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mjda
01-01-2008, 06:14 PM
So today I was browsing around the site and on the forums I saw a few complete walkthroughs on some game forums. No big deal. I'm sure they've existed for a while. Then I looked at a game guide and I saw this:

http://www.mjdastudios.com/images/x360a_game_header.gif

I immediately noticed that something was missing. Where is the "Walkthrough" link? I thought to myself, I can't believe there isn't a section on this site dedicated to complete walkthroughs. This may have been discussed before, but this time I actually searched for it, and found nothing. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist because I suck at searching for anything. I propose that one be added. This would also give the chance for people to get yet another x360a award. Have awards for submitting complete walkthroughs like you have for achievement guides.

Anyways, there's my idea. What does everyone else think?

VI JimJam
01-01-2008, 06:15 PM
Sounds like a good idea to me.

Minty
01-01-2008, 06:20 PM
If people write them, we will use them. Bear in mind theres 300+ games, and some of them (like Oblivion, Assassins Creed, Mass Effect) would require a 30,000 word guide minimum probably.

So basically, its a shed load of work, and when most people get eBooks of the official guides, it may not be the most constructive use of time...

Sanction
01-01-2008, 06:23 PM
A walkthrough is a good idea, but it would take a very long time lol.

There is a walkthrough site that Gamespot has though, www.gamefaqs.com.

mjda
01-01-2008, 06:23 PM
I didn't mean that we start writing walkthroughs for every game. I just think it needs to be a little easier to find the ones that do exist. Some people will come to this site looking for a walkthrough and will never go to the forums. If the walkthroughs were written in their own page likes some of the achievement guides, I just think they would be easier to find, better indexed in search engines, and just used more in general.

The Pants Party
01-01-2008, 06:35 PM
Walkthroughs are better linked from the achievement guide than posted right to the main site. Most of the time they are outside sources anyway. If anyone wants to write their own complete walkthrough for the site, post it up in the game's forum and I'm sure it will get a sticky.

Walkthroughs take great dedication, and it is a pain to even get quality achievement guides out of some people, let alone a complete walkthrough.

mjda
01-01-2008, 06:42 PM
Fair enough. I just thought I'd make the recommendation. Thanks for your replies.

Ingles
01-03-2008, 08:59 AM
Walkthroughs are better linked from the achievement guide than posted right to the main site. Most of the time they are outside sources anyway. If anyone wants to write their own complete walkthrough for the site, post it up in the game's forum and I'm sure it will get a sticky.

Walkthroughs take great dedication, and it is a pain to even get quality achievement guides out of some people, let alone a complete walkthrough.

I couldn't agree more with you about the quality of achievement guides. Achievement guides are meant to help gamers, even a non-gamer be able to understand how to get ("achieve") a certain achievement. Perhaps if the content of achievement guides were reviewed more in depth before giving out awards for them, then the quality of them may get better.

Walkthroughs do take a lot of time to write, especially a good one. One idea might be to just have an entirely seperate link on the website just for random walkthroughs that members have submitted, so that those people who are not members will still be able to view them like mjda (http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/member.php?u=47829) was saying. It's easily possible. Now it may be a small list, but it'd still be a list that would be easy to access by all who are interested. We could do a poll to see what the majority of the members think?

HoodMod
01-03-2008, 09:29 AM
So today I was browsing around the site and on the forums I saw a few complete walkthroughs on some game forums. No big deal. I'm sure they've existed for a while. Then I looked at a game guide and I saw this:

http://www.mjdastudios.com/images/x360a_game_header.gif

I immediately noticed that something was missing. Where is the "Walkthrough" link? I thought to myself, I can't believe there isn't a section on this site dedicated to complete walkthroughs. This may have been discussed before, but this time I actually searched for it, and found nothing. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist because I suck at searching for anything. I propose that one be added. This would also give the chance for people to get yet another x360a award. Have awards for submitting complete walkthroughs like you have for achievement guides.

Anyways, there's my idea. What does everyone else think?

The site isn't really dedicated to walkthroughs, more how to play the game to get all the achievements. You can find everything on Gamefaq anyway.

n1n3t33nd3lta
01-03-2008, 11:04 AM
I can see where both of you are coming from, but I myself prefer a one-stop-shop. If we had walkthroughs on this site for quite a few games, or even the game that I'm looking for, I'm gonna stay here and use it, not look at gamefaqs.com. But then again, Minty is right, not everyone is going to walk to type up a walkthrough, because they are very time consuming, especially the good ones. Just my two cents worth, though.

Marx0r
01-03-2008, 09:54 PM
Also, if you're having problems in a specific section, all you need to do is search the forums.. it's probably been asked and answered already.

mjda
01-03-2008, 10:06 PM
Also, if you're having problems in a specific section, all you need to do is search the forums.. it's probably been asked and answered already.

But my point is that not all people are willing or would want to look around the forums. For some people forums are extremely hard to search to find what you're looking for, which simply means they go someplace else to look for their information. Understandably this is an achievement site and not a walkthrough site, but walkthroughs can be a very vital part of some people's road to an achievement. How many achievement guides on this site point to external walkthroughs? I just thought it might be better, for x360a, if those walkthrough links pointed to their own site rather than someone else's.

I understand both sides of this argument, but honestly, I don't see how x360a's administrators wouldn't want to add something that should be relatively easy to add that will help keep people on this site rather than sending them somewhere else for what they're looking for.

Minty
01-03-2008, 10:19 PM
Didnt say we didnt want to add it..... but to implement it on the frontpage it needs to be done for the large majority of games, and each game is going to vary from say 15-100k words - with 300 + games thats a hella lot to do.

Plus like Pants said, we have problems getting people to write decent achievement guides at times, let alone a major doc like that

mjda
01-03-2008, 10:26 PM
Yeah, I understand what you mean. I was just thinking of ways to make the current walkthroughs easier accessible for the site's users.

Wow, with this post I moved up to "Peon". I feel so totally special now!

Cyrex
01-04-2008, 01:53 AM
while what is a good idea though is to at least have a link in the achievement guide that goes up on the main site to the walkthrough that was written on the forums. I know that if people really want to take the time to do it and write a walkthrough and post it up in the Game forum, if it is well written then it will most likely get stickied and you'll get the A+ thread award, thats about all though, it is much too hard to keep up with the reviews and achievement guides let alone have a walkthrough also.

mjda
01-04-2008, 02:01 AM
while what is a good idea though is to at least have a link in the achievement guide that goes up on the main site to the walkthrough that was written on the forums. I know that if people really want to take the time to do it and write a walkthrough and post it up in the Game forum, if it is well written then it will most likely get stickied and you'll get the A+ thread award, thats about all though, it is much too hard to keep up with the reviews and achievement guides let alone have a walkthrough also.

If you're going to do that you might as well just make a separate page where you can copy/paste the data into another db, if it's a good walkthrough, and have it displayed on a "Walkthrough Page", which is exactly what I meant with my idea. Then the script that displays the links in the image in my original thread would simply point to that page if it exists. If a walkthrough doesn't exist, it will be grayed out like "Cheats" is in my example.

Ingles
01-10-2008, 04:59 AM
Something that would be tedious but also possible, would be to go to GameFAQs and for the walkthroughs that are really great, get the author's permission to host it from this website as well. In doing this, we're not rewritting a ton of walkthroughs that have already been written, especially for games that would take a gazillion words to write a decent walkthrough for. Also, in the beginning of the walkthroughs as people click on them from different sites, they'll see the other places that it is hosted and bah bamm... they see www.x360a.org - Xbox360Achievements.org right up there with the rest, so more traffic for us as well. ;)

mjda
01-10-2008, 05:06 AM
While I would be willing to contact some of the authors of those walkthroughs, I really doubt very many other people would. I do think some of those people would allow us to post the walkthrough here, but it's getting hold of those guys that would be the pain.

Ingles
01-10-2008, 05:09 AM
While I would be willing to contact some of the authors of those walkthroughs, I really doubt very many other people would. I do think some of those people would allow us to post the walkthrough here, but it's getting hold of those guys that would be the pain.

Oh of course, there's not many people going to be willing to go and contact all of the authors, but I'm saying if we split them up and for those people who are willing (including myself) to contact a few authors and see what they say. Still, we're looking at close to 300 games but like I said, it could be done if enough people were committed to it.

Bodangles
01-10-2008, 05:12 AM
I can see where both of you are coming from, but I myself prefer a one-stop-shop. If we had walkthroughs on this site for quite a few games, or even the game that I'm looking for, I'm gonna stay here and use it, not look at gamefaqs.com. But then again, Minty is right, not everyone is going to walk to type up a walkthrough, because they are very time consuming, especially the good ones. Just my two cents worth, though.

n1n3t33n! king of teh walkfru! you too pants; i didn't forget :) i really just wanted to ask why we still have the cheats section. i'd say we could get more something on there than we do cheats. they are hella time consuming. i wrote one before, but gave up once i got on this site. i mean competing against bloodthirsty achievement whores isn't exactly a picnic. i still stand by the video achievement guides if people who had the technology would only use it! that is all.

EDIT- as it took me 30 minutes to post one thing, i agree that hosting those guides would be great. my problem isn't contacting the author so much as finding a place to put it, i.e- a pop-up window?

newbsicle
01-10-2008, 05:35 AM
Gamefaqs.com is where you go if you want a walkthrough. If we have permission to link a guide/walkthrough maybe we could add this as part of the site.

mjda
01-10-2008, 05:35 AM
my problem isn't contacting the author so much as finding a place to put it, i.e- a pop-up window?

Putting what, the walkthroughs? They should have their own page, just like the good guides do.

Instead of http://www.xbox360achievements.org/guide.php?gameID=277,the link would be http://www.xbox360achievements.org/walkthrough.php?gameID=277.

The only thing different about the 2 pages would be the content under the header and between the sidebars. I would also only add those type of pages for the walkthroughs that are good. Some walkthroughs I've seen are just pathetic, and wouldn't be worth reading.

Minty
01-10-2008, 05:43 AM
We arent talking about linking to other sites here - if it was done it would be x360a guides.

Linking to another site completly defeats the object

mjda
01-10-2008, 05:44 AM
Yeah, that's what I mean. If we got permission from the authors of some of the walkthroughs, we could have them posted here just like on gamefaq. I just believe it's better, from a site owner point of view, if you have everything people are looking for within your niche on your site. Think about all the people who look up walkthroughs and never even know x360a exists. Putting walkthroughs up might help some of those people find us instead of gamefaq.

EDIT: I also think the more walkthroughs you have, the more you'll receive. The authors of these want people to read them. If they know they are getting several hundred reads a month here, they'll post it here. It's obvious someone is writing these things. Why not take advantage of it?

Bodangles
01-10-2008, 05:47 AM
Putting what, the walkthroughs? They should have their own page, just like the good guides do.

Instead of http://www.xbox360achievements.org/guide.php?gameID=277,the link would be http://www.xbox360achievements.org/walkthrough.php?gameID=277.

The only thing different about the 2 pages would be the content under the header and between the sidebars. I would also only add those type of pages for the walkthroughs that are good. Some walkthroughs I've seen are just pathetic, and wouldn't be worth reading.

ha that's easy to say, but like minty said, walkthroughs are anywhere from 30K to 100K long. some longer. that's extreme forum clutter when you have 300 or so of them. the character limit is 10,000 long. if we could get the walkthrough created by the original author and keep it in notepad forum, as they usually are, then just have a link that opens it up, we would decrease or virtually eliminate the potential forum problems.

EDIT2- forgive me? tehee mmk i'd write a walkthrough but i think most experienced members know that if we start advocating walkthroughs, people are gonna post "Walkthru NOT COMPLETE YET 1ST LVL HELP ME!11! WIT IT". riskay.

Minty
01-10-2008, 05:48 AM
Theres no point in having guides up that are direct copies from GameFAQs, thats not how we built the site.

If its being done, its original guides.

mjda
01-10-2008, 05:53 AM
Theres no point in having guides up that are direct copies from GameFAQs, thats not how we built the site.

If its being done, its original guides.

It's going to be hard to get those when they aren't accepted anywhere besides in the forums. Nobody wants to post their entire walkthrough in the forums, and even if they did, they'll probably have to break it down into several parts. Maybe make a post saying you're going to experiment with accepting some walkthroughs, and have the authors email them to walkthrough [a] x360a.com or something? I mean, even if it fails, it's worth giving a try. Anything that will draw in more members is at least worth trying out, and I really believe with the right effort, this could work. I also believe if it did work, it would bring tons more members to the site.

Minty
01-10-2008, 05:56 AM
just email them to admin[a]x 3 6 O . 0 r g

If we get a decent amount we will start properly.

mjda
01-10-2008, 06:00 AM
Any chance we could get you to make a post in the announcements or somewhere saying that you're going to give this a try? It would work better if this were something official instead of just me making a post telling everyone to email their walkthroughs to you. More then likely everyone would just ignore me. Either that or you would have an inbox full of crap. Now you, on the other hand, people will listen to.

SoaringEagle
01-11-2008, 12:19 AM
nice idea man, but i did read it somewhere, imagine a mass effect guide, thats like the lord of the rings trilogy novels. :(

mjda
01-11-2008, 01:27 AM
nice idea man, but i did read it somewhere, imagine a mass effect guide, thats like the lord of the rings trilogy novels. :(

Regardless of how long they may be, the fact still remains that 1) people do write them, and 2) people do read them.

Asariel
07-10-2009, 05:01 PM
I was going to post something to this effect but it seems to have already been gone over, so sorry for dragging up on older thread. I've often wondered why the site didn't have a walkthrough section, especially with a lot of guides linking to outside sources for them, it always seemed to hold the site back from being a one-stop-shop in my view so glad to have that answered.

Admittedly having such a section/tab for every game on the site without it being populated isn't going to look to great/professional and the format would need to be considered (I feel they have to be in a downloadable file ala gamefaqs or be split into several pages as most are massive). The 10,000 character limit per post is also a big issue when it comes to the forums meaning a guide would be a large number of posts long. (I'd imagine the sticky post would be just an intro and a link to a file/site page as well as posts with any maps/images/videos etc associated with it) Then there's also an issue of a "Walkthrough Team" as even evaluating how good a walkthrough is takes a great deal of time in a lot of cases (this when not even considering detecting plagarism, another big issue), and you certainly need to have the game (whereas the quality of some achievement guides and Roadmaps can be judged pretty well without one)

However, in my view, it seems like the natural progression from the Roadmaps and Achievement guides, as well as all the various specific dedicated stickies. Going from a quick game overview (the Roapmap being the equivalent to the introduction of a full walkthrough) and brief description of how to obtain each achievement to a detailed step by step guide. The bottom line is I don't think there should be a need to direct people away from the site.

I would also say that just submitting them and seeing if enough arrive isn't likely to generate too much interest(indeed it apparently didn't), there would need to be a firm push in the direction with site pages, forum badges and the like. The "official" stamp would do a lot for this in my opinion. It would probably be best to keep it forum based initially, have a drive to get the games lists well populated with them, until enough are complete to avoid making the site look like it has a lot "missing". Roadmaps seem to have been taken up across the board and been generated for most games now in a similar fashion.

A walkthrough itself is a massive undertaking as has already been noted, even for a reasonably small game, but to turn the gamefaqs arguement around, yes they have plenty but people do write them and this site has, well, a lot of dedicated people who could do the same. (some even do)

Just thought I'd bring this up anyway, I'm working on a Walkthrough for a game myself at the moment once the Achievement guide is done (a lot of the time I've had to limit the guide detail to avoid making it into a walkthrough itself) but have no interest in submitting it to gamefaqs, IGN or the like as this (along with TA) is the only site I tend to use a great deal.

NFaMuS one
07-10-2009, 05:21 PM
I for one love to just sit down, play a game and write walkthrough or an achievement guide to it. As has been said throughout this thread, it is a huge undertaking, but feasable. I actually have started a walkthrough for couple of games, however I've been side tracked due to the birth of my daughter, but it's still in the works and I still plan to post it in the forums.

I caught criticism about my achievement guide for Comix Zone. Being told that I made it seem like I was saying everyone is an "idiot." Fact is, the more thorough you are, the less questions people have.

I agree that it would be a good addition to the site, and make it even more of a one stop shop for X-Box 360. And I agree with Minty too, that linking outside the site pretty much defeats the purpose. Also, I do agree that some achievement guides are written without reading the thread dedicated to explain how they're written, which to me is mind boggling. :p

Needless to say, you have my vote for this, as well as my dedication to write a quality walkthrough and/or achievement guide. ;)

Fizzmatix
07-10-2009, 08:55 PM
I really like the idea of a whole walkthrough. It may take forever for 1 person to write but maybe if it was a collaboration with a few users it would work really well. Seems like a cool idea if anyone is interested i'd be happy to participate with images and explanations etc but it really depends if anyone really does go through with writing a full walkthrough.

dakisbac
07-11-2009, 12:21 PM
I think that right now one of the reasons that people aren't writing whole walkthroughs is that because there is no main tab dedicated to it. Which makes no sense because we have a cheats tab, which is empty for most games.

As it's been said, lots of people, visitors especially, aren't going to look through the forums for a walkthrough so some people aren't going to feel it's worth their time if it's not going to get many views. Tossing in an award of course offers extra incentives.

The main issue with doing so is that, like roadmaps, we have a LOT of older games that also need them, except that, unlike roadmaps, they are a lot longer which makes it harder. Plus we'd also need either a separate team for walkthroughs specifically or to add quite a few members to the current guide team.

As for quality, for this to be feasible we'd need real guides. Quite a few achievement guides on this site are half-assed, which is no good if that will also apply to walkthroughs that are, by definition, thorough.

I'd like to see this implememented of course, but it will take a lot of work. And changes to the way things are currently done is moreorless a necessity.

kaleido42
07-11-2009, 09:54 PM
I think that right now one of the reasons that people aren't writing whole walkthroughs is that because there is no main tab dedicated to it. Which makes no sense because we have a cheats tab, which is empty for most games.

As it's been said, lots of people, visitors especially, aren't going to look through the forums for a walkthrough so some people aren't going to feel it's worth their time if it's not going to get many views. Tossing in an award of course offers extra incentives.

The main issue with doing so is that, like roadmaps, we have a LOT of older games that also need them, except that, unlike roadmaps, they are a lot longer which makes it harder. Plus we'd also need either a separate team for walkthroughs specifically or to add quite a few members to the current guide team.

As for quality, for this to be feasible we'd need real guides. Quite a few achievement guides on this site are half-assed, which is no good if that will also apply to walkthroughs that are, by definition, thorough.

I'd like to see this implememented of course, but it will take a lot of work. And changes to the way things are currently done is moreorless a necessity.

I quite agree. I for one would definitely have a couple games I'd be willing to help make walkthroughs for (of course I need to finish those roadmaps I said I'd do, don't worry I'm working on them again now:p). What I think we need is a more strict way to make sure that the right people are working on these. As I see it there are two groups. One group actually wants to improve the site, make good stuff for it, etc. The other group just wants those awards. I think we need some way to make sure that we keep the right people working on all of this and some way to restrict that second group from making poor contributions. Well thats my rant, only thing I want to know now is way someone resurrected a thread that was a year and a half old :p.

Jappe XBA
07-12-2009, 09:24 AM
If anyone wants to write their own complete walkthrough for the site, post it up in the game's forum and I'm sure it will get a sticky.

Do I get a sticky if I write a walkthrough for Avatar: TBE? :)

kaleido42
07-12-2009, 05:15 PM
Do I get a sticky if I write a walkthrough for Avatar: TBE? :)

Most likely. Remember that this would be a full walkthrough, not just for achievements. That means that you would be covering every angle of the game from beginning to end. Have fun :p.

zeppelin315
07-12-2009, 06:03 PM
I would like to see more in depth walk through, most of the walkthroughs that i seen were confusing and i could not even use them we should just use other web sites with better walkthroughs and post the link.