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View Full Version : 500 home runs or 3,000 hits??


shadow sniper
06-29-2007, 04:27 AM
today craig biggio got his 3,000 hit and tied the game at 1 and frank tomas got his 500 homer in the 1st to give the blue jays a 4-0 lead(they still lost!!).so what do you think is harder to get and whats the bigger story 500 or 3,000??????

Krazie
06-29-2007, 04:38 AM
Bigger story? 500 Home Runs, in my opinion. Thats THE stat for hitters it seems like people are always interested in. It's the most exciting thing in baseball, so hitting 500 in your career is a huge deal.

Most important? I'd say 3000 hits. It's harder these days for someone to stay in the league long enough to get 3000 hits. There are more power hitters these days, so 500 home runs will occur more often down the road, but 3000 hits is a huge milestone in this day and age. The only other active hitter in the league that is in the top 50 in hits is none other than Barry Bonds, and he doesnt even have 3000 hits even though he'll have the most home runs EVER. So, definitely, 3000 hits is more important. Someone that can get on base that much is a huge asset, power hitters are everywhere these days.

Hulking Bubba65
06-29-2007, 04:43 AM
i agree with you on this one, Krazie,because like you said there are power hitters everywhere today and not that many people will stay in the league long enough to ever reach 3000, but 500 home runs is more of a statistic so its really your own opinion whether you think 3000 hits is a bigger milestone then 500 home runs.I personally think 3000 is the more exclusive club to be a part of

shadow sniper
06-29-2007, 04:45 AM
Bigger story? 500 Home Runs, in my opinion. Thats THE stat for hitters it seems like people are always interested in. It's the most exciting thing in baseball, so hitting 500 in your career is a huge deal.

Most important? I'd say 3000 hits. It's harder these days for someone to stay in the league long enough to get 3000 hits. There are more power hitters these days, so 500 home runs will occur more often down the road, but 3000 hits is a huge milestone in this day and age. The only other active hitter in the league that is in the top 50 in hits is none other than Barry Bonds, and he doesnt even have 3000 hits even though he'll have the most home runs EVER. So, definitely, 3000 hits is more important. Someone that can get on base that much is a huge asset, power hitters are everywhere these days.

i say yes to everything you sayed but i think 3000 will be the bigger story when we wake up in this case we know that frank is not on steroids but cuz of all the players that took or didnt take i dont think fans care as much about 500 also when you have a guy going 4 the most of all time i dont think many people are gonna care about a guy hiting 500.......AND WHO DOSENT LOVE BIGGIO LOL

KewlBrettC
06-29-2007, 05:43 AM
3000 hits has been achieved by fewer people then the 21 who have achieved 500 home runs so.... i'd say its a bigger deal that craig did that

Clipse 2
06-29-2007, 07:22 AM
3000 hits is the bigger story and the bigger accomplishment in this day and age of baseball. As of this the start of the season I want to say 4 or more players have the chance to hit their 500th home run this year. There have been three occassions when two players have hit their 500th in the same year, but never has there been more than two. The fact that if the 4 or 5 do hit their 500th home runs this year it will overshadow Biggio's 3000 hits but this is the Home Run ball era and 500 is just a minor accomlishment anymore.

SegaSaturnSNK
06-29-2007, 01:55 PM
I'm going for Ichiro (Japanese dude from Seattle) to get over 4 thousand hits if he plays till he's like 45 lol.

Vista
06-29-2007, 03:09 PM
3,000 hits...no doubt, homeruns are so easy these days with steroids there is a definite chance any slugger can easily hit 500 homers

xInsanExSniper
06-29-2007, 03:16 PM
Yeah 3,000 hits for sure.

Shaaady Souljah
06-29-2007, 03:20 PM
3000 hits has been achieved by fewer people then the 21 who have achieved 500 home runs so.... i'd say its a bigger deal that craig did that

Biggio was the 27th with 3000 hits. More have that milestone...

HOWEVER, over the next 5-10 years the 500 HR club will be growing rapidly, whereas there are not a lot of guys on track for 3000 hits left at the moment.

Home Runs are more exciting. 3,000 hits are more nastalgic.

Cyrex
06-29-2007, 03:30 PM
i would say that the Homeru category will grow rapidly, soon it will be the 600 club because there will be too many people in the 500 homeruns, hits take a while to get and you need more of them

Shaaady Souljah
06-29-2007, 03:54 PM
here you go... interesting stats to consider. all of those in the hunt (except Bonds who could do it in one more probably) for 3,000 will have to play at least 3 more seasons. Griffey could, but I doubt the others will last to get there.

Barry Bonds - 2896
Julio Franco - 2575
Steve Finley - 2548
Omar Vizquel - 2532
Ken Griffey, Jr. - 2487

There are a lot of younger guys that could do it, but they will have to have many more good consistent years. So no more members for AT LEAST 3 or 4 more years.

For Home Runs:

Alex Rodriguez - 492
Jim Thome - 482
Manny Ramirez - 481
Gary Sheffield - 473

A-Rod will get it this year, of course. And Thome and Ramirez (and maybe Sheffield) will get it the following year (if not this year). So at least 3 more members in the next year or so.

ilski
06-29-2007, 08:13 PM
Thanks for putting up those stats Shady.

Like has been said already, these days 500 homers takes a lot less time than it used to (attribute that to whatever you want). 3,000 hits take about 20 seasons if you are a consistent hitter.

Let's take Bonds for an example. He's nearing 20 seasons. He may end up with 3,000 hits and he will be the home run king (until A-Rod takes it several years down the road), but he also is in like the top 5 all time strikeout leaders with something like 2,600. He's also way up there in walks. I don't know where I'm going with this...

I think there are only two people with 3,000 hits and 500 homers and they are Eddie Murray and Rafael Palmeiro.

Jdm
06-29-2007, 11:49 PM
Bigger story? 500 Home Runs, in my opinion. Thats THE stat for hitters it seems like people are always interested in. It's the most exciting thing in baseball, so hitting 500 in your career is a huge deal.

Most important? I'd say 3000 hits. It's harder these days for someone to stay in the league long enough to get 3000 hits. There are more power hitters these days, so 500 home runs will occur more often down the road, but 3000 hits is a huge milestone in this day and age. The only other active hitter in the league that is in the top 50 in hits is none other than Barry Bonds, and he doesnt even have 3000 hits even though he'll have the most home runs EVER. So, definitely, 3000 hits is more important. Someone that can get on base that much is a huge asset, power hitters are everywhere these days.

Couldn't have said it better myself, Krazie. I agree.

So the question is, Which is Harder to get? Exactly what Krazie said..."It's harder these days for someone to stay in the league long enough to get 3000 hits." That's my answer, 3000 Hits.

Congrats to Biggio and the "Big Hurt" for achieving those Milestones!

P.S. Shouldn't there be a Poll installed for this thread?

shadow sniper
06-29-2007, 11:58 PM
Couldn't have said it better myself, Krazie. I agree.

So the question is, Which is Harder to get? Exactly what Krazie said..."It's harder these days for someone to stay in the league long enough to get 3000 hits." That's my answer, 3000 Hits.

Congrats to Biggio and the "Big Hurt" for achieving those Milestones!

P.S. Shouldn't there be a Poll installed for this thread?

awwww man thats a rly good idea ill have to put a poll next time something like this happins

Jdm
06-30-2007, 12:22 AM
awwww man thats a rly good idea ill have to put a poll next time something like this happins

PM L3gion about it and he can install a Poll for you.;)

Krazie
06-30-2007, 12:36 AM
PM L3gion about it and he can install a Poll for you.;)

Or you coulda asked the Super Mod who is active in this thread..

Poll added. :p

Jdm
06-30-2007, 12:39 AM
Or you coulda asked the Super Mod who is active in this thread..

Poll added. :p

Sorry Super Mod, Krazie. I thought only certain Mods, like L3gion can do it. Please forgive me.:bow:

You know which one I voted for, Krazie. 3000 Hits.

Shaaady Souljah
06-30-2007, 12:45 AM
it is only certain Mods... the Supers. ;)

Krazie, L3gion, Erton, P1Nseeker, admins...

Krazie
06-30-2007, 12:55 AM
Sorry Super Mod, Krazie. I thought only certain Mods, like L3gion can do it. Please forgive me.:bow:

You know which one I voted for, Krazie. 3000 Hits.

Well lucky for you, i am one of those "certain" mods..

Jdm
06-30-2007, 01:00 AM
it is only certain Mods... the Supers. ;)

Krazie, L3gion, Erton, P1Nseeker, admins...

Well lucky for you, i am one of those "certain" mods..

Thanks for the heads up guys! I will no longer make those mistakes. Man, you guys are making me nervous...:mods


Back to the topic,
I'm sure Bonds will not retire after this season. He will break the all-time HR record, but will he get 3K hits if he were to play next season? That's a tough call.

Shaaady Souljah
06-30-2007, 01:13 AM
i think he will get to 3000, as long as he stays healthy for one more full season. people will have no reason to pitch around him and walk him anymore. he will not be the home run threat he once was, and pitchers will not be afraid of giving up "that homerun".

ilski
06-30-2007, 01:29 AM
i think he will get to 3000, as long as he stays healthy for one more full season. people will have no reason to pitch around him and walk him anymore. he will not be the home run threat he once was, and pitchers will not be afraid of giving up "that homerun".

Maybe, maybe not. He is still being pitched around damn near every game this year. He leads the league in on base percentage.

I R GODZILLA
06-30-2007, 04:36 AM
Congrats to both of them, but Biggio's 3000 is bigger. The 3000 hit club is a lot more exclusive than the 500 Home Run club. Good job Big Hurt anyway.

MadDog2010
06-30-2007, 06:47 AM
Bigger story? 500 Home Runs, in my opinion. Thats THE stat for hitters it seems like people are always interested in. It's the most exciting thing in baseball, so hitting 500 in your career is a huge deal.

Most important? I'd say 3000 hits. It's harder these days for someone to stay in the league long enough to get 3000 hits. There are more power hitters these days, so 500 home runs will occur more often down the road, but 3000 hits is a huge milestone in this day and age. The only other active hitter in the league that is in the top 50 in hits is none other than Barry Bonds, and he doesnt even have 3000 hits even though he'll have the most home runs EVER. So, definitely, 3000 hits is more important. Someone that can get on base that much is a huge asset, power hitters are everywhere these days.

Got to agree with you too Krazy. Homeruns are more respected in baseball.

Wandering Proof
06-30-2007, 11:49 PM
Krazie pretty much said it best, while the long ball is what people watch for, and ultimately care about, I think that the 3k hits is something that is much more rare and respectable. You always hear about the guys that hit the big ones, but let mention is there for the ones who constantly get on base and give their team a chance to win.

ilski
07-01-2007, 07:05 AM
People keep posting that they think 3,000 hits is more rare than 500 homers.

27 people are in the 3,000 hit club...including Bernie Mac yo.
21 people are in the 500 homer club.

Do the Math...

By the way this information was posted already in this thread. And I might be wrong but I think there are only two people in both clubs. Eddie Murray and Rafael Palmeiro.

Wandering Proof
07-01-2007, 07:18 AM
People keep posting that they think 3,000 hits is more rare than 500 homers.

27 people are in the 3,000 hit club...including Bernie Mac yo.
21 people are in the 500 homer club.

Do the Math...

By the way this information was posted already in this thread. And I might be wrong but I think there are only two people in both clubs. Eddie Murray and Rafael Palmeiro.

While you make a valid point you also should think about the evolution of the game.

While the long ball used to be important in the game in the past, players didn't aim to be a long ball hitter. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it wasn't the focus of the game on the offensive side. That has since changed, more and more people are trying to attain that, even if it means cheating to get there. Hence all the steroid usage.

We are a culture that has become obsessed with the glitz and glam of the big play, and not the little ones that made that possible. So players will continue to strive to be the player everyone is watching. You can't do that with a great batting average and only a few knocks a year.

I would expect in the next 15 years you will see less players in the 3000 club and many more in the 500 club. At least they will come closer to breaking even.

I PhAsE I
07-01-2007, 01:08 PM
3,000 hits is a big achievement. Too bad biggio got tagged out on his 3,000th hit but he did get 5 hits that night

Dropkick Weasel
07-08-2007, 04:08 AM
3,000 hits I think, even though more people have done it, I still think it takes more talent.

deej brutal
07-08-2007, 05:59 AM
3000 hits i think are more impressive, not taking away anything from 500 homers but i think 3000 hits has a slight edge. especially to do that for just playing with one team his whole career? thats something else

Conker Rules All
07-08-2007, 06:22 AM
i thought the poll was very predicable because it's just hard these days to see a player get a hit every time their up to bat when it's not so hard to say that 1 out of 6 is a homerun because in my career i would rather get even 2,000 hits than 500 homeruns

ilski
07-08-2007, 06:41 AM
i thought the poll was very predicable because it's just hard these days to see a player get a hit every time their up to bat when it's not so hard to say that 1 out of 6 is a homerun because in my career i would rather get even 2,000 hits than 500 homeruns

Despite the awful grammatical make-up of your post I gather what you are trying to say so let me say this.

In a full season a player will get from 500 - 700 at bats (usually comfortably in the low to mid 600 range). Good hitters get over a hundred hits every season. Great hitters get around 200 a season.

Try 1 out of 12 at-bats and you're much closer to the truth. In maybe a dozen or two players in the majors in any given season.

Well it is your career... :woop:
EDIT: There are over 250 players with 2,000+ hits. And at least a dozen more over the next year or two. And 21 with 500 homers. Although there are likely 3 more people joining that club this year.

Wolf
07-09-2007, 12:53 AM
I'm much more interested in a BABIP than merely hits or home runs. Biggio has been just awful lately; 3000 hits is achieved through longevity, not greatness. 500 homers is also misleading. How many triples does Bonds have this year? The BABIP number leaves only the important information. It's the batting average of balls that aren't home runs, so you're going to see the effects of Biggio going 1 for 5 with a bloop single and players like Jose Canseco and Barry Bonds who rely or relied almost exclusively on home runs to build up their batting average. BABIP tells me the quality of a player on a day to day basis, not based on merits from flashy stats or just playing forever.

ilski
07-09-2007, 04:54 AM
3000 hits is achieved through longevity, not greatness. 500 homers is also misleading. How many triples does Bonds have this year?...

Of course it takes awhile to get the hits, but that does not diminish the accomplishment. If it were simply longevity there were be a hell of a lot more people with 3,000 hits than 27.

Misleading in reference to what?

Bonds has 0 triples this year. But he is one of only 4 or 5 active players in the top 300 in triples in a career. He has 77. And before you go and say how low that number is, lets do a comparison.
Ty Cobb is second all-time in triples with 295 in 24 seasons. He also hit 117 home runs. As opposed to Bonds soon to be 760+ homers and 77 triples in 22 seasons...

Bonds is in the top 10 of almost every career hitting category (don't look at his strikeouts or batting average...although a lifetime .299 ain't that bad). He will be number 1 in a half dozen before he is through. He is the only player to steal 500 bases and hit 500 homers in a career. You can't deny what the man has done.

shadow sniper
07-09-2007, 05:16 AM
Of course it takes awhile to get the hits, but that does not diminish the accomplishment. If it were simply longevity there were be a hell of a lot more people with 3,000 hits than 27.

Misleading in reference to what?

Bonds has 0 triples this year. But he is one of only 4 or 5 active players in the top 300 in triples in a career. He has 77. And before you go and say how low that number is, lets do a comparison.
Ty Cobb is second all-time in triples with 295 in 24 seasons. He also hit 117 home runs. As opposed to Bonds soon to be 760+ homers and 77 triples in 22 seasons...

Bonds is in the top 10 of almost every career hitting category (don't look at his strikeouts or batting average...although a lifetime .299 ain't that bad). He will be number 1 in a half dozen before he is through. He is the only player to steal 500 bases and hit 500 homers in a career. You can't deny what the man has done.



yes you can deny what the man has done with 1 word "BALCO".im not saying he used,im just saying that will be sayed over and over when the call to the hall comes.also even so you didnt say it barry is no way the best of all time.

Shaaady Souljah
07-09-2007, 05:38 AM
its a shame the steroids have clouded his reputation... he would've still been a hall of famer without using them (and yes, he did use them. regardless of whether it is ever proven. someone that far along in their career can not broaden out like that in their chest and arms in such a short time.)

no one i have ever been alive to watch bat has the same pitch-recognition as bonds. he is/was amazing. he would've still probably hit 600+ maybe even more without the juice, so its a shame it ruined his rep. he would be in the hall either way.

Wolf
07-09-2007, 09:16 PM
Of course it takes awhile to get the hits, but that does not diminish the accomplishment. If it were simply longevity there were be a hell of a lot more people with 3,000 hits than 27.

Misleading in reference to what?

Bonds has 0 triples this year. But he is one of only 4 or 5 active players in the top 300 in triples in a career. He has 77. And before you go and say how low that number is, lets do a comparison.
Ty Cobb is second all-time in triples with 295 in 24 seasons. He also hit 117 home runs. As opposed to Bonds soon to be 760+ homers and 77 triples in 22 seasons...

Bonds is in the top 10 of almost every career hitting category (don't look at his strikeouts or batting average...although a lifetime .299 ain't that bad). He will be number 1 in a half dozen before he is through. He is the only player to steal 500 bases and hit 500 homers in a career. You can't deny what the man has done.


Let's put it this way about the 3000 hits club: if a person plays for 25 years at a slightly sub-par rate, he'll get it. Look at Julio Franco. I bet they've already got the plaque printed for him in Cooperstown. Yeah, it's a hell of a lot easier to get a triple when you're muscles aren't so jacked that walking is a chore, isn't it? Ty Cobb is so much of a better player than bonds could ever be. Hitting 20 homers in his era was an outstanding season. The ball didn't travel far. He'd be in the 500 club no question of they used modern balls. Listen, it'd be great if Bonds was still at the top of his game but he simply traded it all in for glory stats. He'd have made the Hall of Fame if he didn't use steroids. Now he'll get in when he breaks the record, but not if he dies tomorrow. I guess I can't deny what he did, but I can very clearly put an asterisk next to it, as many others do already.

messym
07-09-2007, 10:56 PM
3000 hits is definitely the bigger achievement but how many people know who Craig Biggio is?? I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything but he has be one of the least known 3000 hits guys in MLB history. With 3000 hits you should be a 1st ballot HOFer, wouldn't you agree? That being said, I think Frank Thomas will make it into the hall quicker than Craig. If Craig played in a major market like L.A., NY, or Boston I think people would have paid much more attention.

Tron
07-10-2007, 03:09 PM
Of course it takes awhile to get the hits, but that does not diminish the accomplishment. If it were simply longevity there were be a hell of a lot more people with 3,000 hits than 27.

Misleading in reference to what?

Bonds has 0 triples this year. But he is one of only 4 or 5 active players in the top 300 in triples in a career. He has 77. And before you go and say how low that number is, lets do a comparison.
Ty Cobb is second all-time in triples with 295 in 24 seasons. He also hit 117 home runs. As opposed to Bonds soon to be 760+ homers and 77 triples in 22 seasons...

Bonds is in the top 10 of almost every career hitting category (don't look at his strikeouts or batting average...although a lifetime .299 ain't that bad). He will be number 1 in a half dozen before he is through. He is the only player to steal 500 bases and hit 500 homers in a career. You can't deny what the man has done.



im going to agree with ilski here... the main thing with Bonds, and i hate to say it but its true... pre steriods, he was still a HOFer... thats the kick in the pants... even if he hadnt used, he would still be considered for the HOF...


and i believe that the 3000 hits marks and 500 HR are great, but i think a better accomplishment is what Ripken did... once its all said and done, whoever helped their team more gets the "better achievement" award from me...

for example, my reds lead the league in HR's but they are one of the worst teams in baseball, i dont think their HRs should be celebrated... if bonds hit 4 hrs and his team still lost, they dont mean anything in my book.

ilski
07-10-2007, 05:56 PM
i... once its all said and done, whoever helped their team more gets the "better achievement" award from me...



At the end of the day you would just like to see your team win. And by your team I mean my team. The New York Mets.

Tron
07-10-2007, 06:32 PM
thursday it is.

Rand al Thor 19
07-11-2007, 01:16 AM
3000 hits is much more impressive in this era of steriod use.