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eddywatson
03-08-2012, 09:28 PM
Hello

I have just completed MGS2, I have also completed it on the PS2 10 years ago. But I had forgotten all the story in that time ad I was wondering if somebody can help me out...

I understood most of the story up until you enter metal gear belly (when olga appears as the ninja ad it looks like snake turned on you and you wake up on some kind of torture table naked)

From that point on the game makes no sense... The whole Plant mission was like a VR training mission? and it was not real? to see if anybody was like snake to see if they could manage it? S3? Right at the end of the game snake and raiden were standing in the streets of NYC with members of the public walking past them... and not looking at them etc... this is because they were actually not there? like a VR mission?

please can some people help me out
Thank you

d0ct0rscarecr0w
03-09-2012, 01:47 AM
the reason no one noticed them is because it's New York and New Yorkers make a special effort not to notice anyone on the street.

What confuses me is the whole thing with Rose, was he talking to a computer version of her during the whole mission or just near the end?

KneehighPark
03-15-2012, 04:42 PM
The S3 mission's true intention was to test out the Patriot's AI systems, to see if they could accurately predict and control human behavior. The thing is, while it's not explicitly stated, the "Patriots" that are doing the behind the scenes work are mostly AI. The S3 was a test run for the AI.

Yes, when Colonel and Rose are talking to Raiden at the end, those are AI.

d0ct0rscarecr0w
03-16-2012, 12:37 AM
Yes, when Colonel and Rose are talking to Raiden at the end, those are AI.
what about during the mission?

Kivlov
03-17-2012, 09:31 PM
From what I took, Colonel was always AI, as he kept refering to certain things in a weird way which Raiden picked up on such as " this is your role " etc.

I asumed that Rose was talking to him until near the end when the AI started screwing up and she saying she was preggo. I guess the AI cut her actually out to force Raidens hand by saying they had her hostage.

I refuse to believe that they put in all that soap opera bullshit and sappy crap early on in the story between them two if she was just the AI back then. The AI wouldnt have been able to be that sophisticated if it was almost letting things slip like the colonel did.

TVthePunisher
03-18-2012, 01:34 AM
Here's the basic points:

- Colonel was always an AI, a manifestation from GW to be exact. The AI formed the Colonel based on Raiden's memories or something along those lines, someone that he could take orders from and trust.
- Rose was actually there on the mission until the Arsenal Gear chapter, partway through she's removed from transmission (and somehow appears safely at the end of the game) and the AI creates a second Rose.
- The mission itself was created by The Patriots in order to prove that they could manipulate world events, using the Shadow Moses Incident as a guideline. The similarities pointed out during Revolver Ocelot's speech to Solidus notes most of the comparisons, though he incorrectly hypothesized the meaning behind the program. He called it the "Solid Snake Simulation" or something along those lines based on it being called the S3 Plan. In reality it had a different name (I can't remember exactly) and again was a simulation to prove they could turn any event into what they expected. Note that the Colonel kept mentioning that the real Solid Snake wasn't apart of the Simulation, he wasn't supposed to appear yet it still worked out perfectly according to their plan.
- The Patriots themselves, well that's explained in Metal Gear Solid 4. Peace Walker hints at the predecessor organization known as Cipher as well as the head of that organization. Unfortunately, Portable Ops is not available on the consoles so the specifics behind a crucial point in all of this are just kind of left to files rather than being able to see it unfold.

Solidus aimed to get back at The Patriots, Fortune and the rest of Dead Cell wanted revenge against the people of the world for what happened to them following her husband's imprisonment, Raiden was simply the pawn for the simulation...as the AI expressed, he was the symbolic embodiment of the human race in their eyes...the guinea pig to their plot in being able to manipulate any world event set to a scaled outline like the Shadow Moses incident. Snake and Otacon were there to take care of the Metal Gears and Arsenal Gear, as for Ocelot...well he's working all sorts of angles isn't he.

The very ending, after the credits, Otacon mentioned that all the members of the Patriots or rather, the Wiseman's Comittee had been dead for over a hundred years. This is explained further in MGS4 apparently.

^All of that is what I gathered from the ending in viewing it all myself, I can make it really watered down in case I made that more complicated than I intended x.x

Patriots = Bad Guy masterminds, want to prove they can control events in mankind and used all of the events of MGS2 simulated from the events in MGS1 to prove this. Rose is pregnant, Snake wanted to destroy giant robots, Otacon screwed his father's wife and that's the gist of it.

So what about Ocelot and his arm turning him into Liquid? MGS4 apparently screws that up...I guess, but fans still talk about it in different lights. Once you've played MGS4 (if you haven't already), you'll see what I mean.

Oh and the actual Colonel, the one Snake interacted with in Shadow Moses, isn't in this game. He's alive and well mind you.

GSTAR321
03-22-2012, 11:14 AM
This was my first time ever playing Metal Gear Solid 2.

In fact it was my first time ever playing a Metal Gear Solid game.

Here are my thoughts:

The story was 'iffy' from the moment I started. I got the basic 'jist' of it and I was thoroughly enjoying it and interested (especially the part where you defuse fatmans bombs).

Once I reached the president and he started talking about patriots, s3's, METAL rays and a whole host of other mumbo jumbo the game lost me.

By the end of the game when I was about to fight solid snake and the colonel was talking to me ... my brain was killed. The amount of intense words used like 'juxtaposed', 'logical context', 'morality' and so on was overwhelming. Perhaps the game was trying to tell you to 'believe' whatever you wanted to in terms of the story. How you 'perceived' it would be different to another persons.

By the time the end credits ran ... I felt like I had just watched a 49 hour long movie which may have or not have made any sense. Either way, I must say it is one of the most memorable games I have ever played and I enjoyed every moment of it.

I will now be commencing another playthrough, and hopefully I will be more atuned to the story this time :)

Hideo Kojima is a genius.

DOA_Rose
04-10-2012, 12:00 AM
There is an app on PS3 called the MGS database that explains how everything ties together and why each major character is important to the overall story.

Yes, MGS2 is a "simulation" run by the la-li-lu-le-lo....I mean the Patriots and makes little to no sense ( still makes more sense than the last 15 minutes of ME3, though ). MGS 3 ends with the creation of the Patriots to a degree.

Fluid Mantis
04-10-2012, 04:06 AM
But if Rose was working for the AI, GW, up until Arsenal Gear, how the hell would she have got the job if she had never seen the Colonel? He even at some points in the game says things that suggest he has seen her. If he has never seen her before, or at least she would assume he hasn't, wouldn't she be weirded out by this and mention it over the codec?

I was actually under the impression that Rose was an AI for the whole duration of the game. Considering the power of The Patriots (well, ignoring what's said at the end of the game) and the fact they could make GW such a powerful AI, an effective Rose replica doesn't seem out of the question. Although I would wonder why Rose, not to mention all the people on the street, didn't question the fact Raiden has a huge blade on his back. :P Or the sight of Solid Snake who I gather had become a national hero due to the popularity of the Shadow Moses and Tanker incidents.

snake2410
04-13-2012, 08:08 AM
But if Rose was working for the AI, GW, up until Arsenal Gear, how the hell would she have got the job if she had never seen the Colonel? He even at some points in the game says things that suggest he has seen her. If he has never seen her before, or at least she would assume he hasn't, wouldn't she be weirded out by this and mention it over the codec?

I was actually under the impression that Rose was an AI for the whole duration of the game. Considering the power of The Patriots (well, ignoring what's said at the end of the game) and the fact they could make GW such a powerful AI, an effective Rose replica doesn't seem out of the question. Although I would wonder why Rose, not to mention all the people on the street, didn't question the fact Raiden has a huge blade on his back. :P Or the sight of Solid Snake who I gather had become a national hero due to the popularity of the Shadow Moses and Tanker incidents.

Rose was real all the way up to the moment she states she's pregnant. Every convo with her after that is the AI using her likeness.

sircamjim
06-14-2012, 11:29 AM
MG: Big boss (like a father to Solid snake) try to make an utopia.

MG2: Gray fox (solid snake's friend) try to do the same utopia (outer heaven) Solid Snake stop him.

MGS (shadow moses): Solid snake is living alone, retired, and the former snake's unit (Foxhound) try to steal the new Metal Gear (MG Rex, it can launch invisible to radar nuclear warheads). It's reveales that Solid snake is a Big Boss clone, they made 8 but survived 2 (solid and liquid, liquid is the head of the conspiracy) Gray fox is the ninja and help to stop MG Rex. The niece of the colonel (who was in charge of Foxhound, also retired) was in the same place (Meryl) At the end, the only enemy survivor (Ocelot) is revealed to be working under the president and he stole the Rex blueprints. BTW, Solid snake meet Otacon, Rex creator.

MGS2:
Tanker: Otacon finds about MG Ray and they try to reveal it, he found the info by an anonnimous message by "E.E." The info was leaked by Ocelot. Gurlukovich is the crook russian high rank soldier who Liquid was trying to sell Rex to. Ocelot gets implanted liquids hand (it was cutted by the ninja in MGS) and under stress, liquid's personality takes control.
Plant: The tanker incident was an excuse to test Ray and to develop a new type of metal gear, one that can manipulate info and is armed with a lot of MG Rays (arsenal gear) E.E. (otacon's sister) is involved in the develop. Raiden was virtually trained with the recordings of shadow moses incident, he also was being watched by Rose, she faked even her hair color to match Raiden's likes. This incident was to try the virtual training. The colonel in this game, and Rose beyond some point (I don't exactly remember when) is an AI controlled by Arsenal Gear, but with the virus the AI is not working properly. It is revealed that there was another Big Boss clone alive, and he's the president, Solidus. He was in the plant and he fake his kidnapping. When the game ends, Raiden find Rose and they try to live together without lies. Ocelot escapes. It is revealed that everything was controlled by la-li-lu-le-lo (the Patriots) I don't think MGS2 was a virtual training. In fact, the Patriots didn't expected that Solid Snake would be involved in the Arsenal test.
MGS3 I didn't play it fully, but you control Naked snake (Big Boss) and fight a young Ocelot.