PDA

View Full Version : Terrible Quality in Achievement Guides


Clipse 2
11-07-2007, 11:15 PM
I could be wrong but I have always been under the impression achievement guides were to be submitted so that mods and admins could take a look at the quality of everything. In the last few months I've noticed some guides going up in game forums that are written on the fly. Someone so over zealous that they post a new thread titled "Achievement Guide" post the first few achievements they've gotten with normally an uninspiring method of gaining them and then continually edit their post as they achieve more. Normally other members will chime in with recommendations of other methods to get the achievements or even post up new ones they've gained themselves before the original poster. By the third or fourth post the entire Achievement Guide thread looks like utter crap; its unorganized, uninspiring, and often times makes me not want to use them.

Because of these not-so-well written achievement guides we're probably seeing more questions seeking further explanation and help to gain particular achievements. It's a sad thing as this is an achievement site, we're here to help people get achievements and the achievement guides are a main way of doing this. They should be well written, detailed, and more-over actually helpful. If members want to take it upon themselves to write an achievement guide thats great, but instead of just posting what could be a half-assed guide into the game's forum it should be submitted so it could be approved. It should also be complete before being submitted and being posted, period. I know we have an award for this and I'm sure thats what drives some members to write these; yet the site as a whole should take a strong-armed stance when it comes to this item. We're looking for quality, not quantity; I, personally am tired of seeing crappy half-assed achievement guides and hope to see a stop to them being posted.

*Note that I'm not naming names or even what games I'm referring to; if a mod or admin wishes to know of them they can PM me. Thanks.

Flickton
11-07-2007, 11:21 PM
I totally agree with you on this matter

Shinobi273
11-07-2007, 11:21 PM
I would like to second this feedback. I would like to see guides written completely and possbily screened by mods before being posted. It should be noted though, that complete guides are posted on the main site. Guides on the main site and guides in the fourms are sometimes different since they have gone though the submittal process. Example: my guide for Tetris Splash is on the main site but not in the forums.

Netnabi4
11-07-2007, 11:47 PM
I wouldn't go so far as to say that the achievement guides are terrible but I agree they should be screened and cleaned up.

I do think though that a collaboration effort of all members who attained achievements is fine and maybe there could be an achievement guide section. Really the game sections are meant to discuss the games and achievements but it would be cleaner if there were a separate section on where the guides would be.

The whole section could be managed by someone just like the Maximum clubs are. In alphabetical order With Stickies at the top. The stickies could be things like guides we need, posting rules, etc.. The guides would be only mod touched threads of the achievement guides.
In the sub categories of this section there could be things such as Guides in the Works(where achievement guides needed are given a shot at by the members of the community), The submittance are(where all completed guides go to be judged), or anything else needed.

It could look something like the following...

Category: Achievement Guides

Completed Guides
Guides in the Works
Submitance Area
Anything else

This is just a rough Idea I had inspired by this post because I'm sure many will agree the entire "guide on the fly" thing is not very enticing nor productive. So my idea is just a quick thought so please don't crucify me if you guys think it's garbage just a simple we really don't need that or some variation would be nice.:)

Maka
11-08-2007, 01:23 AM
I hope its not one of my guides that inspired this post. I often times just start outlines, hoping for help, but sometimes it just doesnt come...

Sometimes my guides are blank in places for week, but I know what you're saying...

Some users are inspired to post an "Achievement Guide" once they get 3 achievements, and then ditch the thread.

Crusher524
11-08-2007, 01:38 AM
I like this idea, it makes sense as well. Before I started posting here, I looked at the guides to help me raise my score, some go into great detail, other's not so much.

The Pants Party
11-08-2007, 02:42 AM
Maka, you should never "hope for help" when putting up an achievement guide thread. If you start the thread, that is taking responsibility to write the guide, so you should know how to get the achievements. Just putting up an outline so you can get your name up there and having everyone else do the work is complete crap.

I agree a lot of the guides have been terrible. One thing I do to counteract this, is when I post them to the main site, I give them a complete overhaul. Fix up the layout, spelling, grammar, etc. I still give full credit to the original "author" but for the site's professional look, I tidy it up. Looking like crap on the forums is one thing, but looking like crap posted to the main site is another.

If you see any guides on the main site that aren't up to snuff, PM me and I'll give them a once over. As for the forums, I'm not too concerned with them being a little messy, so long as the info is good. Likewise if there is something on the forums that needs to be spruced up, I have no qualms editing someone's post to make it look better, so PM me with that as well. If they have a problem with it, they can take it up with me or complain to one of the admins, but the guide will be better off even if they feel I've gone over their head.

ac2565
11-08-2007, 03:23 AM
I acknowledge that my Puzzle Fighter guide is living crap. I was working on fixing it up THEN submitting it but some one submited it before I am even halfway done :(

KewlBrettC
11-08-2007, 03:31 AM
I have come to the point where i don't want to use them anymore :(

Birky
11-08-2007, 03:33 AM
Just wondering, I have only ever written one guide and I thought it was pretty good. But it sounds like there is a lot of crap going around. Just wondering if my SKATE guide is any good? It's on the front page so it can't be to bad I guess... But it would be nice if someone reassured me that it is fine.

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/guide.php?type=Retail&gameID=287

Bodangles
11-08-2007, 04:06 AM
birky, without looking i know that is the trashiest trash ever written by man or child. secondly, i am going to scream and moan and groan and bitch if somebody's entire guide is reiterating the achievement name. i dont care if i need to play religiously to get 50 headshots, how would i get them faster? the ones that go along with the story i understand, but i mean come on. don't be writing a guide to be writing a damn guide. as for netnabi's idea, meester creech can be our pandora. woot woot!:woop:

Clipse 2
11-08-2007, 04:08 AM
Honestly I'm not a Skateboarding game fan so I've never played SKATE, but I did look over your guide and it had actual detail which is what we need.

Here is a current example (by no means am I slamming the person who is working on this guide, but its lacking)

Call Of Duty 4:
Down Boy Down - 20GS- Survive a dog attack
Let the dog attack you and snap its neck. Simple.

My question is if I'm a guest or member looking through guides in the forums for games I might be interested in and want to find a safe place for help if need be; how the God's name does that example help me? When might a dog attack me? Are there dogs running around every where like there are wolves in Oblivion? How do I snap its neck? I think you can see where I'm going with it. Give me a level where this can be done, where in the level to be expecting it, and maybe even the actual button to press to snap its neck. That would be helpful, wouldn't you think?

Bodangles
11-08-2007, 04:55 AM
i thought i would post an example of guides i enjoyed or would wish to be modeled off of in the future....however this one i posted is super nice and almost too in-depth for every guide [but of course if you can do this, cheeeeers :drunk]. it is the hitman guide, and it is collaborative, but nonetheless one i used to expect before joining the site. it has level walkthroughs [and video ones :O] but more importantly the guide includes the locations of the collectibles and what not. links to threads are appreciated in any guide equally too. but some guides, no naming, just say look at the forum. i don't want to look at the forum! i want to be connected! anyways, i'd say thats a fantastic all around effort.

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5007

killlah631
11-08-2007, 05:03 AM
I do agree but I don't think there is enough to say the Achievement Guides as a whole has terrible quality. There is only a select few that aren't to great. For the most part a lot of them are pretty in-depth and helpful.

PerpetualHeaven
11-08-2007, 05:12 AM
I so agree. I've held back from writing so many guides as of late because really, I see all these other guides up. No offense to some people, but yes they get a little excited and just start writing sub-par guides. I think we should go back to what we did before and that's complete the game first or at least the majority of it THEN create your guide.

I think creating a guide before hand will turn off some people and then in turn we could lose a perfectly good guide for one that may stay incomplete for a very long time or just turn out to be mediocre.

Really, I would like to write an Assassin's Creed guide, but chances are I won't get to because by the time I even buy the game, someone already has a guide up. Of course I wouldn't make the guide until I've reached 1000 for the game but you know how it is now and days, if you haven't called dibs, you shouldn't even have the thought of making a guide.

And Clipse, that snap the neck example, golden. I have seen a lot of that as of late and some guides are very scarce in terms of information. One example I have and I'm not going to name the guide or person, but it was something along the lines of "you can't miss it." Well guess what, I didn't miss one, two, or three, I actually missed four of them through out the game. I had to go back and replay each of those levels with the hidden objects and I can't say that was fun for me.

If you want to know what a good guide is, check out the dead rising guide. This is by far the best guide we have:

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/guide.php?type=Retail&gameID=55

4 guys worked on it together and there you go, so much detail and information. They made maps and all of this other stuff. There is nothing lackey about that.

Bodangles
11-08-2007, 05:13 AM
the guides before the end of summer were great. you could come here and find pretty much what you needed on the main page, or in the forums if it was linked. after the end of summer and beginning of school, it seems like anyone who had too much time on their hands and haven't even achieved more than 800-all of the points wrote a few achievements and settled. i think that is unacceptable. so, wrapping this all up, i think the argument is for the newer achievement guides as opposed to the oldies and goodies.

EDIT- perp beat me to the post and had a great example with dead rising. that guide pretty much carried me to my 960. also touches on a good point with preventing new guides. as friendly as a community this is, i feel as if writing a completely new guide would offend somebody and cause some tensions. maybe a guideline for these guides would be the point value they have received on the game. just shooting some ideas out there.

PerpetualHeaven
11-08-2007, 05:27 AM
the guides before the end of summer were great. you could come here and find pretty much what you needed on the main page, or in the forums if it was linked. after the end of summer and beginning of school, it seems like anyone who had too much time on their hands and haven't even achieved more than 800-all of the points wrote a few achievements and settled. i think that is unacceptable. so, wrapping this all up, i think the argument is for the newer achievement guides as opposed to the oldies and goodies.

Touche my friend. I saw a decline even around summer time. People just like having their names up there and you know what, I can't blame you. When I had my N3 guide posted, I was addicted. I started making a whole bunch of other guides. I haven't since Harry Potter though (main credit goes to Rocket) and really it sucks. I love making them.

As you pointed out AchMaster, creating a new guide would feel wrong. Honestly, I'm sure a lot of people would be upset. Guides have that kind of effect on people. Makes you feel good like you contributed something to the site. You're a part of the growing phenomenon (yes, we're a phenomenon :p).

And you're right the Dead Rising guide is incredible. You want to know another great guide? The Bioshock. It may not initially seem like it, but click on the thread links. SRH Kronic did an incredible job of locating all the Dairies and weapon upgrades. Or even the location of all the Tonics and Plasmids. Nuts. Just freaking nuts.

I am but a mere moderator though. Guides are not my area. Really, the only people who can do anything are the mods who are controlling the guides or an admin. Even then, the mods who post the guides are already extremely busy. But keep the suggestions rolling. I would like some goodness restored in guides.

Clipse 2
11-08-2007, 05:36 AM
My suggestion would be when you start the game start the guide, but not on the damn forums. Keep it to yourself until you have the full 1000 GS then post it. But even then it needs to be worth something and done right. We're talking about these guides needing to be assets to the site; something that helps bring gamers in. Right now we've got some that are more liabilities than anything. More questions are being raised for clarification or seeking strategies. The guide should already have all of that; there should only be messages saying "Great job on the guide guys, worked to a 'T'." and such.

I'm sorry to be bitching and moaning about this, but with some of them as they are I just want to ask the author why freaking bother.

Bodangles
11-08-2007, 05:39 AM
i just took a good look at the Bioshock guide, and wow. i had never seen it before but the maps, locations, etc really put all they could offer into the guide. the fact that they took the time to map out all of the locations and specifically describe the locations, even when they have a map! what really stood out to me was how flip described what you could not do if you wanted to get the achievement. this shows he has played the game, at least once, and knows what he is talking about. all around fantastic job. these are the guides we need. are maps necessary? no but in-depth locations, tips or tricks for the harder part of a level, etc. are what make a guide.

guide (n) - a book, pamphlet, etc., giving instructions or advice.

ADVICE PEOPLE! ADVICE!

EDIT- seriously, i can not beat you experienced folk. but yea Clipse that was my thought exactly. mark down the guide as you go, to yourself! nobody cares that you know how to pass training. just wait. and i just realized that i'm coming off as unappreciative of the guides, but i really do appreciate guides it is just becoming harder and harder to appreciate them at such decreased quality.

McQBallPlayer17
11-08-2007, 05:41 AM
I agree, I looked to this site for help on achievements and most of time found things that I already knew and no help on the achievements I actually needed help on. I've actually started to avoid using this site for guides because they are so cheap.

The Pants Party
11-08-2007, 05:56 AM
Like I said, guys... PM me if you see a shitty guide and I will make necessary changes or if I have not played the game, I will make an announcement that another guide is needed. Achievements and guides are our bread and butter, so we need to get them right.

Conker Rules All
11-08-2007, 07:02 AM
Like I said, guys... PM me if you see a shitty guide and I will make necessary changes or if I have not played the game, I will make an announcement that another guide is needed. Achievements and guides are our bread and butter, so we need to get them right.


ya lol because i've truely been noticing it like people who have played the game think they have the right to make an achievement guide even though they have 40/1000 yes they are helpful but wait until you know more about the achievements or if someone beats you too it let it be

Spades12321
11-08-2007, 10:04 AM
All of the guides could do with a more detail, some of them are just one liners that offer no help at all, some just say that it is pretty obvious what to do and in some cases it is not. There are however some great guides like: bioshock, dead rising, lost planet and THP8. I will edit my post later and post some more guides that I think need improving/editing.

Spiderman 3 - For the token achievements, all it says is collect 35 secret tokens etc, what use is that! There should be a link taking you to a guide, map or screenshots to help you find them, not state the obvious. For the trick races and bomb tours all it says is beat the bomb tours with bronze or get gold on all trick races, there should be some tips or advice in telling you the best way to beat the bomb tours/races. Saying get at least bronze or gold doesnt get anybody any closer to the achievement.

Call of Duty 3 - There are some nice tips to helping you beat veteran mode, but a guide telling you how to get past each level individually or just the real hard parts like the forest level and the boiler room would be more helpful.

Mad Tracks - The guide for ultra fast food just says get two laps done in under 1min 15 secs, that is basically the achievement description, not very helpful. Here we need a description on the best place to use boosters or even better if someone does a video of them doing it and post it up.

pongsifu
11-08-2007, 11:35 AM
I agree wholeheartedly. There needs to be a simpler way of improving guides that are lackluster. I know you can submit a guide on a game that is already done but they aren't used often because it isn't a priority and it takes time to see which description is better. Some achievements don't explain much and many just copy and paste the description of the achievement, even if they aren't self explanatory. On the other hand, for the ones that are self explanatory like "complete level X" instead of saying "just beat level X" why not give tips and strategies on level X?

jackanape
11-08-2007, 12:18 PM
I agree with what you are saying, as a half assed guide doesn't really help anyone, but at the same time I do consider most of the guides in the forums to be a 'work in progress' where people can add their thoughts and suggestions. Whereas, guides that have been submitted and are up on the main page of a game should be fully functional and ready to go.

I do agree that some guides just say 'Complete the game' and in that case it should be more of a walkthrough than anything else that is required. Just saying - do this level and you'll get it, is no help to anyone.

Clipse 2
11-08-2007, 01:03 PM
I agree with what you are saying, as a half assed guide doesn't really help anyone, but at the same time I do consider most of the guides in the forums to be a 'work in progress' where people can add their thoughts and suggestions. Whereas, guides that have been submitted and are up on the main page of a game should be fully functional and ready to go.
Thats fine, I have no problem with people collaborating on a guide, in all honest its probably best so there can be multiple strategies to getting the achievements. But when you post a few achievements, someone posts a few more, then there are people asking questions in between all the posts the thread and guide turn out looking like shit. I'm not singling you out and I don't know what guides you've done or are working on.

Its in my beliefs that the guides which are on the main page and in the forums should be one and the same. Why should we have a guide in the game forums that isn't worth a damn, isn't helpful, and just creates questions from members when the guide on the main page is organized, detailed, and helpful? Shouldn't we have a quality guide in the forums as well? I think it might be a misconception that people look at the guides located on the main page, I am willing to wager that many people when they first visit this site don't even know they are there. So what do they do when they don't know they're there? They come do the forums where they might find a thread thats got a few achievements and suggestions here and there. It might not be complete, a work in progress, completely unorganized, or whatever; in the end it could turn that person off to the site then you have to deal with possible word of mouth saying this site sucks and isn't helpful at all.

Pants said it earlier, achievements and guides are our bread and butter; thats basically why this site is here and was started right? We have a review team that writes game reviews, why not get a small group of members and have a guide team? Either they can work on guides themselves and/or review guides that are posted by other members. I'm well aware you can't control a member from posting a thread titled "Achievement Guide" but an Admin can sure as hell delete the damn thing if its total crap.

I don't know what will come of this, but I know I'm definitely not alone in this matter. I do strongly feel that the site needs to get a handle on the matter and be very watchful over the forums of newly released games.

Netnabi4
11-08-2007, 01:27 PM
Thats fine, I have no problem with people collaborating on a guide, in all honest its probably best so there can be multiple strategies to getting the achievements. But when you post a few achievements, someone posts a few more, then there are people asking questions in between all the posts the thread and guide turn out looking like shit. I'm not singling you out and I don't know what guides you've done or are working on.

Its in my beliefs that the guides which are on the main page and in the forums should be one and the same. Why should we have a guide in the game forums that isn't worth a damn, isn't helpful, and just creates questions from members when the guide on the main page is organized, detailed, and helpful? Shouldn't we have a quality guide in the forums as well? I think it might be a misconception that people look at the guides located on the main page, I am willing to wager that many people when they first visit this site don't even know they are there. So what do they do when they don't know they're there? They come do the forums where they might find a thread thats got a few achievements and suggestions here and there. It might not be complete, a work in progress, completely unorganized, or whatever; in the end it could turn that person off to the site then you have to deal with possible word of mouth saying this site sucks and isn't helpful at all.

Pants said it earlier, achievements and guides are our bread and butter; thats basically why this site is here and was started right? We have a review team that writes game reviews, why not get a small group of members and have a guide team? Either they can work on guides themselves and/or review guides that are posted by other members. I'm well aware you can't control a member from posting a thread titled "Achievement Guide" but an Admin can sure as hell delete the damn thing if its total crap.

I don't know what will come of this, but I know I'm definitely not alone in this matter. I do strongly feel that the site needs to get a handle on the matter and be very watchful over the forums of newly released games.

I completely agree with everything you said. I think a Guide team just like the review team would be a great idea. I know for sure that it would be more organized. I Believe we should consider all the options we have. Such as a Guide team, separate section to the forum, continue the way we are, or anything else.

jackanape
11-08-2007, 03:59 PM
A guide team seems like a good idea, but we all know there are gonna be some games that no one really plays and get missed out. There are already a number of US/UK/Japan only games that very few people have 1000 on, so would a select group of guide writers be qualified to write a guide for such games.

Probably not.

I'm not trying to be argumentative as I totally agree that guides on the forums can give a bad image of this great site and I think if people are gonna call 'dibs' on a guide then they should have the courtesy to see it through to the end and write an informative, complete guide that is actually helpful. Rather than abandoning it halfway through when they get bored.

At least with a guide team it would make sure when someone says they are going to do a guide it would actually get done, as when someone 'calls' a guide now it puts other people off even starting - people who may well have done a much better job. I just don't know how the team could work in practice.

Perhaps, rather than having a set team people could have a deadline to work to in having their guides completed, on have a rule that you can only post COMPLETE guides IF you have a full 1000 in the game in question.

Of course, if there is a team - count me in hee hee! ;)

EDIT: Perhaps when an incomplete guide is up on the forum but still being worked on, it could be locked by the Mods so that only the author can edit it. Any help or tips other people have could be sent to the author in the form of a PM and this could be mentioned on the guide itself. It would stop the thread getting cluttered and looking shabby.

Zef
11-08-2007, 04:50 PM
If you think a guide is crap then feel free to write your own to replace it. That is something people don't seem to catch onto and why so many guides aren't up to the standards of the better guides, something that should be advertised more.

I remember that there were three Two Worlds guides written before there was one put onto the site, the first one was just a shoddy mash-up of different people's work. The second was good but not as detailed as the third (which is the one on the site now). If the first one had been put up then the other two probably wouldn't have been made and then there would be more complaints such as this. But even if only one guide is written it shouldn't 'win' just for being the only one, if it isn't up to scratch then it should be rejected or rewritten by someone else and put up either anonymously or under the second person's name. Not to steal the glory but to make people think before they submit stuff.

I expect The Pants Party will be getting plenty of messages to edit guides now =P

PerpetualHeaven
11-08-2007, 05:04 PM
A guide team seems like a good idea, but we all know there are gonna be some games that no one really plays and get missed out. There are already a number of US/UK/Japan only games that very few people have 1000 on, so would a select group of guide writers be qualified to write a guide for such games.

Probably not.

I'm not trying to be argumentative as I totally agree that guides on the forums can give a bad image of this great site and I think if people are gonna call 'dibs' on a guide then they should have the courtesy to see it through to the end and write an informative, complete guide that is actually helpful. Rather than abandoning it halfway through when they get bored.

At least with a guide team it would make sure when someone says they are going to do a guide it would actually get done, as when someone 'calls' a guide now it puts other people off even starting - people who may well have done a much better job. I just don't know how the team could work in practice.

Perhaps, rather than having a set team people could have a deadline to work to in having their guides completed, on have a rule that you can only post COMPLETE guides IF you have a full 1000 in the game in question.

Of course, if there is a team - count me in hee hee! ;)

EDIT: Perhaps when an incomplete guide is up on the forum but still being worked on, it could be locked by the Mods so that only the author can edit it. Any help or tips other people have could be sent to the author in the form of a PM and this could be mentioned on the guide itself. It would stop the thread getting cluttered and looking shabby.

I think the suggestion for the guide team was more of a team to edit the guides rather then create the guides themselves considering there is a mass abundance of guides. Regardless, Pants said he's taking care of it now and I'm sure if anyone has complaints just send it to Pants.

If you think a guide is crap then feel free to write your own to replace it. That is something people don't seem to catch onto and why so many guides aren't up to the standards of the better guides, something that should be advertised more.

I remember that there were three Two Worlds guides written before there was one put onto the site, the first one was just a shoddy mash-up of different people's work. The second was good but not as detailed as the third (which is the one on the site now). If the first one had been put up then the other two probably wouldn't have been made and then there would be more complaints such as this. But even if only one guide is written it shouldn't 'win' just for being the only one, if it isn't up to scratch then it should be rejected or rewritten by someone else and put up either anonymously or under the second person's name. Not to steal the glory but to make people think before they submit stuff.

I expect The Pants Party will be getting plenty of messages to edit guides now =P

Most people get discouraged when there's already a crap incomplete guide stickied and they feel like doing extra work would be pointless since there's already one up. As I go along, I'll be posting my thoughts on guides and how it can be improved anyways.

Clipse 2
11-08-2007, 05:25 PM
Most people get discouraged when there's already a crap incomplete guide stickied and they feel like doing extra work would be pointless since there's already one up. As I go along, I'll be posting my thoughts on guides and how it can be improved anyways.
Pretty much spot on along my lines of thinking. I don't think a guide should be stickied unless its the exact same one thats accessible from the Home page. Why should be have multiple guides in the first place? I know there would be some what of a backlash if you have a crappy guide posted in a forum, another guide comes a long thats better, gets stickied you'll then have a pissy member who'll be asking "Why wasn't my guide stickied???".

Details, details, details people; no more one liners, if thats the standard we're going to use let me go buy a chimpanzee and we'll just let him do all of our guides. I know there are some damn good guides out there and they are produced by damn good members. Many of the guides I've seen as of late are from members I don't know much about or haven't seen them all too active. But just because you're the first to get a game doesn't mean you need to rush through it to put up a guide; thats how we end up with incomplete, unorganized guides in the first place.

In all honesty if anything comes from me starting all this I hope EVERYONE who wishes to do a guide read this before they start, because there are a few of us who are watching. I for one will be some what outspoken, if I see something thats crap I'll politely PM you and tell you what you need to do to fix it; if that doesn't work then you'll be dealing with Pants. As members we all have a say in those type of things that are put up on the site. It's everyone's duty to keep things top notch and kept expectations high so lets get this fixed and be mindful that others come here to view them.

Bodangles
11-08-2007, 05:28 PM
ha i've already sent pants my main page guide complaints via PM but zef is right. he's right that we probably should just right the guide that owns the crappy two achievement guide. only problem is we dont have Flibble backin us up when the going gets tough. also, i just wish that "guides" wouldnt be put up until finished! errr just simply not user-friendly. take for example, i have seen about 9 call of duty guides in the last 2 days. finally Cyrex posted a clean, organized one [although it is not finished!11!]. i mean at least it is user-friendly and accessible to everybody. moral of the story is don't post a guide if A) it doesn't have all of the achievements B)if it is only information that applies to you a.k.a: "it's simple"

EDIT-SERIOUSLY CLIPSE DO YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO POST RIGHT BEFORE ME? :p

and yet again more great points. i guess if the guides dont improve sooner than later i'll send out pm's, especially if theyre games i'm working on.

The Pants Party
11-08-2007, 06:34 PM
A few people have mentioned me calling "dibs" on the Halo guide. I actually did that for this specific reason. I knew every person on the forums would want their name next to the guide and try to throw one together the day the game was released. Instead, I started mine hidden away in the staff board an entire week before, fleshing out most of the strategies and links to the skull and terminal threads, that kind of thing. Some of the info did need to be changed, but at least the thread was neat and orderly, and the content was spelled correctly and that kind of thing.

Anyway, I will be going through pretty much every guide we have on the site, making necessary changes of my own accord but keeping full credit to the original author. For instance, King Kong doesn't really need an achievement guide per se, but a link to a walkthrough would be helpful. A lot of games are like that. Some of the earlier sports games are crap as well, don't mention tricks like using two controllers and messing with sliders. Little stuff that is all over the forums, but it needs to be on the main page as well.

I will also be reformatting things a bit. When a guide is complete and accepted by the mods/admins, it will be posted on the main site. A duplicate will be posted on the forums in a locked, stickied thread. There will be two links at the top of the thread, first thing. A link to the "Achievement Discussion" thread and a link to the original guide from the forums, which will be renamed to "Achievement Guide Discussion." -- This way, someone can simply look at the guide, then for further questions head to one of the discussion threads, keeping the guide itself nice and neat.

I'll post an example when I get one done sometime this afternoon.

If a guide is put on the forums and is deemed unworthy by myself or any other mod, they will be given a warning and have a few days to clean it up and finish it. Failure will lead to the thread being locked. They can retry with another thread, but only if they have made significant improvements at the time of the second attempt. If they repost the same thing and say they'll edit it in later, it will just be locked again.

Like Zef mentioned, even existing guides can always be improved on. If you have a better strategy for even one achievement, let us know and we'll add it in and give you credit as a note for that achievement. If you think you can do a better guide for an entire thing, go for it. But try to keep things in the submit forum if there is an existing guide on the main page so the forums don't get cluttered with people posting updated guides. Like I mentioned above, whatever is on the main page will get put into the stickied, locked "Achievement Guide" thread that a mod will post.

EDIT: Here is an example of the new format. I took the guide from the main page, posted it to the forums, changed the name of the old guide, then directed questions to it or the achievement discussion threads.

http://xbox360achievements.org/forum/showthread.php?t=44295

Webb
11-08-2007, 11:56 PM
We hear your concerns and will look in to remedying this in the very near future. Look out for a step up in quality and a crackdown on poor guides. The poorer guides will be looked in to being upgraded to what the site is used to and known for.

But please guys, if you see a guide and you think "Meh, I could do better", then please... Submit one and it will surely be put up to replace it.

killlah631
11-09-2007, 12:05 AM
Oh that's good to hear I was planning on doing that but I thought I might get bitched at for doing it...

Cyrex
11-09-2007, 01:14 AM
If anyone wants to know what guides are good quality then look in Creech's achievement guide thread and he has a list of some of the best ones. Also other than those look for anything that Wreckon writes, the only thing i have to complain about Wreckon's is that he may go into enough detail as to ruin the story... :p:p, don't worry wreckon its not an insult



as for the COD4 guide which is the original reason for this topic i am working on a new one as we speak i am almost done but i need to finish writing some of the achievements and i am looking to create a vid for an especially hard part. It seems that people will write a guide as quickly as possible just so they can get it up and try to get the award. Your really committed to helping the site when you write more after getting the award, Word to the wise if people write a crap guide IT DOESN'T COUNT

Bodangles
11-09-2007, 01:20 AM
as for the COD4 guide which is the original reason for this topic i am working on a new one as we speak i am almost done but i need to finish writing some of the achievements and i am looking to create a vid for an especially hard part. It seems that people will write a guide as quickly as possible just so they can get it up and try to get the award. Your really committed to helping the site when you write more after getting the award, Word to the wise if people write a crap guide IT DOESN'T COUNT

thanks Cyrex i appreciate you getting on top of the CoD4 issue. the guide looks well on its progress. and pants, definitely a great job on the new discussions. i think that with only mods editing the guides, it ensures the quality of the guides. one thing i was curious about, however, is that i was under the impression guides were supposed to be submitted in the Submit subforum in order to be posted. has this changed at all, or is it just because it isn't possible to control what users post? thanks for all of the dedication to solving this problem, guys :).

Scotian Bred
11-09-2007, 02:01 AM
Guides seem to be a tricky thing to write .. i wrote three so far and all of them were alright in my eyes .. for some reason though your not really thinking about making a guide until you are done getting the 1000 (am i right) unless your a hardcore guide writter and after getting 1000 some of the info can't be remembered but i went all out on the Cars:mater Nationals guide making maps and everything .. so what to do if you don't remember everything .. leave to someone else or keep an eye on it and keep it updated after finding new info on the web? after writting a guide shouldn't you be responsible and not the mods in keeping it updated and relevent?.. i agree that people who haven't completed the game and gained all achievements should not even bother with begining an achievement guide but learning from past mistakes helps anyone become a better member on any site.

Webb
11-09-2007, 02:04 AM
I personally write a guide when I'm actually playing the game. It's the same as when I review a game, I make notes on stuff and then put it all together at the end. It took me a fortnight I reckon to write my Blue Dragon guide and that was all done as I did the achievements. Writing after as you suggest is maybe not the most ideal tactic.

Scotian Bred
11-09-2007, 02:12 AM
I personally write a guide when I'm actually playing the game. It's the same as when I review a game, I make notes on stuff and then put it all together at the end. It took me a fortnight I reckon to write my Blue Dragon guide and that was all done as I did the achievements. Writing after as you suggest is maybe not the most ideal tactic.

i hear ya there, just now looking on the fourms a second ago i seen a guide for the new Lego Star Wars bieng written as it goes along .. shouldn't you really post a thread called "Achievement Guide" after your done the game there is still these things called paper and pen i think or if you make mistakes alot you could use a pencil !

Webb
11-09-2007, 02:17 AM
The thing is though, some of the best guides on these here forums are collaborations. They have started out as nothing but a few achievements for a guide and then with everyone's help they have been the best damn achievement guides around! Take for example...

Saints Row
Dead Rising
Bioshock
Crackdown
Blue Dragon


I think we should encourage more of these efforts in all honesty as it was these sort of guides that gave us such a good reputation to start with :)

Maka
11-09-2007, 02:19 AM
Maka, you should never "hope for help" when putting up an achievement guide thread. If you start the thread, that is taking responsibility to write the guide, so you should know how to get the achievements. Just putting up an outline so you can get your name up there and having everyone else do the work is complete crap.


Thats complete bullshit dude.

Whenever someone helps me, their name is always right beside mine in the end. And if I start a thread, I take it as my responsibility to finish it, and I do. I could care less about having my name in the "lights" take it off everywhere for all I care, thats not why I write them, I write them to help people.

Is expecting a little forum help so wrong? Is it wrong when I finish the guide even if I dont get any help, or if I do? I dont have any outstanding guides, because I finish what I start, whether I get help or not. I do start outlines on occasion, because I know I will get more achievements along the way, but at the current time have information for some of them. I mostly do these because I dont have enough time to do them during one sitting, and I want to let people know that one has been started, if they want to help then that's their prerogative. Theres not one guide that I have written thats not 90% of my own stuff, within respect where it is due, so I dont know where you're coming from?

Webb
11-09-2007, 02:23 AM
Now now. We're all friends here ;)

tjayars
11-09-2007, 02:36 AM
If you think a guide is crap then feel free to write your own to replace it. That is something people don't seem to catch onto and why so many guides aren't up to the standards of the better guides, something that should be advertised more.



Honestly, I'd like to contribute. I've seen errors and misinformation. What I don't want to do is rewrite a guide thereby "stealing someones thunder" but I would like credit for my contribution if and when the original is edited. In what format and who do I submit this information? I'm sure this is the start of my being flamed for not finding the obvious information.

PerpetualHeaven
11-09-2007, 02:42 AM
Personally, when I write one I finish the entire thousand first. Obviously while I'm playing I have it in my mind. I beat the game first then think about ways that can make it faster then try those out. Not only that, but when I write a guide, I think of it the same way as I was playing. Here are some questions I usually ask myself while writing a guide:

- Would I ask more questions after reading this guide?
- Is there enough clarity to prevent confusion?
- Can I do that part faster and make it easier?
- Is there enough detail?
- Can it easily be improved upon?

Obviously, you can't always satisfy each question. Even the best guides will give rise to questions, but still you have to ask it to yourself after you're finished. Really, there's no such thing as too much but there is such thing as too little. Honestly, I took the time for the Madden 07 guide and inputted every single record possible. I didn't have to but I did. I think my Just Cause guide is pretty shoddy though :p That's how NOT to write a guide. Either way, I look at some of my old guides and yeah I definitely can improve upon them. Will I? Probably all of them (excluding my N3 one).

Really, if you see something and don't think it's up to snuff, message one of the mods or admins and tell them. If you think you can write a better one definitely do so. Please refrain from posting it on the forums though as it could create conflict. When it comes to guide writing, I'm sure people get really sensitive.

Bodangles
11-09-2007, 04:15 AM
there are too many people to quote but in regards to the collaborations, that is not the problem, IMO. in fact i'm all for the collaboration. what i am sick of is the posting of one or two achievements. post all of them and then add the content submitted by the others as time progresses. also in response to number uno, it is the job of the person who wrote the guide to maintain that thread's quality but by giving mods control of the thread ensures that it will be updated. once again, collaboration good, but it needs to be more complete and organized. pants party model esta muy bien!

ac2565
11-09-2007, 07:35 AM
The thing is though, some of the best guides on these here forums are collaborations. They have started out as nothing but a few achievements for a guide and then with everyone's help they have been the best damn achievement guides around! Take for example...

Saints Row

Honestly I didn't find the Saints Row guide helpful. The thing I needed help with (the activites) weren't given strategies and instead there was info about what I get if I completed it. It was also copied and pasted for all the activity achievments.

Webb
11-09-2007, 02:05 PM
Honestly I didn't find the Saints Row guide helpful. The thing I needed help with (the activites) weren't given strategies and instead there was info about what I get if I completed it. It was also copied and pasted for all the activity achievments.

Wow, I found it hugely helpful. Personal preference really. But all the hints for the hitmans and other stuff was hugely helpful in my honest opinion. Each to their own I guess :p

jackanape
11-09-2007, 04:20 PM
Personally, when I write one I finish the entire thousand first. Obviously while I'm playing I have it in my mind. I beat the game first then think about ways that can make it faster then try those out. Not only that, but when I write a guide, I think of it the same way as I was playing. Here are some questions I usually ask myself while writing a guide:

- Would I ask more questions after reading this guide?
- Is there enough clarity to prevent confusion?
- Can I do that part faster and make it easier?
- Is there enough detail?
- Can it easily be improved upon?

Obviously, you can't always satisfy each question. Even the best guides will give rise to questions, but still you have to ask it to yourself after you're finished. Really, there's no such thing as too much but there is such thing as too little. Honestly, I took the time for the Madden 07 guide and inputted every single record possible. I didn't have to but I did. I think my Just Cause guide is pretty shoddy though :p That's how NOT to write a guide. Either way, I look at some of my old guides and yeah I definitely can improve upon them. Will I? Probably all of them (excluding my N3 one).

Really, if you see something and don't think it's up to snuff, message one of the mods or admins and tell them. If you think you can write a better one definitely do so. Please refrain from posting it on the forums though as it could create conflict. When it comes to guide writing, I'm sure people get really sensitive.

I agree with all of this, especially the questions. The guides need to be thorough enough to be followed by anybody. I realise some games ARE simple and just playing them through will get the job done, but if you're gonna write a guide for a game like that do a full walkthrough. Just saying complete the level is helping nobody.

Plenty has been said on this subject now but I think everyone is trying to aim in the same direction, the problem is that people are always going to post guides without 'asking permission' or doing a good job. The best thing to do in those cases is either remove them or help the writer out, add your own ideas and tell them what's wrong/missing. As a community we should help each other first and foremost.

The Pants Party
11-09-2007, 04:49 PM
When I write guides, I assume an eight year old girl will be using it to play the game. It should be idiot-proof and take into account any skill level or knowledge of the game.

Say someone reads an achievement list and it looks hard. When they read the achievement guide, it should then sound easy.

PerpetualHeaven
11-09-2007, 05:20 PM
Personally, I think everyone should try and avoid posting an achievement guide before it's done unless it's something in the situation of Pants Party for Halo 3 where a whole bunch of maniacs will probably create an achievement guide thread. I also know that collaborations have produced some of the best guides, but that is so very rare.

People rarely want to share an achievement guide with multiple people. In that case, I would prefer if people avoided creating an achievement guide thread and just do things like how we used to. If you have an achievement guide fully completed, then post it on the forums OR submit it. That's how things used to be done and that's when we were churning out much better guides. Again that's my preference and I usually don't have any control, but if someone makes an achievement guide as soon as the game is released with zero information and you're reserving spots, I would probably close it. Take your time and make a good one.

Honestly, people who call dibs on guides or make guides before they've finished the game generally turn out to be bad guides. It's very rare that a guide will turn out even 1/10th as good as Pants. The guy is dedicated and pays extreme attention to detail. That's the kind of person he is. But how many people on this site are like that? They're slim. Also, when I read a guide I personally check the persons gamercard. I mean if that person has 200 points and made a guide for a thousand, chances are I'll just go and do my own thing. If they can't get a thousand from their own guide, I'm probably not going to be able to either.

Basically what I'm saying is AVOID posting a guide before you've even beaten it or at least if you're going to do that, make it GOOD.

UraMallas
11-09-2007, 06:44 PM
Well, I made my first guide for Switchball right here:

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showthread.php?t=44191

It was my first guide so I didn't know the exact procedure. Like I didn't know if I worked on it in word and then went and submitted it to the admins or what. So I put it together in the Switchball forum and also made the Speed Runs video thread and the Hidden Paths thread and then linked and refered to them in the guide. I then submitted the guide in the guides section, I hope that was the way to do this and if it wasn't I apologize but if you could tell me how to do it from now on I'd be more than happy to follow guidelines. It was just that it was my first guide and I wasn't exactly sure how to go about putting it together. I also haven't gotten any confirmation one way or the other on if it was approved or not...

Legend Has It 1
12-17-2007, 08:38 PM
I think most of the guides are pretty weak, most of the games I play are harder for me to get all 1,000 achievements. I'm not the best video game player in the world but I like to try to hit all 1,000. I do think the one thing that bothers me more then anything is when someone describes multiplayer achievements like "get 2 friends" or "if you can't get this you suck"

I also think people should try to not say "hardest achievement ever." atleast give people hope by saying like "it's really hard but takes a little bit of time to do" and then give an example ofhow you did it.

Tron
12-17-2007, 08:49 PM
I think most of the guides are pretty weak, most of the games I play are harder for me to get all 1,000 achievements. I'm not the best video game player in the world but I like to try to hit all 1,000. I do think the one thing that bothers me more then anything is when someone describes multiplayer achievements like "get 2 friends" or "if you can't get this you suck"

I also think people should try to not say "hardest achievement ever." atleast give people hope by saying like "it's really hard but takes a little bit of time to do" and then give an example ofhow you did it.

i think another problem is that are a lot of people that like to talk about how bad they are but they dont do shit about it, like lets say, making a guide...

this is a community, not a service.

any additions to guides, or clarifications to guides that are sent to the submit guide ARE added...why do i know that? because i add them. If you dont like something, and you think your way would be more helpful to the rest of the community, SUBMIT it... if you dont like a guide, and cant make a better one, then guess what, the guide is more helpful than no guide.


Less hating and more participating.

LESS HATE IN 08

VOTE FOR TRON.

*peace sign with both hands*

narcolepticshee
12-17-2007, 08:51 PM
When I write guides, I assume an eight year old girl will be using it to play the game. It should be idiot-proof and take into account any skill level or knowledge of the game.

Say someone reads an achievement list and it looks hard. When they read the achievement guide, it should then sound easy.

That is a damn good way to look at it. I did something at school where we had to write instructions for a product and the lecturers said exactly the same thing.

Peace

Legend Has It 1
12-17-2007, 08:54 PM
any additions to guides, or clarifications to guides that are sent to the submit guide ARE added...why do i know that? because i add them. If you dont like something, and you think your way would be more helpful to the rest of the community, SUBMIT it... if you dont like a guide, and cant make a better one, then guess what, the guide is more helpful than no guide.

what sense does that make? Isn't this thread about how bad the guides are? You are basically saying that a guide that is posted that is not helpful at all to users is better then a guide that is not submitted? That does not resolve the issue.

Tron
12-17-2007, 08:56 PM
a guide out there is more helpful than no guide. its science.

if you dont like it, you can go get your guides somewhere else or you can stop your bitching and help out.

remember....

Vote for Tron.


PS. I get sick of you guys bitching and doing nothing about it... take action, make the site better.... seems like some people see a free site, ad free mind you, and take it for granted...

PSS. bitching about how bad something is doesnt make it better..

psss. Tron 08.

ps4. *saved for future editing*

Legend Has It 1
12-17-2007, 09:35 PM
thank you for recomending me to another site.

PerpetualHeaven
12-17-2007, 10:24 PM
thank you for recomending me to another site.

You would rather bitch, do nothing, and go to a different site instead of contributing? Wow. I don't know about you, but have you been to the other sites? They suck... really bad. They hardly give away any prizes, their communities blow, they hardly have contests, etc. It's so much easier to contribute then whine constantly.

Tron
12-17-2007, 10:28 PM
thank you for recomending me to another site.

any time brother, you can piss and moan somewhere else...


I DONT PLACATE

Tron in 08

Tron
12-17-2007, 10:38 PM
im going to double post, and not because i can, but because i want all the voters out there to know about my platform...

i do not condone bitching. i dont. I dont mind that the majority of this sites users are not contributors... i think its great. what i do mind, is being bitching about a certain facate of the site that they dont help with. Pants, clipse, they are contributors. UrsMallas= contributor. i know these guys, i have seen and added their work. but people that come to this site, for free mind you, looking for help and then annoyed by the help that they receive? thats ungrateful, and its a cut on all of us that do work hard to keep this site over.

x360a is great.
Tron in 08

Shinobi273
12-17-2007, 10:52 PM
Sorry for the off topic post, but what are you running for? Are you trying to become an admin?

Legend Has It 1
12-17-2007, 10:54 PM
listen man I have never bitched in any other post, I'm not going to another site, I love it here...Tron basically said in a post about trying to make guides better that if a guide is not good enough, if you can't contribute then go somewhere else...the thing is how can I contribute to a guide that I NEED?

I want to contibute very badly to this site but I have only hit 1,000 score in a few games that are easy, and instead of fucking around and doing what you folks want prevented I choose to not just make shitty guides or make lousy posts.

there have been a few guides that have really helped me and there has been a few that haven't, if there is a post about it in the feedback section, take it as feedback. I feel like I've got nothing but defensive posts in response to my logical thought.

Clipse 2
12-17-2007, 11:30 PM
what sense does that make? Isn't this thread about how bad the guides are? You are basically saying that a guide that is posted that is not helpful at all to users is better then a guide that is not submitted? That does not resolve the issue.
I didn't attack the quality of ALL guides but did take note at a few of the newer games at the time. My issue was that when a hyped game such as Halo 3, Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, etc. its almost a given that there would be several people jump at the bit to get THEIR guide thread started as soon as possible. Then they'll half ass it as if they're posting a "For Sale" ad in a newspaper and being charged by the number of words total. I never said we didn't have great guides already on the site. All that can be found linked to the game pages are quality, but I also question where people look first; game pages from the main site or the forums.

There are some great guides on the site and there are some that could use some more help. It's just a matter of how much work a guide maker is willing to put into it.


*Edit: I forgot to mention I'm a Tron in '08 supporter. ;)

Legend Has It 1
12-17-2007, 11:34 PM
I totally agree with you that there are definitly some major guides out there that were created, but I have beef with a few of them, and for Tron and PerpetualHeaven I don't think my first post was bitching whatsoever. If that's the way you took it then whatever, but I'm a grown man, I realize most of the users here are young and you feel the need to belittle them with words, but it really means nothing to me.

narcolepticshee
12-18-2007, 12:23 PM
I feel that if you don't submit you're guide until you're completely finished with it then:

a) Someone else will start a guide then you (the mods) will be swarmed with guides on the same game and have to decided which one to use/spend time chopping them up and fitting them together
b) You (the guide writer) won't be able to get help from the community, which is what this site is all about. Members of the community helping other members of the community.


I personally feel that the current system is good. One person starts writing a guide then others contribute if they feel they can add something. The only thing we need to change (i feel) is the moderation of these guides, people checking up to see if they're good.

If you see something that's wrong/you can help - message mod and then it will be fixed - problem solved

Peace

Tron
12-18-2007, 02:10 PM
i am also a grown man. i am not running for anything in particular, but life itself.. You were complaining about the quality of guides as seen in Exibit A: I think most of the guides are pretty weak

i take offense to that because these guys put some time and effort to try to help others out...i also take offense because i spend a good deal of time making the information that is submitted widely available. Maybe we got off on the wrong foot.. i think there is some value in having information out there as long as its not wrong... i think we all can respect that.

Healthcare for the Kids
08 means Tron and Clipse!


Your voice, your vote

Legend Has It 1
12-18-2007, 08:17 PM
I went a little far by saying "most" there are some that I've wanted to use but they don't go into enough detail to help me, and there are others that are jampacked and written very good, I'm done looking in this thread and hope to see you in another thread.

P.s. I'm voting for Eric B.

AlphaXGamerXDad
12-19-2007, 09:39 AM
As a noob to this site, I hope I'm allowed to throw my two cents in because I haven't found a XBOX community this great and definitely would like to start an active role. I would like to add, however, that this thread is starting to get a lil negative and is resembling some other sites that I prefer not to frequent. We all love the same system and strive for the same achievements, but throw down like its a Mac vs. PC battle. I did have some questions though so lets get to those.
1- What's the public opinion on writing guides for games that might not be relevant anymore? I ask because I'm about to hit 1000 for Just Cause and when I looked at the guide for it, it wasn't very helpful.(ex: there are these stupid blanking-blank tanks that killed me numerous times but the guide just says to stay clear of em) Now, I think Perpetual claimed to be the author in post #45 of this thread and even admitted it wasn't all that good. But will enough people play this game still to justify a rewrite. The game is easy, but I figured out a few things that would have helped me shave a few hours of gameplay off, and with all the new great games out that is a huge plus for this single dad.
2- If you do write a guide but had trouble yourself on a section or two, how do you handle that? The f-ing tanks from question 1 come to mind, because I don't know if what I did was that useful, it only seemed to stop the bleeding. Noting that a certain achievement could use a second opinion seems reasonable but we seem split on wether or not this should be done.
Post is getting lengthy so let me finish with this. I'm in no way bad-mouthing Perpetual or this site, and even whore you chaps out in my bio on Live. I just want to get involved and figured a decent guide might be a good start. Thanks, and sorry so long.

jackanape
12-19-2007, 03:12 PM
I went a little far by saying "most" there are some that I've wanted to use but they don't go into enough detail to help me, and there are others that are jampacked and written very good, I'm done looking in this thread and hope to see you in another thread.

P.s. I'm voting for Eric B.

I think people have been far too harsh on this guy, he was just saying that the guides he'd experienced hadn't been that good and that may be his experience. I will admit that saying 'most of the guides are pretty weak' is a gross exaggeration and not that constructive but I'm sure no offense was intended. Frankly I spent nearly 6 hours typing a massive CSI guide - that game can be completed with no help frankly, but I thought I'd take the time to make it EVEN easier for everyone. So coming out and claiming guides are weak is a slap in the face to people like me who've put the time in.

On the other side of the coin, if a guide isn't up to scratch then PM a Mod about that specific guide and maybe someone can be arranged to update it. Just saying they are rubbish is helping no one, you could even see which members have completed a certain game and PM them too if you are stuck on a certain part. Don't be afraid to ask for help as I've done it before (Webb was no help at all, but at least he got back to me ha ha ;)).

Also, if you think you can improve a guide, even an old one, then do it. Just change the areas you feel need some work and put it in the submit forum with an explanation of what you've done. It will then be added to the main guide to help out others.

Peace out people and thanks for reading.

P.S Vote Tron.

Tron
12-19-2007, 05:32 PM
i want to know who this Eric B is and what his opinions on the Annexation of Puerto Rico are.

WE MAKE THE CHICKS SHAKE THEIR HIPS

IN 08, Vote for Tron and Clipse

*kisses baby*

PS. Big Game Hunter's ach guide is one of the first that are getting an Extreme Home Makerover. Thanks to David Creech, Vonreid (unknowingly mind you) and teh tron.

Webb
12-19-2007, 07:25 PM
(Webb was no help at all, but at least he got back to me ha ha ;))

HEY!! You asked me about a game I played 8 months ago :biglaugh :p

jackanape
12-20-2007, 01:00 PM
HEY!! You asked me about a game I played 8 months ago :biglaugh :p

AND? I would assume it was still sitting in your mind as fresh as a daisy even a mere 8 months later. I had heard you had all encompassing god like powers - truly I've been misled.

Just to let you know - I solved my own question anyway and I appreciate you getting back to me.

Sorry this is off topic but you've gotta stand up to the admins or they'll grind you down. :)

Shinobi273
12-20-2007, 05:11 PM
Sorry this is off topic but you've gotta stand up to the admins or they'll grind you down. :)

Actually, "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down".

Pieface
12-21-2007, 07:07 PM
Just a quick thing to say, but I slightly agree. I saw you Pro Evo 8 guide the quality isn't brilliant.

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/guide.php?gameID=376

On all the Ligue ones it says play through 19 games in a season as Barca, Each time! Just a small thing to say.

Webb
12-22-2007, 01:10 PM
Just a quick thing to say, but I slightly agree. I saw you Pro Evo 8 guide the quality isn't brilliant.

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/guide.php?gameID=376

On all the Ligue ones it says play through 19 games in a season as Barca, Each time! Just a small thing to say.

I fixed the beat all teams achievements but I disagree about the guide. There isn't too much to the game and its achievements.

miiiguel
02-04-2008, 04:37 PM
I don't want to bump this thread, but I followed a Pant's link from LCA Scene It guide thread. Just wanted to drop my two cents, on this discussion.
This site has helped me greatly, but lately I must say, quality has declined - maybe 360's demographic expanded, don't know... don't realy know the issues. But some guides are very childish, and like many said usualy the high-profile games tend to get the worse guides (it does seem that ppl want to associate their name to that hype), while lower-key games tend to get good/great guides (Bullet Witch, have you seen it?).
Add to this the fact that this site is in fact popular, so hyped game + popular site = hard to keep the standards.
Suffice to say, lately I've been a Prima games guide regular consumer. Please, don't tell me that I'm whining, and doing nothing, I usually give tips on threads every now and then, but most often they are aknowldge by some thread goers but guides are not updated. I guess their (some/few :) ) authors just want to have it done, have their name printed and get away from it.

Anyway, completly off-topic, but since we were talking about PES08 guide, it should mention that the "FK Goal" must be the wining goal (I've said it in the foruns, no one cared).

PerpetualHeaven
02-04-2008, 04:50 PM
We have a guide team now and we've fixed many guides. We have to date 21 guides updated and edited. Slow process but do not worry. We'll eventually have everything fixed up.

miiiguel
02-04-2008, 05:22 PM
I'm glad to hear that, and knowing the passionate nature of this site's admin's/mod's I've no doubt, awesomeness will be back, sooner than later.

neeker75
03-24-2008, 02:42 PM
Apologies for digging up a one-month old thread, but I just read through it and felt compelled to voice my opinion.

I'm new to this site (in terms of posting in the forums), but I've been using it regularly before actually posting, and I've to agree with the majority of the points stated by the topic starter.

I don't know what's with some guides, but stating the obvious is not a guide. It's like, if the achievement says that you need to kill 250 enemies with a shotgun, and your "guide" explains that "just kill 250 enemies with shotgun", what's the point? As a user, I'd like to know where can I find a shotgun to do the job, or how much does it cost, or is there any respawn point for me to do it quickly, for example. I don't need anyone to tell me how to eat, but I'd appreciate recommendations of where would be a nice place to dine.

Nevertheless, sometimes, even when you do your best, some people still think that it's not enough. I've never written a guide for this site (which I feel is still the best achievement site now), but I've written my fair share of guides for another site. I always try to be detailed. If the achievement says "complete mission 1", I'll try to explain what are the major events in mission 1. If there's a boss involved, I'll explain how to defeat the boss. But there are some people who're simply so spood-fed that they basically demand that you satisfy their every need. For example, I wrote a Lost guide, and painstakingly explained how to get the blast door maps photos (which option to use on the computer, which door to open at which time, which door to leave, turn to which direction to find the map...). I don't know how I can be more detailed, but I received an email saying that my instructions are "useless". I don't feel insulted, just a little disappointed, and maybe pissed.

I wouldn't say that guide writers (who do it for free, and maybe rely on some donations once in a while) don't owe users anything - they owe users a good guide, for one. But there must be a limit on how far a writer can go. Maybe I'm just not good enough to explain that blast door maps thing, but calling me useless even after I tried my best? Something is very wrong with some users too, I think.

Marx0r
03-27-2008, 12:05 PM
Well put. The problem is, the internet tends to make people retarded. You could physically do the achievement for them and they'd still complain that you didn't do it fast enough. (Account trading references unintended)

If you write the best guide ever, you're still going to have one person who has a problem, simply because they were dropped on the head or their mommy didn't love them enough. But when the guide is just a rewording of the description, you're going to get a lot more people telling you it's useless.

Since this thread was made, the site introduced a Guide Team, who approves and edits all guides before they get on the site. I'm on it, and, like my colleagues, I got on the team because the staff recognized me as an above-average guide writer. If we say a guide is useless, it is. If some guy who joined the site yesterday says the same, well, he's probably talking out of his ass.

Oh, and we don't get donations. All the money that gets donated to the site goes right back into server costs and the like. Not that I would object if someone wanted to put money in my paypal account. ;)