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HVAC Techie
07-29-2012, 10:04 PM
I wish Microsoft had some policy in place where all achievements had to be tested beforehand to make sure they work, and make sure that there's some alternative way to get every achievement. It irks me when a game gets delisted, or a server get shut down, etc. Sports games shouldn't even have multiplayers or multiplayer achievements, because the servers for it get shut down so often.

Then there's games like Crackdown of Hellboy where the original 1k don't come with and instead come out as DLC (and with Hellboy, it didn't even get released). And of course, simply glitched achievements.

Achievements shouldn't be glitched Day 1 is my point. :mad: Do you think Microsoft should have better policies in place for this kind of thing, or is it sort of a case by case basis kind of thing in your eyes? And is there any way we could get solid feedback across to them about this?

DragonsGoMOO
07-29-2012, 10:20 PM
There should be something. "If the achievements are affected by server shutdowns, then we'll give them an update that switches achievements out." Yeah right, I hope so, but nope.

HVAC Techie
07-29-2012, 10:33 PM
I've always seen Microsoft as a "We don't have time for rational solutions" kind of company. Just sort of pick the way-harder-than-it-needs-to-be way. Short of rallying against them in some public outrage thing, we can only send our feedback and hope it does something, I guess.

Iceskater101
07-29-2012, 10:45 PM
My question is that is it microsoft who should test achievements, or is it the game makers responsibility? I mean is microsoft responsible for all achievements in games?

Whispin627
07-29-2012, 11:45 PM
Microsoft may have made achievements more mainstream but I don't believe it's their responsibility to police them in the way you would like. It should be the developers responsibility IMHO. (Hence beta testing, server maintenance/life span, etc.)

Rums
07-30-2012, 12:20 AM
They're still putting busted products on their platforms that don't do what is promised. Profiting from it, too.

Spanish Assault
07-30-2012, 12:40 AM
they're too bust making money on xbox live ads.

JeremyVersion1
07-30-2012, 01:39 AM
My question is that is it microsoft who should test achievements, or is it the game makers responsibility? I mean is microsoft responsible for all achievements in games?

It's the developers. For example, I picked up Smash TV years ago (back in 08) and one of the achievements was glitched. The company (Midway) has since gone under, but even back then they said it would cost too much money to fix, so they wouldn't be fixing it. It's bullshit, because there's hundreds if not thousands of people that got dicked on finishing the game.

Microsoft should, and easily could, unlock achievements like this for owners of said games. Same for online achievements for games where the servers are down.

ChickinOnaChain
07-30-2012, 01:46 AM
I don't think there's any "impossible" achievements but there are some that are more difficult for some players. For me...where do I start?

Spanish Assault
07-30-2012, 01:48 AM
It's the developers. For example, I picked up Smash TV years ago (back in 08) and one of the achievements was glitched. The company (Midway) has since gone under, but even back then they said it would cost too much money to fix, so they wouldn't be fixing it. It's bullshit, because there's hundreds if not thousands of people that got dicked on finishing the game.

Microsoft should, and easily could, unlock achievements like this for owners of said games. Same for online achievements for games where the servers are down.
but then it wont be an achievement, it will be a consolation.

Skilled
07-30-2012, 02:01 AM
I see achievements as a way to show off your singleplayer achievements, we already have ways to show off what we've done in multiplayer, with our level, titles, badges, stats. Other players can't see our singleplayer ones which is why they should be singleplayer only.

DEG23
07-30-2012, 02:15 AM
To be honest i don't think achievements have ever been all that important to Microsoft. So i can't see them suddenly caring if a small number are glitched or unobtainable due to server shutdowns.

As for server shutdowns, we all know the servers will one day be shut down. So if achievements means so much to you either be sure to earn them quickly or don't bother buying the game in the first place.:confused:

vader99
07-30-2012, 02:48 AM
Microsoft seems to push achievements more and more lately IMO, but not enough to really, truly care about fixing broken ones.

Gackt
07-30-2012, 02:54 AM
I wish Microsoft had some policy in place where all achievements had to be tested beforehand to make sure they work, and make sure that there's some alternative way to get every achievement. It irks me when a game gets delisted, or a server get shut down, etc. Sports games shouldn't even have multiplayers or multiplayer achievements, because the servers for it get shut down so often.

Then there's games like Crackdown of Hellboy where the original 1k don't come with and instead come out as DLC (and with Hellboy, it didn't even get released). And of course, simply glitched achievements.

Achievements shouldn't be glitched Day 1 is my point. :mad: Do you think Microsoft should have better policies in place for this kind of thing, or is it sort of a case by case basis kind of thing in your eyes? And is there any way we could get solid feedback across to them about this?

We are not entitled to anything.
Server shut downs happen years after the game is out...the only people to blame for not getting those achievements are the ones who didn't bother trying to get them in the years the servers were up.
It's also not microsofts problem with broken achievements...its up to the developers, and it costs around 40 thousand dollars to simply patch a game on xbl. Microsoft can take part of the blame for problematic achievements that never get fixed because they are greedy idiots who think they should be able to charge devs for patching/fixing their own games. But from the developers point of view...would you really wanna throw 40k at MS just to let them upload a patch for your own game?

This stuff doesn't happen with PC games, and it shouldn't with consoles but thats just the way the world works unfortunately.

Fire Hawk D
07-30-2012, 04:40 AM
My question is that is it microsoft who should test achievements, or is it the game makers responsibility? I mean is microsoft responsible for all achievements in games?

This is a stupid topic, but I suppose I'll try as always to show others the error of their thinking.

I agree with this quote. And, they're also not Microsoft's servers. Stop saying that Microsoft should change their policies on something so minor.

Also, if Microsoft should ever change the online achievements in the way mentioned, I think I'd actually be angry. Some dummies miss their chance to get it done and get mad about it later which makes Microsoft change their system? That's beyond stupid.

Chaz Of Sparta
07-30-2012, 11:18 AM
We are not entitled to anything.
Server shut downs happen years after the game is out...the only people to blame for not getting those achievements are the ones who didn't bother trying to get them in the years the servers were up.
It's also not microsofts problem with broken achievements...its up to the developers, and it costs around 40 thousand dollars to simply patch a game on xbl. Microsoft can take part of the blame for problematic achievements that never get fixed because they are greedy idiots who think they should be able to charge devs for patching/fixing their own games. But from the developers point of view...would you really wanna throw 40k at MS just to let them upload a patch for your own game?

This stuff doesn't happen with PC games, and it shouldn't with consoles but thats just the way the world works unfortunately.

I mostly agree with you, except the part about how people only have themselves to blame for not getting them getting the chance. Not everyone buys a game as soon as it's released, some buy a game years after it was made without any idea that they won't be able to get certain achievements.

But yeah, not being able to get achievements due to glitches or sever shutdowns do annoy me, but it's not something I lose sleep over.

erwinWPF
07-30-2012, 11:19 AM
This is a stupid topic, but I suppose I'll try as always to show others the error of their thinking.

I agree with this quote. And, they're also not Microsoft's servers. Stop saying that Microsoft should change their policies on something so minor.

Also, if Microsoft should ever change the online achievements in the way mentioned, I think I'd actually be angry. Some dummies miss their chance to get it done and get mad about it later which makes Microsoft change their system? That's beyond stupid.

This is out of topic but, sick signature.

Toams07
07-30-2012, 11:36 AM
Microsoft can take part of the blame for problematic achievements that never get fixed because they are greedy idiots who think they should be able to charge devs for patching/fixing their own games.

This post made me think about a video I saw once in computer class when we were talking about programming. A Dutch programmer was interviewed in the video and stated that things like programs and games that need programming always should be good the first time and not need a patch.

CHIRUNO99
07-30-2012, 12:13 PM
I'm not really bothered about the shiny gold star system not working here and there, but when I get a game and it's buggy and glitchy in general then I'll have problems.

SoV Plague
07-30-2012, 12:34 PM
well the achievement system is overseen by Microsoft but at the same time the unlocks to achievements is based on each individual gaming studio. so that would be something that would have to be taken to them.

Felonious Monk
07-30-2012, 01:18 PM
Why are people letting MS off the hook with this? They told developers that achievements had to be included ( a great example is the '06 sports games where no one really knew what they were doing), and now even dictate numbers of achievements or the conditions under which they unlock (example: no more games that are 1000g with 99 achievements like orange box).

With all these rules and guidelines, yeah, they need to justify having a full time QA member or two testing these all the time, if not before launch then around the game's first quarter window. Or else stop making it a requirement for developers who honestly couldn't give a shit.

As for server shutdowns, I counter with EA's Create. There's no reason for this shit, or it should be opened up for the communities or third parties to keep going. I would pay for the hosting of PGR3 so that people could keep getting tourney achievements. But current legal mumbo jumbo keeps me from even offering.

Fire Hawk D
07-30-2012, 02:51 PM
This is out of topic but, sick signature.

Thanks. =D

niko da bos
07-30-2012, 04:39 PM
they're too bust making money on xbox live ads.

:mad:its starting to get to me, i cant be at any page of my dashboard without seeing ads spammed all over. i think the only clean page is the settings tab on the far right, almost all of them have some moving video add in the bottom corner.

i would expect PSN to have ads up the ass like this, since they dont actually pay for the online network correct? PSN probably needs revenue to keep the service up, but we (xbox customers) pay 60$ a year for XBL. i dont see why we should be subject to all these ads, half of the stuff isnt even gaming related!

OT : on the subject of unobtainables or "impossible" achievements, ive only come across a few in my time. all of which were on the original L4D game, i had earned atleast 3 or 4 achievements and none of them popped. after a couple months i went back to the game, and popped every single one just by booting up the game (they patched it) heh. that was pretty cool, although i probably did the requirement like 5+ times trying to trigger it lol.

Spanish Assault
07-30-2012, 04:53 PM
:mad:its starting to get to me, i cant be at any page of my dashboard without seeing ads spammed all over. i think the only clean page is the settings tab on the far right, almost all of them have some moving video add in the bottom corner.

i would expect PSN to have ads up the ass like this, since they dont actually pay for the online network correct? PSN probably needs revenue to keep the service up, but we (xbox customers) pay 60$ a year for XBL. i dont see why we should be subject to all these ads, half of the stuff isnt even gaming related!

OT : on the subject of unobtainables or "impossible" achievements, ive only come across a few in my time. all of which were on the original L4D game, i had earned atleast 3 or 4 achievements and none of them popped. after a couple months i went back to the game, and popped every single one just by booting up the game (they patched it) heh. that was pretty cool, although i probably did the requirement like 5+ times trying to trigger it lol.
yeah the Crash Course DLC was glitched (it was a server thing, you could trick the game into letting you host the DLC which would let you get the achievements) so I think they just gave everyone the DLC achievements when you loaded it up.

CHIRUNO99
07-30-2012, 04:58 PM
One of my friends actually unlocked Crash Course achievements without even owning the DLC, it just happened randomly when he started the game up. It was just weird because we had no idea what caused it.

Also the XMB or PS3 Dashboard is really clean and simple, and has the best themes. It's why I prefer it over the Xbox360 one anyday, altohugh that said it's nice to have a pane take us to the new stuff easily, it's just all these panes and ads, completely blocks up my Deathsmiles theme.

Tsaako
07-30-2012, 05:10 PM
I do believe there should be some sort of testing policy either from microsoft or by the gaming developers themselves before publishing. All achievements should be tried and tested multiple times on different consoles by different people. If one of them is glitched, get it fixed.

Server shut downs are unfortunate but lets be honest, the reason they go down is because no one barely uses them. Is it really worth the hassle of alternating achievements because of server shut downs for an older games just to satisfy the minority who are achievement hunters? It won't happen.

Jappe XBA
07-30-2012, 07:21 PM
I wish Microsoft had some policy in place where all achievements had to be tested beforehand to make sure they work, and make sure that there's some alternative way to get every achievement. It irks me when a game gets delisted, or a server get shut down, etc. Sports games shouldn't even have multiplayers or multiplayer achievements, because the servers for it get shut down so often.

Then there's games like Crackdown of Hellboy where the original 1k don't come with and instead come out as DLC (and with Hellboy, it didn't even get released). And of course, simply glitched achievements.

Achievements shouldn't be glitched Day 1 is my point. :mad: Do you think Microsoft should have better policies in place for this kind of thing, or is it sort of a case by case basis kind of thing in your eyes? And is there any way we could get solid feedback across to them about this?
Sports games should have multiplayer because people love to play them with their friends. There is A LOT of sports games out there and most of them are published by Electronic Arts and it is very expensive for them to keep the servers up for all of their games. That is why they close old servers when new games come out. I agree that there shouldn't be online achievements for games that get their servers shut down.

I don't think there is anything we can do about this. The world is a big place and Microsoft won't be listening what a small group of gamers have to say :/

My question is that is it microsoft who should test achievements, or is it the game makers responsibility? I mean is microsoft responsible for all achievements in games?
Game developers decide what achievements there will be, but Microsoft have some sort of rules about that. For example 1000G should be the base amount of gamerscore the game should ship with and 200G for arcades. Most common number of achievements are 50 for retails and 12 for arcades. Of course there is exceptions with different number of achievements but I personally think it's only the laziness of the developers (games with 10 or less achievements).

To be honest i don't think achievements have ever been all that important to Microsoft. So i can't see them suddenly caring if a small number are glitched or unobtainable due to server shutdowns.

As for server shutdowns, we all know the servers will one day be shut down. So if achievements means so much to you either be sure to earn them quickly or don't bother buying the game in the first place.:confused:

I think achievements are quite important for Microsoft and Xbox community. They are very addictive and even though there have been awards and goals in games before, I think Microsoft was the first to bring gamercards and gamerscore in to the gaming world. For example Sony brought Trophies to PS3 after Microsofts achievements.

Not every game gets their servers shut down. At least there was still online for Full Auto & Splinter Cell Double Agent (released 2006) back in when I still played those games.

DecadentBeaver
07-30-2012, 09:48 PM
I have achievements that are glitched and won't evver unlock for me for various reasons, and I knew this before playing the game. It is slightly annoying, but I knew before hand, so I'll just get what I can from a game. I'm not a serious completionist by any means, but as long as I can get what I want, I won't lose sleep over broken achievements. Sure they suck, and won't ever get fixed, but at the end of the day, who really cares that much?

THE DEADLY DOG
07-30-2012, 10:32 PM
I have achievements that are glitched and won't evver unlock for me for various reasons, and I knew this before playing the game. It is slightly annoying, but I knew before hand, so I'll just get what I can from a game. I'm not a serious completionist by any means, but as long as I can get what I want, I won't lose sleep over broken achievements. Sure they suck, and won't ever get fixed, but at the end of the day, who really cares that much?

I try to avoid games that have glitched achievements that go over the top.

DecadentBeaver
07-30-2012, 10:55 PM
I see where you're coming from. I wouldn't play something like Chromehounds, where only approx 200g is available. I played GRAW knowing full well the 3 achievements related to Leaderboards are almost not obtainable. If its just 1 or 2 then I will, and its not the end of the world, but if there is a huge majority, then I'll give it a wide berth.

THE DEADLY DOG
07-30-2012, 11:17 PM
I see where you're coming from. I wouldn't play something like Chromehounds, where only approx 200g is available. I played GRAW knowing full well the 3 achievements related to Leaderboards are almost not obtainable. If its just 1 or 2 then I will, and its not the end of the world, but if there is a huge majority, then I'll give it a wide berth.

That was another one I was hearing about... Making the achievements #1 spot on the leaderboards... It's like do these developers even think about the likelyhood of keeping average gamers/hunters with achievements like that? =/

KillerBEA
07-30-2012, 11:39 PM
That was another one I was hearing about... Making the achievements #1 spot on the leaderboards... It's like do these developers even think about the likelyhood of keeping average gamers/hunters with achievements like that? =/

Quake 4 and they just want people to play their game indefinitely

HVAC Techie
08-01-2012, 12:50 AM
Well, to elaborate a bit more, my gripe is Microsoft makes this big deal about how a game has to come with 1000G in retail. That 1000G becoming unattainable after a server shutdown or never obtainable because of a glitched achievement is really sort of uncool. I mean, if you've read the news that Microsoft is going to start offering MS points for Gamerscore or such like that, you'd think they'd have a more refined system.

The policy is a bit spotty too. They don't allow achievements that involve doing something in another game to unlock, even if it involves something in both games, but they have no problem with achievements that involve a save file from a game.

And really, it should just be common sense - make sure one of the most obvious aspects of the game, the achievements, WORK ON RELEASE. I mean really, anyone remember Sage from AC:R? I was annoyed for months.

A lot of devs seem afraid to delay release just to fix some bugs. Some people get annoyed, but some people, like myself, want a more refined experience before the game is released and don't mind. I don't want a bugged experience, I want they best they can do.

Bugs and server shutdowns are only part of it, there's de-listing games, companies that shut down... but MS doesn't take charge of any of that. They just sort of allow the games to be bugged, and never really take issue with it, because they have another cash cow to go do. Because they know it's not a big enough issue, no matter the game, to the point where people would boycott or otherwise stop buying MS products. And even if it was, gaming is not the only medium it makes money off.

Getting Microsoft to do something sensible is like leading a horse to water and trying to make it construct a nuclear bomb. Now if anyone needs me, attempting General RAAM on insane. Wheeee.

Ayx
08-01-2012, 01:12 AM
Sports games should have multiplayer because people love to play them with their friends. There is A LOT of sports games out there and most of them are published by Electronic Arts and it is very expensive for them to keep the servers up for all of their games. That is why they close old servers when new games come out. I agree that there shouldn't be online achievements for games that get their servers shut down.

Not every game gets their servers shut down. At least there was still online for Full Auto & Splinter Cell Double Agent (released 2006) back in when I still played those games.They don't only cut the servers for the reason of having to pay them, marketing also plays a strong role. Think about it, why would a non-sports fanatic want to play the latest installment for an updated roster, graphics and an extra mode that's pretty much a luxury when all the casual fan wants to do is throw the ball around a few times for kicks. Playing online is the only other option really, since achievements are pretty much also a luxury for us gamers that doesn't really matter.

Without the Online play purchasing the outdated version is pretty much worthless unless it's that 2k6 version with those easy achievements. EA knows this which explains why they shut down NBA 2K11 shortly after the arrival of NBA 2k12. It just sucks that people who want to sell these older version of sport games get shafted because it's pretty much going for pocket change. Also, EA has their own private servers which is why they get to knock them down at will as an agreement with MS. Most of other games use Microsoft's hosting service if I'm not mistaken, which explain why old games with very little life still have ways to go.

Catwoman
08-01-2012, 08:03 PM
I have never completed a game 100% ever, I'm not sure if I ever will. I can't complete some achievements, because I don't play game in co-op mode.

Jappe XBA
08-02-2012, 02:08 PM
Without the Online play purchasing the outdated version is pretty much worthless unless it's that 2k6 version with those easy achievements. EA knows this which explains why they shut down NBA 2K11 shortly after the arrival of NBA 2k12. It just sucks that people who want to sell these older version of sport games get shafted because it's pretty much going for pocket change. Also, EA has their own private servers which is why they get to knock them down at will as an agreement with MS. Most of other games use Microsoft's hosting service if I'm not mistaken, which explain why old games with very little life still have ways to go.

Only thing is that EA didn't publish NBA 2k11 or 2k12, it was 2k Games ;) EA has it's own basketball games called NBA Live 07 etc.


Having taken a long hiatus following the cancellation of EA Sports' NBA reboot, NBA Elite 11, EA's sports range will be seeing the return of basketball later this year, as NBA Live 13 is coming back this autumn with a new studio and dev team working on the title.

EA Sports also have a share with 2k SPORTS - However, they do compete with each other despite their share.

FFFreak1129
08-03-2012, 02:57 AM
I believe its up to the developer to make sure that the achievements work and if not fix them. MS should step up though and make sure they work before the game is released. Wasn't that the policy they had? Every game needs to ship with 1000gs or something? If a game had glitchy achievements and theres no way to unlock some, well that game isn't living up to that policy.

NinerFanForever
08-04-2012, 02:11 PM
The thing that bugs me is glitched achievements that are never fixed and this one complaint I can point squarely at Microsoft. I spent hours and hours on Fable 3 only to find out I couldn't finish the Book club achievement due to a glitch. How about when my demon door total reset because I joined someone elses online game? Stuff like this is unexcusable and should have been fixed.

HabsCen10ial
08-04-2012, 02:47 PM
I don't think there's any "impossible" achievements but there are some that are more difficult for some players. For me...where do I start?

Well I think he's talking about unobtainable achievements.

I don't think anything should be done about server closures because as an achievement hunter you need to find out what games are affected by it and how long you have to get them.

Day 1 glitched achievements are a different story. Take Ghostbusters for example. There were a total of 5 achievements that were glitchy right out of the box 2 of which glitched for nearly everybody. The developer (Terminal Reality) denied there were any problems and then after over a year admitted to it and released a patch that ONLY fixed the problem for people that hadn't played the game before. Leaving those of us that campaigned for over a year helpless.

For a case like the above then yes I think that microsoft should step in and make sure the patch helps all of their online gamers because the developers didn't know how to fix the problem.

Ps1082
08-04-2012, 03:56 PM
I'll generally play anything i want to play regardless of how many achievements i can get off it, but of course the more the better!