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View Full Version : Am I the only one who thinks the achievement limit for Arcade games is outdated?


Gamechamp
06-19-2011, 06:04 AM
It was totally fine back when the 360 first came out; most of the Arcade games were, well, arcade games. Short things where you generally just do the same thing over and over again trying to last longer or get a higher score, etc, or even literal ports of arcade games.

Nowadays, it's not rare to get an Arcade game with more depth than even most retail games, especially with the ports of previous generation games, like Sonic Adventure and Beyond Good and Evil. The achievement restrictions are limiting any cool achievements we could get, as well as making the time put in for the achievements VERY out of proportion with what you'd see in a retail game.

For example, Serious Sam's campaign takes about 10 hours in one's first playthrough of Serious difficulty (assuming you're not glitching out of levels), AND you have to play through the game several times to get every achievement. After putting about 8 hours into the game, I have 15 points and 2 achievements. After putting about 1 hour into a retail game, Oblivion, I have 50 points and a single achievement. Not to mention Serious Sam is about ten metric ****tons harder. While I understand that most games are already out of proportion anyways (Avatar, for example), it's not helping when Microsoft's restrictions ENFORCE unproportionality.

mjc0961
06-19-2011, 06:15 AM
I think part of the problem is expecting the point value to reflect challenge in the first place. Take both Dead Rising games, they just hand out 50 20 point achievements, making something as easy as creating a combo weapon worth the same amount as killing 72,000 zombies.

Plus you could go further and say that something like Avatar shouldn't be able to hand out the same 1,000 that you would get from Lost Planet 2 which is apparently hard enough to be named the hardest 1,000 of 2010 as far as this site's Achievement Awards are concerned. That's not proportional either.

The only way I could see to solve the "problem" is to just take out GamerScore altogether and do it more like Steam achievements. No points (or trophies which make that whole proportion thing even harder), just this:
http://steamcommunity.com/stats/Portal/achievements/
That lets you know, if you're the sort of person who cares about such things, that Lab Rat is a run-of-the-mill easy achievement, but if anyone has Aperture Science, they're damn good.

Alternatively, we could just stop thinking about it so much and enjoy GamerScore for what it is, because honestly I don't see any way to "fix" it as long as it's still there.

Gamechamp
06-19-2011, 07:02 AM
It's not so much gamerscore that I'm worried about so much as it is the number of achievements. Spreading out 12 achievements over a 100 hour epic is hard. They basically only get to have achievements for the basic stuff like beating the game. Less fun stuff like, say, Little Rocket Man in The Orange Box. That achievement forces you to play the entire game in an unorthodox way that likely nobody would have ever done if the achievement had not existed. And it is AWESOME. If The Orange Box only had 12 achievements, I doubt we'd have ever seen one as creative as Little Rocket Man.

Son of Kyuss
06-19-2011, 07:31 AM
More arcade games are breaking the standard 12 achievement limit upon release. Perfect Dark was one of, if not, the first to have 20 achievements right out of the gate.

I do agree that bigger games SHOULD have more achievements by default. Games like Banjo-Kazooie, Beyond Good and Evil, Serious Sam, have such potential for fun achievements that it is a damn shame we're given 12 bog standard achievements.

mjc0961
06-19-2011, 07:40 AM
It's not so much gamerscore that I'm worried about so much as it is the number of achievements. Spreading out 12 achievements over a 100 hour epic is hard. They basically only get to have achievements for the basic stuff like beating the game. Less fun stuff like, say, Little Rocket Man in The Orange Box. That achievement forces you to play the entire game in an unorthodox way that likely nobody would have ever done if the achievement had not existed. And it is AWESOME. If The Orange Box only had 12 achievements, I doubt we'd have ever seen one as creative as Little Rocket Man.
Oh, I see. I misunderstood, as I've already seen arcade games with more than 12 achievements. Kyuss already mentioned Perfect Dark, and Costume Quest had 15 base achievements and 5 more added via DLC for another total of 20.

It would be nice if more games would use a few more achievements, since it certainly seems possible that they could. I wonder if you need to have a special requirement to get more than 12, or if all games can do it and more devs don't simply because everyone is so used to 12 being the standard.

Gravedigger31133
06-19-2011, 11:14 AM
I agree. Recently Section 8: Prejudice came out and the arcade version has 20 for 200G while the pc version has 50 for 1000G. I see alot of games having more than 12 achievements but i believe that arcade games should be able to have more than 200G on launch.

GR4V1G0R3
06-19-2011, 01:30 PM
actualy a fair few games have had more than the 12 achievements

perfect dark was the first i remember, i'm sure they stopped enforcing the rule a year ago, just didn't tell any game studios

limits are ridiculous, just have what the game needs, not putting in extra crap / removing stuff to keep within the boundaries. serious sam could've had some amazing achievements, but being limited to 12 sorta killed them off

bah, git, now you've gona and got me all excited about serious sam 3 again, damnit, it takes me about a week to calm down

H0p3sfalL
06-19-2011, 01:37 PM
Think they should just up the achievement score to 400 or 500.

Foxxy kyle
06-19-2011, 06:03 PM
Think they should just up the achievement score to 400 or 500.

Yeah I agree I think they should put it up to 500g

StillTIPPIN187
06-19-2011, 06:21 PM
I feel like XBLA games should start requireing 400G instead of 200G.

And let WP7 take over the 200G ones.

Probably will never happen.. but its just my thoughts and i really dont have much reasoning for it either. xD

Death Metal Jim
06-19-2011, 06:45 PM
It's definitely an outdated system. I completely agree with everyone in here about upping the gamerscore from 200 to 400. A game like Castlevania: Symphony Of The Night or Castle Crashers should definitely be more than 200 gs each. And think of how much cooler Splosion Man would have been if they had doubled both the achievements and gamerscore. I bet they could have come up with some really crazy ass achievements if given the chance.

GrimSovereignty
06-19-2011, 09:08 PM
I think they should have add some more or increase the overall gamerscore...but not by a lot just maybe up to 500 or 600

Doctor Gordon
06-19-2011, 09:30 PM
Agree, the coin coop achievement from serious sam the second encounter (playing all the campaign in coop from beginning to end, it take like 6 hours non stop) is only for 15G, in prince of persia classic the survivor one (finishing the full game without dying once) is for 25G and in james bond bloodstone you desactivate 3 security cams and you get already 20G, seriously....