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View Full Version : What the new setlist reveals about DLC


artvandel4y
07-17-2008, 06:24 AM
First thing everyone noticed was ACDC. I think a back in black album download is in the works.

Guns 'n' Roses and Rage Against the Machine are both there despite their guitarists being playable characters in Guitar Hero. It goes to show that they really don't do much exclusivity with artists (other than aerosmith), that a song could be in a game and then a car commercial or a counterpart game.

The only other album they promised and haven't delivered on was Nirvana's Nevermind. On the setlist is a track from that album "Drain You", in my opinion about the 6th best song on that album (showing how good of an album it was) and it makes me doubt that we'll see Nevermind, especially after getting alt rock from the same era with the Pixies.

Harmonix has promised to deliver new songs at an accelerated rate, and knowing that they transfer over is nice, but what theories do you all have about this, knowing what we know now

Dex
07-17-2008, 12:49 PM
Um... wow. Where do I begin?

> The first thing I noticed was NOT AC/DC.
I don't think think that means that a full AC/DC album is in the works... that's quite a stretch.
It might mean more AC/DC, sure... but I think you might be reaching a little expecting a full album based on 1 song.

> GnR and RATM were never exclusive for GH... the only band that has signed to be just on GH games is Aerosmith (who cares), which is why HMX say that "most RB1 songs will be transferable to RB2".
Chances are that Train Kept A Rollin' won't be available.

> Nevermind is still planned, it's even been revealed in a leaked setlist a few months ago. I think HMX is just waiting until RB2 comes out before releasing it, giving potential buyers another reason to pick up the new game.
The Pixies already had 1 song from Doolittle on RB1, so their album was every track EXCEPT that one song. Why couldn't Nevermind be released MINUS "Drain You"?
Just because 1 song is on the game disk, that's no indication that a full album won't show up eventually.

I don't even know how to comment on your last paragraph, since it doesn't really make sense to me.

Harmonix has promised to deliver new songs at an accelerated rate, and knowing that they transfer over is nice, but what theories do you all have about this, knowing what we know nowHarmonix has promised to deliver new songs. And they have delivered them.

At an accelerated rate. Ok... and they have. At least 3 a week.

Knowing that they transfer over is nice blah blah blah. WHAT? What do we know now? A list of 80+ songs, thats it. Stop reading into it.

silentbob0
07-17-2008, 01:04 PM
I can't see the full Nevermind album coming out for RB 1 or 2 because there are songs in the album which don't really use drums, such as Polly or Something in the Way. The most likely will just be a Nirvana pack with the best songs suited for Rock Band.

RiteNowRiteNow
07-17-2008, 10:18 PM
First thing everyone noticed was ACDC. I think a back in black album download is in the works.

Guns 'n' Roses and Rage Against the Machine are both there despite their guitarists being playable characters in Guitar Hero. It goes to show that they really don't do much exclusivity with artists (other than aerosmith), that a song could be in a game and then a car commercial or a counterpart game.

The only other album they promised and haven't delivered on was Nirvana's Nevermind. On the setlist is a track from that album "Drain You", in my opinion about the 6th best song on that album (showing how good of an album it was) and it makes me doubt that we'll see Nevermind, especially after getting alt rock from the same era with the Pixies.

Harmonix has promised to deliver new songs at an accelerated rate, and knowing that they transfer over is nice, but what theories do you all have about this, knowing what we know now

I'm with Dex on this one.

Yes, it's absolutely awesome that AC/DC is finally included in the Rock Video Game Revolution. Does it open the door for future DLC? Absolutely. Back in Black? That'd be sweet since it's one of the best rock albums ever, but I agree with Dex that you're reading into that one a bit much. I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see it, but I'm sure AC/DC would like to put a song pack out and see how it sells before jumping in with both feet on a full-album release. And they do have the catalog to release a 3-song, non-BiB pack, have it sell well and then agree to release BiB.

Well, Guns 'n Roses are somewhat like Van Halen. The members of their "classic" lineups rarely agree on anything, except when the situation calls for royalty checks. I'm sure Axl got the lion's share of the money that came from "Welcome to the Jungle" (read: all of it) while Matt Sorum, Duff and Slash's cut came from the inclusion of Velvet Revolver's Track Pack as well as Slash's appearance in the game and commercial.

As far as Nevermind goes, keep in mind that they wanted to release all of Boston's first album, but couldn't because they couldn't find the master to "Can I Take You Home Tonight". A similar story goes for The Who's "Who's Next"; they couldn't get their hands on all the music, so they released a "best of" in lieu of the album. Metallica's "Black" album was also an early entry for album DLC, but has since dissipated. I'm guessing that it has something to do with Metallica's negotiation with Activision, which includes exclusivicity since Metallica is now getting their own game, and the first single which was supposed to be released to Rock Band first is now heading to Guitar Hero in the exact same manner (DLC availability day and date with the album itself) that it was supposed to be released on Rock Band (Keep in mind that Motley Crue was the first band to release a new single on Rock Band before an album's release...Metallica may have been peeved by that).

I don't believe an album's popularity, as much as it's playability is the main reason for it to be a candidate for DLC. I'm sure most would agree with me that Judas Priest's "British Steel" is far better and more popular album than "Screaming For Vengeance". Although, if it had happened, I can't disagree with Boston's debut album (the best selling debut album of all time, I might add).

And as far as Harmonix's ability to deliver DLC? They've delivered DLC like nobody ever has, and at this point I would argue, ever will. You'd have to go back to May 13th to find a week where Harmonix "only" delivered 3 songs as DLC. Even the week that the Pixies album was released, they also released a Weezer track pack. Since that week in May, they've AVERAGED 7 songs per week. I would submit to you, that they have in fact accelerated their rate of DLC.

The transfer from RB1 to RB2 is going to be the largest selling point in the GH vs RB battle. Having in the neighborhood of 500 songs by the end of calender 2008 is quite an axe to wield versus Guitar Hero. It's an exciting point for those of us who have been playing RB1, and it's a GIGANTIC selling point for those who haven't played RB1 yet (To be able to purchase RB2 and get all the RB1 songs as well).

I'm sorry for the length of this post. This is pretty much the only 360 game I play now, so I'm balls deep in each development.

edd__
07-18-2008, 12:11 AM
The OP... jesus... i just don't know what to say. You're arrogance and ignorance knows no boundaries.

I'm not sure if i need to add much to what's been said.
I'd hate it if there was exclusivity, if there was definite GH band and RB bands. Granted, many of the GH3 bands i couldn't care less about, but it'd be shit if a band was tied down in contracts to their exclusivity. I'm super happy that RATM are even allowing another song to be on these games, totally syked about it. Am a big fan, and it always surprises me when they're more lenient and commercial like this, considering that they rarely let their live shows be filmed, esp at festivals.


Boston's self-titled album is not the best selling debut. It is in the US, but worldwide (thus earning the title "of all time") there are a number that outdo it. Struggling to remember them, other than Alanis Morissette's Jagged Little Pill and Ace of Base's debut, but i did at one point know a bunch of lists like that; best-selling albums ever, best selling debuts, best selling posthumous albums, &c.
Yes im a loser.

TwistedFate
07-18-2008, 12:54 AM
Struggling to remember them, other than Alanis Morissette's Jagged Little Pill and Ace of Base's debut,

If you want to talk worldwide, and it appears you do, Jagged Little Pill is not her debut album. She released two before that one as a teen in Canada.

Since the RIAA only looks at American releases, JLP is considered her debut here and ties with Boston at 17 million.

edd__
07-18-2008, 10:41 AM
Oh! I didn't know she'd released anything before, thought that was it. Cool, learn something new an' all that

RiteNowRiteNow
07-18-2008, 01:42 PM
I thought that Guns 'n Roses held the American debut album record at 22 million for "Appetite for Destruction" ?

edd__
07-18-2008, 02:13 PM
I'm getting far too confused now ;D

TwistedFate
07-18-2008, 02:18 PM
I thought that Guns 'n Roses held the American debut album record at 22 million for "Appetite for Destruction" ?

Worldwide 28 million. It's only the 4th best in America.

artvandel4y
07-21-2008, 08:38 PM
Yeah, I don't understand the details of the music industry. I didn't know about Boston and The Who having the lists changed because of studio recordings. I guess it makes sense, that it is all about money. I guess I would prefer a 'best of' to an individual album, as would most people. We wouldn't have gotten "my generation" "eminence front" "behind blue eyes" or other awesome who tracks if they had just released who's next. We are the true winners of this arms race with guitar hero.

RiteNowRiteNow
07-22-2008, 12:17 AM
The full album idea is a good one, but they gotta get the right albums.

For the time being, I'm happy with the miscellaneous track packs that feature various artists. Although my only complaint would be to feature the prominent songs from each band's catalog, even though it's easy to see that Harmonix is far more concerned with a songs functionality versus it's popularity.

This week, we're getting three (more?!) NIN songs, and it seems that only NIN fans who play drums are excited about it. I know the list is long for people who want to see "Closer", but seriously the main lyric is "I wanna f**k you like an animal". Good luck with that.

Shinedown is also part of the DLC, and while I am very happy to see them added, I'm bummed that "Fly From The Inside", "Burning Bright" and "45" weren't among the candidates.

I understand there are instances where the popular song won't win out, such as Disturbed's track pack that coincided with their new album's release. That's just brilliant planning and marketing by them. Same with The Who, who had their track pack of Greatest Hits hit Marketplace the same week they have their VH-1 Rock Honors run. Again, good planning and marketing.

However, I'll have to hang my boys out to dry on the following...

Motley Crue totally dropped the ball with the CrueFest Track Pack. They have a good, solid lineup of bands on the tour, and to coincide with the tour kicking off, they released a below average pack of 3 songs featuring the bands. First off, fans (like myself) may have purchased the pack out of loyalty to one or more of the bands, but in the end, we didn't get a very good product.

You tell me how many people would've bought this track pack at 400+ MSP:

CrueFest Track Pack
Motley Crue - "Shout at the Devil"
Papa Roach - "Last Resort"
Trapt - "Headstrong"
Buckcherry - "Crazy Bitch" or "Lit Up"
Sixx A.M. - "Life is Beautiful"

That would've sold THOUSANDS, and reminded people of the good bands that are on that tour, along with the great songs those bands are known for. For the record, I priced the pack at 400 MSP, since they offered the songs at 80 MSP on the actual CrueFest Pack, although I'd imagine that the group of songs list above would be at 160 MSP each.

I find myself usually purchasing a single song from a group of 3 or 5 bands that are released each week. The alternative is that, while not a Who fan, and a dozen or so of their songs come out and I skip it altogether (I was considering "Behind Blue Eyes" for the record).

For the most part I'm happy with the rate that the DLC is delivered, I just wish that when Harmonix and a band agree on a song to release, that they take into consideration a lot more than the functionality.

I bet that if I asked for a list of songs not featured in the game, for each band that's in the game (either on disc or by DLC), there'd be an average of 2-3 songs for each band. Harmonix needs to take that fact into account.

smashngrab77
07-22-2008, 01:07 AM
all i have to say is man you guys have a lot of spare time and Nevermind would be fantastic

edd__
07-22-2008, 10:51 AM
I agree with you RiteNow.
I think a lot of stuff has been a bit disappointing, like the Weezer pack. Would've much prefered stuff from the Blue Album. I am getting a bit annoyed that a lot of the recent DLC seems to be new releases, bands just getting publicity for new albums that need to be sold.

I really wish they could be songs with swearing in there. But give a warning before you download/play it that says so. Like "this song contains offensive material that may offend some people. If you are one of these people, press B."

Dex
07-22-2008, 12:21 PM
I agree with you RiteNow.
I think a lot of stuff has been a bit disappointing, like the Weezer pack. Would've much prefered stuff from the Blue Album. I am getting a bit annoyed that a lot of the recent DLC seems to be new releases, bands just getting publicity for new albums that need to be sold.

I partially agree.
Yes, tracks from the Blue Album would me a billion times better than anything else, I'm still happy to play Weezer songs. I'm starting to see Rock Band DLC more like how I see the radio, but not as horrible.

Lets say Harmonix wants to put... Surf Wax America (Weezer's Blue Album) in Rock Band. Well, Geffen (Weezer's label) might ask for XX amount of $. But Geffen might counter that and say to Harmonix "But... we will pay you XX amount of $ to put these 3 new Weezer songs in Rock Band". Well, of course Harmonix is going to say yes. Money, good. New songs, good. And still Weezer, also good.
I think eventually, Harmonix will have enough money and credibility with the rock world, that they can ask for certain song(s) or album(s) and provide whatever cost is asked of them.

I really wish they could be songs with swearing in there. But give a warning before you download/play it that says so. Like "this song contains offensive material that may offend some people. If you are one of these people, press B."

I wouldn't hold my breath. To reach the largest audience thats possible, the songs will always be "radio edits".
It's an unspoken rule that if a game is rated T for Teen, it also means that all DLC must abide by that rating. I know there is a disclaimer on all DLC, but parents are stupid. Mine are. Yours are. Even the wolves that raised Cobra are stupid. Some mom is going to let little 13yo Johnny download a song for his T for Teen game, and when she hears the F-bomb, all hell will break loose.

Unless Rock Band 2 is rated M for Mature, don't expect to see/hear any swearing in any songs. Is it really that important?

edd__
07-22-2008, 12:52 PM
I know the swearing thing won't happen. Wish it would, but alas, no.
The point is that i hate it when songs have to get edited to prevent people throwing hissy fits, and im sure a horde of bands would feel the same. No matter how little, it's still a change to the song. The effect is lost, the power, the whole point. Like in Creep for example, the lyric in the actual song is "You're so fucking special" but the radio edit version just loses all impact of that line, and the aggression in Thom's voice is replaced with a nonchalant mundane "very" which just ruins it for me.
It makes it lose the whole point of the song. There's a big difference between the two, and i know people may not agree with me, but there's plenty of examples where i think that it just doesn't do the songs justice, makes the lose the force behind them because of it.

Are You Dead Yet
07-22-2008, 01:25 PM
Killing in the Name on GH2 was a horrible edit.
It really killed the song.

Matrarch
07-22-2008, 01:38 PM
While I agree with you to some degree, I don't really see the big deal about the inclusion or lack thereof of swearing in the songs. You're singing the song, not listening to it. If you want to drop the F-bomb in Creep, go for it. As long as your pitch is good, it doesn't matter to the game what you do. :)

And as for the newer releases, keep in mind that Rock Band is becoming a promotional tool for many bands. Take for example Saints of Los Angeles. The release of the song on iTunes garnered about 10,000 downloads in the first week. Rock Band on the other hand generated 40,000 downloads in that same span. Bands want to put their new stuff on Rock Band to increase the potential reach of the song and it's beginning to be proven to be a smart move. As such, they'll continue to push for new material to come out because maybe, just maybe, that single song you like on Rock Band will prompt you to buy the album.

I think though, as Dex points out, HMX's credibility and by extension Rock Band's potential inpact has alot to do with what songs they'll be able to acquire. I mean, just look at the fact that they acquired that vault edition of Working Man. This is as a result of their hard work and the proven success of DLC. As time goes on, I'm sure we'll see more tracks like this pop up in Rock Band.

RiteNowRiteNow
07-22-2008, 02:10 PM
While I agree with you to some degree, I don't really see the big deal about the inclusion or lack thereof of swearing in the songs. You're singing the song, not listening to it. If you want to drop the F-bomb in Creep, go for it. As long as your pitch is good, it doesn't matter to the game what you do. :)

And as for the newer releases, keep in mind that Rock Band is becoming a promotional tool for many bands. Take for example Saints of Los Angeles. The release of the song on iTunes garnered about 10,000 downloads in the first week. Rock Band on the other hand generated 40,000 downloads in that same span. Bands want to put their new stuff on Rock Band to increase the potential reach of the song and it's beginning to be proven to be a smart move. As such, they'll continue to push for new material to come out because maybe, just maybe, that single song you like on Rock Band will prompt you to buy the album.

I think though, as Dex points out, HMX's credibility and by extension Rock Band's potential inpact has alot to do with what songs they'll be able to acquire. I mean, just look at the fact that they acquired that vault edition of Working Man. This is as a result of their hard work and the proven success of DLC. As time goes on, I'm sure we'll see more tracks like this pop up in Rock Band.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I have 3 playlists on my iPod for Rock Band. For the songs I'm not so familiar with, it's a great help. I have my regular "Rock Band Songs" playlist that has all the songs from the disc, plus all the DLC I have. I have a "Rock Band 2" playlist now that the tracklist has been revealed. I also have a playlist titled "New Hires" which is for DLC that's available that I'm not sure if I want. I'll download the song and give it a spin and see if it's worthy. Currently, Shinedown's "Devour" is on there, and will probably get downloaded tonight.

That being said, if most RB players are doing something similar, that means bands are getting their songs downloaded just by having their material on Rock Band. And from the iTunes perspective, that's nothing but $$ for them. And that's saying nothing if the player/listener likes the song. I'm talking strictly from a "I need to hear it all before I buy it as DLC" point-of-view.

As far as the cursing goes...

For Radiohead's "Creep" and Black Tide's "Shockwave", especially the latter, I can't help but swear. "Creep" is a little more avoidable, but I was already a Black Tide fan when they released "Shockwave" as DLC, so that's how I'm used to hearing it, "I'll take your f**king life". It's odd to have a 15-year old singing that line, but that song is probably my favorite song in the game given it's sonic energy, it's tempo and for the game itself, it's difficulty on guitar.

To this day, my biggest achievement was 5-starring that song with my 15-year old daughter singing it (without the cursing I might add), my 9-year old playing bass on medium and me playing guitar on hard. We got the 5th star in the 2nd to last measure, and it was the final song of a 4-song set in which we 5-starred all the songs. We got a nice payday (You get three times the money if you 5-star everything), and the girls spent the next hour buying sh*t for their avatars.

But it's stories like that, that make the game great isn't it?

RockstarSuicide
07-22-2008, 09:46 PM
Payola runs the industry. Labels want to promote new albums in hopes of moving actual units outside of the game (be it iTunes or physical)

FelixFelicis77
07-23-2008, 05:13 PM
I know tastes vary etc but QOTSA's Songs for the Deaf is just ripe for Rock Band, every track would be great to play for every instrument. I like the variety on offer with the DLC, and hats off to the amount of effort put in by Harmonix to keep the track listing fresh.