Ryot Control Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 http://www.gamerzines.com/xbox-360/news/hardcore-gamers-wrong-10-years.html Microsoft's Director of Policy and Enforcement for Xbox LIVE Stephen Toulouse has hit out at the hardcore gamers who have raised concerns about Microsoft's upcoming motion control interface Kinect, saying that they have "kinda been wrong a lot for the past ten years". "I have one thing to say to the hardcore gamer who says Kinect has nothing for them," said Toulouse while discussing concerns about Kinect on Major Nelson's latest podcast. "Those games will have achievements, so don't tell me you're not going to play at least some of them, you hardcore gamers out there. I know you will." Soooo, can we say that quality gaming has gone out the window in favor of casual shovelware gaming because not only casual gamers will buy Kinect, but everyone here too, solely because of the achievement factor? We made this market guys. I don't know if I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKashFlow Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 (edited) I wouldn't necessarily say that everything on Kinect is going completely down the route of casual gaming. I mean if Child of Eden plays anything like Rez for example I think other companies will follow suite and produce a mixture of great games as well as casual gaming. Edited September 9, 2010 by TheKashFlow Hit enter before I finished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryot Control Posted September 9, 2010 Author Share Posted September 9, 2010 Good point, but what is the ratio of Child of Eden quality games to Kinect Adventures style of gaming? It's pretty low. Maybe its more of the belief that the quote implies that the marketing strategy of Mircosoft is now pumping out achievement heavy games rather than quality games because that is what will sell to everyone now. If that was the case, I would have played every kids game out there in existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn Doug Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 I have the same reaction. There will be some good games on it. I really enjoyed Harmonix's Dance Central at PAX, so hopefully there will be enough good games out by Christmas to warrant a Boxing Day purchase. Plus, I do confess that I enjoyed playing a bunch of the Wii games, and this is basically the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKashFlow Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 I would imagine that the first batch of games are more for the purpose of showing off the capabilities of the hardware and to attract a more casual market, but I really can't see Microsoft alienating current 360 users, it would just not make logical sense. Sure there will be a casual market but I think there will still be the existing market Microsoft have appealed too already, which I think will constitute in more traditional games being available for Kinect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFZ Scrubs Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 sigh... i know i'm buying two... one for my mom because i know she'll love it and one for me (we live in different countries cuz of the military) But it looks pretty cool, it'll get some friends to come over and hang out with me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiddy08 Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 I am looking forward to kinect, not only for easy achievements but just for dance central. I have been waiting years to have someone a 1v1 dance off. But he is right, devs will keep making family crap with easy achievements that we will play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramericus Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 lol its one thing for people to buy shitty used games just for achievements, no one but the biggest of whores will spend 150 on something for them. So no mr Toulouse, I dont plan on buying your shitty peripheral just because you tacked some achievements on some shovelware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StolenPaper18 Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 I definitely won't be buying Kinect just for achievements. If I do end up buying it, it will only be because they actually release good games that utilize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeepEmRolling Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 I definitely won't be buying Kinect just for achievements. If I do end up buying it, it will only be because they actually release good games that utilize it. Same here. Until they release a game that is something I must play, and none of what I've seen comes anywhere close to that, I won't buy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryot Control Posted September 9, 2010 Author Share Posted September 9, 2010 I don't plan on getting one anytime soon either, and wait for the eventual price drop. But it kind of sucks to know that people like me are in the minority, so even if I do vote with my wallet and wait it out, the masses will pick it up anyway and encourage the current market trend. After all, the unspoken DLC agreement between Microsoft and developers is that the first update can be free, but anything after that would be required to charge. As according to Valve, which is why we don't see the Team Fortress 2 update on Xbox. http://scrawlfx.com/2010/09/valve-xbox-live-limitations-a-train-wreck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joewl45 Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 I don't think people will buy it for the achievements until it has a major price cut. I don't think Mr Toulouse was being completely serious with his achievement comment, but if he was then I think he may be mistaken on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrupt. Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 Nobody else here hopes its a flop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid-X Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 The problem is, I think Microsoft has allowed Nintendo's success with the Wii to blind themselves to one important lesson that gamings history has taught us: Almost every single one of these peripherals have failed because most Developers are loathe to support something that they can't guarantee will turn a profit, because of a small user base. Meanwhile the consumers wont buy something if theres little to no support for it. Look at the Nintendo mouse, the EyeToy, light guns, ect. Sure, there have been some that have seen widespread acceptance, but those are exceptions, not the rule. Look at the very first Dualshock controller. One could buy a Dualshock, and STILL use it with any of the older PS1 games, so it was a worthwhile purchase. You can't do that with something like Kinect. The reason motion works for the Wii was because Nintendo *specifically* built the system with Motion Controll in mind, and it's been around since day one. Developers can add motion controll to their games, and know that any Wii consumer will be able to use it. Once again, the same can't be said of the Kinect. This is why the Kinect will, ultimetly, fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn Doug Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 Nobody else here hopes its a flop? Why would we want it to flop? If such a big investment flops, we might see Microsoft go the way of Sega or Atari. That isn't good for the prospects of having our gamerscore survive to the next generation of consoles. The more I think about it, the more I realize that the problem is that the people who are against it in the "hardcore" community are just the loudest voices, not necessarily the most numerous. But then, there are people in the community who will complain about everything. Look no further than the reaction to the Dead Rising 2 achievement list for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakisbac Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 Mr. Toulouse was almost correct in his statement. "Hardcore" gamers that already have Kinect will buy shitty games for gamerscore, much as they do now, but only the very rich or the extreme gamers will drop $150 on Kinect for gamerscore. It's disgusting that such a thought occurs to these people, but we've only brought it on ourselves by continually buying sub-standard DLC just because they add achievements. Personally I think they've destroyed a system with great potential just to milk the consumer a little bit more. As of now, the only way I'll be buying Kinect is if my console craps out right before the release- in which case I'll buy the bundle. Otherwise I'm not interested in any of the games they offer, except perhaps Dance Central. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordthrash Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 I hope it is a flop and goes away quickly. I for one, will never buy this no matter how many achievements you make for it. Put that in you pipe and smoke it Mr. Toulouse!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieJediMastr Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 That's really a slap in the face to the hardcore gamers saying that you'll buy this cause of this one thing. Not for the quality of games that's supposed to be released with it. I for one won't be dropping $150 on a peripheral that may or may not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starstrukk X360A Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 I personally want to get Kinect, even if the games out right out are really casual. Hell, I'm a bit of a casual gamer myself. Earning achievements with Kinect should definitely be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrupt. Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 Surely this release is unfair for disabled hardcore gamers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaosx721 Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 I wouldn't necessarily say that everything on Kinect is going completely down the route of casual gaming. I mean if Child of Eden plays anything like Rez for example I think other companies will follow suite and produce a mixture of great games as well as casual gaming. Only problem with Child of Eden is that you can just use a normal controller on it and is also on the PS3. So all the hardcore gamers who want it wont have to get the Kinect to play it. Also Stephen Toulouse is wrong because hardcore gamers don't care for achievements. They aren't going to go out and buy Kinect just because they added achievements to their games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOOKH8R Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 Also Stephen Toulouse is wrong because hardcore gamers don't care for achievements. I'm going to have to disagree with that assertion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaosx721 Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 I'm going to have to disagree with that assertion. Well what I should of really said is, that most hardcore gamers aren't going to flock to a game for its achievements. I'm sure there's tons of hardcore gamers that love achievements, like me for example, but aren't going to go pick up a hannah montana game for some achievements, and same goes for Kinect. That's why I believe his statement is wrong because hardcore gamers don't care that much about achievements to run out and buy Kinect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramericus Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 To me there are three categories when it comes to achievements: Group 1: The people who dont give a crap about them Group 2: The people who enjoy collecting them in the games they bought, but they do not determine which games they are going to buy based on achievements Group 3: The people who enjoy achievements, and will buy/rent games simply for ease of achievements. I think he is grossly overestimating the number of people in group 3, especially since it requires a 150 peripheral to get to these easy achievement games. I think more of the hardcore gamers reside in group 2, could be wrong, but I think its more likely most are there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryot Control Posted September 10, 2010 Author Share Posted September 10, 2010 Surely this release is unfair for disabled hardcore gamers? That makes me mad because its true too. You can't be hardcore if you're disabled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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