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View Full Version : *Spoilers* So... WTF?


Ethereal235
03-30-2011, 07:40 PM
You're sent to the system to find Hacket's friend, who claims to have evidence of an impending Reaper invasion. That part makes sense. What makes no goddamned sense is that after freeing her, she led you back to the project, explained exactly what they could do to slow the impending invasion, shows you the countdown showing just how much time you have, and even shows you proof of the invasion even though she's been indoctrinated and doesn't want the project activated.

What the hell was the point of all that? Why did she bother leaving with you, or explaining anything? Why would she bring you to the artifact at all?

I would chalk it all up to being required to advance the plot, but I can think of more sensible ways to advance the plot in the same direction (when you find the artifact, the others there kill her and attempt to kill you, since they succumbed to indoctrination while she was away), so it just seems pretty senseless...

Baihu1983
03-30-2011, 08:05 PM
Well Shepards keep pushing for answers, my guess is she played along to trap you because as we saw in the main story the Reapers really want to get ahold of Shepard.

ooandyb
03-30-2011, 08:21 PM
More Spoilers....

It seems legit to me because their goal is to get you sedated and await the "Arrival." And even if you hold off the five waves you still get knocked out by the artifact. So basically, the reapers wanted to there and in a coma when they arrived. Unfortunately for them, you can add sedatives to the long list of things Shepard is immune to, along with bullets, pain, death, etc.

Captain Urahara
03-30-2011, 08:21 PM
Well Shepards keep pushing for answers, my guess is she played along to trap you because as we saw in the main story the Reapers really want to get ahold of Shepard.
This is pretty much it exactly.

She was indoctrinated the whole time. The plan was to lure you back by playing along, then Object Rho would disable you, and then they would hold you under sedation till the Reapers arrived in just over 2 days since the Reapers wanted Shepard alive. The mistake they made was forgetting how awesome Shepard is so (s)he wakes up, breaks out, and finishes the project.

mjc0961
03-30-2011, 09:11 PM
Yep. It's because she wanted you sedated so you can be given to the reapers. Remember, they tried to get Shepard's body once before. There are those comics and the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC that touch on that. So yeah, Kenson is indoctrinated and the reapers were bringing Shepard there to try and capture him again.

Bajan Elite
03-30-2011, 09:17 PM
What the others have posted above makes. You know it is kinda obvious, If you actually paid any attention to the game as you played you would have been able to figure this out, once you thought about it.

Ethereal235
03-30-2011, 10:31 PM
Yeah, the Reapers had wanted Shepard's body, but there wasn't ever even a strong indication that the invading Reapers had been directly contacted, and that aside, there are still a lot of plans that wouldn't involve risking their invasion plans. Why bring Shepard to the asteroid instead of some alternate location to subdue him?

I don't know, it kind of ruined suspension of disbelief for me. If the Reapers were directly behind it, then it kind of seems like they don't plan things very well, and if they weren't directly involved, then none of the characters' actions make any damned sense.

Captain Urahara
03-30-2011, 11:04 PM
Yeah, the Reapers had wanted Shepard's body, but there wasn't ever even a strong indication that the invading Reapers had been directly contacted, and that aside, there are still a lot of plans that wouldn't involve risking their invasion plans. Why bring Shepard to the asteroid instead of some alternate location to subdue him?

I don't know, it kind of ruined suspension of disbelief for me. If the Reapers were directly behind it, then it kind of seems like they don't plan things very well, and if they weren't directly involved, then none of the characters' actions make any damned sense.

Kenson and the rest of the people on the project hadn't contacted the Reapers, but they knew the Reapers wanted Shepard so they planned to present him/her to the Reapers when they arrived.
The Reaper artifact(Object Rho) influenced the people to do this. The Reapers had no direct contact with the people and therefore didn't give them any orders.

They kept Shepard at the asteroid as it was the closest place to the Mass Relay, which was where the Reapers would have arrived. When indoctrinated then you want to present the Reapers with what they want, and when better then when they first arrive and right as they arrive?
Do keep in mind that as far as the indoctrinated people knew the sedation was enough to keep Shepard down and they had no cause for concern. They underestimated Shepard and lost because of it.

SirLugash
03-30-2011, 11:30 PM
Yeah, the Reapers had wanted Shepard's body, but there wasn't ever even a strong indication that the invading Reapers had been directly contacted.

There was no direct contact to the reapers, but to Object Rho (didn't you hear it talking to you ?).

Why bring Shepard to the asteroid instead of some alternate location to subdue him?

Kind of easy to answer: They were going to the Alpha Relay anyway, so why just don't pick him up "on the road" ?

I don't know, it kind of ruined suspension of disbelief for me. If the Reapers were directly behind it, then it kind of seems like they don't plan things very well, and if they weren't directly involved, then none of the characters' actions make any damned sense.

Why not ? They were indoctrinated and told to lure Shepard there.
And as they are not completely mindless they did it in a way that was not of great suspicion.

By the way: Was it just me or did anybody else almost crapped himself when Kenson looked at you with her glowing eyes (like the collector general) ? xD

Ethereal235
03-30-2011, 11:42 PM
Kenson and the rest of the people on the project hadn't contacted the Reapers, but they knew the Reapers wanted Shepard so they planned to present him/her to the Reapers when they arrived.

The Reaper artifact(Object Rho) influenced the people to do this. The Reapers had no direct contact with the people and therefore didn't give them any orders.

Almost the entire galaxy, including most Alliance members, don't even believe the Reapers are a real threat. Most have never even heard of it. Now you're saying that the staff of a distant excavation crew knows that the Reapers, whom they probably knew nothing about before discovering the artifact, want Shepard? How? Before Lair of the Shadow Broker, Shepard didn't even know they'd wanted his body, only that they had tried to kill him.

Do keep in mind that as far as the indoctrinated people knew the sedation was enough to keep Shepard down and they had no cause for concern. They underestimated Shepard and lost because of it.

Yeah, they might have wanted to keep him near the relay, but keeping him on an asteroid that they had fitted to destroy the relay seems silly. With FTL travel involved, it's not like a slightly different location would make a huge difference.

I don't know, I guess I'm just worried that ME3 will feel sloppy as this too. I really doubt it, but this just felt sort of rushed.

Captain Urahara
03-31-2011, 02:37 AM
Almost the entire galaxy, including most Alliance members, don't even believe the Reapers are a real threat. Most have never even heard of it. Now you're saying that the staff of a distant excavation crew knows that the Reapers, whom they probably knew nothing about before discovering the artifact, want Shepard? How?
Object Rho

mjc0961
03-31-2011, 03:23 AM
I think you guys are forgetting something.

Harbinger was able to talk to Shepard at the end of the mission. If Harbinger can talk to Shepard, he can talk to Kenson and the other humans.

Captain Urahara
03-31-2011, 03:56 AM
I think you guys are forgetting something.

Harbinger was able to talk to Shepard at the end of the mission. If Harbinger can talk to Shepard, he can talk to Kenson and the other humans.
It was never in question whether he could, but if he did, which I don't believe he did.

Why? Shepard was only there because (s)he went to save Dr. Kenson. It would have been different to go out and capture him/her, or call him/her there to capture him/her, but to only have him/her show up because (s)he was saving the doctor is a little out there. Sure you could say "Go get captured so Shepard will save you and you can bring him/her back", but it's a bit unexpected, especially from the Reapers.

ooandyb
03-31-2011, 04:20 AM
It was never in question whether he could, but if he did, which I don't believe he did.

Why? Shepard was only there because (s)he went to save Dr. Kenson. It would have been different to go out and capture him/her, or call him/her there to capture him/her, but to only have him/her show up because (s)he was saving the doctor is a little out there. Sure you could say "Go get captured so Shepard will save you and you can bring him/her back", but it's a bit unexpected, especially from the Reapers.


That almost makes it sounds like Hackett is in cahoots with the reapers and the Dr. getting captured presented the perfect situation to lure Shepard in. He does, after all, insist on Shepard going alone to save the doctor....

This isn't really what I think but I guess it's not outside the realm of possibility.

Or Hackett knew they were indoctrinated and wouldn't destroy the relay, and he also knew they'd want to capture Shepard, but that he was way too awesome to succumb to those n00bs. So, in essence, Hackett had him go in to FSU and destroy the relay.

I'm sure I could go on all day there are plenty of somewhat unreasonable possibilities.

Pushtrak
03-31-2011, 05:12 AM
Almost the entire galaxy, including most Alliance members, don't even believe the Reapers are a real threat. Most have never even heard of it. Now you're saying that the staff of a distant excavation crew knows that the Reapers, whom they probably knew nothing about before discovering the artifact, want Shepard? How? Before Lair of the Shadow Broker, Shepard didn't even know they'd wanted his body, only that they had tried to kill him.
Picture the scene. You work as part of an excavation team and unearth something. It is a Reaper artifact. It talks to you and bends your will to its own. It makes you try to capture Shepard so it can have a gift ready for the arrival of the Reapers when they plan to use the relay. It is all very simple. It just requires the exercise of thought.

transformer809
03-31-2011, 06:13 AM
i can't wait to play this dlc. so much talk about it everywhere

Opiate42
03-31-2011, 01:43 PM
i can't wait to play this dlc. so much talk about it everywhere

Just know that it's short. Fun, but short.

The_Truth
03-31-2011, 03:46 PM
I agree with the logic behind earlier posts, Amanda's plan to sedate Shepard was in full effect and she didn't feel that sharing information would be a threat as long as it lured him to what would have been his doom. Of course if it were me in her situation I would have falsified some of the facts and tried to lead him off course, just in case something had gone wrong with the plan. A man of Shepard's reputation shouldn't be underestimated.

Villains = Way too confident

HitmanHybrid
03-31-2011, 06:35 PM
What I want to know is, after seeing the visions of the reaper invasions, why the hell are they all giant squid? After blowing up the human reaper, it is revealed that reapers take the shape of the species they exterminate. They did a twist with that human reaper, but still it would mean that there are many other reapers out there that look like protheans and other ancient-extinct species.

And Harbinger is totally a squid.

Captain Urahara
04-01-2011, 01:13 AM
They did a twist with that human reaper, but still it would mean that there are many other reapers out there that look like protheans and other ancient-extinct species

You learn in Mass Effect 2 that the Reapers couldn't turn Protheans into Reapers for some reason, so they turn them into the Collectors. So no Prothean Reapers, and since Protheans were the only main species around last time the Reapers invaded they essentially skipped a generation of Reaper creation.

mjc0961
04-01-2011, 07:04 AM
It was never in question whether he could, but if he did, which I don't believe he did.

Why? Shepard was only there because (s)he went to save Dr. Kenson. It would have been different to go out and capture him/her, or call him/her there to capture him/her, but to only have him/her show up because (s)he was saving the doctor is a little out there. Sure you could say "Go get captured so Shepard will save you and you can bring him/her back", but it's a bit unexpected, especially from the Reapers.People were saying that there was no way that the colonists should have known that the Reapers would want Shepard alive. I was pointing out that Harbinger could have easily come right out and told them. And I'm rather certain he did. Isn't that the point of indoctrination? The reapers are in your mind, telling you what to do? It seems extremely possible to me that the Reapers could have just been telling Amanda and the other people there to act natural until they could subdue Shepard and hold him there for them. Remember all the characters in Mass Effect 1 who were indoctrinated and obviously following Sovereign's orders.

And even if you don't believe the indoctrination is that great, Harbinger could have just showed up to the other people on the asteroid and said "Hey, Shepard is coming here. Capture him for me." and then they tell Amanda over the radio when Shepard wasn't listening or something. Hell, he could have pulled "ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL" on someone. In fact, he might have briefly (that part where Amanda has reaper-style eyes).

Point is, I think it would have been easy for the Reapers to be like "Hey, we want Shepard, keep him locked down for us until we get there." I wouldn't expect smart plans from the Reapers either. Their overall thing just seems to be "We're powerful, we're great in numbers, and when we eventually get to the galaxy, we are just going to own the shit out of everyone else." Having a lousy plan to try and get Shepard doesn't seem so far-fetched to me, and ultimately they probably aren't too concerned that it failed because again, they have that whole "We're just going to kick your ass eventually" mentality going on.

SirLugash
04-01-2011, 12:37 PM
People were saying that there was no way that the colonists should have known that the Reapers would want Shepard alive. I was pointing out that Harbinger could have easily come right out and told them. And I'm rather certain he did. Isn't that the point of indoctrination? The reapers are in your mind, telling you what to do? It seems extremely possible to me that the Reapers could have just been telling Amanda and the other people there to act natural until they could subdue Shepard and hold him there for them. Remember all the characters in Mass Effect 1 who were indoctrinated and obviously following Sovereign's orders.

And even if you don't believe the indoctrination is that great, Harbinger could have just showed up to the other people on the asteroid and said "Hey, Shepard is coming here. Capture him for me." and then they tell Amanda over the radio when Shepard wasn't listening or something. Hell, he could have pulled "ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL" on someone. In fact, he might have briefly (that part where Amanda has reaper-style eyes).

Point is, I think it would have been easy for the Reapers to be like "Hey, we want Shepard, keep him locked down for us until we get there." I wouldn't expect smart plans from the Reapers either. Their overall thing just seems to be "We're powerful, we're great in numbers, and when we eventually get to the galaxy, we are just going to own the shit out of everyone else." Having a lousy plan to try and get Shepard doesn't seem so far-fetched to me, and ultimately they probably aren't too concerned that it failed because again, they have that whole "We're just going to kick your ass eventually" mentality going on.

Well Harbinger couldn't just show up as he was on his way with the Reaper Fleet.
And Indoctrination isn't as easy, they don't just tell you what they want you to do.
Have you listened to the research logs ?
People heard whispering in their minds, making them kind of crazy so they will eventually follow their commands.
Harbinger made the people believe that what he wants is for the greater good of them, that would explain why Kenson was so angry that she won't see the Reapers arrive.

Baihu1983
04-01-2011, 03:43 PM
Yeah, the Reapers had wanted Shepard's body, but there wasn't ever even a strong indication that the invading Reapers had been directly contacted, and that aside, there are still a lot of plans that wouldn't involve risking their invasion plans. Why bring Shepard to the asteroid instead of some alternate location to subdue him?

I don't know, it kind of ruined suspension of disbelief for me. If the Reapers were directly behind it, then it kind of seems like they don't plan things very well, and if they weren't directly involved, then none of the characters' actions make any damned sense.


Because Hakett new where they had gone. So she knew once Shepard told her who sent him/her there was no point trying to take him/her elsewhere.

rogermacarios
04-04-2011, 05:04 PM
The only flaw I can point is why the Reapers didn't get caught in the blast of the HUGE explosion, once they were only about few minutes from reaching the mass relay?

Mellow Tha Pro
04-05-2011, 09:13 PM
blah blah blah - no way in hell i'm gonna throw away $7 on this bull***t DLC - they got me for $10 on the Lair DLC, not this time.

Hybridchld
04-06-2011, 01:53 AM
The only flaw I can point is why the Reapers didn't get caught in the blast of the HUGE explosion, once they were only about few minutes from reaching the mass relay?

Yeah I was wondering about that too.

TBH I think the whole thing was a trap. If the Doctor didnt want the project to go ahead there was no reason for her to be on the Batarian planet getting more equipment, she could have just sat there and waited for the Reapers to show.

As Harbinger was able to talk to Shepard through the object he probably told the doctor to get caught knowing that the potential Reaper intel would lure Shepard to the system to rescue her.

Dz06lt
04-06-2011, 01:55 AM
i believe that she felt that he would be indoctrinated as well

SirLugash
04-06-2011, 02:28 AM
The only flaw I can point is why the Reapers didn't get caught in the blast of the HUGE explosion, once they were only about few minutes from reaching the mass relay?
If they use FTL drives (and therefor we don't know how fast they actually travel) they could be in any distance.
That all depends on how fast they were going, apart from the fact that they probably knew through Object Rho that their plan is about to fail, also Shepards talk to Harbinger clearly indicates that they know they can't go through there... "A star system sacrificed".
So they probably took a different route before they reached the system.

TBH I think the whole thing was a trap. If the Doctor didnt want the project to go ahead there was no reason for her to be on the Batarian planet getting more equipment, she could have just sat there and waited for the Reapers to show.
Probably not.
When they found the artifact and created the plan to destroy the alpha relay they built the station with that purpose.
Indoctrination works over time so they started to hear the whispers in their minds and the real impact of it probably happened as the station was nearly finished.

Hybridchld
04-06-2011, 03:13 AM
Probably not.
When they found the artifact and created the plan to destroy the alpha relay they built the station with that purpose.
Indoctrination works over time so they started to hear the whispers in their minds and the real impact of it probably happened as the station was nearly finished.

What I meant was the whole rescue mission was a trap not The Project itself.

If they where just planning to lure shepard with the intel there would no point in actually putting engines on the asteroid. They where obviously indoctornated while working on the plan to destory the relay but once they decided not to destory it they could have just stayed on the asteroid and waited.

Instead she went to the Battarian planet and got captured to lure Shepard to the system so s/he could be indoctornated too.

SirLugash
04-06-2011, 12:36 PM
Oh alright, now I got you, well yes I guess you're right with that.

Tamberlaine
07-01-2011, 02:09 AM
What I want to know is, after seeing the visions of the reaper invasions, why the hell are they all giant squid? After blowing up the human reaper, it is revealed that reapers take the shape of the species they exterminate. They did a twist with that human reaper, but still it would mean that there are many other reapers out there that look like protheans and other ancient-extinct species.

And Harbinger is totally a squid.
From an interview with ME3 lead writer Mac Walters:

Why do most of the Reapers we’ve seen so far have similar insect-like appearances? The human Reaper looked different, but otherwise it seems like the Reapers mainly build themselves out of bugs. Is that correct?
The exterior of the Reapers does follow a similar pattern, an efficient design for the purpose they were created for. However each Reaper is created from a unique species, and as we saw at the end of Mass Effect 2, the core of each Reaper is designed in the likeness of that species.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/04/21/mass-effect-a-q-amp-a-for-hardcore-fans.aspx?PostPageIndex=1

So apparently inside every squid is a unique species of reaper. The human reaper would have put on a squid exoskeleton when complete, like all the others.

ZekkouAkuma
07-02-2011, 06:01 AM
You know I was beginning to wonder the human Reaper was so much different looking than the fleet of the other Reapers shown at the end of the game... Sure makes a lot of sense as well. I wonder what Sovereign's alien form was. =o