PDA

View Full Version : Anyone else is feeling more and more disenchanted with NG3?


bribonus
05-03-2012, 12:53 AM
After being stuck for 3 days on chapter 6 MN (inside the cathedral), I have to force myself to keep trying. I beat NG2 on MN, I’m trying to 100% it and I keep playing Black and Sigma 1 and 2 on the ps3 to finish all of them on maximum difficulty. Hell, I even picked up a used copy of the old xbox vanilla NG on ebay past week just to have all NG games and of course, to beat it on all difficulties. Ninja Gaiden kicks my ass really hard almost every day and itīs all right; I keep trying, learning, and I don’t care much about deaths (100+ on Alma MN and counting).

But MN on 3…is pointless. I played normal and hard and I enjoyed it for the most part. There are some pretty good ideas thrown here and there, some BS also here and there (few weapons, kunai climb is a bit…odd IMO, and I can stand the QTEs on bosses though I donīt like QTEs very much). I like the “new” Ryu, also. He reminds me more the old NES ninja than the silent killing machine Itagaki portrayed on the first two games. But after hard, it is ridiculous. An idiotic spam fest: they spam grabs, rockets and grenades; you spam izunas, swallows and OL360Y. Some OTs, some ninpo and the occasional UT. Wave after wave after wave. Itīs laggy, unbalanced and broken beyond belief. I mean, what kind of game designers build a game in which you almost canīt play the way it is intended (combos and SoB chains, I guess) on the harder than hard difficulties? I can’t even imagine UN.

And OFC donīt get me started on that f@##ing unplayable mess named clan battle. Half of the time I get instagibbed by laggy ghost kills, or the guy iīm izuna dropping disappears just to ghost kill me from nowhere. Trials are awesome, though…the ones who aren’t broken at least (Iīm looking at you, Marbus!!).

Team ninja…you were cool. What happened with this game? Hayashi really messed up a lot of things on this one.

spike14
05-03-2012, 06:34 AM
i agree with u
is there any way we can all do some sort of email reply from the ninja gaiden community to this games developers to release an update that fixes all the BS this game has to offer one them is ofcourse MNtrial 8 marbus the bullshit flying moron and that CAMERA.

a7x4lyf3
05-03-2012, 06:55 AM
The game has been out for almost a month and a half now, we all know it doesn't live up to it's predecessors, the only flaw with this game is the enemies means of main combat is to just crowd around you and grab every chance they get and the higher difficulties the grab pretty much kills you instantly yes bullshit I know, this game has flaws, it's not the best and not nearly worth the title of AAA, but that doesn't mean this is not a decent game, everyone says it's so bad, it's garbage, it's terrible. Then why continue to play? A LOT of people still play this game, it's a good game and I will continue to play it even after I 100% it. Bottom line is either accept what this game is, or just sell it. Simple as that.

GSTAR321
05-03-2012, 12:54 PM
Izuna drop, Izuna drop, Izuna drop, Izuna drop, Izuna drop, Izuna drop .... *yawn*

673 Izuna drops later ... New wave of enemies. Izuna drop, Izuna drop, Izuna drop, Izuna drop, Izuna drop, Izuna drop, Izuna drop ... *yawn*

1067 Izuna drops later ... New wave of enemies ...

*snap disc in half*

This game is fu#*ed ...

Foxhound300
05-03-2012, 01:37 PM
Everyone keeps complaining about the Izuna Drops.

A few things about that. Unless you're 360Ying, there are several enemy types that Izuna Drop doesn't work on until you beat them over the head. Plus this is my first game using the Izuna Drop "correctly' (I beat Ninja Gaiden 2 by using the Claws Izuna which was just two button presses) so correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe in Ninja Gaiden Black just as many enemies could be Izuna'd? Ninjas, Soldiers, yellow fields, purple fields, cats, Evil Ryu, armored soldiers, fiend soldiers, they're all human "shaped" so couldn't they all be Izuna'd? How is this game any different from that?

As for broken and unplayable. HA. If you really did beat Master Ninja in NG2 then you know what broken and unplayable actually is. A thousand exploding projectiles in your @$$ before you can move, THAT'S unplayble. Almost everyone that got through NG2 did it through farming and other exploits, at least the only thing you can exploit in NG3 is your bow.

I'm not saying it's perfect. I'm not even saying I'm having a ton of fun playing it. But I am saying that when it comes right down to it it's still better than most action games on the market, outside of the big three (other Ninja Gaiden, DMC, Bayonetta. "but what about God of War?" Don't ask that).

bribonus
05-03-2012, 03:35 PM
Dementhis, FoxHound, don't get me wrong. I'm not hating the game at all.

[/quote] this game has flaws, it's not the best and not nearly worth the title of AAA, but that doesn't mean this is not a decent game, everyone says it's so bad, it's garbage, it's terrible. [/quote]

It IS a decent game. Of course. And i'm not complaining about the general gameplay. I'm just pointing you can't (well, i can't, at least) beat MNM by playing the game the way it is intented. By comboing, SoB and relaying also on Ryu signature moves. Comboing and SoB seems to be out of the ecuation for the most time unless you want to get grabbed out of your combos for the 40% of your life minimum.

[/quote]Bottom line is either accept what this game is, or just sell it. Simple as that.[/quote]

Haha, you got a point here. I won't sell, so i'll have to accept.

[/quote]so correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe in Ninja Gaiden Black just as many enemies could be Izuna'd? Ninjas, Soldiers, yellow fields, purple fields, cats, Evil Ryu, armored soldiers, fiend soldiers, they're all human "shaped" so couldn't they all be Izuna'd? How is this game any different from that?[/quote]

True. Even Genshin on NGS2. But personally i never felt that izuning (lol is that even a word?) was the ONLY way to get trough.

[/quote]As for broken and unplayable. HA. If you really did beat Master Ninja in NG2 then you know what broken and unplayable actually is. A thousand exploding projectiles in your @$$ before you can move, THAT'S unplayble. Almost everyone that got through NG2 did it through farming and other exploits, at least the only thing you can exploit in NG3 is your bow.[/quote]

You got a nice point here. NG2 on MN was frustrating as hell, but the spammers were the IS ninjas and multi rocket launchers. In 3, every enemy seems to only know how to grab you or shoot at you. I admit the alchemists are better balanced than other enemies, though. You can actually combo/SoB them pretty fairly. And i admit that my first time trough MN on 2 i despawned some fights. Didn't farm though.

[/quote]I'm not saying it's perfect. I'm not even saying I'm having a ton of fun playing it. But I am saying that when it comes right down to it it's still better than most action games on the market, outside of the big three (other Ninja Gaiden, DMC, Bayonetta. "but what about God of War?" Don't ask that).[/quote]

We totally agree here. This game is superior to any action game out there outside the big 3. And beats the s@#t out of GOW anytime. GOW sucks.

Glad to hear opinnions. Seems that we all like the game, but not in the same way or degree.

SageRuffin
05-20-2012, 02:21 AM
The main issue I have with NG3 is some really bizarre design choices (no dismemberment? I can roll with that. manually grabbing a rope so you don't jump into a pool of acid? fuck that). The combat doesn't seem as broken as NG2, though why NOBODY goes into hit-stun while they're in a grab start-up animation is beyond me.

And in case you're wondering, yes, I have cleared NG2 on MN, twice (heh): a standard run and tonfa run.

Man, do I miss the tonfas...

a7x4lyf3
05-20-2012, 07:59 AM
The main issue I have with NG3 is some really bizarre design choices (no dismemberment? I can roll with that. manually grabbing a rope so you don't jump into a pool of acid? fuck that). The combat doesn't seem as broken as NG2, though why NOBODY goes into hit-stun while they're in a grab start-up animation is beyond me.

And in case you're wondering, yes, I have cleared NG2 on MN, twice (heh): a standard run and tonfa run.

Man, do I miss the tonfas... Hey whoa wait... Did you just... Say Ninja Gaiden 2's combat was broken??? You must have been playing Ng2 all wrong then... If Ninja Gaiden 2 has anything over any game it is the combat gameplay... Every enemy had a specific combo from each weapon that dismember a limb almost immediately for an incredibly diverse experience of combos. if you found yourself spamming Izuna drop in 2, well... Go back and learn to play, I 100% completed that game using the izuna drop once, twice, maybe even 3 times a battle.

Foxhound300
05-20-2012, 05:08 PM
If the OP is still stuck on Day 6 or whatever on Master Ninja I can give him some tips. Send me a message about the area where you're stuck.

SageRuffin
05-20-2012, 08:06 PM
Hey whoa wait... Did you just... Say Ninja Gaiden 2's combat was broken??? You must have been playing Ng2 all wrong then...

Look here. I've beaten NG2 nearly 20 times over the span of all difficulties (including a MN weapon run with the TONFAS). I know what I'm talking about. Don't come at me sideways talking about I need to "learn to play", and don't fucking assume you know how I play; there's a chance, however small it may or may not be, I'm actually a better player than you. If anything, get some spectacles of some sort since you obviously can't see that the combat, while very fast paced and exhilarating at times, is chock full of holes and bugs that only get worse as you increase in difficulty.

Such issues include:
- inescapable throws, including the infamous suicide grabs
- throws track player movements and put the enemy in a state analogous to Super Armor (it's particularly bad on bosses)
- incendiary shuriken/kunai explode on impact if they don't hit Hayabusa, and can still damage via splash damage (compare this to NGB where incendiaries were on a timer regardless of what they hit)
-off-screen projectiles, most with no discernible cue of some kind to warn that they're incoming
- many suicide grabs are one-hit kills on higher difficulties (can be excused to a point)
- sub-point to the above: ninja dogs/demon wolves have an escapable grab but its starting animations are completely indiscernible from their suicide grab
- random explosions despite nothing happening
- UTs, while normally loaded with i-frames, are sometimes interrupted
- sub-point to previous: attacks with i-frames - and this include the Izuna Drop - are sometimes interrupted
- sub-sub-point: some attacks have really dubious start-up frames with their i-frames (Tonfas' 360Y)
- counter-attacks can be evaded, often rendering them useless
- bosses will often cancel their hit-stun and launch an inescapable counter-attack (more prevalent on higher difficulties)

There's a fair chunk more as I haven't played the game in a few years, but that's just all the stuff I could remember off-hand. So yeah, NG2's combat system is broken. I'm not disagreeing that it's awesome, but it's still broken.

And good for you if you can get through NG2 without ever resorting to Izuna Drops, but I don't play like you do. And like I said, I might even be better, even with all the dust and cobwebs.

Foxhound300
05-21-2012, 01:39 AM
Several of those concerns that you listed are design decisions. Inescapable grabs for one. There would be no threat from suicide bombers, at all, if they weren't inescapable. Grabs in general are no different from boss attacks in terms of your inability to stop their animations. It's because they're supposed to be a powerful threat, rather than something you can easily shrug off.

Also if you're so upset about offscreen attacks or projectiles, go play DMC. They hold your hand by not having enemies attack you until you're looking at them and they start an attack animation. I'm not trying to be offensive here, because clearly you have a soft spot when it comes to proficiency at such things, but seriously if you're going to complain about cheap hits while playing a game that's made to toe the line of unfair, then go play God of War or something.

SageRuffin
05-21-2012, 02:10 AM
Several of those concerns that you listed are design decisions. Inescapable grabs for one. There would be no threat from suicide bombers, at all, if they weren't inescapable. Grabs in general are no different from boss attacks in terms of your inability to stop their animations. It's because they're supposed to be a powerful threat, rather than something you can easily shrug off.

I can sort of believe this one. At the very least NG2 could've made it so that enemy throws didn't track. NG3 seems to have fixed that, if only for some enemies.

Also if you're so upset about offscreen attacks or projectiles, go play DMC. They hold your hand by not having enemies attack you until you're looking at them and they start an attack animation. I'm not trying to be offensive here, because clearly you have a soft spot when it comes to proficiency at such things, but seriously if you're going to complain about cheap hits while playing a game that's made to toe the line of unfair, then go play God of War or something.

Either I worded it wrong, or you misinterpreted what I was saying (or we both are at fault). The problem isn't so much that they exist - hell, the beloved NGB was rife with them - as it is the frequency of them appearing. Rockets are slow and can be heard and gunshots do minimal damage at best so those two are relative non-issues. Incendiaries and explosive arrows however have no such indications or attributes; with the former, you'll get tagged almost all the time since the dash sucks big portions of ass (especially on higher difficulties) and the latter you won't know is coming until you've already been blasted out of your socks.

I'm not saying that it should be done away with completely, just that the numbers could've been toned down.

Foxhound300
05-21-2012, 06:32 AM
Well yeah, projectile spam is exactly what was wrong with NG2, so much so that Itagaki actually apologized to ninja gaiden fans a few months before he quit, saying that they didn't have enough time to properly balance the game.

mrozzzy
06-22-2012, 08:15 PM
The game has been out for almost a month and a half now, we all know it doesn't live up to it's predecessors, the only flaw with this game is the enemies means of main combat is to just crowd around you and grab every chance they get and the higher difficulties the grab pretty much kills you instantly yes bullshit I know, this game has flaws, it's not the best and not nearly worth the title of AAA, but that doesn't mean this is not a decent game, everyone says it's so bad, it's garbage, it's terrible. Then why continue to play? A LOT of people still play this game, it's a good game and I will continue to play it even after I 100% it. Bottom line is either accept what this game is, or just sell it. Simple as that.

Seriously? That's the only flaw? Wow, I guess we're playing two totally different games or else you've decided to settle for a mediocre (at best) Ninja Gaiden game.


I'm not saying it's perfect. I'm not even saying I'm having a ton of fun playing it. But I am saying that when it comes right down to it it's still better than most action games on the market, outside of the big three (other Ninja Gaiden, DMC, Bayonetta. "but what about God of War?" Don't ask that).

Sorry, but you really shouldn't be looking at the game this way and giving it any credit at all. The NG series has been established as a top-tier action game with (relatively) fluid combat, graphic violence, hard-as-shit game play, and multiple weapons for ultimate carnage. Was NG2 broken in some aspects? Absolutely, there is nobody on here that will disagree. However, dev team said they couldn't polish a few items before the release and thus, it is debatable whether or not it exceeded NGB. However, NG3 is such a train wreck that it should NEVER EVER be mentioned as good, or else you're lowering the bar for future sequels and making the dev team complacent.

Cases-in-point: Splinter Cell and Resident Evil. Think of the original SC games; most of them dealt with pure stealth and hardly ever had Fisher kill people. Fast forward to Conviction - Fisher became a total killing machine and mowed through entire armies of spec ops baddies. Was it fun? Fuck yeah. Did it piss off the hardcore fans who loved the stealth aspect? Absolutely.

Same with RE. Compare RE2 & RE4 with RE5 (and presumably RE6). What happened to limited ammo and hard puzzles? RE5 (& RE6) appear to be more running-and-gunning a la Army of TWO. Will RE6 be fun? More than likely. Will it feature more horror & puzzles versus shoot outs? Remains to be seen.

That being said, NGB & NG2 are solidified as top action games and the bar is raised each time. NG3 didn't even come close to even being CLOSE to the bar and the dev team should not be given a pass for their horrible attempt. Anybody who says "Well, NG3 is good when compared to God of War or Prince of Persia, etc." is setting up the franchise for future failures, as you're already making excuses for the dev team. I can see it now, "Ninja Gaiden 4 isn't as good as NGB or NG2 but, but... It's still better than NG3!!!"

Sorry, I won't settle for future trash titles and I don't think anyone on here wants to either. That said, NG3 should only be regarded as garbage and not given any real credit.

CHIRUNO99
06-22-2012, 08:26 PM
I was completely disappointed with this title and it's a shame since it's predecessors are so good, that said I don't see Ryu as a ninja but more of a mass murderer dressed as a ninja. I played the demo and most of the scenes felt unnessicairy and it felt like the game was comboing for me instead of throwing me into the deep end and throwing enemies at me like I'd expect form a spectacle fighter.

I mean seriously, there was a solider begging me not to kill him, why couldn't I make the choice of sheathing my sword and watching him flee with his tail between his legs. I would have preferred that than the game forcing me to do something I thought wasn't right, and not for the first time since I've been gaming.

Foxhound300
06-23-2012, 02:37 PM
I would have preferred that than the game forcing me to do something I thought wasn't right
But it's okay because the scene at the end of the game shows that the guy was secretly Hitler in disguise! *rolls eyes*


However, NG3 is such a train wreck that it should NEVER EVER be mentioned as good,
Do me a favor. Go to your browser's "search the page" function and type in "good" to see how many times I called this game good. Because I haven't. I've said it's better than the average action game but it's worse than any of the other good action games out there.

Not going to discuss RE5 because that'll open a whole other can of worms.

Anybody who says "Well, NG3 is good when compared to God of War or Prince of Persia, etc." is setting up the franchise for future failures, as you're already making excuses for the dev team. I can see it now, "Ninja Gaiden 4 isn't as good as NGB or NG2 but, but... It's still better than NG3!!!"
That's a rather limited perspective, because you're basically demanding perfection each time. Someone could take exactly what you're saying and roll back the clock four years to post the same thing about NG2. It was laggy, glitchy, and poorly designed due to its projectile weapons. Not to mention it's laughably poor patch history. Then it removed all those adventure game elements that people love in the "better games" of the action series, for whatever reason.

You're not making excuses for the series when you say "it was better than the previous game" because that's a simple statement of fact. If it's not better than NG2 or NGB I'll be one of the first in line to say so, but I'm not going to deny if a game is better than another one in the same series either.

mrozzzy
06-24-2012, 03:29 PM
Do me a favor. Go to your browser's "search the page" function and type in "good" to see how many times I called this game good. Because I haven't. I've said it's better than the average action game but it's worse than any of the other good action games out there.

Dude, relax. That statement wasn't directed at you, but to anyone who has said that "this is still a good action game."

Not going to discuss RE5 because that'll open a whole other can of worms.Agreed.


That's a rather limited perspective, because you're basically demanding perfection each time. Someone could take exactly what you're saying and roll back the clock four years to post the same thing about NG2. It was laggy, glitchy, and poorly designed due to its projectile weapons. Not to mention it's laughably poor patch history. Then it removed all those adventure game elements that people love in the "better games" of the action series, for whatever reason.

You're not making excuses for the series when you say "it was better than the previous game" because that's a simple statement of fact. If it's not better than NG2 or NGB I'll be one of the first in line to say so, but I'm not going to deny if a game is better than another one in the same series either.As consumers of a product, yes, we have the right to demand perfection each time. If the dev's don't strive for perfection and the fans don't give them their fair share of shit for not trying so, then you get the same old recycled crap each time with no growth of the series (CoD anyone?). This game, however, didn't even seem like it attempted to be on par with the last two. Seven total chapters and the answer to increasing difficulties was to throw even more waves of enemies at you? To me, that's a cheap ploy that is often used in the CoD series because they cannot design a level challenging enough in its own right, so the dev team decides to throw loads of enemies at you as a difficulty increase - silly tactic IMO.

It is good for a series to try new things and expand its boundaries (SoB), but unfortunately in this case, it didn't work out so well. It wouldn't have been so bad if the combat system had remained in tact from NGB/NG2, but the combat is significantly slower, your evades get "stuck" 50% of the time and enemies cannot be hit out of grab animations, nor can you move cancel to dodge the grabs. As such, what was fast and frantic combat in the prior 2 installments that relied upon very quick reactions has now been dulled down to simple hit 1-2 times then run. It would be the equivalent of the third Batman game removing the free-flow system that has made the first two so popular. People all over would be shaking their head like wtf?

I guess what I'm getting at it, this game has its core group of fans that it seemed to betray in a half-assed attempt of a game. It will never sell tens of millions of units like CoD, Gears or Battlefield - I can appreciate trying to rope in new fans with easier difficulties or new fighting techniques, but the core of the game has to remain in tact or else you'll drive away what "limited" fan base you have. Then they'll really be up shit creek.

Foxhound300
06-24-2012, 05:15 PM
enemies cannot be hit out of grab animations,

I guess I need to play NG2 again, because everyone talks about this and I don't recall enemies being less able to grab you.


As consumers of a product, yes, we have the right to demand perfection each time.
Sure, and most developers do try and achieve that. The only ones that don't are people like Capcom or EA or Activision that sell you 70% of a game and have the rest of it as locked DLC on the disk.

his game, however, didn't even seem like it attempted to be on par with the last two.
The problem with this game is that the lord and master of Ninja Gaiden didn't work on the project, we were stuck with the ho-hum developer of the Sigma series, and honestly we should have seen these problems coming because all of his contributions to the series have been characters with limited weapon selection or new weapons with bad combos.

BIG L RETURNS
06-26-2012, 04:45 AM
I only want to voice one problem I have with Ninja Gaiden 3 (even though I do have several cause....let's be honest...it's pretty damn bad).

After maxing out NG2 legitimately 1250/1250 I can honestly say that the enemy grabbing mechanics are all fucked up.

In NG2 when you were surrounded by enemies you could be starting a combo on one guy, see a different enemy try to grab you, and quickly press the LB to dash out of the way and cancel out the combo you were currently try to attempt. Successfully seeing and executing this is what you call SKILL.

In NG3, how can you even kill one guy? Especially when you get to the red gorilla mutants that you cant izuna drop? I remember testing a theory out while fighting one. I only kept pressing the X button ONCE. I figured doing that would avoid being grabbed. That wasn't the case. If you press X or start any combo at all, Ryu HAS to finish it. You can't cancel out of it and dodge out of the way of an attack. This is what you call LUCK. NG3 doesn't cater to skill at all.

IMO

Completing NG2 Master Ninja: 80% Skill 20% Luck
Completing NG3 Master Ninja: 80% Luck 20% Skill

SageRuffin
07-15-2012, 04:50 AM
I guess I need to play NG2 again, because everyone talks about this and I don't recall enemies being less able to grab you.

That's what he meant: if an enemy is in their grab animation they suddenly become impervious to hit-stun (the sole exception being if they're about to die, and only then is the grab animation superseded). And that's before you get to the bosses.