, i don't see why they would revive that. jake is a journalist so he writes articles for a living so yeah in a way.


The guy in the diner I thought was either the Doctor or in fact Alan Wake, as during the ending there are 2 Wakes looking at each other, doesn't the voice over say "don't worry about him, he'll go back ... " Which could mean go back to the real world to replace him?

didn't look like wake to me, but i could be mistaken, the other wake will be written in, but the real alan is going to be in the cabin still writing. so alan 2 is going to take over whereever alan 1 writes him into it, to write a character on yourself and your life, surely people wont know the difference and it can go how he wants it within parameters otherwise the story could just go nuts.

Darth Leto II
05-17-2010, 10:14 PM
The writer in the bar, to me, looked like Agent Nightingale.

metallicorphan
05-17-2010, 11:32 PM
The writer in the bar, to me, looked like Agent Nightingale.

yeah someone on Xbox.com said the same thing so i was gonna post it here...it wasn't until they said Agent Nightingale that i cast my mind back and thought...'hmm,yeah it could be him'


i took this screen capture while watching the end on Youtube,sorry for it not being mega clear as the camera pulls away straight after this

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/metallicorphan/ala.jpg

Quickdraw
05-17-2010, 11:48 PM
as i said above its nightingale after looking between the 2 pics i have im certain, i dont get however why hes inside, mean such a lovely day should be outside.

metallicorphan
05-17-2010, 11:53 PM
as i said above its nightingale after looking between the 2 pics i have im certain, i dont get however why hes inside, mean such a lovely day should be outside.


his name may give you a clue :p

Quickdraw
05-17-2010, 11:57 PM
well hes no bundle of sunshine, unless hes still a carrier for darkness, but i thought it would have all reverted back to b4 the island went down, meaning hes just a drunken moody fbi agent.

i didn't notice untill my second playthrough how many different writers names he says the first time i clocked on was the h p lovecraft one or something along the line of that, after that i checked all the names he called and ofc all writers, but why does he refer to alan as them out of intrest?, or is it just some funny thing they put in?

Crimson Ridley
05-18-2010, 12:12 AM
I believe he calls Alan by many authors names just to mock Alan.

The ending confused me too, just like the ending to Lost: Via Domus.

Hopefully, Remedy will eventually explain the ending to us, why Nightingale still has Dark Presence around him, and what happens to Alice next.

The line that got me was "It's not a lake... it's an ocean". What does that mean? Is it a metaphor? I know Sarah said that Alan's books were great, if a little heavy on the metaphors, so it may well be.

And I wonder if what Tom Zane said in the beginning has anything to do with the ending. The part where he says something about an ocean and then "To its ports I've been. To its ports I've been". He emphasises the ports, why? What are these ports?

jgahagan
05-18-2010, 12:19 AM
i didn't notice untill my second playthrough how many different writers names he says the first time i clocked on was the h p lovecraft one or something along the line of that, after that i checked all the names he called and ofc all writers, but why does he refer to alan as them out of intrest?, or is it just some funny thing they put in?

God, I found those 'nicknames' so annoying. They got old, real fast.

Hemmingway, Dan Brown, Raymond Chandler, Brett Easton Ellis and of course Stephen King to name a few! Enough Nightingale!

Quickdraw
05-18-2010, 12:31 AM
found this on a forums elsewhere seems rather logical to me.

Everything requires a balance.
Alan is in fact the product of Zane's writings.
You see, Zane knew that he was too weak to kill the darkness, so he wrote that Alan would come and kill the darkness. To help him, he cut out the heart of the evil so Alan could kill it later.
Anyway, to prevent that Alan would be evil, like his returned love, Zane had to create a evil copy of Alan.
The Ocean quote means that Alan discovers that the power behind the darkness are much bigger than expected, and it's neither good or evil, it all depends on the one using it.
That Rose is the new lamplady is simple a backup in case somebody would use the power in evil ways in the future.
And a good ending means that everybody that died by the darkness never died at all, they probably created a paradox where Zane never wrote his loved wife back again which means the darkness never came in the first place.

Sounds ok on afew key points others im not so sure on

jgahagan
05-18-2010, 12:47 AM
The lake/ocean quote makes sense but it's largely down to interpretation and I sure as hell didn't interpret the majority of that quote. I'm really hoping it becomes clearer after my second play-through.

Has anyone read the 'Alan Wake Files' book that comes with the LE? It's supposed to clear up some things, not sure what though...

Quickdraw
05-18-2010, 12:59 AM
The lake/ocean quote makes sense but it's largely down to interpretation and I sure as hell didn't interpret the majority of that quote. I'm really hoping it becomes clearer after my second play-through.

Has anyone read the 'Alan Wake Files' book that comes with the LE? It's supposed to clear up some things, not sure what though...

gunna try read it tomorrow while i w8 for a delivery should be a good read. also i was looking on the alan wake forums and found a really good post from a guy called mortim, rather insightful. highlighted below see what you think for me this is really spot on.

True to the Psychological Thriller genre, the real beauty in the story is not knowing what is real and what isn't. I reckon there are a number of key 'balance points' in the plot where you have to decide which is true and which isn't.

1. Thomas Zane / Alan Wake - Real or construct?
Alan learns about Thomas from the first moment he steps into the cabin, and supporting characters continue to reveal more information about him. Alan learns that Thomas was in the same situation previously, but supposedly messed up and lost everything (both his girl and his life).

However, Thomas supposedly wrote Alan into the ending of his own story as a safeguard. He knew the 'Darkness' would find a replacement eventually, and so he effectively 'chose' this person and provided them the tool necessary to carry it out.

Of course this means:

Option A - That the Thomas Zane in the game is a construct.
Alan learnt about Thomas, a very real person, and wrote his 'survival' into his own story. Throughout the game this constructed character guides him to his destination. Alan constructs a ploy where Thomas had reasoned his demise would leave the 'Darkness' free to pick another victim, so wrote about Thomas having written him the idea of the Clicker all those years ago.

Option B - That the Alan Wake throughout the game is a construct.
Thomas knew he had no chance of defeating the Darkness, and like Wake managed to work out its ploy prior to finishing the story. After hashing everything up by trying to bend/break the rules of good storytelling (tsk tsk), he writes himself out of history and puts into play a final character as his closing words, implying in the discovered manuscript pages that Alan Wake boils down to two things: An accomplished writer, and in posession of an all-powerful plot device (the Clicker). Alan Wake is therefore the 'to be continued' note on Thomas Zane's story, and is actually a construct. As Alan falls within the realm of Thomas' creation, it's only a matter of time and a suitably believable plot device (his writers block) that would believably bring him to Bright Falls.

Option C - That both Zane and Wake as portrayed in the game are very real.
Both options A and B are real. Unbeknownst to Alan, his stature as writer and his posession of the Clicker are both written into a story by Zane years before, his appearance at Bright Falls a natural occurence given the storytelling rules (Rule 46: Never establish a mysterious character in your final pages if they're not going to show up and wreak havoc at a later date). Wake uses the similar ability to conjure up the concept of Thomas Zane in an ironical twist (Wake helps Zane in the future, Zane helps Wake in the past).


2. He's Mr Scratch.

Plot is everything, and as the genre is most definitively a psychological thriller, there are no obvious happy endings and no simple answers. Wake realises that to save his wife, he likely has to give up something of himself for it to be 'acceptable' as far as the story is concerned. Thomas Zane tried to get Barbara Jagger back without any consequences and was left with a heartless tool of the Darkness.

Thomas wrote himself out of the role of main protagonist, erasing himself from history, but still had the presence of mind to ensure that help awaited whoever would next fall into the trap (Options B/C above). Wake realises that there's simply no way to put an end to the Darkness and free Alice, as this would result in that conflicting happy ending. He could potentially choose to kill the Darkness and lose his wife, but elects to keep it at bay whilst she is freed. The closest he can come to a fitting end for her is to provide her with a construct of his own, an identical copy of himself.

Alice surfaces in the lake almost immeadiately (it was night when she entered, but daytime now). It's likely that she remembers only what Wake suggests is fitting. Her voice at the end I believe is her talking to Mr. Scratch. His actions are now Alan's to command, unless he has managed to close off any further developments with Alice in the plot.


3. It's not a lake. It's an ocean.

I took this at face value, meaning that the scale of what's been covered in the game so far is little in comparison to the bigger picture. Alan is now trapped and writing a psychological thriller that he knows will impact on real lives, but must be kept true to form. The Darkness is stuck with him for the time being, and knows that Alan has little left at stake for him to be tempted or threatened with now that Alice is free and a Mr Scratch is by her side with Wake literally at the controls.

Barbara Jagger is still very much free and clearly has power still. The next action may be targeted directly against Alans wife, or Mr Scratch in an effort to drive Wake back into the thick of the action, freeing up the spot for another writer to provide a more fitting ending.

Perhaps Alan has walked into a trap, realising that he must continue writing a story that could inevitably escalate to far worse horrors than already encountered?

It's also plausible that this concept of narrative having physical power has become apparent to Alan, and he reaslises that all of the plot so far is the work of a much greater author, who's next shocking twist is to grant his main character self-awareness. Maybe if this overarching plot was something other than a book, like a game perhaps?

Needless to say I think the final comment is about depth of perception, rather than physical locations or the nature of the lake itself.

jgahagan
05-18-2010, 01:30 AM
It's a very well written interpretation and I think that I can agree with most of the points he made but it just feels like it's missing something. For instance, before Alan writes the ending and Alice is freed and the whole "Alan, wake up" line is said, we see a brief shot of Alan waking up. The very same shot that is used for when he wakes up after the car crash a week after Alice disappeared. I can only assume that because we are shown Deerfest ocurring in the end cinematic that Alice is brought back at that very point in time as well?

Does it mean that Alan is in fact Thomas Zane and he is re-writing the manuscript and the ending by adding Mr. Scratch (his copy) and we proceed to play out the rest of the story from the car crash and onwards in order to change the outcome? It all made sense in my head but it is late so I'll try and re-explain tomorrow.

Ozbaab
05-18-2010, 02:00 AM
Very very interesting indeed! I'm glad I got the Alan Wake Files included in the LE, getting into that now!

WarGod3
05-18-2010, 02:30 AM
Very very interesting indeed! I'm glad I got the Alan Wake Files included in the LE, getting into that now!
whats the Alan Wake Files? dident think the DLC is out yet?

Ozbaab
05-18-2010, 02:53 AM
It's no DLC, it's a book that came with the Limited Collector's Ed. It's pure fiction, written by some guy visiting Bright Falls after the game events. Writs alot about Nightingale and other characters!

N3xus Gam3r
05-18-2010, 04:33 AM
It's no DLC, it's a book that came with the Limited Collector's Ed. It's pure fiction, written by some guy visiting Bright Falls after the game events. Writs alot about Nightingale and other characters! its before and when it happends ;)

Quickdraw
05-18-2010, 10:21 AM
whats the Alan Wake Files? dident think the DLC is out yet?

i read half of it this morning upto the story sections after that it didn't seem to tie in alot. i also found in the book when sheriff breaker was asked about agent nightingales wheresabouts she simply turned around and wished me luck. there was another mention in his notes about him loosing a partner which caused him to become unstable ill write the lines when i have abit more time just nipping on atm

3-4 days in his notes get alot odder, b4 this his notes seem more on topic less straying away, gunna type out the full notes incase i miss something out.

Day Four
Didn't sleep a wink, scanner just got weirder through the night.

Wake is one elusive bugger, is he holding up the whole house of cards?. whatll happen when i pull?

Wish i could be sure but to decide is to decide have to do what's necessary when the time comes.

Feels like i'm alone in the wilderness here.

Day Four Afternoon

A partner isnt like a co-worker, or a friend, or even a brother. he's your other wife. He keeps you on the dead straight, calls you on everything the others let slide, and he has your back when the shooting starts. Thats where i failed finn, even when everything gone dark. When the craziness back east started, he couldn't explain it either. that's when he needed me most. but i blew it.

I have to make it right.

Day Four, Night

Hartman seems to be the big man on the campus, very protective of his patients.

Skimmed through hit self help book - what a load, he's got a sweet little packet going at the "lodge". Gut tells me he's involed in all this somehow.

Going for a drive. Can't think in here. am i going down like finn?

not if i shoot first.

Night much later

Sounds are getting weirder all the time. somthing happening just out of town, out by some farm. flashes of light, too could be kids with firecrackers getting edgy and starting a barn fire.

Probalbly ought to get some batteries for this stupid flashlight if there's time.

Will i have it in me to do what's necessary when the time comes?

also at the back of the book there was a letter sent in to the fbi about nightingale, he was dischared 13months ago after the death of his partner, his reasons for being in bright falls were his own as he was no longer with the fbi at this time. b4 this happened he was a solid fbi agent, something must have happened to cause this mental lapse into insanity, the way his partner died maybe?. fbi don't know where he is either aswell.

jgahagan
05-18-2010, 12:15 PM
also at the back of the book there was a letter sent in to the fbi about nightingale, he was dischared 13months ago after the death of his partner, his reasons for being in bright falls were his own as he was no longer with the fbi at this time. b4 this happened he was a solid fbi agent, something must have happened to cause this mental lapse into insanity, the way his partner died maybe?. fbi don't know where he is either aswell.

The more I read, the more it sounds like an episode of LOST. You get more questions than answers! I also keep hearing that the DLC, in some peoples eyes, is the 'true' ending. Should be interesting then.

Damn Playa
05-18-2010, 12:41 PM
The balance Alan refers to is saving himself and Alice from the darkness, but not killing the darkness. It lives on through Rose and whoevers on that typerwriter (I initially thought, "OH MAN, It's Nightingale!", but when you go to the motels and find his room, don't you kill him?)

Crimson Ridley
05-18-2010, 12:53 PM
The balance Alan refers to is saving himself and Alice from the darkness, but not killing the darkness. It lives on through Rose and whoevers on that typerwriter (I initially thought, "OH MAN, It's Nightingale!", but when you go to the motels and find his room, don't you kill him?)

I didn't, I went to his room and Alan just said something like; "This has to have been the room Nightingale was staying in."

Ozbaab
05-18-2010, 02:25 PM
The more I read, the more it sounds like an episode of LOST. You get more questions than answers! I also keep hearing that the DLC, in some peoples eyes, is the 'true' ending. Should be interesting then.

Yes, don't you just love it? :o
Hmm, yes very interesting, we'll see in about 2 weeks

metallicorphan
05-18-2010, 04:20 PM
Rose of course is the new lamp lady(you see her holding a lantern in broad day light at the end)

i am more interested in what happened to Barry and Sarah(the cop)...do they now not have memory of what happened because theoretically everything didn't happen?..and if so then how and why is Agent Nightingale there(if all it didn't happen,then he wouldn't of been called to investigate..right?)

is Dr Hartman and all the other people who were 'Taken' back now,living normally?

The Writer DLC i am thinking will not be about Alan Wake but will show what happened in the 70s with Thomas Zane(i hope so anyway)

no idea what The Signal DLC could be

and the first DLC,is not due until the end of July...so it wont be in two weeks,more like 8-9 weeks

krab3k
05-18-2010, 07:38 PM
Just finished my first run through about 10mins ago........woah!!!

Reminds me a lot like Donnie Darko........you know you understand it, you're sure you've got everything sorted and then *BAM* last 10mins blow everything you understood into oblivion leaving you dazed and confused lol

MightyMouseMike
05-18-2010, 09:32 PM
It felt like to me that he changed places as other have said. Now this in my opinion is for the DLC or a 2nd game to come out at a future time.

LarZieJ
05-18-2010, 10:28 PM
I support the schizophrenic theory, and I think Alan is the character Tom Zane forms as his imaginary second identity to come over some sort of shock he has gone through in his real life (I assume it's the death of his wife due to a traffic accident he was responsible for).

The accident happened, and Tom is responsible for the death of his wife. And through Alan, he tries to make sense of it, to overcome his feelings of guilt. He sets Alan up after an accident as well, and twists the story so Alan is the good guy who is trying to save his imaginary Alice by sacrificing himself in the end, putting him into the brave and honorable position instead the one of guilt.

That's why Tom's also there to help Alan in key points of his journey. He needs Alan to be successful. Under no circumstances can his second schizophrenic identity fail to save his wife as well, just as he failed. Alan MUST save Alice, it's made clear throughout the story again and again that this is top priority. Saving Alice is the single most important goal, everything Alan does is focused on that, everything else is secondary. Tom couldn't stand it if Alan, the character he makes up in his mind as his second ego to save his wife, would fail as well. Thus the "to it's ports I've been"-reference in the beginning.

I think the only "real" moment is the one in Hartman's clinic. Hartman tries to convince Tom that everything is made up in his mind, nothing is real. But Hartman also knows that Tom's only chance to live with his guilt is through his second identity Alan. He knows Tom must bring this situation to a good end with Alan to get healthy again, so he supports his writing. We can see Tom in his room/cell through TVs on various occasions in the game, and it's clear that he's having mental problems, that he's going crazy.

Also, besides Dr. Hartman, Odin and Tor are the only two guys who exist in both worlds: the reality in the clinic, and in his made up story in the diner, where they also refer to Alan as "Tom". They know his true identity, they are real!

In the clinic scene, Dr. Hartman also notes quite often that he knows that Tom is not ready to accept this reality, because the story isn't brought to an end yet. And that's how it is, and that's why after returning to his room, Tom makes up Alan's escape from this cruel reality he faced for a while, letting him return to his imaginary world, killing Hartman on the way out, who he clearly thinks of as the "evil guy" who keeps him hostage and confronts him with a reality he is not yet ready to accept.

Last edited by melb00m; Today at 10:41 AM.

i read this at the alan wake forum about theories of the ending , and this got my attention.

also when you play the tutorial you play the dream you also read in the alan wake files, at the very beginning of the book.

when he enters Night Fall,

lol also compare night fall to bright spring XD

confusing confusing

Quickdraw
05-19-2010, 01:07 AM
Rose of course is the new lamp lady(you see her holding a lantern in broad day light at the end)

i am more interested in what happened to Barry and Sarah(the cop)...do they now not have memory of what happened because theoretically everything didn't happen?..and if so then how and why is Agent Nightingale there(if all it didn't happen,then he wouldn't of been called to investigate..right?)

is Dr Hartman and all the other people who were 'Taken' back now,living normally?

The Writer DLC i am thinking will not be about Alan Wake but will show what happened in the 70s with Thomas Zane(i hope so anyway)

no idea what The Signal DLC could be

and the first DLC,is not due until the end of July...so it wont be in two weeks,more like 8-9 weeks

im not sure if they rememebr or not the writer of the coll ed book on the note regarding her when the guy asked about agent nightingale the comment was "she turned around and wished me luck, our interview at a end"

so i could be wrong but it sounds like she remembers. during the ending cinematic is there anyone barring nightingale we see die or become taken that reppear at the end, cause then that would imply it still happened.

Ashapola
05-19-2010, 12:54 PM
About the Zane/Wake thing. Does anyone think it could be possible for them to be father and son?

In the well lit room when you find the clicker. In the flashback I think that it says that Wake never knew his father so anything from him was looked upon in mythical proportions (or something like that). You dont really find out any of Zanes backstory so it could be that it was something that happened before he met his wife, which is how he would known about wake so he wrote the clicker into the story to give him a fighting chance. But then this must mean maybe only Zanes bloodline can hold off the darkness because you learn of no other incidences of the darkness since the one with Zane. Surely the town would have had its share of writers over the years between them so why not get them doing it.


no idea what The Signal DLC could be



For The Signal DLC i was thinking that it would have something to do with the telephone calls Barry makes in the police station. All them calls he makes to people on the list given to him by Sarah with the NightSprings code word

Lady Elysium
05-19-2010, 01:32 PM
I honestly do not know how to feel about that ending. Everything was making sense up until the last few minutes and I feel slightly.. disappointed by it.

Baihu1983
05-19-2010, 02:35 PM
Only thing i was sure on was that it was Nightingale in the background.


What ever the ending means i look forward to more AW be it DLC or AW2

JustAFriend
05-19-2010, 03:40 PM
sounds like nightingale wants to use the typewriter or wake to write his friend back into the story, because he died because of himself. Just like hartman wanted to use the typewriter to make the world a better place, i think the dlc will defo be about nightingale. Thanks for posting the notes form the book, good to have a bit more story on the game.

Quickdraw
05-19-2010, 03:57 PM
sounds like nightingale wants to use the typewriter or wake to write his friend back into the story, because he died because of himself. Just like hartman wanted to use the typewriter to make the world a better place, i think the dlc will defo be about nightingale. Thanks for posting the notes form the book, good to have a bit more story on the game.

hmm he could try that i guess, but if he trys to attempt that surely, a non exp writer would not make a stable story and make things worse maybe?, as from my understanding it still needs to flow together to some degree.

hmm thats a good point about signal, it doesn't explain what happens to them people its very true it could do.

FR MATTUU
05-19-2010, 06:29 PM
i herd the nightmare difficulty has a different ending or extended one. anyone that has beat nightmare want to shed some light on this

metallicorphan
05-19-2010, 10:07 PM
i herd the nightmare difficulty has a different ending or extended one. anyone that has beat nightmare want to shed some light on this

well i got the same ending

Hiryu
05-19-2010, 11:37 PM
i herd the nightmare difficulty has a different ending or extended one. anyone that has beat nightmare want to shed some light on this

i not through yet , but i already read some posts that there is no different ending.

Anyways:
Great to see you guys writing to get some light onto the confusion at the end of the game... this topic helped a lot ^^

hopesfall2win
05-21-2010, 02:07 AM
I honestly do not know how to feel about that ending. Everything was making sense up until the last few minutes and I feel slightly.. disappointed by it.

No reason to, the whole game was basically foreshadowing the ending..once I realized that it made more sense. The tv show alan watches in his apartment, episode 6, where he's being interviewed about why he killed the main character..pretty much explains the ending. Even other times when Alan is talking out loud he says "the main character has to die in horror stories" or something to that affect.

xhunterrrr
05-21-2010, 11:02 PM
Glad to know I am not the only one confused as hell by the ending. I had everything figured out (I thought) til the end. Talk about a mindfuck. I definitely agree that it is Nightingale in the window at the end and that Rose is the new Lamp Lady/Lady of the Night. I also agree that Alan "sacrificed" himself to save Alice.

Things I am not clear on:
Mr. Scratch
Alan still typing and the "It is not a lake, it is an ocean." "Alan, wake up." bits.
Why Nightingale is being all creepy in the window.

The whole Thomas Zane wrote a story that had Alan Wake in it stuff is one giant mindfuck.

Ardocc
05-22-2010, 11:46 AM
Glad to know I am not the only one confused as hell by the ending. I had everything figured out (I thought) til the end. Talk about a mindfuck. I definitely agree that it is Nightingale in the window at the end and that Rose is the new Lamp Lady/Lady of the Night. I also agree that Alan "sacrificed" himself to save Alice.

Things I am not clear on:
Mr. Scratch
Alan still typing and the "It is not a lake, it is an ocean." "Alan, wake up." bits.
Why Nightingale is being all creepy in the window.

The whole Thomas Zane wrote a story that had Alan Wake in it stuff is one giant mindfuck.

Lamp Lady.. Does that refer to the new, evil character? The one the darkness controls? Cause I thought Cyntia Weaver was the Lamp Lady, and she's a friendly character. Seeing Rose with a lamp kinda makes her a friendly fella since she.. carries a lamp, the vanisher of darkness. But seing her in a sinister shot with Agent Nightingale in the background makes her look kinda evil.. hrm.

xhunterrrr
05-22-2010, 01:45 PM
Lamp Lady.. Does that refer to the new, evil character? The one the darkness controls? Cause I thought Cyntia Weaver was the Lamp Lady, and she's a friendly character. Seeing Rose with a lamp kinda makes her a friendly fella since she.. carries a lamp, the vanisher of darkness. But seing her in a sinister shot with Agent Nightingale in the background makes her look kinda evil.. hrm.

I definitely agree the shot was rather sinister. But she was holding the lamp in broad daylight.

metallicorphan
05-22-2010, 02:05 PM
I definitely agree the shot was rather sinister. But she was holding the lamp in broad daylight.

FWIW i think Cynthia held a lamp wherever she went also,i think she has one in her hands at the beginning of the game in the diner,where its daytime...can't remember if she had one in her hands when she appeared in the Police Station telling them to change their lightbulbs

Ardocc
05-22-2010, 04:59 PM
FWIW i think Cynthia held a lamp wherever she went also,i think she has one in her hands at the beginning of the game in the diner,where its daytime...can't remember if she had one in her hands when she appeared in the Police Station telling them to change their lightbulbs

I think she always had her lamp with her :) Some sort of security device. You never know when day suddenly turns to night!


I haven't read this entire thread, but can someone please riddle me this?
How could the kidnapper have Alice's drivers license? Since she was never kidnapped. Nor could they have gotten it from a break-in in house they were staying in since.. well, the island kinda didn't exist.

ClubStew
05-22-2010, 06:46 PM
I think the "The Writer" DLC will feature Jake from the Bright Falls series, he was a kind of a writer right?
Jake was a reporter. Reporters can't write decently enough to even form a proper paragraph.

"The Writer" will likely either feature Alan or possibly even Thomas Zane. They wrote each other into their own stories, so in a sense Thomas Zane still exists.

And as for the figure in the diner behind Rose? Looked like Nightengale to me.

Battosai343
05-22-2010, 06:48 PM
My brain hurts.

A ZombieTwinkie
05-22-2010, 07:32 PM
Gaah... I'm so confused!


But it's a good kind of confused. Glad they left it like they did, and some of the ideas that you all are comin up with are pretty good. Hopefully we'll see what it's all about before too long.

Grimlord Nikon
05-22-2010, 08:25 PM
just before Alice climes up from the lake in the end u will notice that from the time she droped in the lake about 2 weeks has gone by u can see it on how manny times the sun passes on the sky

and in the Allan wake files the aurtor of the book writes that alot of peapole in Bright falls a in mourning, having lost a mother or farther husbond or wife

BurningCropsy
05-22-2010, 11:22 PM
My take on Nightingale being in the window was that Rose has become the new Lamplady and Nightingale has become the new avatar for the Darkness, as the Barbara Jagger avatar had been destroyed by Alan.

Ardocc
05-23-2010, 07:40 AM
My memory at the moment is a bit cloudy, but.. Why would you need a new lamplady? I can't really remember that the original "LL" Cynthia Weaver vanished into thin air. Sure, her "duty" was fulfilled as she gave Alan the clicker, but still.. I don't think she passed over the lamp, closed down the powerplant and retired in Las Vegas, making her living on slot machines :)

BurningCropsy
05-23-2010, 09:42 PM
If I remember correctly, Cynthia had mentioned how she didn't want to do it anymore. Remember, Thomas Zane isn't the storyteller anymore. Alan may have wrote Cynthia out, as the Lamplady, and wrote in Rose. Rose would be to Alan what Cynthia was to Zane, after all.

Ardocc
05-24-2010, 08:55 AM
If I remember correctly, Cynthia had mentioned how she didn't want to do it anymore. Remember, Thomas Zane isn't the storyteller anymore. Alan may have wrote Cynthia out, as the Lamplady, and wrote in Rose. Rose would be to Alan what Cynthia was to Zane, after all.

Makes sense. And talking about THIS game, that's saying alot! Hehe.
And yeah, I thought aswell that Cynthia's role in this adventure had been played out. We'll see..

This DLC can't come quick enough.


Edit: Wow, I actually didn't realize this until now, just finished playing on nightmare. Since I use subitles I missed that it's not Mr Scratch, but Mr *scratching noise*.

shizomac
05-24-2010, 06:50 PM
Just my two cents, but if you watch closely in the ending, when it shows Rose and Nightingale, as it zooms into Nightingale, you begin to hear the typing, and if you really stare at Nightingale, it seems as if he is typing as well (his facial expression looks as if hes amazed by the typewriter's ability--so maybe he/darkness are in cohorts to bring his dead friend back?) and then it shifts to Wake typing.. i dont know.. just seems as if Nightingale is typing as well.

Chuppernicus
05-24-2010, 11:53 PM
Interesting theories.
A few of my thoughts having just finished the game:

Going into the final episode I thought for sure that Thomas Zane and Alan were either one and the same somehow or father and son. This thought was based off two things: the fact that the crazy rockers, Odin and Tor(was that his name?means Thor) kept calling Alan "Tom" and Zane's final page about Alan not knowing his father.

I took the "ocean" comment as a metaphor as well. Alan did sacrifice himself to save his wife and balance the scales but then realized that the darkness he fought was only a small portion of what's out there. He's down with the darkness writing his tale. I don't have the Collectors ed but I also assumed that Nightingale had fought or struggled with the darkness before. Seems that there is evidence to support that theory as well.

Not sure about the character in the window. I thought it was meant to be Alan Wake and how he was now writing the story of these peoples lives? It could be Nightingale. I just thought his face was wider.

Great game, I dont need to know all the answers. Reminds me of Donnie Darko for sure.

Frost FI
05-25-2010, 12:10 AM
Alan Wake is the only writer right now or am I totally wrong? That's a good start.

Chuppernicus
05-25-2010, 12:17 AM
Alan Wake is the only writer right now or am I totally wrong? That's a good start.

That's my guess.

Noob Assassin13
05-25-2010, 02:27 AM
Here's my two cents:

1. The person in the window is Nightengale and he's become a Taken, but only to the extent that Rose was.

2. I took the ocean quote in this way: he realizes that his power is not only limited to the lake. If he writes certain things in a certain way, he can change the outcome of the world, and not just Bright Falls. And you can hear the darkness' undertone when he says this, meaning he may have been corrupted while writing the rest.

shizomac
05-25-2010, 07:09 AM
Here's my two cents:

1. The person in the window is Nightengale and he's become a Taken, but only to the extent that Rose was.

2. I took the ocean quote in this way: he realizes that his power is not only limited to the lake. If he writes certain things in a certain way, he can change the outcome of the world, and not just Bright Falls. And you can hear the darkness' undertone when he says this, meaning he may have been corrupted while writing the rest. Yeah, I can see that the Darkness wins in the end... cause it has Alan Wake down in the lake, typing away, then Rose, who becomes the "lady of the light" is still corrupt with the darkness from her encounter with Jagger (her eyes are all twitchy and whatnot in the ending). And Nightingale just became a Taken, but since he has such a backstory and hes so unstable and under psychological grief, maybe the darkness looks to have Wake write something for him.

But what I dont get, is towards the end before you face the Tornado, theres two Wakes, and Tom says something along the lines of dont worry, this Alan Wake will take your place... what does that mean? And what becomes of Sarah and Barry?

RevyLover
05-25-2010, 01:29 PM
Interesting theories.
A few of my thoughts having just finished the game:

Going into the final episode I thought for sure that Thomas Zane and Alan were either one and the same somehow or father and son. This thought was based off two things: the fact that the crazy rockers, Odin and Tor(was that his name?means Thor) kept calling Alan "Tom" and Zane's final page about Alan not knowing his father.

I believe that Alan is in fact Tom for not only the reasons that you stated, but one nagging moment that made me think that. This nagging moment is when Alan starts to experience the flashback of Tom cutting out Barbara's heart. In that instance you hear Tom's voice changing into that of Alan's. Don't you find it odd that Alan's voice would sudden replace Tom's in Tom's own memory. Could it be that Alan is in fact Tom and is relieving his own past mistake? There are a couple of other factors that lead me to believe that Alan is in fact just another version of Tom, but that one example, plus the ones you previously mention are the more notable ones for me.

Nlkuysdf
05-25-2010, 01:36 PM
I believe that Alan is in fact Tom for not only the reasons that you stated, but one nagging moment that made me think that. This nagging moment is when Alan starts to experience the flashback of Tom cutting out Barbara's heart. In that instance you hear Tom's voice changing into that of Alan's. Don't you find it odd that Alan's voice would sudden replace Tom's in Tom's own memory. Could it be that Alan is in fact Tom and is relieving his own past mistake? There are a couple of other factors that lead me to believe that Alan is in fact just another version of Tom, but that one example, plus the ones you previously mention are the more notable ones for me.

When did you see a flashback of Tom cutting out Barbara's heart?

Deathr0t
05-25-2010, 04:30 PM
just my opinion on the game ending:
he swaps himself with alice, and when writing "its not a lake, its an ocean", he makes the lake into an ocean, which takes all of bright falls along with it.
At the end, Alice says "Alan, wake up...". I think Alan wrote something like "and then Alice said "Alan, wake up...", and so he did"...

I think thats it... BUT....

What is with Mr.Scratch? isn't a "scratch" some term used in literacy, like a term that holds a specific meaning for authors, not just to "scratch" something out, but for a purpose of character replacement? I dunno I am still confused...

And the "Light" was a guy in a vintage diving suit? that was out of no where...Unless that was the other author, i think his name was Thompson? don't remember.

And whats with the 3 dashes..... - - - at the end? Is that just to confuse you more?

The only thing that pisses me off is that it makes it seems like hes either A) Dead or B) Wont be staring in the sequel because hes trapped?

Ardocc
05-25-2010, 08:30 PM
I think thats it... BUT....

What is with Mr.Scratch? isn't a "scratch" some term used in literacy, like a term that holds a specific meaning for authors, not just to "scratch" something out, but for a purpose of character replacement? I dunno I am still confused...

The way I experienced it (as stated in some other thread) is that it's really not "Mr Scratch" alltho the subtitles say so.

It's actually "Mr -scratching noise-". Dunno, his name could be anything.
And what's said about this Mr Scratch is that "your friends will meet him when you are gone". So mine and others theory is that you'll be playing as this doppelganger in the upcoming episode/episodes.

MasterWolf
05-27-2010, 12:22 PM
Some points:

1. I do not think that Rose is the new lamp lady. Because the only two people that were "saved by Tom" were Cynthia and Alan. They will always be tainted, plus Rose is not shown after the trailer pack until the end. She still seems sort of controlled or influenced by the darkness.

2. I sort of support the schizophrenic theory but that does not explain alot of stuff. Like the tvs, the tvs do not show Alan in his room at Dr. Hartman's lodge. Its the Cabin, just look at the deer head on the wall. Plus it has two windows that are circles, like the cabin.

3. It is unlikely that Tom and Alan are related because then Barbara would have been Alan's mother. And that's not possible because then Alan would have recognized Barbara immediately at the diner.

4. Alan Did not die because he still kept writing, even after Alice came out of the lake. Alan did not destroy the evil, just the form it had taken (Barbara). He is just trapped, like Zane in the lake. Although he seems to be manipulated by the darkness.

5. Alice had stayed in the lake throughout the whole "1st week" and the days leading up to Deer Fest. Because the game showed numerous times morning, and night before Alice got out.

6. Tom never died, he was trapped in the lake after diving with Barbara's heart. This happened to Alan too. It seems that someone who enters the lake can not get out unless written to. Like Alice and what I would assume Mr. Scratch.

7. The ocean line could be taken as the evil of the world or the world's evil. An ocean can cover the whole earth, which would mean that the "darkness" is not limited to Bright Falls.

Questions:

1. The only manuscripts I can't make sense off are the ones that are not voiced by Alan. I think they are the Sudden Stop 1 (Manuscript 11) The Sudden Stop (Manuscript 12) . I have to double check though. I though it was Zane but it doesn't sound like him.

2. Who is Emil? There is a manuscript that talks about Zane's writing assistant Emil. Thomas Zane’s Writing and Assistant (Manuscript 55) Also the game has paint writings that say "Don't Trust Emil".

Ardocc
05-27-2010, 04:57 PM
Questions:

1. The only manuscripts I can't make sense off are the ones that are not voiced by Alan. I think they are the Sudden Stop 1 (Manuscript 11) The Sudden Stop (Manuscript 12) . I have to double check though. I though it was Zane but it doesn't sound like him.

2. Who is Emil? There is a manuscript that talks about Zane's writing assistant Emil. Thomas Zane’s Writing and Assistant (Manuscript 55) Also the game has paint writings that say "Don't Trust Emil".

Can't answer the first one, but the second, check this baby out:

Zane's writing assistant full name is Dr Emil Hartman.

MasterWolf
05-27-2010, 09:52 PM
Can't answer the first one, but the second, check this baby out:

Zane's writing assistant full name is Dr Emil Hartman.

Oh thanks I had no idea that was his full name.

jgahagan
05-27-2010, 09:56 PM
Here's an interesting discussion on Kotaku about the ending, featuring input from one of the writers under the username of "MikkiRMD (http://kotaku.com/people/MikkiRMD/)."

http://kotaku.com/5549207/

Lukhuta
05-29-2010, 02:36 PM
Nightingal becomes the new face of darkness (like Jagger before him) and Rose becomes the new lady of the light.

I believe Alan tries to rewrite a new story with new elements to redo everything again and again until he makes the perfect story to be able to save Alice and himself.

The balance between things he talks about is just the ending of his current version.

Gosh the "it's not a lake, it's an ocean" line is hard to understand though.
Is he trying to make everything again, but oceanside? (like holidays by the sea xD); or does he want some Cthulhu in his story now ? :p

Lukhuta
05-31-2010, 12:42 PM
Oooh I just thought of something cool concerning the Ocean's line!

(maybe someone said that earlier but i just dont want to read the whole thing just for one idea)

Maybe the Nightmare Alan has at the beginning of the game is connected to that! Since the Lighthouse is the only safe place, and... It's by the ocean!

Maybe the nightmare was just the redo of all the adventure and everytime it doesnt end as he wished it begins again and again with the "Alan wake up" line when coming to the destination where it will take place!

Gosh I love to explode my brain thinking about this ending!

ConfusedGeek
05-31-2010, 04:31 PM
yeah, alan swapped places with alice, but i thought that the "writer" in the window was zane and he was controlling the story.

maybe he, belatedly, found out what alan found out (there needs to be balance), and need to have both alana and alice die so him and his wife can come back? that why as fbi agent he wanted him dead.

just a though.

btw, in the end the sheriff wasn't the sheriff that alan was walking around with. the one at the nd was older and blond.

no?

Dark Killa94
06-02-2010, 02:04 AM
I just have one thing I want to say concerning mr. scratch aka alan's double, well two actually 1) the his name explains what he is, scratch like a piece of scratch paper to be written how alan see it to be but 2) what puzzles me is the fact that half of his face is covered in shadows and/or darkness implying he's evil.

Logan I
06-02-2010, 06:26 PM
The end of this game was somewhat open to interpretation in my point... The guy behind Rose is Agent Nightengale, that has been established. I believe he is there because he wishes to stay in the darkness, maybe he is now one of the taken? Yes it appears that he switched himself out for alice so that she could live (he seemed to care more about her than himself anyway and he didn't seem to enjoy his life much anyway). The line its not a lake its an ocean could elude to many things but I do remember something about the lighthouse saying something similar to you at the beginning of the game. Oh and finally "Alan, Wake up..." this seemed totally obvious to me... it is all a dream, just like the beginning of the game when you first face the hitch hiker, hence the title charachters name Alan Wake, A. Wake (awake...). But to each their own, your interpretation may be somewhat different than mine but that is the beauty of an ambiguous ending like this.

Logan I
06-02-2010, 06:36 PM
One quick question, is the ending any different if you beat it on nightmare difficulty or if you find all the pages including nightmare difficulty? Just curious, Im playing through on nightmare right now. I don't want to know the ending if it is different, I was just curious if there is any difference.

porkfriedtar
06-02-2010, 11:54 PM
When I saw Rose I figured she was just holding the lamp cause she was touched by the darkness and needed the extra light, nothing more. Nightingale and Hartman were the only two big guys we saw get hit by the dark presence but never killed so I'm thinking that (at least Nightingale) is now tainted by the darkness because as the darkness says right before you put the clicker in Barbara "I'll find a new face" or something like that. So Nightingale could be her temporary replacement. As for how he saved Alice I have no clue and for the ocean line, I think he just realized how the lake was limitless, he had a suprised look on his face when he said it and earlier in the game it was said that Zane tried to bring Barbara to the bottom but he never 'found' the bottom. Just my two cents!

O and I feel that Mr. Scratch will be in any or all of the dlc that leads into season 2 because it just felt so random when you met him. Zane was like, 'O yea that's the new you' and then that was it.

Giptuc
06-03-2010, 01:12 PM
The way I saw it.. was that at the end, Alan switched places with Alice (established.), and it was definately Nightingale in the window (established).

Personally I believe what Alan says at the end about the Lake being an ocean, CAN just be a referance to the actual size of the lake, and it having (theoretically) no end... because at the end of the game, when the Alan is on his knees after defeating Barbara, i swear the Cabin is STILL falling in the water... or maybe it relates to the darkness actually being the lake, and that it is not a lake, but an unending amount of darkness. Barbara says how that lake is special, which is found out because it houses the darkness. Zane lived in the cabin on the Isle, which was 'destroyed' when a 'volcano' erupted, which can be assumed was actually the darkness from within the lake when Zane weakened it.

The diving suit is there because Zane tries to dive to the bottom, which is said in one of the manuscripts about him being just a pinprick of light in the darkness, Zane went there to damage barbara and the darkness, which he did but because of it became trapped in the darkness.

Alan is there, because Zane knew he could not defeat the darkness (established), but because Zane wrote that he would be there. Alan exists because Zane wrote that he would come to Bright Falls, and he has the clicker because Zane wrote it in the story that Alan had recieved it as a child, but the real clicker was in the Will-Lit room along with the manuscript page from Zanes original manuscript explaining it.

The Darkness was somewhat defeated by zane, and trapped within the lake, manifesting within Barbara until it could be released, and to do that it needed someway to do that, which is Wake. Zane writes that he comes, and so Barbara lures him to a fake Isle within the lake, a place she can capture him and have him write the story which the darkness is able to recreate in the real world, a story that will allow the darkness to gain enough power to release itself from the lake, however the one thing stopping it is the manuscript and clicker from the well-lit room.
Zane knows that Alan will come to bright falls (because he wrote it), so he left that manuscript and clicker there for him to find, and so the darkness would not know about it.

I believe everything that happens afterwards is a somewhat... equal time period to when Alan switches places. He dives in the lake, but this time is aware of it all, and switches himself with Alice. This time however, the story will playout differently, because he is not trying to escape the darkness with Zane in order to save Alice, as he as already done so. He is writing in order to keep the darkness sealed within the Lake.

I think, yes, he has made Rose the new lady of the light, and Nightingale knows this, and that is why he is in the diner, because he knows about the darkness (his partner), and therefore he must know that Rose is guarding the secret that Alan has written in, and therefore he knows that she knows how to get to it. I dont believe he is a Taken, but its more just symbolism of the darkness.

The Signal (or w/e) DLC is about Wake going through the town earlier in the story and establishing more information on the darkness, which will hopefully give a more understanding piece of information into the darkness and wtf it is.

The Writer DLC is after Alan switches places, and is about Alan in the cabin, and what he must do. Honestly, i think it will cover the second Alan/Zane, and now fully aware, he will be able to change the story even more in order to weaken the darkness.



ANYWHOO, after a whole load of writing and theorising crap that probably makes no sense... im just gonna go with... Remedy guys are spastic for trying to make up this story. No wonder it took em 5 years to get the game out... but no one forget that i believe they are making like 3 games for Alan Wake or something... i remember hearing it on the LCE bonus disk, so more questions/Answers will be answered there.

edit: redeyecoyote over at Kotaku said "I get Alan's sacrifice at the end, to keep the Darkness contained with his stories", which is actually a really good way to put it. Throughout Alans story, the darkness followed him on his quest to save Alice, trying to get him back to write the ending of the story, but if he is already in the cabin, the darkness isnt out following Alan. and with him aware of the darkness, he can write it like another horror, but this means that the darkness CANNOT just be contained within the lake, and therefore thats what nightingale and Rose (? lol forget) are about. Nightingale is made the new capsule for the darkness, and she is there with the latern to keep him at bay, while Alan writes the story on a way to defeat it.

Logan I
06-03-2010, 08:24 PM
That sounds like one of the best explanations of the ending that I have heard so far. Wake switched himself so that he can stya behind in the cabin to fight the darkness the most effective way he can... with his writing

Numeric Ben
06-04-2010, 10:24 PM
The way I experienced it (as stated in some other thread) is that it's really not "Mr Scratch" alltho the subtitles say so.

It's actually "Mr -scratching noise-".

I had to go back and watch that, but you're right, it is "Mr. -vzzrp-" like a record scratch. I agree, I think he'll be the "Alan Wake" you play as in the DLC.

Ketua
06-05-2010, 01:15 AM
Past, Present, and Future.

Past:
Zane wrote Alan into existence to defeat the darkness since he knew he wasn't strong enough, then wrote himself out of existence to try and repair the damage he had already done. Making Alan a construct of Zane.

Alan had learned of Zane while writing for the darkness during the 'missing week' and realized that he (alan) was also too weak, so he wrote Zane back into the story as the 'mentor' so that he would be able to defeat the dark.
Making the Zane we know a construct of Alan NOT the actual Zane. So in essence Alan's Zane is Alan, not Alan being Zane as has been said previously. Which is why the voices mesh near the end.

Everything Zane did was removed by his own hand except what was in the shoebox, so all of his past actions we learn about are creations of Alan in order to help himself.

Cynthia, the well-lit room, Zane ripping out the darkness' heart and taking to the bottom of the lake, all created by Alan to protect the shoebox and give him the ability to win.

Present:
Alan switched with Alice because of the balance, a great loss for a great gain. Scratch is a placeholder designed to allow Alan to maneuver in the real world while writing in the cabin.

Rose is the new lady of light. Cynthia wouldn't do for Alan what she would for Zane because she loved Zane (which was written by Alan) Alan was here labor for Zane now that it's over I bet she IS going to Vegas, all those lights. Rose on the other hand was obsessed with Alan and will guard whatever HE wrote in for the next person (yes next person)

Nightingale is now the dark's avatar, he was grabbed by the dark at the police station and we hadn't seen him since. My theory is he was already touched before he came to bright falls. It sounds like he and his partner encountered the dark back east, and his partner died, but WHY blame Alan and come to after him? NOBODY outside new about Alan's writing here. The answer, the dark told him, it had enough control over nightingale to send him after Alan, making him think his partner's death was Alan's fault, there is no 'write his partner back in' mentality. If you read the manuscripts he nearly killed Alan in cold blood when him and Barry were passed out drunk, but chickened out.

In the end, and I'm shocked no one else picked up on this, Nightingale is in the diner, 'the last place in Bright Falls the dark still had power' because of that back hallway.

Future:
Alan talks about Zane's mistake. It was actually two-fold. Bringing Barbara back without consequence made her an avatar of the dark, Zane tried to correct this by writing himself out existence, his second mistake. Since he didn't exist he couldn't take any active role, all his knowledge and power was lost, and the darkness had to simply start at square 1 waiting for a new artist.

Alan knew he couldn't defeat the darkness without it starting in greatly weakened state, even with whatever Zane left behind so he wrote Zane back in and had this new Zane weaken the darkness and then guide Alan in it's defeat.

It's not a lake, it's an ocean. Metaphor and reality. Darkness never dies. Darkness never ends. The same with evil in these types of stories. It's also highly likely the lake connects to other/expands into much larger bodies, underground. The good guys NEVER win they just hold it off a little longer. That was why Zane made such a huge mistake writing himself out, he hoped to remove the damage and find a way to end it. In this respect Alan is a much better writer, he knows there will never be an end. Alan wrote himself out of the story, while maintaining his power over the darkness, in his new 'trapped' state the story no longer needs him in it, yet he has power to effect it. Unlike Zane's solution Alan's goes much further towards a permanent end, or at least a permanent balance.

With rose as the new LL and nightingale as the new avatar of a now severely weakened darkness, plus scratch allowing Alan to move as he writes, the forces of good are much stronger, but the battle continues, as it has to in order to not break the story.

From this point Alan can now try to alter the genre as the dark altered it on him, which would then allow a happy ending. Barring that he will create and guide a new protege who will repeat everything he has done with Cynthia and Barbara, but doing it with rose and nightingale.

Think of a horror story like a light in a closed empty room. There is no darkness, just the light. But when the bulb dies, the heroes have to fix/replace it or the room will be dark forever. That is what Alan is up against, a never-ending foe, and such foe needs a never-ending handyman, which is what he wrote himself out to be.

Logan I
06-05-2010, 05:27 AM
I have to agree with what Ketua said. I would add one possibility on the meaning of "its not a lake its an ocean" this could possibly also refer to the amount of power he now realizes he has been granted by cauldron lake. The lake is giving him the power to write things into existence, he has just realized that his power as creator is limitless... its not a lake its an ocean... a seemingly never ending amount of power that he now wields. Also it is possible that the darkness was created by Zane's writing in the first place and it is simply a metaphor for the struggle between good and evil within one self and now through the combination of the magic of the lake and his writing it has been unleashed. But I don't really know, just talking out my backside on a random thought that popped into my head, but hey thats what these forums are about right, discussion that leads to a better understanding.

Tri Force95
06-05-2010, 02:12 PM
this game has been so easy to understand all the way through, but i had trouble understanding the ending to,
he talked about balancing the scales so my guess is he swaped places with alice, which after all his work is a bit of a bummer really.

I really wouldn't say its a bummer. I don't think this game could have really ended with a happy ending, but just and ending that works.

As for the confusion, I just assumed he trapped himself down there to save Alice, though the last lines of the Episode, 'Its not a lake. Its an ocean.' make me think that he may now be under contol of the darkness, in some sense.

Monsterb0x
06-06-2010, 02:06 PM
In one of the manuscript pages, Wake describes The Dark Place:
"The dark place I found myself in was unlike anything I could ever have imagined; it wasn't solid, it flowed. It was conceptual and subjective.

For someone else, an artist in another field, it would have been very different. I could sense the story of the manuscript all around me, the words and ideas floating in the air, poised to become real."

Much like the Dark Place, what Tom Zane left for the future was open to the future artist's interpretation. When whatever artist was once again threatened by the darkness, the loophole (plothole?) had been created, but it was up to the artist at the time to fill it. In this case, since Alan Wake was a writer, he created a shoebox and filled it with a manuscript page and the clicker.

Don't forget, Tom was a poet. The page in the shoebox was Alan Wake-style prose and an object from his childhood. The idea of some object to fight the darkness, left in the Well-Lit Room, was the loophole. Creating a concept for some future artist to use was infinitely more powerful than a specific artifact as it would have allowed the creator to use something personal and with immense power to them. Making it all the more potent in the imagined-reality in which they found themselves traveling through.

I fucking love this game...

MEMANIAsama
06-07-2010, 03:26 PM
I suspect that Mr. Scratch is actually the Alan we were playing as during the game. The game ends with the lines "Alan, wake up." and it also begins with those lines as well. Alan has the powers not only to write, but also to edit his own work. So, in a weird way it MAY be a giant looping event to a point, but the story DOES continue.

Think of it this way. We have Plot A and Plot B. Plot A existed (but we never saw it) and is chugging along and gets to the end of the game. Plot B suddenly wipes Plot A out of existence, perhaps leaving a few things as they occurred because of certain rules that can't be broken or simply to drop the hints to the gamer as to what the hell happened in the story. I mean, that sort of makes sense right?

Additionally, maybe Diving Suit is actually Alan Wake guiding Mr. Scratch under the guise of Thomas Zane. He may have never existed, and is simply a construct of Alan's writing to create this "mystical being" to help guide Mr. Scratch in his journey.

The reasons I think this are as follows:

#1. Alan is trapped under the lake writing, throughout the game there is this Manuscript that Alan (Mr. Scratch) doesn't remember writing. The Manuscript is dictating the events that are occurring, and it's also setting up some of the backstory.

#2. The theories of Mr. Scratch being a representation of Alan, so he could still exist in the world and protect Alice. Maybe he was created to SAVE Alice instead.

#3. The TV shows with Alan clearly show him in the Cabin typing up that manuscript, as opposed to being at Dr. Hartman's clinic.

I also have a crazy theory that doesn't exactly fit in with anything above that Zane was the original Alan, who screwed up royally and created Mr. Scratch. So, Thomas Zane (originally named Alan Wake) was the Plot A that got erased, and Plot B was Mr. Scratch thinking he was Alan Wake while thinking that the REAL Alan Wake was Thomas Zane. O_o

MEMANIAsama
06-07-2010, 04:31 PM
Also... some random thoughts:

- Alcohol had something about seeing through the darkness or keeping you safe, it would explain why the FBI agent drank so much, why the rock & roll brothers were always drunk (somewhere in a manuscript didn't it say something like "They could see the truth", maybe I'm making that up), AND the town was semi-famous for it's "Moonshine Caverns" and the such. Seems like alcohol and the town sort of went hand in hand.

- Deerfest, in my opinion, felt like it was this big deal, almost like some yearly ritual, perhaps to keep the darkness at bay or part of some secret "Taken" society or whatever? If I remember right, in the prequel movies, it seemed as if the main character transformed into some kind of wild animal (a deer maybe?) and went crazy on his room.

- Miners/Workers, all the enemies were miners and construction workers and such, perhaps because of the whole flood thing that killed those 7 miners in the mineshaft, perhaps it's using them over and over again as these ghostly enemies?

These thoughts are just things that popped into my head over the course of the 6 episodes, and were never really touched upon much.

lostinsinai
06-07-2010, 08:46 PM
I really enjoyed this game, i have a love/hate thing with the ending! Love the fact that we'll be talking about this for ages and the game really makes you think...Hate the fact that we probably won't get proper answers until a sequel comes out! hopefully it wont be 5 years for that to get made!

One thing i would like to find out about is night springs! I remember when the sheriff mentioned that there was a rumour that night springs was based on bright falls! I also think this could be what the DLC will answer.

M1keX
06-07-2010, 10:24 PM
Also... some random thoughts:

- Alcohol had something about seeing through the darkness or keeping you safe, it would explain why the FBI agent drank so much, why the rock & roll brothers were always drunk (somewhere in a manuscript didn't it say something like "They could see the truth", maybe I'm making that up), AND the town was semi-famous for it's "Moonshine Caverns" and the such. Seems like alcohol and the town sort of went hand in hand.



The reason the Andersons could ''see the truth'' is because of the moonshine they drank which was made from the water in the lake (the one that bird leg isle was on), So as far as i know Nightingale didn't drink any moonshine he was just a drunk lol

Lonewulf
06-08-2010, 03:13 AM
I don't know if this has been answered but after completing the game I can now answer this question: Who is the man in the window behind Rose? The answer is Nightingale. Sorry if I misspelled his name wrong.

c00chym0n5ter7
06-08-2010, 08:56 AM
http://weblog-karma.blogspot.com/2010/06/daily-entry-alan-wake-best-mindfrag-in.html

The guy that wrote this blog sums it all up for me. I also agree with him 100% and plus its a real good read that everyone should check it ut.

MEMANIAsama
06-09-2010, 03:53 PM
http://weblog-karma.blogspot.com/2010/06/daily-entry-alan-wake-best-mindfrag-in.html

The guy that wrote this blog sums it all up for me. I also agree with him 100% and plus its a real good read that everyone should check it ut.

I agree with him, but my only complaint is that I strongly feel that "Alan, wake up." is a throwback to the intro of the game and is supposed to signify the usage of Mr. Scratch as opposed to being sequel related.

Full Metal COS
06-09-2010, 04:09 PM
Just a theory that me and a couple of buddy's came up with regarding Nightingale: He refers to his dead partner and knows that Alan has done something wrong (murder?), but how could he know if it had not happened yet?
Answer: Nightingales "partner" was Alex Casey (the star of Alans books, killed in "the Sudden Stop"), it makes sense to think that if Alans writing is coming true then why not the partner of the dead protagonist from his books coming back for revenge (as an aside, I'd probably drink a lot too if I found out I was a fictional character.

Just a thought.
Peace.

Ali_P_84
06-09-2010, 06:13 PM
That would fit in with the jail scene in episode 5 where Sarah (the local sherriff) questions why Nightingale is really in Bright Falls.

Was Nightingale killed when he got pulled out of the door by the darkness?

N3xus Gam3r
06-09-2010, 06:19 PM
Was Nightingale killed when he got pulled out of the door by the darkness? You can see him in the the end, maybe he is a Taken, because it's dark inside, where he is :)

Ali_P_84
06-09-2010, 06:27 PM
You can see him in the the end, maybe he is a Taken, because it's dark inside, where he is :)

I'll have to re-read the manuscript page where it is mentioned to see if it mentions a death or if he is just pulled through the door. I suspect he could well be the next Barbara Jagger.

JamesRIOT
06-09-2010, 08:04 PM
Also... some random thoughts:

- Alcohol had something about seeing through the darkness or keeping you safe, it would explain why the FBI agent drank so much, why the rock & roll brothers were always drunk (somewhere in a manuscript didn't it say something like "They could see the truth", maybe I'm making that up), AND the town was semi-famous for it's "Moonshine Caverns" and the such. Seems like alcohol and the town sort of went hand in hand.



I certainly remember a reference at Anderson Farm to the brothers seeing the truth.

My two cents on the ending:

- The man behind Rose is Nightengale. He looks like him, and it could make some sense, if we assume that Nightengale remains amongst the Dark Presence. I initally thought it could be Thomas Zane, but then that wouldn't make too much sense with the rest of the story, as it seems too random.

- The line about the lake and the ocean is a metaphor, like Sarah said ("a bit too heavy on the metaphors"). The metaphor would imply that Alan is aware that not only can he control what happens to him, but also what happens to others and the entire world around him. The "lake" would symbolise Bright Falls, whilst the "ocean" is the rest of society, and Alan is implying that his writing does not only have to affect Bright Falls, but has the potential to affect anywhere and everywhere.

Zombiedrd
06-10-2010, 06:51 PM
I don't think we will ever truly understand the ending. Remember at the very beginning it was said Horror stories should never answers all the questions. I doubt we will ever truly get answers to everything. This ending has caused a lot of dissonance and has made it memorable. Just the thing to get people to buy more Remedy games(Even if they are not related to Wake).

Do I want Alan to escape, yes. He went through everything and sacrificed himself for Alice(Who is now alone). Don't think we will ever have 'resolution'. What is known is that he is trapped, but he is also powerful. The Dark Presence is still there(Rose and the Fed), and may again try to 'break free' from its restraints. Maybe a sequel, maybe not. Time will tell.

I just thought of something else. I wonder how writing people to death(The Taken) will weigh on Alan. He had to do it, but they still died, and many were innocent.

MasterWolf
06-12-2010, 07:45 AM
I'll have to re-read the manuscript page where it is mentioned to see if it mentions a death or if he is just pulled through the door. I suspect he could well be the next Barbara Jagger.

There was a Page talking about how the darkness usually took over somebody completely to do its bidding. But that sometimes "it" needed the mind of the individual (like Zane and Alan) to help it do its bidding.

This is why we don't fight him in a "boss" battle like we did with the park ranger and the guy you were actually supposed to get the keys to your cabins in the beginning ( I forgot his name).

@Giptuc , the cabin is not falling, its just the weird camera angle spin and the one after where alan is on his knees.

Ali_P_84
06-12-2010, 03:31 PM
This is why we don't fight him in a "boss" battle like we did with the park ranger and the guy you were actually supposed to get the keys to your cabins in the beginning ( I forgot his name).

Carl Stucky

Phrozenspite
06-12-2010, 05:46 PM
I think this is probably one of the subsequent stories that Alan wrote while under the lake... the Stephen King references and the Alan, wake up moments are probably alluding to the Dark Tower series which is another loop for the protagonist in which the last book ends in the same way that the first began

MasterWolf
06-13-2010, 06:40 AM
Some points:

1. The only manuscripts I can't make sense off are the ones that are not voiced by Alan. I think they are the Sudden Stop 1 (Manuscript 11) The Sudden Stop (Manuscript 12) . I have to double check though. I though it was Zane but it doesn't sound like him.

It was James McCaffrey, and it is a Max Payne reference. I just did not remember the voice of "Max Payne" because I have not played the series since they came out. I also did not know that James McCaffrey was the voice of Thomas Zane. Wikipedia, I love you.

Hoborg
06-13-2010, 07:02 PM
The most logical outcome is that Alan Wake is a product of Thomas Zane's writings having the power to create reality just like Zane did in order to save everyone because Zane failed. It's a religious analogy to God. Mr. Scratch is just a simulacra whose purpose appears to continue the story line as the protagonist. The ending phrase refers to the immeasurable depth of the underworld, an analogy to Satan and hell.

Alan Wake did in fact write Alice out of the story while allowing the darkness to subsume his identity. This is what the balancing of scales is all about. Zane failed because he tried to save both himself and Barbara.

My guess is that AW2 will feature Mr. Scratch as the protagonist and the original AW will be the darkness. And yes, the person behind Rose is Agent Nightingale who will probably appear in the sequel as well.

MAxiMoZ
06-13-2010, 07:39 PM
when i Saw the guy behind Rose I fought it was the FBI Guy that has been killed.

SpinelesS
06-13-2010, 08:10 PM
I belive that "its not a lake, its an ocean" refers to the fact that the "power" (not the darkness) of the lake isnt just limited to bright falls, but that it is able to influence other places. (Wakes nightmares as a child etc)

Interface23
06-18-2010, 10:49 AM
Questions:

1. The only manuscripts I can't make sense off are the ones that are not voiced by Alan. I think they are the Sudden Stop 1 (Manuscript 11) The Sudden Stop (Manuscript 12) . I have to double check though. I though it was Zane but it doesn't sound like him.



The Sudden Stop pages are from Alan Wakes last book where Alex Casey dies I believe, which is supposed to be like Max Payne. Has nothing to do with the game.

SIR TRICE
06-21-2010, 12:02 AM
My interprutation of the ending......

That Alan is in fact just a crazy dude. His wife was planning on leaving him

(on your way to the cabin at the end you hear her arguing saying im leaving you alan...and hes like wtf you arent alice?")

so he tied her up, threw her into the lake....

this creating another demention due to his delusions you are playing in another world that he made up with his stories he wrote.. the two worlds collide merging reality....

he sacrifices his life for his wives...he ends up in the other world....

the man in the big daddy look a like suit must be some sort of resuce team who was looking for her when she died that never found her.

PS - the guy in the diner at the end is the FBI agent who got blown away by the wind who tried shooting you...

MEMANIAsama
06-22-2010, 01:35 PM
My interprutation of the ending......

That Alan is in fact just a crazy dude. His wife was planning on leaving him

(on your way to the cabin at the end you hear her arguing saying im leaving you alan...and hes like wtf you arent alice?")

so he tied her up, threw her into the lake....

this creating another demention due to his delusions you are playing in another world that he made up with his stories he wrote.. the two worlds collide merging reality....

he sacrifices his life for his wives...he ends up in the other world....

the man in the big daddy look a like suit must be some sort of resuce team who was looking for her when she died that never found her.



:drunk <---- You.

anthonyd46
06-25-2010, 10:19 PM
best thing bout the ending is the david bowie song at the end lol

Wildcats 418
06-27-2010, 09:21 AM
I think the "The Writer" DLC will feature Jake from the Bright Falls series, he was a kind of a writer right?

im pretty sure the guy from the bright falls mini series became a taken

SoupBriefs
06-27-2010, 08:43 PM
I was disappointed in the ending. The guy was the number one selling author and he wasn't a good enough writer to keep himself alive at the end? How dumb is that.

GRASSCIA
06-27-2010, 11:17 PM
Alan Wake seems to fallow the path of every Stephen Sing novel iv read r heard about. the story's understandable for 3/4 of the way then it twist to mess with your mind then goes of the deep end of incoherency. don't get me wrong though i still love the game and i cant wait for the DLC.

FilteredWater95
07-01-2010, 03:04 AM
I just finished the game about a half an hour ago. It was extremely confusing to me at the time, but reading some things has cleared it up a bit for me. For example, I agree with the infinite loop theory. I kinda have a theory, but whenever I try to explain it to myself, it just becomes more confusing...

Nitz13
07-02-2010, 12:32 AM
I was disappointed in the ending. The guy was the number one selling author and he wasn't a good enough writer to keep himself alive at the end? How dumb is that.
He's not dead.... He just wasn't able to save both him and his wife, so he sacrificed himself to keep the darkness at bay.

Zombiedrd
07-08-2010, 11:47 PM
I was disappointed in the ending. The guy was the number one selling author and he wasn't a good enough writer to keep himself alive at the end? How dumb is that.

He specifically said that there can't be a happy ending. He isn't exactly dead, just captured by the Dark Presence. I am guessing there will be an Alan Wake 2 as the Sheriff, Agent, and the Lady of the Light are all alive, and if my theory holds, not affected by the 'reset'. They will probably attempt to help Alan in the next one.

BTroxell
08-16-2010, 01:44 PM
Food for thought

Alan has always had the power to create things in his dreams and in his writings, maybe even certain things in his life he thought was natural, this is due to him being born or created or something from the lake or the darkness or the fact that he is a writer written into existence by a writer at the lake. This explains why Nightingale hates him. Nightingale has been with his partner for several years, they are like brothers, then sadly he dies due to unforeseen circumstances. Then someone mentions that he died just like Alex Casey died in Alan's new book, upon further investigation, he finds out that his partners name is actually Alex Casey switched around and that many things in his life and his partners were exactly like the books, feeling as though wake had to have something to do with this he hunts him down.

Those who have Zane's poem from nightmare or just someone who plays the cinematic of his original dream know that it says something about a deep violent green ocean somewhere, that apparently Alan has been to before. Maybe this means he is really Zane just reconstituted -maybe that's the devs reason for putting Zane in a suit- or maybe it means that all of this has happened to Wake before; I don't know. The Ocean line at the end might be a reference to him realizing something pertaining to what I just said, or maybe the fact that the stories have a rippling effect and they change way more than just the area around the lake, but honestly, thinking about it doesn't even matter, as there is simply not enough evidence or clarity to justify any solid explanation. I do really like my theory for Nightingales mystery though, and I think it is extremely close to the real thing. I mean think about it, why are his old books referenced so much, even having two pages from it handed to you in the game. Another thing, there is no way they would play up all the books stuff just to be nothing because its also a dual reference to Max Payne, there would not be a tv show, manuscripts, and all this other crap to reference the fact that Remedy is moving on, that's pretty small minded.

Also, haha, Rose is definitely not the darkness, she is outside in mid-day with a lantern, and I think that's a pretty obvious thing. She is probably just all mental or something, maybe a new lamp lady or possibly just a dark servant. Nightingale is also definitely the man in the window, no question.

Edit- Having only read the first or so pages when I typed this, I hadn't realized people were saying what I just said, that gives my theories even more validation; the fact that people like myself came to the same conclusion.