PDA

View Full Version : Library & Analyze Feature not available to those who don't own Kinect


Nevander
10-25-2011, 02:27 AM
Just read on the hands-on preview (LINK TO ARTICLE (http://www.xbox360achievements.org/news/news-9919-Halo--Combat-Evolved-Anniversary-Hands-On---Re-Mastering-Master-Chief.html)) that came out that those who do not own Kinect are not able to use the analyze feature, nor the Library feature.

From the article:

Say “analyse” with your reticule aimed at a foe or a point of interest in the environment and you’ll be transported to Anniversary’s Library feature. By populating the library you can access full text information detailing the object in question, while also viewing a rotatable 3D model of it on-screen. It’s a cool little feature, one that players invested in the lore and inhabitants of Halo will no doubt be fascinated by. It is, however, a feature available exclusively for Kinect owners.

I for one think this is, pardon my French, bullshit.

One person commented that:

Why cant we use the libary with a controller? stupid microsoft trying to make me buy a kinect

I for one, agree with this person.

This guy, however, said in response:

Really dude? First off there are NO Kinect related achievements. Period. If you want to see the libary, (its spelled library btw) then look up a video on youtube or buy a kinect. They aren't greedy as much as just rewarding those who have it.

I mean, he does have a point, but, my opinion is that:

This is BULLSHIT.

I completely agree with you #40, these other people don't know what they are saying.

You should NOT have to dish out extra money to buy a piece of extra equipment, whether it be for achievements or not, to get access to all the features of the game.

Stupid Microsoft indeed. You're not getting more of my $$$ just to let me use a feature that is IN THE GAME. FFS what is the world coming to?

Who else agrees with me, or doesn't?

I set up a poll. Should Microsoft/343/Saber, whoever, allow us without Kinect to use this feature also? Is it unfair/cheating us without it?

Thanks for reading.

Ty-Rex
10-25-2011, 02:42 AM
Oh man, Microsoft trying to make money by making certain features exclusive?

You don't say!

And can people please stop saying, "It's in the game that we bought so we deserve it!" like it's actually some sort of valid argument? If it's meant to be an exclusive to some sort of hardware, then that's what it was made for. Better it to be an exclusive that some people can use than not exist at all.

It's just a small novelty that 343 put into the game. It's not like you can't throw a grenade or reload without a Kinect.

RBmaster9345
10-25-2011, 02:46 AM
Its a cool feature for sure (reminds me a lot of Metroid Prime which I loved) but I'm not about to rage that I dont have a kinect to use it, I have a friend who DOES so we'll be scanning to our hearts content :D

Nevander
10-25-2011, 03:03 AM
And can people please stop saying, "It's in the game that we bought so we deserve it!" like it's actually some sort of valid argument?

It is a valid argument, and here's why:

If we, the consumer, pay money for the game, we should be entitled to be able to use ALL features and access ALL content that is contained on the disk.

Same problem with DLC nowadays, they charge extra for stuff that is ALREADY on the disk.

It's just plain stupid. It's all about money, I believe it's called "money grubbing."

DEG23
10-25-2011, 03:32 AM
It is a valid argument, and here's why:

If we, the consumer, pay money for the game, we should be entitled to be able to use ALL features and access ALL content that is contained on the disk.

Same problem with DLC nowadays, they charge extra for stuff that is ALREADY on the disk.

It's just plain stupid. It's all about money, I believe it's called "money grubbing."

While i agree with your premise i can't help but say, if you feel that strongly about companies "money grubbing" then you could always boycott the product.

I was disappointed about the kinect only feature but i am looking forward to reliving the amazing campaign more so i will still buy this.

Personally i don't buy DLC anymore unless it is truly epic, (GTA episodes for example) and i will seriously think twice about buying gameing companies that lock content continously.

crazy W01f 816
10-25-2011, 03:37 AM
I really, really don't care about this library feature. Any info I would find could be found on the internet a few days later. I guess I don't get why people are so hot headed over this. It's just a useless bio feature; if it was an entire game mode that I could see getting angry over, but not this.

SuperSkyline89
10-25-2011, 03:38 AM
And can people please stop saying, "It's in the game that we bought so we deserve it!" like it's actually some sort of valid argument? If it's meant to be an exclusive to some sort of hardware, then that's what it was made for. Better it to be an exclusive that some people can use than not exist at all.

Well then I hope you like it when every new game that comes out has more and more Kinect exclusive features because that's where this is going.

It's a feature on the game I'm going to pay for, and unlike Xbox LIVE it has no maintenance or infrastructure costs, so damn right I "deserve" it. I'm not going to get all crazy about it because it is a small feature and it won't affect the main reason I want the game. But I'm also not going to sit back and keep my opinion to myself because game developers aren't our friends, they're just companies selling us a product, we don't owe them anything.

Halo is a huge part of my gaming but if the games include an increasing number of Kinect exclusive features I'll stop buying completely. I stopped buying from EA, and I can just as easily stop buying from 343.

DarkReign2021
10-25-2011, 03:47 AM
In my opinion, I think this is fair. Here's why:

1. People without a Kinect CAN look it up on Youtube or Halopedia.

2. ALL of the information is probably going to be stuff we already know anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if they just go to Halopedia or Waypoint and rip excerpts directly from them.

3. It adds absolutely nothing to the core game. No gameplay changes, no storyline changes, nothing. So therefore, people are not missing out on the original game or the updated content. Simply a new added piece of content.

4. This is no different than Pre-order bonuses or Collector's Edition content. Exclusive armors, weapons, and levels are offered all the time to people that are willing to pay the additional fee. For instance, the flaming Warthog, Sgt. Johnson skin, Flaming Helmet, Unicorn Elite armor, etc... The only difference is instead of paying a new fee every time time a new game comes out, those who plunked down the $150 for a kinect are getting content across multiple games now.

5. Kinect Users are entitled to exclusive content. Microsoft is a business. They're out to make money. Naturally they're making more money off of the people (like me) who were willing to pay to get a Kinect. So naturally they're going to give us more content to make the Kinect worth owning. Just like in Halo 3 when people bitched about being forced to own DLC packs to play in matchmaking. People who bought DLC were making Bungie more money, so naturally they're going to cater to those fans (something Reach really fucked up since I NEVER get to play on the new maps outside of the single crappy DLC playlist.)

You can sit here and get mad because they're going to cut out access to features and gameplay that you can't use without the Kinect, but than what do you call all of these Kinect games already on the market? Are you mad because you can't play Dance Central? What about Kinectimals or Kinect Sports or Steel Battalion or Rise of Nightmares. Any game that cuts out core content is required to be listed as Kinect exclusive even if it still uses a controller in it's gameplay (look at Steel Battalion for example.) Minor little features like this scan mode aren't going to even register on the radar because it's not hurting anybody but the diehards who must have everything. And any diehard that must have everything is going to go out and buy a Kinect for just such an occasion.



Honestly I doubt I'm even going to use the Scan mode much myself anyway. As everybody on these boards knows, I'm a walking, breathing Halopedia, so I don't need to go around scanning things for any purpose other than the novelty of the idea. I suspect, however, that this is more of a test as a feature to be added to Halo 4. It would fit well in a game that is meant to be re-inventing the mystery of the series. I don't believe, however, the Halo 4 Scan feature will be Kinect exclusive. I feel it will be an integral part of the Halo lore in the coming Reclaimer trilogy, which means everybody is going to need access to it.

Ty-Rex
10-25-2011, 05:14 AM
It is a valid argument, and here's why:

If we, the consumer, pay money for the game, we should be entitled to be able to use ALL features and access ALL content that is contained on the disk.
What you need to understand is, this wasn't made for people without Kinect. It is a Kinect exclusive feature. If you don't have a Kinect, you don't get it. Whether it has the capacity to operate outside of a Kinect doesn't matter. All that matters is that it was made only for people with a Kinect. If you don't have a Kinect, you aren't entitled to a thing.

Same problem with DLC nowadays, they charge extra for stuff that is ALREADY on the disk.
You know what you are getting when you buy the game. If you still don't like the fact that people who paid for some superfluous piece of hardware get a bonus, then like DEG said, protest it and don't buy the game.

It's just plain stupid. It's all about money, I believe it's called "money grubbing."
Look, I don't like getting nickeled and dimed for little pieces of DLC and things like that too, but this is something that was just made for specific people. It wasn't made for everyone, so it's not something I feel like I'm missing out on. It seems like you and a few other people do, but we didn't buy the stupid peripheral, so we just don't get the extras, plain and simple.


Well then I hope you like it when every new game that comes out has more and more Kinect exclusive features because that's where this is going.
I would either not care enough to be bothered, or just buy a Kinect if I wanted them that badly. Oh no, Microsoft wins, they got my money. Looks like the corporations win again!

It's a feature on the game I'm going to pay for, and unlike Xbox LIVE it has no maintenance or infrastructure costs, so damn right I "deserve" it. I'm not going to get all crazy about it because it is a small feature and it won't affect the main reason I want the game. But I'm also not going to sit back and keep my opinion to myself because game developers aren't our friends, they're just companies selling us a product, we don't owe them anything.
Please refer to my first reply to the first quote. You seem to have a good grasp of companies aren't your friends, so it's odd that you seem so upset that they are trying to get money from you.

Halo is a huge part of my gaming but if the games include an increasing number of Kinect exclusive features I'll stop buying completely. I stopped buying from EA, and I can just as easily stop buying from 343.
If you feel that strongly, then more power to you, man. Actions speak louder than words and all.

Morgan Everett
10-25-2011, 10:27 AM
When I buy a game, I expect to be given access to all its features. What I do not expect is to have certain features restricted until I buy a gimmicky piece of hardware to unlock them. This is Microsoft's pathetic approach to trying to entice the hardcore to buy: buy a kinect or we'll start disabling your game's features.

Utterly pathetic. The best form of protest is to refuse to buy a Kinect. They'll get the message eventually.

ZingZitang
10-25-2011, 04:33 PM
Just so We're Clear I Voted for Access to the Library without Kinect Because I want it for free, but I'm going to have to Agree with DarkReign for the most part.

Being a Self-Appointed Halo Expert like DarkReign, I have absolutely no need for the Library, but I still want it. With this, and Kinect integration in Mass Effect 3, I guess I'll finally go out and buy one.

lifeexpectancy
10-26-2011, 12:10 PM
While I too hate the kinect and don't like this trend, I have to agree that they have every right to exclude content that way. Microsoft probably put intense pressure on 343i to add a kinect feature that would simultaneously stimulate new kinect adopters via the system's flagship series while at the same time not alienating more than a minute portion of existing fans. Similar to the terminals, BOBs, etc, something that adds info/backstory to Halo will really only appeal to hardcore fans. Had they tied achievements to it they would've risked angering a much larger portion of the fan base. The evidence for this is anecdotal at best, but I believe it to be true. Even if the library function was usable via controller, I seriously doubt the vast majority of users would bother with it more than once or twice for the novelty.

Had they blocked access to any of the core game they most definately would've lost fanbase. This library concept is a stroke of genius simply because it fills their requirement to MS to push kinect sales while not really affecting the majority of the existing fanbase in a negative way.

Not only that, but there are people out there, those 'casual' gamers we all know at least one of, that own a kinect and have been looking for more kinect enabled titles that aren't shovelware. The added ability to throw grenades and reload via kinect, along with the $40 price tag and the fact that it's not a typical cheesy kinect title or rhythm/fitness/sports game, and you have a recipe to bring more new fans into the Halo universe at the series's start. If that happens, they may even take the plunge on Reach or Halo 4 in the future having been attracted to a 'core gamer' game based solely on features that use their 'casual gamer' peripheral.

Trust me, 343i did their homework on this one.

Walecs360
10-26-2011, 05:14 PM
I too hate

Same for me. I don't care about the library and things, but if the whole game was for kinect, I wouldn't buy it, not because I don't have money to buy kinect, I'd prefer to spend $300 for a controller version of Halo Anniversary then a kinect version of Halo Anniversary plus the kinect.

Fuck you micro$oft, we want a new Banjo or a new Conker, fuck kinect sports. RIP Rare.

Opiate42
10-26-2011, 07:15 PM
Don't have a Kinect, don't care, it's a nice addition but irrelevant to me.

I plan on playing the game start to finish in classic mode, outdated graphics and all.

Nevander
10-27-2011, 01:45 AM
I plan on playing the game start to finish in classic mode, outdated graphics and all.

Same here. I plan to do things in this order:


Campaign on Easy or Normal to just run through it again, while staying on Classic Mode.
Campaign again on Easy or Normal (most likely Normal if skulls only appear on Normal like in Halo 3) on HD Mode to get all skulls and terminals and to compare new graphics to old.
Go back on whatever difficulty to get some level-specific ones that I can do alone.
Co-op campaign on Legendary, while being in Classic Mode (to make the experience authentic).
Go back for any Legendary co-op stuff, or anything else I missed.

That should be the 1K.

lornesbored
10-27-2011, 02:27 PM
I don't really this being an issue with me at all, but the only thing 343 needs to look out for is turning into Epic... selling us an incomplete game then making us pay for the rest of it.

mickjsg
10-27-2011, 02:35 PM
Don't care, I'll use Halopedia for any Halo related info.

Veedrock
10-27-2011, 09:36 PM
I don't really this being an issue with me at all, but the only thing 343 needs to look out for is turning into Epic... selling us an incomplete game then making us pay for the rest of it.

What in the world about Anniversary inspired this comment? Frankly it is spontaneous, both unprovoked and unjustified. They've given no reason to worry about their motives and all you're going to do is cause paranoia.

===
Microsoft has made it entirely clear that they're not dropping Kinect and all first party titles will support it. There is no more excuse for being surprised at Kinect-exclusive content. You can go against the grain and complain all you want but the cold reality is that without Kinect you're going to miss out on things from now on.

Also I dislike the poll options and I refuse to vote; either you're hardcore anti-Kinect and have a terrible understanding of how digital rights work, or an elitist asshole that thinks you're entitled to more just because "you paid extra money." A simple "Yes" or "No" would be sufficient.

lornesbored
10-27-2011, 11:23 PM
All I'm saying is that they need to look out or they will start to be compared to Epic if they keep making it so you have to spend more $ to get the full experience out of their titles.

Kaiyo
10-29-2011, 03:32 AM
Don't care, I'll use Halopedia for any Halo related info.

There you go... lets use that instead of just the library in Halo CE: Anniversary.

123abc
10-29-2011, 08:54 AM
I got quoted! But still, it's put me off paying full price for it.

CaptFrost
10-29-2011, 09:49 PM
It's just a small novelty that 343 put into the game. It's not like you can't throw a grenade or reload without a Kinect.
Only because Microsoft can't get away with something that bad without generating too much bad blood.

This is just more proof that if those fuckers were a governmental entity, they'd be trying to come up with ways to tax you for the air you breathe.


I don't really this being an issue with me at all, but the only thing 343 needs to look out for is turning into Epic... selling us an incomplete game then making us pay for the rest of it.
The funny thing is Epic used to not be like that. They were big proponents of the school of thought all expansions (before the term "DLC" got coined) should be released freely unless they are major content upgrades.

Then they turned into a console developer and saw how much they could fleece people.

Emivader
10-30-2011, 02:16 AM
With or without them, I still lovin it, cause is a excellent game and that function doesn`t affect the history or the gameplay

DarkReign2021
10-30-2011, 06:53 PM
I refuse to accept the unison of 'DLC' and 'expansion' as they are, to me, not the same thing. If you ever look back through history, an expansion was never just an extra mission or a bonus level. Expansions are all-out. Whole new campaign, new storyline, new characters, etc... Brood War was an expansion. Hot Dates and Vacation were expansions. ODST was an expansion (Don't you fucking argue with me on that one.)

DLC, on the other hand, is just that. Small little does added to the content we already have. A few new guns or maybe an extra mission. They more often than not are not worth the time even glimpsing at them.

Now don't get me wrong, I love some DLCs like Lair of the Shadow Broker and Arrival on Mass Effect 2. They added some awesome goodies and advanced the storyline just a little bit for the sequel. But Expansions, a dying breed I'm afraid, will always be vastly superior. Shiver Isles, Solsetheim, and Mournhold for the Elder Scrolls series were true expansions (and I hope/pray they have one for Skyrim as well.) Even Dragon Age, a series I dislike, had a real expansion pack instead of just DLC add-ons like DA2 suffers from (I'm still disappointed to see no new Expansions with the Mass Effect series. Maybe ME3 will give us one.)

Nevander
10-30-2011, 07:05 PM
ODST was an expansion (Don't you fucking argue with me on that one.)

I agree. They should have called it Halo 2: ODST, and not 3. They only called it 3 because it was the up-to-date graphics probably, since the events of ODST happen at the same time as the Chief was on Earth in New Mombasa.

DarkReign2021
10-30-2011, 07:39 PM
I agree. They should have called it Halo 2: ODST, and not 3. They only called it 3 because it was the up-to-date graphics probably, since the events of ODST happen at the same time as the Chief was on Earth in New Mombasa.

I hate how they included the 3 at all. I could understand if it was just some added-on expansion calling it that since it's just DLC through that game, but it was a standalone title according to Bungie, so it simply should've been Halo: ODST ( or I would've prefered Halo: Recon. Don't know why they insisted on the name change. Recon is more fluent to speak out loud than ODST. Sounds like the acronym for some new kind of STD when I say it.)

ReverendSID
10-30-2011, 08:09 PM
Microsoft has made it entirely clear that they're not dropping Kinect and all first party titles will support it. There is no more excuse for being surprised at Kinect-exclusive content. You can go against the grain and complain all you want but the cold reality is that without Kinect you're going to miss out on things from now on.
Then Microsoft should start packaging the piece of crap in with the console. For free. If they're so dead set on making it a "standard" part of using their console, then it should BE a standard part of their console and not cost an extra $150.

And frankly, I see not one bit of sense in adding an element to a game that requires Kinect but only uses VOICE commands. They make these things called microphones that work just fine for picking up a voice. Then again, going off some of the reviews I've seen, maybe voice is all the Kinect is really good for anyway.

DarkReign2021
10-30-2011, 08:17 PM
I'm pretty sure it's packaged with 95% of the 360s on the market now. There area a few 360 slim SKUs that don't include it, but they majorly scaled back the product of those since it was released. The only real issue is that most of the fanbase isn't getting the 360 slim. A lot of people are sticking with their originals (not me. I had to have a slim. So much quieter now ^_^ plus I needed a bigger harddrive. 20 Gb wasn't cuttin it 5 years later.)

Vectorman953
10-30-2011, 11:38 PM
I'm in the same boat as DarkReign, in that I'm pretty sure the data that they have in the Library will just be ripped from halo wiki, which is one of my top ten visited bookmarks.

I'm in no way an expert on halo, but I really doubt any information that they have up to offer will be new to me.


As for my opinion on the kinect itself, if I could get it for free; great. The voice commands for movies look really usefull, and gunstringer looks like fun. In almost every other way though it looks kind of useless for me and thus paying $150 is kind of ridiculous: I don't have any children, so kinectimals is out, and I have a Y chromosome so the dancing games are out too.
I'm not really a fan of them lumping game features into using the kinect only (like Mass Effect 3's use of voice commands to team mates). I think allowing people to use the mic's (you know... the crappy ones that come with all xboxs when you first buy them) for the same features would be nice.

ReverendSID
10-31-2011, 06:17 AM
I'm pretty sure it's packaged with 95% of the 360s on the market now.
It's really not packaged in with many of the systems at all, and none for free. They have a Holiday Kinect bundle that's $100 more than their Holiday bundle. And they have the Star Wars Kinect bundle that's $450. The regular slim consoles with the big hard drives are $300. It's not packed in with the Modern Warfare 3 or Gears of War 3 consoles. You can get a 4gb console with the Kinect for $300, but then you'd have to spend another $100 or so to get a decent sized hard drive.

Yes, I realize they're in the business of making money. But it's a peripheral that's really useless in the eyes of a lot of their consumers. But instead of them realizing that and cutting their losses, they're trying to ram it down our throats. And at $150 standalone for folks who already have a console and don't want to buy another one, it's too much.

I'm not really a fan of them lumping game features into using the kinect only (like Mass Effect 3's use of voice commands to team mates). I think allowing people to use the mic's (you know... the crappy ones that come with all xboxs when you first buy them) for the same features would be nice.
See, that's what I'm saying. Using the Kinect for voice commands when nearly everyone who owns a 360 already has at least one mic laying around? Seriously?

Nami
11-02-2011, 04:28 AM
I have kinect but i highly doubt i will use it so it would be nice if everyone could access it

LickableLemons7
11-02-2011, 09:01 PM
Although I don't have a Kinect, I have come to a conclusion that a few others have. I believe that a majority of the information using the analyze feature will be stuff that we have already seen before. And I can find all the information I want on Halo Waypoint, Halopedia, etc. The only thing I'll be missing out on will be the actual motion/speech used for this function.