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TheLazyWolf
09-11-2007, 03:02 PM
Well MS has finally taken notice of gamesaving and profile glitching. Was the COD4 beta that pushed them over the edge. The gamesave site posted a bunch of COD4 beta profiles that could be used to glitch the beta on to any account, and MS got pissed. They banned a bunch of people until 9999.


Major Nelson has also FINALLY addressed the issue (if only for a minute) in his latest podcast #242.
At about mark 1:05:55 --
"If you're using any way to *ahem* 'increase your GamerScore' .. We take action on that, as well"

So maybe the moment is really here, i dunno. I've gone round and round on the subject to even get my hopes up at this point. How does everyone else feel? Would you be happy if MS really is taking a stand, or is it to little to late at this point, and not something you even care about anymore.

teh x3nomorph
09-11-2007, 03:06 PM
That would be awesome if they actually did something about it. But they do have about a million other things to deal with on a daily basis, and Im sure this has kind of fallen to the bottom of the barrell.

I honestly hope that they nail some of those guys right to the wall.

fatces
09-11-2007, 03:08 PM
finally they decided to take action,it was about time MS. soon the lists wont be infected with stripclubs djs and the sort

RedstaR
09-11-2007, 03:31 PM
It's about time Microsoft takes action, sick of seeing people with 1000 in bugged games.

xInsanExSniper
09-11-2007, 04:06 PM
Yeah, I like the idea of finally doing something about it. But it does seem to late.

Kaens
09-11-2007, 04:45 PM
The story as I heard it, I honestly can't recall whom it was that told me, goes like this...

Someone with access to the private network of live that the reviewers of bigger sites use (sorry I can't remember the damn name) had allowed their son to play the CoD4 beta. Some evil person noticed that this child had CoD4 on their gamertag or that they were playing it, duped the child into handing over his account information. With that, they were able to recover the tag, somehow glitch CoD4 access onto their own account, and return the account back to the child with some message like, "everything is fine now, carry on". Social engineering stuff.

Then once they had the key, they could easily pass it around to any account in their 360s, share & recover it, and basically spread it around like a virus. No chance Activision was going allow this blatant leak of their property so they no doubt expected MS to do something to stop it. Which they did, not very hard to figure out who played CoD4 and ban them.

This really has everything to do using social engineering to access an internal closed network and nothing to do with cheating or gamesaving. I wish this meant MS was doing something about cheats but it doesn't. I'm listening to Major Nelson now, so if he contradicts what I've already heard I'll be quick to edit this post so I don't look like a dumbass ;)

Xterm1n8or
09-11-2007, 05:11 PM
It is NEVER too late. This is great news, ban all the gamesavers till 9999!!!

Curtis
09-11-2007, 05:21 PM
MS has acted against gamesaving in the past.

They banned every console ID on all the saves on the gamesaving site, I won't link. So now all the gamesavers have to stick to about 5-6 games there able to gamesave, with the profile glitchable games still working fine. It used to be possible to gamesave with an unupdated 360 from before the may update, but I'm not sure about that now.

So when you see someone suddenly appear at the top of the leaderboard with a silver account, that's probably why.

J eVeRy DaY 514
09-11-2007, 06:03 PM
i love the idea, but i think its too late. gamesavers will find another way around it. are they gonna take action against profile glitchers too though?

Maka
09-11-2007, 08:06 PM
I only wish, but if the light only shined that bright. At this point, it's gone way to far. There's almost now way for the to actually penalize all the people who've done it, because there are way to many now, and they are mixed in with the lower gamerscores as well. I've seen about 5 different people who gamesave and have under a 5000 points gamerscore. I would love them to do it, but it seems almost impossible now.

If they only took legal claim against Sufoor, for literally selling achievements, and having a modded xbox.

ac2565
09-11-2007, 08:08 PM
The story as I heard it, I honestly can't recall whom it was that told me, goes like this...

Someone with access to the private network of live that the reviewers of bigger sites use (sorry I can't remember the damn name) had allowed their son to play the CoD4 beta. Some evil person noticed that this child had CoD4 on their gamertag or that they were playing it, duped the child into handing over his account information. With that, they were able to recover the tag, somehow glitch CoD4 access onto their own account, and return the account back to the child with some message like, "everything is fine now, carry on". Social engineering stuff.

Then once they had the key, they could easily pass it around to any account in their 360s, share & recover it, and basically spread it around like a virus. No chance Activision was going allow this blatant leak of their property so they no doubt expected MS to do something to stop it. Which they did, not very hard to figure out who played CoD4 and ban them.

This really has everything to do using social engineering to access an internal closed network and nothing to do with cheating or gamesaving. I wish this meant MS was doing something about cheats but it doesn't. I'm listening to Major Nelson now, so if he contradicts what I've already heard I'll be quick to edit this post so I don't look like a dumbass ;)

That sounds amazingly similar to how people got Halo 3 Epilison.

BlaZiN cdn
09-11-2007, 08:09 PM
It's good microsoft is taking more action against gamesaving.

codedigital
09-11-2007, 08:11 PM
It's good microsoft is taking more action against gamesaving.


Wait...aren't you a gamesaver? Weren't you banned for doing it? What are you doing back here?

ac2565
09-11-2007, 08:15 PM
Wait...aren't you a gamesaver? Weren't you banned for doing it? What are you doing back here?
He's not a gamesaver. He was TRYING to profile glitch. And it turned out he wasn't very good doing it as the first time he tried it he got his account stolen.

BlaZiN cdn
09-11-2007, 08:16 PM
Wait...aren't you a gamesaver? Weren't you banned for doing it? What are you doing back here?

Technically I attempted it, the guy ended up stealing my account.

Curtis
09-11-2007, 08:21 PM
i love the idea, but i think its too late. gamesavers will find another way around it. are they gonna take action against profile glitchers too though?

They have the "resigner" made by from what I believe is coded by Roofus (Author of Xplorer360) and maybe afew others. It resigns the save with a new console ID etc, making it able to use.

So yeah, they have found a way around it.

codedigital
09-11-2007, 08:43 PM
He's not a gamesaver. He was TRYING to profile glitch. And it turned out he wasn't very good doing it as the first time he tried it he got his account stolen.

The fact that he was willing to try it puts it into doubt if he ever did before...but I'm not an admin so my opinion doesn't matter.

Raider
09-11-2007, 10:18 PM
Erm, my brother got into the COD4 beta, I log into his profile, (same xbox) run the beta go to dash and sign out of his profile and sign into mine so I can play the beta on my account. That wont get me banned banned will it?

Cold Rival
09-11-2007, 10:21 PM
Erm, my brother got into the COD4 beta, I log into his profile, (same xbox) run the beta go to dash and sign out of his profile and sign into mine so I can play the beta on my account. That wont get me banned banned will it?

It might do. What does it matter if you play the Beta on his account anyway? It is worth the risk?

Raider
09-11-2007, 11:38 PM
Yeah after I heard about the banns I stopped playing it on mine and am now playing it on my brothers account. I think if they banned everyone who played the beta that shouldn't have been, thats way to many people to ban. I would be ok with a week ban or something, I need to finish some single player stuff.

TheLazyWolf
09-11-2007, 11:40 PM
Erm, my brother got into the COD4 beta, I log into his profile, (same xbox) run the beta go to dash and sign out of his profile and sign into mine so I can play the beta on my account. That wont get me banned banned will it?

Whoa yeah thats bannable from what i hear. Just use his account or get one of the 100,000 gamespot tokens.

@ curtis they have been talking about that resigner for months and it still hasnt seen the light of day. Currently it is way more effective for them to simply hack cards for $$$. They get money that way unlike with the resigner.

Skillet
09-12-2007, 12:55 AM
The day they reduce StripClubdj's gamerscore down to 100...I'll be happy.

Raider
09-12-2007, 02:21 AM
The day they reduce StripClubdj's gamerscore down to 100...I'll be happy.

That still gives him more than he has earned legit. lol.

DoM cAbAn
09-12-2007, 02:29 AM
I think it's a great idea that Microsoft might finally try to put a stop to gavesaving. It'll just be making playing games that much more fun knowing that someone isn't cheating to get Achievements. :)

antnie
09-12-2007, 03:31 AM
they are banning, shoot. JK =0

codedigital
09-12-2007, 11:41 AM
Yeah after I heard about the banns I stopped playing it on mine and am now playing it on my brothers account. I think if they banned everyone who played the beta that shouldn't have been, thats way to many people to ban. I would be ok with a week ban or something, I need to finish some single player stuff.

Hopefully you don't get smacked with that 9999A.D. ban. I'm pretty sure they are handing those out to anyone that steals the COD4 Beta.

PerpetualHeaven
09-12-2007, 11:53 AM
How would you even be able to tell if someone stole the COD4 beta key? I only ask because they're banning people, wouldn't they just end up baning people who may have not stolen it?

Gun-Nut
09-12-2007, 11:57 AM
How would you even be able to tell if someone stole the COD4 beta key? I only ask because they're banning people, wouldn't they just end up baning people who may have not stolen it?

Well from all the sites I've tried it requires your Gamertag to sign up for the key, so prolly just a program that checks which keys has have been discpatched and to what Gamertag, Also you have to reedem the code and it can only be done once and only to one GT so if you downloaded with the registered tag and used on another account there was no code inputted and this will show up in the database...

Hope that made sense >< I understand it :P but not great at explaining.

angry
09-12-2007, 12:48 PM
I just hope that they can finnaly catch the people out for gamesaving as i know we work hard to get our gamescore and i know i am proud of mine now that i have broke the 30k barrier. ;)

DeFiAnT
09-12-2007, 01:01 PM
Yes, finally! That would be so awsome!

S1D1OUS
09-12-2007, 02:14 PM
I have been reading a similar sort of thread on mgc.net about getting rid of gamesavers and the like, but how will microsoft know who to ban? With people hacking accounts now for points and only have 'acquired' instead of a date does this mean that everyone with offline achievements will be banned? I have a banned console cos i flashed it and i still use it and have done to play and complete some games. I know i have done all of my achievements legit and i am proud of my score, but because i have a few games completed with a load of 'acquired' achievements does that mean i will get accused as well?

Kaens
09-12-2007, 02:47 PM
I have been reading a similar sort of thread on mgc.net about getting rid of gamesavers and the like, but how will microsoft know who to ban? With people hacking accounts now for points and only have 'acquired' instead of a date does this mean that everyone with offline achievements will be banned? I have a banned console cos i flashed it and i still use it and have done to play and complete some games. I know i have done all of my achievements legit and i am proud of my score, but because i have a few games completed with a load of 'acquired' achievements does that mean i will get accused as well?
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to be offline, don't even worry about them banning people with acquired achievements.
The ban is from Live, they can't ban you from your 360.
I'm sure they have additional checks other than just if your gamertag was given a key. Probably something like checking the console id or IP address then comparing if it's same one as a registered tag. That would prevent grabbing family members who do it but not the guy on the other side of the planet who's recovering the tag.This is the internet people, you are not as anonymous as you think. Everything you do is probably logged or monitored somewhere. Google knows every time you has searched for 'free hardcore' and Youtube knows you've been searching for '80s boy band'. So if you are plugged into the internet do everything as if you are being watched.

cc99999
09-12-2007, 03:51 PM
Two simple ways for Microsoft to slow down gamesaving.

Limit a gamertag to 1 profile recovery per year (unless you call them) and stop people from doing it say, the 200+ times the profile glitchers do it. Ban people who have blatantly abused this as it is a violation of TOC

Ban/Delete all accounts with glitched achievements.

Stop sending scores created by banned/silver accounts to the community sites.

These two measures will basically wipe out most of the top 200 from MGC.net and return the system to a little more normal a condition.

I'm not even talking about looking at who has 1K in Rumble Roses- that can be done fairly and legit (just ask the 12 people who really did it).

But there's no excuse to account recover more than a handful of times- and definitely not the 20-200 times the GS leaders have.

Finally, lawsuits against 360gamesaves and Rufus. He has broken the law and MS could argue that he has damaged their business model, and at the very least infringed upon their intellectual property.

So that's my quick and easy....

k_dog
09-12-2007, 03:55 PM
The fact that he was willing to try it puts it into doubt if he ever did before...but I'm not an admin so my opinion doesn't matter.

J, you're SO eager to swing the Banhammer that you don't have. LOLZ

codedigital
09-12-2007, 03:58 PM
J, you're SO eager to swing the Banhammer that you don't have. LOLZ

And I don't want that sucker either. :)

W. Samuel Jones III
09-12-2007, 04:33 PM
I disagree with calling MS to recover my GT. I have 3 HD and if I want to play a game on another HD or use my saves from the new one I have to recover my GT.

Why should I have to call MS in order to play a system that has caused me to return it 5 times due to poor manufacturing.

Surely there has to be a better way to curb this than to make people who do not game save suffer.

Two simple ways for Microsoft to slow down gamesaving.

Limit a gamertag to 1 profile recovery per year (unless you call them) and stop people from doing it say, the 200+ times the profile glitchers do it. Ban people who have blatantly abused this as it is a violation of TOC

Ban/Delete all accounts with glitched achievements.

Stop sending scores created by banned/silver accounts to the community sites.

These two measures will basically wipe out most of the top 200 from MGC.net and return the system to a little more normal a condition.

I'm not even talking about looking at who has 1K in Rumble Roses- that can be done fairly and legit (just ask the 12 people who really did it).

But there's no excuse to account recover more than a handful of times- and definitely not the 20-200 times the GS leaders have.

Finally, lawsuits against 360gamesaves and Rufus. He has broken the law and MS could argue that he has damaged their business model, and at the very least infringed upon their intellectual property.

So that's my quick and easy....

Rocket
09-12-2007, 04:49 PM
I disagree with calling MS to recover my GT. I have 3 HD and if I want to play a game on another HD or use my saves from the new one I have to recover my GT.

Why should I have to call MS in order to play a system that has caused me to return it 5 times due to poor manufacturing.

Surely there has to be a better way to curb this than to make people who do not game save suffer.

Its called a memory card...you have that many hard drives, why not a memory card?

Kaens
09-12-2007, 04:57 PM
Its called a memory card...you have that many hard drives, why not a memory card?
That's what I use. And at this point my profile is only 24mb, so if you use your memory card just to move your profile around you won't run into space problems until you've earned somewhere around 7,000 achievements.

codedigital
09-12-2007, 04:57 PM
Its called a memory card...you have that many hard drives, why not a memory card?

Yeah really...I just have two systems and I use my memory card to carry around my account and current saves. Recovering takes too long and is a bad way of doing it.

S1D1OUS
09-12-2007, 05:08 PM
I just swap my hard drive between my xboxes. With all the arcade games and saves on it i still have 9 gig left to spare

pinkpanfa
09-12-2007, 05:13 PM
I think that anyone that used the game saves should have those games stripped from their profile. Then we would see what people are really made of.

There are some people that actually play the games all the way through and since the achievements can't be used for anything other than bragging rights, why cheat? "LOOK AT ME!!! MY GAMERSCORE IS 1 MILLION!! Adore me!!!" That's about the time when I punch someone in the stomach.

codedigital
09-12-2007, 05:38 PM
I just swap my hard drive between my xboxes. With all the arcade games and saves on it i still have 9 gig left to spare

I do it enough that I don't like taking the drive on and off so much.

Vampire x360a
09-12-2007, 05:48 PM
i wanna see stripculbs face when he signes on to see his account have 0 gamerscore with a message from microsoft saying along the lines of we thought we would change your gamnerscore to mae you legit hehe he would shit himself, though i very much doubt it will happen

Cpl MattBlack
09-12-2007, 06:07 PM
I'm not too familiar with game saving, all i know is it's cheating, but how can anyone apart from MS tell? Are the achievements listed in a funny way or something?

Vampire x360a
09-12-2007, 06:11 PM
yes the dates are often wrong or the achievemenst are in wrong order for example getting 100 headshots before u get 10

Shinobi273
09-12-2007, 06:12 PM
I'm not too familiar with game saving, all i know is it's cheating, but how can anyone apart from MS tell? Are the achievements listed in a funny way or something?

Achievements can be in an impossible order or time frame, online achievements may have been unlocked offline, and achievements that are bugged to be impossible to unlock will be unlocked. Those are the major ways to tell if someone gamesaved.

Cpl MattBlack
09-12-2007, 06:16 PM
Ah right. I saw a GT on my players list that had played DiRT and the last 4 achievements were driven 100 miles, 250 miles, 500 miles, 1000 miles. When you should have gotten quite a few in between as those miles are only counted on career mode and that's where you get most of the achievements. They were pretty much all in order.

Shinobi273
09-12-2007, 06:19 PM
Ah right. I saw a GT on my players list that had played DiRT and the last 4 achievements were driven 100 miles, 250 miles, 500 miles, 1000 miles. When you should have gotten quite a few in between as those miles are only counted on career mode and that's where you get most of the achievements. They were pretty much all in order.

Yeah that is a bit odd since I'm pretty sure he would have gotten at least 250 miles before he beat the game. You have to take into account the possiblilty that he just did the same track over and over, not advancing his career if he got those early, before he beat the game. It's bad to accuse people of gamesaving if there is any doubt.

Exane22
09-12-2007, 06:20 PM
It is very easy for anyone to tell if your gamesaving as long as they no what they are looking for. I would imagine there is no way for them to hide the account and what they have done from M$ so as long as they start looking at the leaders accounts they will hopefully do something about it. If they get the big dogs maybe the people just getting into it will be scared enough to stop.

Vampire x360a
09-12-2007, 06:34 PM
[quote=Shinobi273;400285]achievements that are bugged to be impossible to unlock will be unlocked. quote]
isnt that hacking not gamesaving

Maka
09-12-2007, 07:13 PM
Limit a gamertag to 1 profile recovery per year (unless you call them) and stop people from doing it say, the 200+ times the profile glitchers do it. Ban people who have blatantly abused this as it is a violation of TOC

Ban/Delete all accounts with glitched achievements.

Stop sending scores created by banned/silver accounts to the community sites.

I'm not even talking about looking at who has 1K in Rumble Roses- that can be done fairly and legit (just ask the 12 people who really did it).

Finally, lawsuits against 360gamesaves and Rufus. He has broken the law and MS could argue that he has damaged their business model, and at the very least infringed upon their intellectual property.

So that's my quick and easy....

Horrible Idea. I have a friend. His gamertag is on my Xbox, and mine was on his computer, until he sold Halo PC. Whenever he comes over, I recover his gamertag, while he's on the way, so that, when he gets here, we can both play in an online game, for example, Halo, in a Ranked match. And whenever, I go to his house, I bring it, and recover his tag there. I want to get a Memory Card, but there a little expensive, I dont mind typing it in twice a month, saving $30.

If the way you think would be better was done, than we would never be able to play together, unless we called em'...

But I agree with the glitched achievements, and hard games being completed.

Skillet
09-12-2007, 07:14 PM
Stop sending scores created by banned/silver accounts to the community sites.

Now...what does this mean exactly? I have a silver account and if I would ever play games for a year straight eraning every achievement that I can...I'd want it to show up. I'm not paying $50 a year just to upload gamerscore when I can't even play multiplayer because my internet sucks.

SG Special
09-12-2007, 07:44 PM
Well MS has finally taken notice of gamesaving and profile glitching. Was the COD4 beta that pushed them over the edge. The gamesave site posted a bunch of COD4 beta profiles that could be used to glitch the beta on to any account, and MS got pissed. They banned a bunch of people until 9999.
Major Nelson has also FINALLY addressed the issue (if only for a minute) in his latest podcast #242.
At about mark 1:05:55 --
"If you're using any way to *ahem* 'increase your GamerScore' .. We take action on that, as well"



Oh come on Lazy...I expected more from you...You know as well as I that there is NO WAY to round up all the gamesavers and ban them, as there is no way to search and find everyone who has done it (which is hundreds). Gamesaving is very easily hidable. The name of this thread should be HACKERS not Gamesavers. Hackers are the ones in the top 25 that spring 10K in gamerscore overnight.

If you want to know difference between Hacking and gamesaving, go here: http://forums.mygamercard.net/index.php?showtopic=14502&st=0

Stinkyf1re
09-12-2007, 07:48 PM
I dont think i have to tell you guys how happy i'd be if a *certain someone* got banned from xboxlive till 9999. :D

codedigital
09-12-2007, 07:48 PM
Oh come on Lazy...I expected more from you...You know as well as I that there is NO WAY to round up all the gamesavers and ban them, as there is no way to search and find everyone who has done it (which is hundreds). Gamesaving is very easily hidable. The name of this thread should be HACKERS not Gamesavers. Hackers are the ones in the top 25 that spring 10K in gamerscore overnight.

If you want to know difference between Hacking and gamesaving, go here: http://forums.mygamercard.net/index.php?showtopic=14502&st=0

You're obviously a gamesaver. Who cares what the difference is? Both are fucking losers.

SG Special
09-12-2007, 07:53 PM
You're obviously a gamesaver. Who cares what the difference is? Both are fucking losers.

You would care if you understood what the difference is, and that talk of banning gamesavers is a waste of time, so why do it? But if there is a wide ban, I welcome it that would be a great way for me to finally quit this addiction of achievements.

cc99999
09-12-2007, 07:53 PM
Maka & Skillet:

Don't discount the idea just because it effects the way you currently do things.

Don't broadcast silver account scores. Your score would still exist- if they didn't send those scores out to sites- it just wouldn't get listed.

You have 15,000 points- do you need a website to tell you that to make you feel important?

Account Recovery- I'm not saying that what you do is not valid or fair- but it is pretty lame to see people recover their account 200 times.

I can assure the two of you- your behavior is not typical of what is going on out there. If you didn't have the ability to do these things- you'd still find a way to play.

... and the cheaters wouldn't be able to continue with business as usual.

codedigital
09-12-2007, 07:58 PM
You would care if you understood what the difference is, and that talk of banning gamesavers is a waste of time, so why do it? But if there is a wide ban, I welcome it that would be a great way for me to finally quit this addiction of achievements.

No I don't care...both of you get the achs in the wrong way. You both cheat. There might be differences in methods...but both of you cheat to get those points. That puts the both of you somewhere between a criminal lawyer and a herpes infested piece of whale shit.

SG Special
09-12-2007, 08:00 PM
No I don't care...both of you get the achs in the wrong way. You both cheat. There might be differences in methods...but both of you cheat to get those points. That puts the both of you somewhere between a criminal lawyer and a herpes infested piece of whale shit.

Well that comment shows your total lack of knowledge into what is actually going on here. Nice.

codedigital
09-12-2007, 08:01 PM
Well that comment shows your total lack of knowledge into what is actually going on here. Nice.

You're loading a save. The save isn't yours. What is there not to understand?

SG Special
09-12-2007, 08:08 PM
You're loading a save. The save isn't yours. What is there not to understand?

Well you are obviously a person who will not look at all the facts. I would hate to have you on a Jury.

Anyone with 15$ can buy a transfer kit and gamesave. Hundreds have. It's LEGAL. AS IN NOT ILLEGAL, and impossible to track.

Hacking on the other hand, is done by a small group for MONEY, they are hacking MSís intellectual property, which is your account, which is FEDERAL FELONY under copyright infringement laws. Especially charging money for it. If you want something done, the only way to do it is to go that route, after HACKERS. MS is not going to do anything to gamesavers, it has already been discussed on numerous forums.

codedigital
09-12-2007, 08:11 PM
Well you are obviously a person who will not look at all the facts. I would hate to have you on a Jury.

Anyone with 15$ can buy a transfer kit and gamesave. Hundreds have. It's LEGAL. AS IN NOT ILLEGAL, and impossible to track.

Hacking on the other hand, is done by a small group for MONEY, they are hacking MSís intellectual property, which is your account, which is FEDERAL FELONY under copyright infringement laws. Especially charging money for it. If you want something done, the only way to do it is to go that route, after HACKERS. MS is not going to do anything to gamesavers, it has already been discussed on numerous forums.

Is that why they locked out all those saves which got the gamesavers to start hacking?

It sounds to me like you are trying to rationalize your behavior. I am looking at the facts. The transfer kit is not meant for you to load up someone elses shit. It's meant for your own personal use. The weakness is exploited by people like you. Is it legit? No. You're cheating. There's really no way to rationalize that.

SG Special
09-12-2007, 08:16 PM
Is that why they locked out all those saves which got the gamesavers to start hacking?

It sounds to me like you are trying to rationalize your behavior. I am looking at the facts. The transfer kit is not meant for you to load up someone elses shit. It's meant for your own personal use. The weakness is exploited by people like you. Is it legit? No. You're cheating. There's really no way to rationalize that.

This is not a thread about who cheats and who does not cheat. Some people think boosting is cheating. Fine. What this is is what is bannable and what is not bannable. Come on be a realist. If you want something done you need to be realistic about your goal. It is very easy to determine who has hacked. It needs to be dealt with before it gets out of hand, because right now only a limited amount of people (30+/-) have done it.

codedigital
09-12-2007, 08:20 PM
This is not a thread about who cheats and who does not cheat. Some people think boosting is cheating. Fine. What this is is what is bannable and what is not bannable. Come on be a realist. If you want something done you need to be realistic about your goal. It is very easy to determine who has hacked. It needs to be dealt with before it gets out of hand, because right now only a limited amount of people (30+/-) have done it.

But you come to a site that has a very rigid stance against gamesaving and you try to argue that there's nothing wrong with it...compared to other methods of "stealing" points.

Theoretically...you're not even allowed to post on these wonderful forums.

SG Special
09-12-2007, 08:24 PM
But you come to a site that has a very rigid stance against gamesaving and you try to argue that there's nothing wrong with it...compared to other methods of "stealing" points.

Theoretically...you're not even allowed to post on these wonderful forums.

I am not arguing "FOR" anything except having goal that is attainable.

codedigital
09-12-2007, 08:26 PM
I am not arguing "FOR" anything except having goal that is attainable.

And your goal of most points possible isn't "attainable" without gamesaving? I beg to differ. You'll see many LEGIT people on our site with over 100k points.

k_dog
09-12-2007, 08:34 PM
For starters, SG, you really need to stop fucking making your text black. As I have to highlight to read your bullshit arguments. The cool people use Black and Gold.

Second, what is your general purpose of comming here and justifying the use of gamesaves based on the fact that people are breaking federal law. Are you even listening to yourself.

And last, who the fuck are you and where did you come from? What is your purpose in posting if you don't have anything to add other than your jargon.

Please spare me and this website from anymore of your nonsence.

EDIT: OHIO IN THIS BITCH!!!

codedigital
09-12-2007, 08:37 PM
I get this bi-curious vs. gay feel from your argument. It's ok to give someone head but I'll never take it in the ass!

EDIT: That's right...we Ohioans don't put up with this shit. Hahaha.

Kaens
09-12-2007, 08:56 PM
Few quick things before I start my commute home...

Anyone with 15$ can buy a transfer kit and gamesave. Hundreds have. It's LEGAL. AS IN NOT ILLEGAL, and impossible to track.
Wrong you gamesaving dumbass (btw, if you aren't gone from the site before I get home, I'll be sure the fix that).

3. HOW AND WHEN YOU MAY USE THE SERVICE
We provide the Service for your personal use. You may not use the Service for commercial purposes or in a way that is against the law. You also may not use it in a way that harms us or our affiliates, resellers, distributors, service providers, partners and/or suppliers (collectively, the "Microsoft Parties"), or any customer of a Microsoft Party. Some examples of harmful activity that we do not permit include: (i) trying to gain access to any account, computers, hardware or networks related to this Service without authorization; (ii) disrupting accounts, computers, hardware or networks related to the Service; (iii) obtaining or trying to obtain any data through any means from the Service, except if we intend to provide or make it available to you; (iv) using the Service or related hardware to obtain any data to design, develop or update unauthorized software that you use or provide to others to access or use in connection with the Service; (v) charging others to use the Service either directly or indirectly; (vi) using or distributing unauthorized cheats, macros or scripts; (vii) exploiting any bug, or making unauthorized modifications to any software or data, in the Service or particular game to gain unfair advantage in a game.

The data transfer kit is so you can archive YOUR files to your pc, not so you can pull someone else's. That would easily fall under modification of data. You agreed to the terms and signed a contract when you signed up.

I live in VA. I can easily purchase a radar detector but they are illegal in my state. If caught using one, I will face heavy fines and they confiscate the device. Hey, I own a car (you know, they were for sale) but that doesn't mean I can drive around at any speed I want. VA is rather gun friendly state, doesn't mean I can go shoot people. Your logic is moronic I can't even believe I'm wasting my time responding to it. Don't think for a second it's for your benefit, more for the legitimate people who might believe your nonsense.

If the way you think would be better was done, than we would never be able to play together, unless we called em'... Yeah as has been mentioned, memory card. I picked up a used one for my son for only $20. Just saying, it's not impossible. Also once your score gets higher it's not really feasible to go recovering your tag all the time. It takes at least 40 mins to recover my tag and the last time I did it it took me over 2 hours on a wireless connection.

Creech
09-12-2007, 09:23 PM
Few quick things before I start my commute home...


Wrong you gamesaving dumbass (btw, if you aren't gone from the site before I get home, I'll be sure the fix that).


Fixed by Creech. ;)

narcolepticshee
09-12-2007, 11:11 PM
(vii) exploiting any bug, or making unauthorized modifications to any software or data, in the Service or particular game to gain unfair advantage in a game.


Hey,

Not agreeing with gamesaving or ANYTHING of this nature, but i thought I'd point something out.

It says:

"(vii) exploiting any bug, or making unauthorized modifications to any software or data, in the Service or particular game to gain unfair advantage in a game."

How is gamesaving and earning extra achievement points through cheating gaining an un-fair advantage in a game?

BTW I AM NOT A CHEAT AND DO NOT GAMESAVE/AGREE WITH IT

OnePostandOnePostOnly
09-12-2007, 11:44 PM
OK first of all, banning someone from a public forum with open registration is about as worthless as Britney’s performance on the VMA awards the other night. Good idea in theory, but poorly executed. Especially with someone who has a dynamic IP.

Secondly, I came to this website to offer a response to Lazy, as he should be after the hackers. Because I know the hackers are what really bugs him. I did not come here defending or condoning gamesaving. I came here to tell you it was the wrong approach. MS is not going to ban 300+ people and loose that amount of income. Especially since these 300+ probably make up for a lot of ms point purchases as well. And especially if they cannot be without a shadow of a doubt, right when accusing them of it. The time to ban people for gamesaving is long past. If there was a way to successfully find all gamesavers with 100% confidence, I would be all for it. But I have to tell you, your beloved Lazy Wolf would be no more.

With this new cheating, hacking, because it involves monetary gain from actual un-authorized modification of intellectual property, is ILLEGAL. As in you can be ARRESTED and charged with a crime, never mind MS’s terms they do not matter much in the grand scheme of things, and they are also not law. I am not saying that everyone who has hacked is going to be arrested. That is stupid and naÔve to assume. But the admins of 360gs, the ones making the profit..quite possible. No one is going to be arrested for gamesave use, as there is not just a few doing it for all. Do not interpret this comment as defense of gamesaving. It’s ALL cheating, But there is a fine line between what is breaking law, and what just pisses people off. As of now, there are easy ways to find these people, and their numbers are low, even though they are increasing. The time to ban these people will pass like gamesavers already has. Something needs to be done NOW.

Third, I would like to point out that today is the day in which Sam&Max have birthdays on your site. Very nice.

Ok I am done…no more posts from me, at least on this account. I have said my peace.

Kaens
09-12-2007, 11:48 PM
How is gamesaving and earning extra achievement points through cheating gaining an un-fair advantage in a game?
I will give you that you can make a case that achievements are not an "in game" advantage. However, on some games it does. In some games your ranking determines access to specific unlockables, be it better weapons or cars or whatever. That would give you a specific in game and online advantage. I'm not pretending to be a lawyer or anything of the sort, I was practically walking out of the office when I saw the post, quickly scanned the online policies that everyone agreed to when they signed up. Now that I'm home I can give it a better skim (I've never read one of these all the way through, I don't see why I'd start now). The very next line following what I posted was
We may tell you about other specific harmful uses in a code of conduct or other notice available through the Service. We have, however, no duty to do so. You will obey any codes of conduct or other notices we provide.And following that line of thinking here are some points from the code that "could" apply..
Publish, distribute, or disseminate any inappropriate, profane, defamatory, infringing, obscene, indecent, or unlawful topic, name, material, file or information.
Use the Service or any material or information which is made available through the Service in any manner that infringes any copyright, trademark, patent, trade secret, or other proprietary right of any party.
Download or use any material sent or provided by another user of the Service that you know, or reasonably should know, cannot be legally distributed in such manner.
Create a false identity for the purpose of misleading others. <~ that's my favorite cause it's funny when applied here :woop:
Use, download, or otherwise copy, or provide to a third party (whether or not for a fee) any (i) directory of users of the Service, (ii) information about users of the Service, or (iii) Service usage information.
Violate any relevant law or posted guidelines or codes relating to the use of the Service.I'm sure a lawyer could easily make any or all of those apply to gamesaving. And if not, there is always their trump card..
18. CHANGES TO THE SERVICE; OUR CANCELLATION OF THE SERVICE
We may change the Service or delete or discontinue features, games or other content at any time and for any reason. We may cancel or suspend your Service at any time. Our cancellation or suspension may be without cause and/or without notice. Upon Service cancellation, your right to use the Service stops right away.Which is the nice catch all. I didn't even touch the paragraphs about Intellectual Property. So, is gamesaving illegal? You are at the very least violating this contract and a contract is a legally binding document. It says so when you first sign up (in big bold letters) that you are entering a contract agreement. Is it going to land you in jail? Not likely, but technically, it is illegal.

Kaens
09-13-2007, 12:16 AM
OK first of all, banning someone from a public forum with open registration is about as worthless as Britneyís performance on the VMA awards the other night. Good idea in theory, but poorly executed. Especially with someone who has a dynamic IP.The ban was done by a mod, like myself (thanks David), and not by Routine or one of the admins who can IP ban someone. And for the record, Routine is not at all afraid ban an entire IP range. Somehow I doubt your pool of IP ranges spans several C classes. So before you get all excited about how tricky you think you are, you weren't IP banned so don't go hurting yourself trying to pat yourself on the back.

Secondly, I came to this website to offer a response to Lazy, as he should be after the hackers. Because I know the hackers are what really bugs him. I did not come here defending or condoning gamesaving. I came here to tell you it was the wrong approach.
Yeah, Lazy knows that, I know that, we all know that hackers are a big problem. You didn't "just come here". What we're supposed to believe you were just randomly browsing the internet and happened across this post? Please, truth is you are most likely a full time lurker, visit daily, and hide because you are a gamesaver. You PROBABLY post regularly on another account and didn't want to come out of the closest on this thread so you made a temp account to get your point across. If that is the case, I hope Routine finds the time to track down any other logins coming from that IP range. Unfortunately for me, I doubt your worth his time.
MS is not going to ban 300+ people and loose that amount of income. Especially since these 300+ probably make up for a lot of ms point purchases as well. And especially if they cannot be without a shadow of a doubt, right when accusing them of it. The time to ban people for gamesaving is long past. If there was a way to successfully find all gamesavers with 100% confidence, I would be all for it. But I have to tell you, your beloved Lazy Wolf would be no more.
Uh yeah they will. For the same reason that any MMO bans cheaters or gold farmers. They are ruining the experience for honest gamers, and once they've gone, and taken your reputation as a fair place to play with them, MS has nothing. 300, 3000 or even 30,000 are not worth risking the 6 million+ members.

And if you think Lazy is beloved, you clearly did not read this thread -> Fresh Blood in the Water. Little Heads Up From a Gamesaver (http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28284).

With this new cheating, hacking, because it involves monetary gain from actual un-authorized modification of intellectual property, is ILLEGAL. As in you can be ARRESTED and charged with a crime, never mind MSís terms they do not matter much in the grand scheme of things, and they are also not law. I am not saying that everyone who has hacked is going to be arrested. That is stupid and naÔve to assume. But the admins of 360gs, the ones making the profit..quite possible. No one is going to be arrested for gamesave use, as there is not just a few doing it for all. Do not interpret this comment as defense of gamesaving. Itís ALL cheating, But there is a fine line between what is breaking law, and what just pisses people off. As of now, there are easy ways to find these people, and their numbers are low, even though they are increasing. The time to ban these people will pass like gamesavers already has. Something needs to be done NOW.
Yes, no one is going to the 13 year old kid's house who was experimenting with his Datel device. Yes MS can and will ban people, or did you forget this spring when everyone who had used a save file that had been uploaded to that site had their consoles permanently locked from the service. Sure Roofus might face criminal charges one day, who knows. As I explained in my other post, violated the contract is against the law. It's like speeding or file sharing, only a few get caught and everyone does it, but that doesn't mean everyone isn't breaking the law.

Third, I would like to point out that today is the day in which Sam&Max have birthdays on your site. Very nice.
Happy Birthday Sam&Max. Lots of people enjoyed their comics and games!

TheLazyWolf
09-13-2007, 03:29 AM
Whoa this got a little out of hand. Lets all take a step back and calm down a little bit.

@CC99999- Microsoft could get rid of profile recovery completely, it wouldnt even dent account trading. Peoople make copies of their profile on their cpu via a transfer kit. They give these copies to people to play different games. Any time you sign into live it updates any copy of the profile, to include the scores from all the other copies out there. On the other hand when you recover your profile, it takes a couple hours and it makes all other copies of your profile in existance become invalid.

MS still has an easy fix to this, just device lock the profile to whatever device it is recovered to. Like Oneechanbara Vortex is locked, so its not new technology for them(wondered why you didn't see that many 1000s in that game from gamesavers?)

@SG - What you forget is that the creator of the programs that let you gamesave, is the same guy who is hacking the leaderboard for everyone. There hasn't been a gamesave that worked for everyone in months. All gamesaving for any game that has come out in the last 6 months has been done by 1 of 2 ways. Either Roofus(sufoor backwards get it?) hacked a save and posted it, or people profile glitch it. Since only these 2 ways exist, Targetting either one of them targets gamesavers. Furthermore, as you may have noticed, the people here dont really differentiate between hackers and gamesavers, they all go into the catagory of cheat. Gamesaver is the word that gets them most worked up, so i used it. Perhaps i am guilty of sensationalism, but its splitting heirs. As for the dig at me, you must not realize that i would happily give up my account to have the system fixed. I was always willing to. Im just not going to give it up until it is. At which point i will immediately start a new account, and continue to do what i always do. Which is play games.

Ok to everyone who is still awake and reading this topic after all that rambling, please take a second to review this topic at mgc and post a vote, thanks. http://forums.mygamercard.net/index.php?showtopic=14502

MrHarribalsonya
09-14-2007, 07:27 AM
Some people have no ethics when it comes to gaming. They just convince themselves that they do. But in reality the more they try to justify it, the more they look like an ass.
I'm glad there's a solid group of people (x360a) that will ruthlessly, without mercy, call these people out in the open and deal with them accordingly. Kudos to all the moderators and administrators that spend countless hours keeping these people in there place. I can only hope that one day Microsoft will take the same approach to the people that cheat the achievement system.

italianstallion
09-14-2007, 08:03 AM
"Microsoft could get rid of profile recovery completely"

Not anytime soon. The SOLE reason account recovery is an option is so that you can migrate your live account from xbox to xbox360. With 500,000 people still playing halo 2 DAILY, M$ wants to make it easy as possible to migrate, jump in, and BELIEVE!

Raider
09-14-2007, 04:59 PM
Hehe, I just watched that believe add, hyped for it now. Anyway, I don't think you should get rid of account recovery, a friend of mine is round my house atm and he brought his memory card round so were playing a few co-op games together. Im also helping him beat a few games.

J eVeRy DaY 514
09-15-2007, 05:56 AM
so gamesavers think they shouldn't be banned, but hackers should? maybe i misinterpreted, but that doesn't really make any sense to me seeing as they both obtain achievements for you with little or no effort.

Raider
09-15-2007, 11:54 AM
so gamesavers think they shouldn't be banned, but hackers should? maybe i misinterpreted, but that doesn't really make any sense to me seeing as they both obtain achievements for you with little or no effort.

SG said it best, there is a fine line between what pisses people off and what is illegal. Im not sure if gamesaving is across that line, I don't know enough about it, but hacking defiantly is.

Jdm
09-16-2007, 02:06 AM
I have a feeling this will be :locked down soon.

I applaud M$ for cracking down even further on Gamesavers. I've said this time and time again...Gamesavers dilute and corrupt the Gamerscore System and Leaderboards.

With that being said, Gamesavers piss off a LOT of gamers, especially LEGIT gamers such as ourselves. I hope M$ really enforces their year 9999 ban. What does that mean? A Lifetime Ban.

CovertDog
09-16-2007, 02:28 AM
Good idea Jdm. Leave this open much longer and another gamesaving Idiot will find it and think the have some case.