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View Full Version : NO POINT to secret achievements


BIG L RETURNS
07-21-2012, 12:52 AM
Seriously, why do game developers issue out secret achievements in their games? It's not like we're not going to found out what they are within the first 24 hours after someone with a strategy guide lets everyone know what they are. Isn't that painfully obvious? So why have them?

Sorry for the pointless thread. I'm a realist. I hate stuff that doesn't make sense haha

Spanish Assault
07-21-2012, 12:54 AM
someone had to find out....so it accomplished what they wanted.

Gackt
07-21-2012, 12:59 AM
Seriously, why do game developers issue out secret achievements in their games? It's not like we're not going to found out what they are within the first 24 hours after someone with a strategy guide lets everyone know what they are. Isn't that painfully obvious? So why have them?

Sorry for the pointless thread. I'm a realist. I hate stuff that doesn't make sense haha

Not everyone wants to know what the achievements are, some people actually like the surprise of getting secret achievements. Besides, they work well when they are story based achievements, sometimes they can spoil the story otherwise.

Capn Doug
07-21-2012, 01:02 AM
Besides, they work well when they are story based achievements, sometimes they can spoil the story otherwise.

Exactly. They really should be renamed Spoiler Alerts.

Unforetunately, a few developers take it too far and actually have difficult achievements that are secret. Phantasy Star Universe comes to mind for that one, since the level 165 monster was a secret achievement. Same with FF XI, now that I think of it... Maybe it's an MMO thing...

N7 Shadow
07-21-2012, 01:05 AM
Besides, they work well when they are story based achievements, sometimes they can spoil the story otherwise.

Agreed. Sometimes I like to check the achievements for certain games (Those with free roam and such.) to know if there's a couple I can do before progressing (Without having finished the story.).

Spanish Assault
07-21-2012, 01:10 AM
Not everyone wants to know what the achievements are, some people actually like the surprise of getting secret achievements. Besides, they work well when they are story based achievements, sometimes they can spoil the story otherwise.
good point. Some story achievements can be spoilers.

Aiden95
07-21-2012, 01:16 AM
i think secret achievements are a good idea to a point. as others have said they stop spoilers from looking at the achievement list. but theyre are some cases in which there are no point in them being secrets (Guitar hero's come to mind)

mrj3d
07-21-2012, 01:21 AM
I can see the point of them when they're story based. But it doesn't exactly effect me much, I always check this site before starting a game anyway lol

DavidinCT
07-21-2012, 01:29 AM
Not everyone wants to know what the achievements are, some people actually like the surprise of getting secret achievements. Besides, they work well when they are story based achievements, sometimes they can spoil the story otherwise.

Could not agree more. I will play a game with out even looking at this site, if I play it for 10 min and can't put it down (really good game) and I'll come here after I beat the main story to find out the details on them. It's always a nice shock to see a "Ding" on something I was not expecting :)

If a game is OK (good but, nothing I would play through again), I will stop and try to get all of them among the way.

I never even really watched achivements till I got a Windows Phone 7 device and with my gamer score and achivements on my phone, I went in 3 months from 1200, to my current score. To think I never even logged into Live when I was playing all those games for live on my PC :( I do now tho...

KillerBEA
07-21-2012, 01:33 AM
If the achievement would otherwise ruin the plot then its fine. Its stupid for most types of achievements though. Like Guwange's secret achievement....

HugTheBear
07-21-2012, 01:38 AM
sometimes they can spoil the story otherwise.

This is why I don't mind secret achievements. I'm not a fan of spoilers.

InfamousVuk
07-21-2012, 01:42 AM
Not everyone wants to know what the achievements are, some people actually like the surprise of getting secret achievements. Besides, they work well when they are story based achievements, sometimes they can spoil the story otherwise.

Agreed.

It is always more interesting when you don't know what the achievements are (that's if you don't check them out here first).

Also some of the secret achievements require to reach a certain condition or play is a certain style to unlock them (first one coming to mind in Gears of War 3)

Skilled
07-21-2012, 01:50 AM
Whats the point? Sometimes to hide unmissable campaign achievements that contain spoilers. I'm fine with those ones. The rest are pointless I suppose.

DoctorOctane
07-21-2012, 01:53 AM
I can see the point of them when they're story based. But it doesn't exactly effect me much, I always check this site before starting a game anyway lol

funny, i do the same thing except i check this site for the reviews, achievements and how likely it seems i'll be able to play the game :)

i only see the point of secret achievements if they are unlocked during natural progression of the game, that way you learn about the game as you go.

if you have to deviate from the story for a secret achievement i think it shouldn't be secret

RadiantViper
07-21-2012, 02:34 AM
1) So they can have achievements that contain spoilers
2) Not everyone goes and checks for secret achievements (I would guess most people don't), it can be fun to get them randomly without knowing about them

hydrosugar
07-21-2012, 02:56 AM
+1 on them working well for story achievements. They both prevent spoilers and unlock naturally, which is important for secret achievements. Anything that doesn't unlock naturally probably shouldn't be a secret achievement.

ChickinOnaChain
07-21-2012, 03:32 AM
When you can look them up and find out what they are, they're not really a "secret"...more like "research" achievements.

Iceskater101
07-21-2012, 03:39 AM
Not everyone is going to look up what these secret achievements are though.. so I think its fine to have secret achievements. It doesn't ruin the plot and not everyone will want to know these achievements so I think there is still a purpose for them.

napoearth
07-21-2012, 03:47 AM
I have to go with the "it's okay if it protects a spoiler" crowd.

DragonsGoMOO
07-21-2012, 04:11 AM
They're fine if they're a bit random and fun, like Borderlands "I'm on a boat" or whatever.

But incredibly random, like "Don't kill anyone in level 5" or something like that, that's gonna be a bit hard to get without looking it up.

WalterWhite
07-21-2012, 04:12 AM
When you can look them up and find out what they are, they're not really a "secret"...more like "research" achievements.

But most normal people don't look them up, only us junkies who have gravitated to this website...haha.

I'd like to see achievements stay and their point values go away, no more gamerscore. Achievements can still be there but with no point value everyone can enjoy the games without worrying about doing something they wouldn't want to unless they loved the game. No more dick-measuring based on a score buffed with 50,000 points of Disney games. Just a checklist of cool stuff to do in a game and legitimate bragging rights for the tough ones.

TL/DR

Achievements are awesome but gamerscore needs to go the way of the reputation system.

yourbreakfast99
07-21-2012, 04:19 AM
i get where storyline secret achievements fit in but in general i do not like secret achievements.

DOOKH8R
07-21-2012, 04:22 AM
Going to be the voice of dissent yet again. I love secret achievements.

AKfoy0face
07-21-2012, 04:38 AM
because its fun and another reason sites like these are around!

hydrosugar
07-21-2012, 04:39 AM
I'd like to see achievements stay and their point values go away, no more gamerscore. Achievements can still be there but with no point value everyone can enjoy the games without worrying about doing something they wouldn't want to unless they loved the game. No more dick-measuring based on a score buffed with 50,000 points of Disney games. Just a checklist of cool stuff to do in a game and legitimate bragging rights for the tough ones.

TL/DR

Achievements are awesome but gamerscore needs to go the way of the reputation system.

Like trophies?

Ethiebeefy
07-21-2012, 05:40 AM
When you can look them up and find out what they are, they're not really a "secret"...more like "research" achievements.

Thisssssssss

DragonsGoMOO
07-21-2012, 05:46 AM
But most normal people don't look them up, only us junkies who have gravitated to this website...haha.

I'd like to see achievements stay and their point values go away, no more gamerscore. Achievements can still be there but with no point value everyone can enjoy the games without worrying about doing something they wouldn't want to unless they loved the game. No more dick-measuring based on a score buffed with 50,000 points of Disney games. Just a checklist of cool stuff to do in a game and legitimate bragging rights for the tough ones.

TL/DR

Achievements are awesome but gamerscore needs to go the way of the reputation system.

Nah, that's boring. PS3 is boring.

Ayx
07-21-2012, 06:58 AM
I feel sad when I unlock a secret achievement and no one can actually see what I did unless they have it themselves.

I just wish they did what Bayonetta does with the description like:

Beat ??? with ???

Or something like that, it'll seem more like a teaser than actual spoilers. If it's story related, I don't know why don't they do something like:

Insert Achievement Name here - 20G (Finish Chapter 1)
The show must go on... <- Description.

I'm pretty sure some game does this, I can't put my hand on it right now though.

HugTheBear
07-21-2012, 07:04 AM
I feel sad when I unlock a secret achievement and no one can actually see what I did unless they have it themselves.

I just wish they did what Bayonetta does with the description like:

Beat ??? with ???

Or something like that, it'll seem more like a teaser than actual spoilers. If it's story related, I don't know why don't they do something like:

Insert Achievement Name here - 20G (Finish Chapter 1)
The show must go on... <- Description.

I'm pretty sure some game does this, I can't put my hand on it right now though.

I just finished Bayonetta today (not 100%, just beat the main story). Not sure why, but the ??? marks bugged the hell out of me while I was looking at the guide.

DecadentBeaver
07-21-2012, 07:11 AM
I always check what secret achievements are anyway, just in case I might miss them. Deus Ex being a prime example of random secret achievements. If I had not looked at what they were, I would have had a lot less GS on that game than I actually managed.

CHIRUNO99
07-21-2012, 07:25 AM
I don't really care about achievements being secret or ambiguous, the chances are if I'm actually going to sit on one game and try and unlock them all I'm going to have a guide open one way or the other.

Although most of the time I'm too absorbed into playing a game to actually take the time and fill my bumper book of gold stars with secrets.

WalterWhite
07-21-2012, 10:05 AM
Like trophies?

I guess so, is that how trophies work? I traded my PS3 right as they were adding Trophy support. I still thought there was a number or score of sorts involved.

hydrosugar
07-21-2012, 10:30 AM
I guess so, is that how trophies work? I traded my PS3 right as they were adding Trophy support. I still thought there was a number or score of sorts involved.

Well it tells you how many trophies you have. I'm not sure how bragging rights can be involved with your system unless what you achieved is shown on your profile, and then it would just be like trophies. A score is just a way of making things neater, rather than individually listing every single achievement you've earnt standalone, and trying to grasp something from that. If I'm interpreting it correctly you're suggesting this because people that completed Avatar and say Ninja Gaiden 2 both get 1000G for their efforts. I think TA's true achiement score does a decent job of that, multiplying the value of the achievement based on how few people have it. Beyond that I don't really think removing score altogether is a good idea. You can always see what games someone has on their card if you're concerned about how much they've really achieved.

ChromiumDragon
07-21-2012, 11:51 AM
If you want to see ridiculous, look at Lost Planet 2. 95% of the achievements are secret achievements and most have ridiculous requirements. It's like Capcom was intentionally trying to give achievement/trophy hunters a gigantic "Fuck You".

ChromiumDragon
07-21-2012, 11:54 AM
I guess so, is that how trophies work? I traded my PS3 right as they were adding Trophy support. I still thought there was a number or score of sorts involved.

Trophies don't use a point system. They use a gold/silver/bronze system.

Achievements that are typically low-scoring would be bronze trophies, mid-range points are silver, and high points are gold. And if you earn all the other trophies, a Platinum trophy pops up, which is your reward for completing the game to 100%.

There is no "gamerscore". Just a number of bronze/silver/gold/platinum trophies you earned, with the platinum usually being the only count that matters.

Kunduz
07-21-2012, 11:55 AM
since some of them spoil the story, otherwise there's no use for them

misslazybones
07-21-2012, 12:08 PM
I always have to look up secret achievements so I don't miss out on any. I think they suck.

hydrosugar
07-21-2012, 12:25 PM
Trophies don't use a point system. They use a gold/silver/bronze system.

Achievements that are typically low-scoring would be bronze trophies, mid-range points are silver, and high points are gold. And if you earn all the other trophies, a Platinum trophy pops up, which is your reward for completing the game to 100%.

There is no "gamerscore". Just a number of bronze/silver/gold/platinum trophies you earned, with the platinum usually being the only count that matters.

And this is why trophies are awful imo. Having only 3 levels to cover countless different levels of achievements means the system isn't very accurate.

Dz06lt
07-21-2012, 12:58 PM
Story released cheeves should be the only ones that are secret, however this isnt always the case

THE DEADLY DOG
07-21-2012, 01:32 PM
Not everyone wants to know what the achievements are, some people actually like the surprise of getting secret achievements. Besides, they work well when they are story based achievements, sometimes they can spoil the story otherwise.

^ Love finding random achievements. :P

kutpurse
07-21-2012, 03:12 PM
I always have to look up secret achievements so I don't miss out on any. I think they suck.

I do the exact same thing.

Tsaako
07-21-2012, 05:07 PM
I honestly don't mind. I just go come the achievement lists on here anyway to find out what they are.

Dav13s
07-21-2012, 05:13 PM
I'm a realist. I hate stuff that doesn't make sense haha

Secret achievements make complete sense. Not everyone looks at an achievement list before playing a game, amazingly, some people don't even care about achievements (shocking, I know). Story related hidden achievements are good, avoids spoilers for people. There's plenty of others that are fine too.

KnucklesV6
07-21-2012, 06:13 PM
I only understand the point of secret achievements when they are hiding spoilers within the achievements such as killing the end boss or whatever.

guillermo316
07-21-2012, 07:35 PM
I say the only true secret achievements of this generation have been the Call of Duty Black ops easter eggs.

ChromiumDragon
07-21-2012, 09:11 PM
And this is why trophies are awful imo. Having only 3 levels to cover countless different levels of achievements means the system isn't very accurate.

Neither is gamerscore, if you really think about it. It doesn't tell you anything about how many games (if any) the person completed, how many difficult achievements they've earned, etc.

Neither system is perfect. They both have their pros and cons.

And I'd just like to point out something I've always considered a bit funny......the picture of an unlocked achievement is.......a trophy. :D

CHIRUNO99
07-21-2012, 09:19 PM
Well with the trophy system it can give an idea of completed games by how many platinum trophies a player has, the only problem is not every game uses platinum trophies, so we're back to square 1.

I haven't seen a single shiny gold star system which is perfect.

ChromiumDragon
07-21-2012, 09:30 PM
Well with the trophy system it can give an idea of completed games by how many platinum trophies a player has, the only problem is not every game uses platinum trophies, so we're back to square 1.

I haven't seen a single shiny gold star system which is perfect.

But it's at least a better indication than just a number.

You can look at my trophy card and see I've completed at least 33 games and have earned 141 trophies that are generally considered difficult. (Granted, there are some piss-easy golds, but there are also piss-easy achievements worth 100+ gamerscore).

Your gamerscore gives absolutely no indication how many games you've completed, nor does it give an indication of how many difficult trophies you've earned. In theory, you could have a very high gamerscore and yet never complete a single game or earn a difficult achievement.

Iximous
07-22-2012, 01:04 AM
Seriously, why do game developers issue out secret achievements in their games? It's not like we're not going to found out what they are within the first 24 hours after someone with a strategy guide lets everyone know what they are. Isn't that painfully obvious? So why have them?

Sorry for the pointless thread. I'm a realist. I hate stuff that doesn't make sense haha

They are put in for people who actually enjoy playing the game and finding the secrets If your first reaction to a challenge or a game that involves collecting things is to look for a guide maybe you should stick to online games as basic as "CoD" and "Tekken", I don't look for a guide until I have finished the game a few times and still haven't worked out how to get the achievement or collectible.
"pro FTW"

TyrannoSpank
07-22-2012, 01:11 AM
I was just sayin this to someone on Live the other day lol. Except spoiler ones, secret ones are just kinda dumb. I always just look them up to see what they are. I don't think simply knowing what the achievement is should be something to achieve in itself.

Maybe if it was Unknown or Secret until another ach is unlocked, or part in the games story completed, then it could reveal what it is.

Fire Hawk D
07-22-2012, 07:04 AM
It's always a nice shock to see a "Ding" on something I was not expecting :)

Yeah, beyond being spoilerific if they're story-related, I'm pretty sure this is the other reason developers do this. Everyone seems to be thinking from our achievement hunter perspective and not from the general population's. Normal Joes will enjoy the random *ding* of getting an achievement they may not have known was coming (if they have looked at the achievement list at all). Seriously, don't loose touch with the non-achievement world, folks. =P

Oh, and how does this pertain to being a "realist"? And, saying Secret Achievements shouldn't exist because we can just look them up is beyond ignorance. It's flatout stupidity. So, what, books should have no twists? Movies should have no surprises? I mean, we have the internet, right? Why bother?

Chaz Of Sparta
07-22-2012, 03:28 PM
Secret achievements can be annoying, I don't mind story based ones being secret (so they don't give away the story) but if they're anything else then I don't see the point in them.

nevermindaboutme
07-22-2012, 09:51 PM
I've never seen the point in secret achievements, I consider story ones could be done like Fable 3 (You did ***** at *****) etc or just by saying "Story Progression" in the achievement description.

BIG L RETURNS
07-22-2012, 09:56 PM
Those are good points. Didn't think of the story related achievements that can spoil the story. That's a good point.

However, I myself as well as many others on these forums like to complete their games. I also love to play a wide variety of games and enjoy them all.

If I don't look up the secret achievements, sometimes they prove to be unobtainable unless I do another playthrough. As many of you know, if it's a RPG, playing one more playthrough can be a bitch.

One more playthrough = not being able to move on to another game I can start enjoying.

The majority of achievements I feel are basically ones that you will never figure out unless you look on the internet, I guess that's why i think they're a bit pointless.

If someone doesn't look up the achievements list before they play the game, it seems as if they don't really care all that much about achievements at all. So why make them secret to begin with? (only exception IMO is story related achievements)

Thee Elf
07-23-2012, 02:09 AM
I always love the hush hush secret achievements where no one knows what it is and it takes a week or so before it finally gets out. I don't really count the story-based achievements as true secret achievements but more less anti-spoilers.

THE DEADLY DOG
07-23-2012, 02:19 AM
I always love the hush hush secret achievements where no one knows what it is and it takes a week or so before it finally gets out. I don't really count the story-based achievements as true secret achievements but more less anti-spoilers.

Ahh music to my ears. :P Or rather.. eyes.

hydrosugar
07-23-2012, 03:00 AM
Neither is gamerscore, if you really think about it. It doesn't tell you anything about how many games (if any) the person completed, how many difficult achievements they've earned, etc.

Neither system is perfect. They both have their pros and cons.

And I'd just like to point out something I've always considered a bit funny......the picture of an unlocked achievement is.......a trophy. :D

I know neither sytem is perfect. And TA is the only thing that's gonna come close to factoring in difficulty. But what I mean is acheivements can be any value from 0 to 500 (or 1000, technically.) Usually in 5's, but not always. In Tekken 6 an achievement worth 45G is a gold trophy on PS3. For achievements that are worth 100+, they get the same gold trophy.

FFFreak1129
07-23-2012, 03:23 AM
I get and like why they have secret achievements when it comes to the ones that have spoilers.

The others don't really need to be secret. Its not like they are spoiling anything.

ChromiumDragon
07-23-2012, 01:38 PM
I know neither sytem is perfect. And TA is the only thing that's gonna come close to factoring in difficulty. But what I mean is acheivements can be any value from 0 to 500 (or 1000, technically.) Usually in 5's, but not always. In Tekken 6 an achievement worth 45G is a gold trophy on PS3. For achievements that are worth 100+, they get the same gold trophy.

This is my point exactly -- both systems have their pros and cons.

X-box's gamerscore system allows for better weighting of achievements within a game. However, the score fails to give viewers an indication as to how many games they've completed or how many difficult achievements they've earned.

PS3's trophy system gives a much better (though not perfect) indication of how many difficult trophies they've earned and how many games are completed, but does not allow for much weighting of individual trophies within a game.

Which system is better overall is a matter of personal preference. I personally prefer the PS3 system over X-Box's, but I also know that on this site, many people are going to favor gamerscore over trophy count, while on the PS3 site, trophy count is going to be more heavily favored.

Eternal Turnip
07-23-2012, 02:44 PM
Rod Fergurson from Epic Games said something about achievements being like a cheese and the player is a mouse that the game designer is trying to lead to said cheese... he continued to say that's why he thought secret achievements were pointless! I'm inclined to agree with him.