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View Full Version : Should Achievements Be Handed To You?


Wurmstrom
07-19-2012, 03:43 PM
We all love getting those 100% scores, but do you think any of those achievements should be automatic? For example, should there really be achievements for completing Chapter 6 on any difficulty? Personally I would much rather have them unlock for doing things that take your skills to another level, like If They Came To Hear Me Beg from Halo: Reach, or Foxiest of the Hounds from Deus Ex. Granted these aren't extremely hard unlockables but they do more for you then progression achievements.

EliteShadowMan
07-19-2012, 03:50 PM
I like Story Related achievements, but at the same time it tells me how close i am to beating the game usually, which i like to keep as an unknown factor. So yeah i'd rather have Skill based ones.

StayonTarget
07-19-2012, 04:13 PM
They are fine the way they are.

mrj3d
07-19-2012, 04:13 PM
I don't mind story based achievements. You still have to complete the level or equivalent.

xKRAIZEEMANx
07-19-2012, 04:15 PM
They are fine the way they are.


Agreed....

Some people are casual, and some are hardcore. Seems to be a decent mix of both worlds out there in achievement land.

cjdavies
07-19-2012, 04:31 PM
Story based are better than finding hidden items.

LankstaTDOT
07-19-2012, 04:34 PM
Not trying to sound kind of off topic. But instead, I wanna see the dashboard showing my progresses for all the games in the Achievements section. For example in games like Mass Effect and Saints Row they show how many out of X you need in order to get a specific achievement. Something like that in the achievement section.

hydrosugar
07-19-2012, 04:35 PM
If anything there should be more story related achievements. (On average.) It's the main objective of the game. My ideal list is 600g for story, and 400g of offline miscellaneous/skill based achievements.

Gackt
07-19-2012, 04:36 PM
Not trying to sound kind of off topic. But instead, I wanna see the dashboard showing my progresses for all the games in the Achievements section. For example in games like Mass Effect and Saints Row they show how many out of X you need in order to get a specific achievement. Something like that in the achievement section.

Some games have good achievement trackers. But not nearly enough. Microsoft should perhaps push that idea onto developers more when the next gen console launchers. I dare say even make it a requirement before you launch your game.

wariowarrior
07-19-2012, 04:36 PM
I like games that give a good amount of achievements for going through the story. Some RPG's are the worst. You sink 60+ hours into the game and come away with a few hundred points.

loganlogan80
07-19-2012, 04:38 PM
I think it's fine the way it is. I enjoy unique achievements but I also like the usual story ones.

Wurmstrom
07-19-2012, 05:16 PM
I like games that give a good amount of achievements for going through the story. Some RPG's are the worst. You sink 60+ hours into the game and come away with a few hundred points.

So far the worst game like that for me is Final Fantasy XIII. Most of the achievements you can't unlock until after you have completed the final boss.

Wildmn34
07-19-2012, 05:23 PM
I like games that have a good mix of achievements. You brought up Deus Ex, and I think that's a really good example. There are some story based achievements, some that require you to explore, and some that require you to do certain things. That's a good list in my opinion.

ChickinOnaChain
07-19-2012, 05:26 PM
No, achievements should be earned, not handed out like gifts.

@Stolen Paper...how's that? ;)

StolenPaper18
07-19-2012, 05:34 PM
Any above easy difficulty are a waste to me. I don't and won't play med. or above. And the "kill 10,000" crap sucks too.

I swear I've seen you post this 10 times before. :p

I enjoy a good mix of achievements. I like to have story completion ones but also random ones that you have to go a bit out of your way for. A pretty good example of an achievement list I enjoyed is Halo Reach. It was easy, but a good mix.

hydrosugar
07-19-2012, 05:40 PM
I like games that give a good amount of achievements for going through the story. Some RPG's are the worst. You sink 60+ hours into the game and come away with a few hundred points.

I decided to only play for the story in Eternal Sonata. Finished with 120g. But I heard if you did that with Blue Dragon you would come out with 10g.

So far the worst game like that for me is Final Fantasy XIII. Most of the achievements you can't unlock until after you have completed the final boss.

I dunno, I think that game was fairly reasonable in giving story achievements, especially for a JRPG.

Rums
07-19-2012, 06:19 PM
We all love getting those 100% scores, but do you think any of those achievements should be automatic?
You mean like this: For example, should there really be achievements for completing Chapter 6 on any difficulty?
Bout as automatic as they come.
Personally I would much rather have them unlock for doing things that take your skills to another level, like If They Came To Hear Me Beg from Halo: Reach, or Foxiest of the Hounds from Deus Ex. Granted these aren't extremely hard unlockables but they do more for you then progression achievements.
I'm pretty sure that's how it already works.

I guess I don't understand the question.

DecadentBeaver
07-19-2012, 06:22 PM
I like a good mix of misc/ random achievements from a game. Games that just hand them out tend to be easy games in general. More recent games tend to be a bit more challenging. I like funny achievements, like Psychotic Prankster from Fallout 3. One of my favourite achievements, and a bit of a laugh.

shangri la27
07-19-2012, 06:26 PM
The only time I truly ENJOY achievement hunting is with a good game. Anything thats non-grindy (skill or story is a-ok). Movie based games are such a chore, and really take the fun out of it. Hannah Montana ftw.

I'd be happier if games like Avatar hadnt handed out 1k. I'd rather we all didnt have that 1k than 90% of us did (I don't, but that's because its on backorder via BB :P). I'm going through Fable 3 right now. I'd much rather play a 30+ hour fun 1k than a 5 hr grind (even 2 hrs honestly).

Honestly, I hope for next gen they up games to 1.5 or 2k for retail. This will keep me and a lot of others from ever playing the trash 1ks

Wurmstrom
07-19-2012, 06:29 PM
Well the second quote was meant to be a prime example of the first. And the third quote is how I think all achievements should be for any game, getting rid of story progression achievements.

NoctisXZ
07-19-2012, 06:29 PM
No they shouldn't when it comes to the matter you are speaking on. When you complete something that you HAVE to complete in order to progress through the story there shouldn't be any form of achievement involved. Defeating boss X to earn one when you already are forced to face him is just lazy achievement design.

I don't really mind them but it just undermines the entire purpose of achievements to begin with. Most of them are simple like that or just an insane grind meant to keep you playing the game just for the sake of playing the game.. not out of a sense of enjoyment or exploration.

Rarely do you ever see actually interesting achievements that make you want to dive into other aspects of a game that you might have otherwise ignored.

Rums
07-19-2012, 06:35 PM
Well the second quote was meant to be a prime example of the first. And the third quote is how I think all achievements should be for any game, getting rid of story progression achievements.

So you'd do away with automatic achievements all together, or just the ones that all casual players look foward to unlocking?

Or am I still not getting it?

wariowarrior
07-19-2012, 06:42 PM
Getting rid of story based achievements is a stupid idea. You need a good mix of rewarding players for progression, for exploration, for skill, for collecting and completion and also a tad of whimsy.

From my experience when a game leans far too heavily on one area that's when people get annoyed with the achievement list.

Wildmn34
07-19-2012, 06:48 PM
I like a good mix of misc/ random achievements from a game. Games that just hand them out tend to be easy games in general. More recent games tend to be a bit more challenging. I like funny achievements, like Psychotic Prankster from Fallout 3. One of my favourite achievements, and a bit of a laugh.

That one is one of my favorites as well, right next to the one in Red Dead Redemption of tieing a lady up and putting her on the train tracks. :eek: lol

Gackt
07-19-2012, 06:52 PM
Well the second quote was meant to be a prime example of the first. And the third quote is how I think all achievements should be for any game, getting rid of story progression achievements.

You take the fun of achievements away from the casual crowd doing that though.

Skorpion XBA
07-19-2012, 06:57 PM
I think that kids' games should have easy achievements, but not all games. I enjoy the feeling of being pissed off at trying to get an achievement and then when I finally do get it, it makes it all worth it. Games that I enjoy playing and want to take my time in I like for them to have achievements that take time to get. I pace myself and don't rush because I'm gaming, not achievement hunting. In other words, no, achievements shouldn't be handed to us.

Wurmstrom
07-19-2012, 07:26 PM
You take the fun of achievements away from the casual crowd doing that though.

This point keeps coming up, about the casual crowd. Perhaps I'm in the wrong mind set but I don't think casual gamers worry about achievements. I do admit I could be wrong saying that. The casual gamers I do know though don't ever seem to be concerned at all about getting unlockables at all.

Wildmn34
07-19-2012, 07:30 PM
This point keeps coming up, about the casual crowd. Perhaps I'm in the wrong mind set but I don't think casual gamers worry about achievements. I do admit I could be wrong saying that. The casual gamers I do know though don't ever seem to be concerned at all about getting unlockables at all.

So, you're argument is to completely screw one groups of gamers to make "hard core" gamers happy?

I can guarantee you that there are more casual gamers than there are "hard core" gamers. Doesn't make any sense to exclude one group. That's why a balanced list is the right way to go.

LankstaTDOT
07-19-2012, 08:06 PM
Some games have good achievement trackers. But not nearly enough. Microsoft should perhaps push that idea onto developers more when the next gen console launchers. I dare say even make it a requirement before you launch your game.

Yah actually that's a better term for it. I remember in games like Mass Effect I had to either go to the Captain's cabin or the main menu to check what I have so far. If it was in the dashboard for all the games, it would be so much easier.

Well the second quote was meant to be a prime example of the first. And the third quote is how I think all achievements should be for any game, getting rid of story progression achievements.

I for one all for the story progression achievements. But, this is a first.

In that case, to make it all neutral and fair for all the crowds out there, they could do something like for example: add 100 achievements (50 story related and 50 multiplayer/co-op/other) and all you need is to get 50/100 achievements to get the 100%. And as soon as you hit 50 cheevos, that's it. You can't get anymore achievements. Hope this makes sense.

napoearth
07-19-2012, 08:33 PM
Yes but only online achievements for games that the stingy company shut down the servers.

Capn Doug
07-19-2012, 08:52 PM
Achievements based on story progression are simply meant to show how far in the story you have gotten. Nothing more, nothing less. Remember, your friends see your achievements, too, so they can see if you are farther along than they are or vice versa. The concept isn't complicated, some developers just don't put any thought into the achievement list beyond that, which can be disappointing, but there isn't anything inherently wrong with it.

Drewdude1023
07-19-2012, 09:38 PM
It's usually a combination of the two, so it's all good.

HabsCen10ial
07-19-2012, 09:55 PM
Achievements based on story progression are simply meant to show how far in the story you have gotten. Nothing more, nothing less. Remember, your friends see your achievements, too, so they can see if you are farther along than they are or vice versa. The concept isn't complicated, some developers just don't put any thought into the achievement list beyond that, which can be disappointing, but there isn't anything inherently wrong with it.

My thoughts exactly.

There are still plenty of difficult achievements around that can make you stand out as a gamer.

Junkdewd
07-19-2012, 10:28 PM
My opinion, is that difficulty achievements are overused. I am a casual gamer, and sometimes struggle with achievements on normal difficulties. Developers should be more creative in developing the achievements, and as part of agreements for server shutdowns, create an update that unlocks online only achievements. I'm sure plenty will disagree, and you are welcome to do so.

Wildmn34
07-19-2012, 10:31 PM
My opinion, is that difficulty achievements are overused. I am a casual gamer, and sometimes struggle with achievements on normal difficulties. Developers should be more creative in developing the achievements, and as part of agreements for server shutdowns, create an update that unlocks online only achievements. I'm sure plenty will disagree, and you are welcome to do so.

Making all achievements easier, or unlocking them automatically because of a server shutdown would defeat the word "Achievement" wouldn't it?

It's not like a game comes out and 6 months later the servers get shut down. If you don't get them, it's on you. If all achievements were easy then everyone would have every one and they would matter less than they do now. :)

Gackt
07-19-2012, 10:37 PM
My opinion, is that difficulty achievements are overused. I am a casual gamer, and sometimes struggle with achievements on normal difficulties.

That's the point. That lets the dedicated or more skilled players get the harder achievements others can't. Maybe I am understanding it wrong but it sounds like you think they should dumb down achievements to please the casual crowd.

Wurmstrom
07-19-2012, 10:47 PM
So, you're argument is to completely screw one groups of gamers to make "hard core" gamers happy?

I can guarantee you that there are more casual gamers than there are "hard core" gamers. Doesn't make any sense to exclude one group. That's why a balanced list is the right way to go.

You sir make a point, alright so story progression achievements maybe needed. Getting rid of them then I admit is not the solution to my dislike of these particular achievements. Perhaps then to keep the casual gamers engaged but still keep achievements true to their name is to still have these story achievements but with a twist? Completing a certain stage with a secondary condition like not losing health, using less ammo, taking "x" amount of steps, just something to spice up the plainness of these just getting handed to you.

DragonsGoMOO
07-19-2012, 10:52 PM
Story-based achievements mean you need to play and use your skills to beat it. So that's fine.

However, stupid achievements like "Start story for first time" or Simpsons "Press A to Start" or whatever, are something I can live without, but don't mind. Just a waste of space and possible good achievements that could have been there.

XI Catman
07-19-2012, 10:55 PM
The harder the achievement the sweeter it is to have it :D

Capn Doug
07-19-2012, 10:56 PM
My opinion, is that difficulty achievements are overused. I am a casual gamer, and sometimes struggle with achievements on normal difficulties. Developers should be more creative in developing the achievements, and as part of agreements for server shutdowns, create an update that unlocks online only achievements. I'm sure plenty will disagree, and you are welcome to do so.

No. Just no. It sends the exact wrong message to do that. Have a game with a hard online achievement? Just wait out the server!

If the achievement was originally to win 10 online matches or win 10 matches at the hardest difficulty, that would be different. But changing the rules after the fact, whether it is to make the achievement easier or harder, is still the wrong move. Some achievements come with expiry dates, it's just how it goes. I will never understand why people complain about the few thousand g that they can't get anymore, when there is still well over a million g available to you.

Wildmn34
07-19-2012, 11:16 PM
You sir make a point, alright so story progression achievements maybe needed. Getting rid of them then I admit is not the solution to my dislike of these particular achievements. Perhaps then to keep the casual gamers engaged but still keep achievements true to their name is to still have these story achievements but with a twist? Completing a certain stage with a secondary condition like not losing health, using less ammo, taking "x" amount of steps, just something to spice up the plainness of these just getting handed to you.

But... you're essentially doing the same thing you said before.

In my opinion there are 5 types of Achievements

1 - Story based (natural story progression)
2 - Exploring based (find x # of, visit x # of locations, etc)
3 - Skill based (complete a triple combo, 10 headshots in a row, etc)
4 - Grinding based (reach lv #, get 300,000 kills, etc)
5 - Just because (pretty much the misc stuff here)

All appeal to different people. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean there isn't someone out there that does.

Iceskater101
07-19-2012, 11:31 PM
I don't really consider those achievements "handed to me" I obviously have to play through the story to earn those achievements. I like having them in a game because it provides a good mix. Story related achievements, some grinding ones and some skill achievements is a perfect mix.

Junkdewd
07-20-2012, 04:51 AM
Making all achievements easier, or unlocking them automatically because of a server shutdown would defeat the word "Achievement" wouldn't it?

It's not like a game comes out and 6 months later the servers get shut down. If you don't get them, it's on you. If all achievements were easy then everyone would have every one and they would matter less than they do now. :)
I was'nt implying making achievements easier. My statement was meant to say instead of having 3 cheevos, one for each difficulty level, make 2 of them for doing a particular think in game. Looking for more creativity instead of replaying over and over just for a difficulty achievement. And as for server shutdowns, I have come across a few near launch date games recently, and seeing as how I did not own a 360 before 2009, those with servers that are shutdown lock me out of achievements. It is not on me that I cannot attempt to get them. With a server shutdown it is impossible for me to even try. Not mad, just clarifying my perspective.

Junkdewd
07-20-2012, 04:58 AM
That's the point. That lets the dedicated or more skilled players get the harder achievements others can't. Maybe I am understanding it wrong but it sounds like you think they should dumb down achievements to please the casual crowd.
Not saying dumb them down. More creativity than is being used for difficulty achievements. And look, I know some people take achievements more seriously than casual gamers. I have gotten my share of whta I felt were virtually impossible achievements myself. My completed games show that. But my preference, is an achievement with a specific goal in mind besides restarting a campaign of some sort on a harder difficulty. I am not against harder levels, I understand it makes the game more challenging and to some, more fun. But I honestly believe those poeple are not the majority of gamers. The developers could simply have multiple difficulty levels available for the peorple that want to use them for their enjoyment, and base the achievements on other, more creative, requirements during the completion of the game. I just think a lot of theme seemed rushed and tacked on, and play on X level campaign completion seems lazy, to me at least.

DEG23
07-20-2012, 05:07 AM
^^^ If i was made grand master of the achievements i would make it so that all achievements were based on completing a certain action within the game and eliminate all achievements to do with collectibles, finishing a level or anything to do with grinding, but that would piss a lot of people off.

I don't know what's involved with coding achievements into games but i would guess that for the most part achievements are an after thought. However i think some developers like R* may include story based achievements because they want the player to focus on the story, and achievements provide added incentive.

rikib004
07-20-2012, 07:49 AM
Give me story progression achievements over collectibles or do x amount of kills using Y method. Those are boring and make games monotonous when you have to go out of your way to use a certain move so many times.

I enjoy difficulty achievements but only if they stack, because playing a game 4 times through bores the shit out of me

DoctorOctane
07-21-2012, 02:14 AM
well, i know i'm new here and i've got a low gamer score and only a recent Xbox convert but i think story based achievements are more worthwhile personally...

going out of your way, whilst fun and something i do a lot of, is tedious after you've finished a game and it does my head in :D

hydrosugar
07-21-2012, 03:00 AM
No. Just no. It sends the exact wrong message to do that. Have a game with a hard online achievement? Just wait out the server!

If the achievement was originally to win 10 online matches or win 10 matches at the hardest difficulty, that would be different. But changing the rules after the fact, whether it is to make the achievement easier or harder, is still the wrong move. Some achievements come with expiry dates, it's just how it goes. I will never understand why people complain about the few thousand g that they can't get anymore, when there is still well over a million g available to you.

I think all online achievements should have SP alternative unlock requirements. (Or better yet online achievements shouldn't exist, but this is a good comprimise imo.) I think ME3 did this. Because a lot of the time I find myself with the very hard SP achievements, but not the boostable online ones. I don't care if the SP alternate is hard, but I'd be happy as long as it's there.

Arrival12345
07-24-2012, 07:47 PM
Agree and disagree i like story achievements handed to me as i go threw the game, but i also like somewhat of a challenge like killing 100 enemies with a certain weapon or somtimes timed achievements can be fun. My favorite would probably be killing a certain amount of enemies.

Tsaako
07-24-2012, 08:34 PM
I actually like story progressed achievements, it's 1 of the only things that keeps me motivated whilst playing a mediocre game at best.

The Produca
07-25-2012, 02:04 AM
Yes. It makes me feel like I'm making progress towards completing the game.

Berad Jenkins
07-25-2012, 02:08 AM
I like Story Related achievements, but at the same time it tells me how close i am to beating the game usually, which i like to keep as an unknown factor. So yeah i'd rather have Skill based ones.

Just simply don't check the achievements until you have beaten the game.

FFFreak1129
07-25-2012, 02:53 AM
I think they are fine the way they are now. Sure the achievements for getting past a certain level may seem automatic, but you have to have some kind of skill to get past the level in the first place.

The only automatic ones I know of are the ones that say Press Start at the title screen. But those are pretty rare not many games do that from what I've seen.

THE DEADLY DOG
07-25-2012, 03:43 AM
Heck no! I want to work for it!

EchoPark
07-25-2012, 04:20 AM
I dont mind difficultly achievements, I'm a casual gamer and admit I'm not great so if achievement is to much for me I will have to let it go. It wouldnt be an achievement if al were to easy now i feel. What i hate is online achievements just for the simple point is that i feel i shouldnt need to pay for live to go on and grab some achievements. Of if u gonna do it ... do an offline mode with bots or something. Thats my own problem with achievements lol