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View Full Version : Why is Vader Such a Wuss in Episode VI - Spoiler Alert


punisher
09-19-2008, 03:15 AM
** Possible Spoiler **

I have'nt got to the end but know that you need to beat Vader. Why is vader so super powerful in force unleashed and such a pussy in Episode IV.

In force unleashed he is a master with a lightsaber and shoots a massive force push cloud at you but in Episode VI, Luke loses his temper cuts Vader's hand and Vader is on the floor crying like a bitch.

notdryad
09-19-2008, 03:19 AM
The easy answer: the technology wasn't nearly as advanced as it is today.

happy42gilmore
09-19-2008, 03:48 AM
The easy answer: the technology wasn't nearly as advanced as it is today.


i dont think he's talking about the special effects..
im pretty sure he's talking about why was vadar so weak in the episode. as in the character. whichh would mean all the technology is the same, well in star wars, not real life lol. dunno how much sense that makes but it makes sense too me. vadar is my fav star wars char and idk that kinda made me mad that luke smashed on him but idk he's like double luke's age, half his body is mechanical so that might have something too do with it. wish i knew :confused:

TheCanWithin
09-19-2008, 04:02 AM
My it's because they are .... 10 year older then before??

I think I've read somewhere that the gap between Ep3 and Ep4 is about 10-20 years... That'd make Vader (who is now a cyborg) about 40-50 ?



..erm... Yes, why was he such a pussy !?

madcap1
09-19-2008, 04:50 AM
okay here is my take. general grievous is a early version of vader he was human at one point then was put into that suit and as you can tell it has taken a toll on him with his coughing and trouble breathing like vader, so when the emperor made vader with that suit it was a advanced version but it still a human being inside so time does effect him. Just look at obi one kenobi he was a little older then vader but when he fought him (vader) for the last time on the death star he had no wear near the skill he had when he fought him as anakin. The suite is just to protect him now to help him breath not give him cyborg powers he is strong with the force but the body is beat to hell. Thats just my thoughts.

PythiaArgead
09-19-2008, 05:35 AM
That does not account for Count Dooku and Yoda laying down major whoop arse on people ... and they were much older than 40.

The fact is that story telling and fight sequences were not Lucas' strong point and he is only left with relaying power through dialogue (again something he does poorly).


Don't forget that if you read the books it clearly states that Vader has been slowly healing himself ... to the point where he was able to breath without the suite (for very short periods). They touch on this briefly in some scenes

madcap1
09-19-2008, 05:42 AM
yoda is not hunman so he is not bound by human standers and Count Dooku was just a kick ass old man lol but yes I have read the books wich are better then the movies I think, but it does not change the fact that vader is a very beat up person and Count Dooku was not. Vader needs the suit 99% of the time to survive Count Dooku does not he is still human and he does not need a suite to keep him alive like vader.

xRogue 5x
09-19-2008, 05:43 AM
Because he doesn't want to kill luke. He is holding back.

On a side note Grievous wasn't human.

madcap1
09-19-2008, 05:46 AM
Because he doesn't want to kill luke. He is holding back.

On a side note Grievous wasn't human.

Yes he was listen to the audio commentary on ep three dvd they talk about how he was the crude version of vader and how he is more machine then human.

xRogue 5x
09-19-2008, 05:49 AM
There is a big difference in idle talk on dvd commentary and cannon from a source book.

Grievous is/was a "Kaleesh" Warlord.

Edit* I found a pic but i'm pretty sure we're humans...and I don't think we look like thishttp://images.play.com/covers/3433636x.jpg

madcap1
09-19-2008, 05:54 AM
There is a big difference in idle talk on dvd commentary and cannon from a source book.

Grievous is/was a "Kaleesh" Warlord.

Damn lucas and his lackies lies I tell you lol My bad then thanks for info.
I should not argue with a jedi master.;)

Silence07
09-19-2008, 07:29 PM
Because it's a video game and he's a boss fight. When before in Star Wars did you see someone pull down a Star Destroyer with the force?

Rashaka1
09-19-2008, 08:04 PM
At any point did someone assume that on the dvd commentary that perhaps when they said more machine than human... They just meant more machine than flesh?

Sniper Riflez
09-19-2008, 08:19 PM
You'll see when you get to the end really.

Darth Odan
09-19-2008, 09:35 PM
** Possible Spoiler **

I have'nt got to the end but know that you need to beat Vader. Why is vader so super powerful in force unleashed and such a pussy in Episode IV.

In force unleashed he is a master with a lightsaber and shoots a massive force push cloud at you but in Episode VI, Luke loses his temper cuts Vader's hand and Vader is on the floor crying like a bitch.

For one, he's a lot older than what he is in Force Unleashed. There is, at least, a ten year interval between Force Unleashed and Episode 6. Second: the ending of Force Unleashed explains why he's weaker. Third: Its his son. He isn't able to kill his son, so he holds back. Fourth: The original trilogy was built for character development, not for OMFG FORCE PWN YOU! Or Yoda jumping around and kicking ass to then 20 years being almost unable to walk....

Fonkey Monkey
09-19-2008, 09:40 PM
Fourth: The original trilogy was built for character development, not for OMFG FORCE PWN YOU! Or Yoda jumping around and kicking ass to then 20 years being almost unable to walk....

YouTube - At Midnight I Will Kill George Lucas With A Shovel

just thought id throw that in there;)

A Satyr
09-19-2008, 09:47 PM
Vader is a wuss oh my mommy died im emo, my wife is cheating with me on obi wan im gonna kill you waah, ahh i got my legs and arms lopped off by obi and left to fry *Agonizing pain*, ahh i killed padme wahhhh *big crying scene*, hahaha pussy...

You know with out that machine voice box he would sound like a 2 year old girl since his nuts got melted by lava...

sk0m
09-19-2008, 11:13 PM
Well on major reason vader may seem like a wuss in the original trilogy is that force push and grip hadn't really been invented yet. Only powers Lucas even had dreamed up was mind trick, lightning (which vader can't use anyways), choke, and foresight. Everything else was lightsabers.

All the other powers came from the new trilogy and the expanded universe.

Remember the original trilogy only had the original trilogy to pull from, lol.

The Force Unleashed had the new trilogy and the expanded universe as reference as well as the original trilogy.

DUBAGNT5691
09-24-2008, 12:47 PM
yes its stupid that as starkiller u beat vader i was pissed but overall a great game and vader is g and whoever said vader holds back against luke made a great point and the newer movies ould have made use of how lucas meant the force to be like but the movies story would not have made sence if the jedi were as powerful as in the gme so the force unleashed was a great way to show the forces capability

davie mac
09-24-2008, 01:01 PM
My take on it was Vader was a wuss in The Force Unleashed. There was nothing really badass about him, his boss fight is so linear and predictable.

In the movies he was badass in Episode 5 but in Episode 6 he was just an old man who was in a moral dilemma. You could see even before the final fight he was having serious doubts about what he wanted to do. During the fight he was just a confused soul who was unsure on what he should do.

Plus add how Luke was younger and equally or more powerful than his father then you can see why Vader came off looking as a wuss. At the end of the day Vader is still badass in my book.

Jimmmz
09-24-2008, 01:16 PM
Have any of you played the Force UNLEASHED?!?!

I'm so shocked that none of you have put these facts which you have seen to explain why hes so much weaker in the old films...

Did any of you even see the fight between Vader and the Apprentice? did any of you see what he did to Vader near the end of the fight??

Well then... i suggest you replay that level and watch it, cause Vader got his assed kicked and nearly died...again

This was the one reason why the showed us this scene of Vader getting beaten the crap out of, after this fight he was a lot weaker beacuse he was really badly injured.. The Creators of the game did this for a CLEAR purpose...

davie mac
09-24-2008, 01:19 PM
Jimmmz I did say that at the start of mines, Vader was a wuss in The Force Unleashed. However he is still badass in my book.

The game was meant to make Starkiller look more powerful than even the Emperor, check out the Light Side ending. So personally I still think Vader is badass.

BullZeye
09-24-2008, 01:26 PM
All good reasons,but there's one that I thought of that wasn't mentioned here :
He was out of practice in episodes IV-VI.He hadn't fought a real enemy in years,all he did was choking commanders and other officers to death if they didn't do their job right.While in the Force unleashed he's still hunting jedi so he's alot more active.Plus,his suit might have gotten rusty...

davie mac
09-24-2008, 01:32 PM
All good reasons,but there's one that I thought of that wasn't mentioned here :
He was out of practice in episodes IV-VI.He hadn't fought a real enemy in years,all he did was choking commanders and other officers to death if they didn't do their job right.While in the Force unleashed he's still hunting jedi so he's alot more active.Plus,his suit might have gotten rusty...

Good reasons actually, I remember reading that Lucas had originally intended for Vader in Episode 3 to look different from the original costume but due to the outrage from fans he used the original designs.

My point being he probably would/did get upgrades as technology advances but I do agree about his fighting skills being rusty due to lack of use. I don't really see Vader and the Emperor being sparring partners in the years following TFU haha.

Was it me or did they kind of rip a hole in the canonical story as well when they removed Vader's helmet? In RotJ it is said that if Vader removes his helmet he will be unable to breathe and die. Yeah I know we have the scene in Empire when he's without his helmet but according to the story that machine basically does the job on a grander scale so no need for the mask.

Foxhound300
09-24-2008, 02:01 PM
Someone may have said this already, but a reason Vader lost to Luke was because he knew Luke was his son, so he was holding back.

Another excuse is that with every injury his body became more and more machine, so the force had less and less substance to flow through, and so he couldn't use enough power.

InkedUp
09-24-2008, 02:21 PM
All good reasons,but there's one that I thought of that wasn't mentioned here :
He was out of practice in episodes IV-VI.He hadn't fought a real enemy in years,all he did was choking commanders and other officers to death if they didn't do their job right.While in the Force unleashed he's still hunting jedi so he's alot more active.Plus,his suit might have gotten rusty...
A rusty suit, LMAO

Fruhmann360
09-24-2008, 05:01 PM
yeah. vader was holding back. even in this game starkiller says "you didn't really want do destroy the emperor, did you?" and vader replies "yes...but now with you." probably meant luke, no?

also, i don't buy this "oh as humans get older they get weaker" or whatever. cause i'm sure it's not a rookie move to release yourself into the force like obi wan did in a new hope.

shinobigarth
09-24-2008, 05:01 PM
In force unleashed he is a master with a lightsaber and shoots a massive force push cloud at you but in Episode VI, Luke loses his temper cuts Vader's hand and Vader is on the floor crying like a bitch.
Vader was older at that time, hadnt had much practice before Luke fought him, and you could say he was going easy on Luke cause he didnt want to kill him. he was mainly trying to get Luke pissed off so he would join the dark side, so he wasnt trying very hard. this is easy to see in any of their fights, you can easily tell Vader isnt trying very hard. he's only fighting hard enough to try to piss Luke off not hurt him (except for cutting his hand off).

where as in this game, he's obviously trying to kill the Apprentice.

Foxhound300
09-24-2008, 05:04 PM
also, i don't buy this "oh as humans get older they get weaker" or whatever. cause i'm sure it's not a rookie move to release yourself into the force like obi wan did in a new hope.

yes, that isn't true. force connection would only be weaker if you are less human so there is less of you to channel it. Thus why Vader couldn't do force lightning, there wasn't enough of him left to channel it.

xI DaR3DeViL Ix
09-24-2008, 05:31 PM
No one know that some random bloke wrote 'The force unleashed' and its just another side story to the actual films.

No one realised around 20 people have written side star wars based books etc but this one was the best of the lot and was made into a game?

Honestly the game was good but no one should take this into consideration that this is actually what was meant to happen between films 3 & 4.

This is just someones theory basically. Go off and make your own theory, Im sure you can make it better then this. I mean the whole apprentice stuff is awesome but the endings and whatever is stupid.

The way I see it, between 3 & 4 Vadar hunts down the last of the Jedi as best as he can but obviously not all and then 4 starts with the 'New hope' for the Jedi's in winning the 'war'.

This game etc is just a random theory thats cool enough for Lucas to say 'Ok make it a game and I will take a percentage of the profits' lol.

Also everyone check out the youtube video lol, I never thought of it this way and Im not a massive star wars fan although do like the concept but that guy sums up the 3 later films up so easily lol.

Jamie Solo
09-24-2008, 06:33 PM
@ daredevil - Yeah, but can you think of a better way for the Rebel Alliance to be formed, than, "it just happened at the right time"? So Obi-Wan was like, " The Death Star must be stopped, luckily I hid around 50 ships and 100 people for something like this. They had a boring job waiting 20 years but, oh well!"

xI DaR3DeViL Ix
09-24-2008, 06:55 PM
Well yeah there were these people who formed the rebal alliance in secrecy in between and most likely used a lesser known planet to develop and make these ships for the rebellion etc lol.

I dont really know but either way the Rebel Alliance in secret starting to develop or still had access to ships, equipment etc for the attack on the Dark Side.

In 'A New Hope' we see the base where they plan the attack on the big ship or whatever it was where Luke fly's through the tight gap and blows the thing up.

So at the start of 'A New Hope' we see Vadar find one of the secret Rebel ships and head on board to capture anyone of importance to the alliance, such as Leia (Spelling?)

Sniper Riflez
09-24-2008, 07:13 PM
There's deleted scenes in Ep 3 about them making the rebel alliance because they suspect Palpatine is corrupt. But they were boring and dragged so got cut.

That comdeian is awesome aswell :P

DUBAGNT5691
09-24-2008, 07:34 PM
i think this is a great game but the story went to shit after the first 2 levels i mean i was excited to be vaders apperntince and then u end following to the light side AND BEATING VADER get thew fuck out of here i was so pissed i almost went and sold my copy u should hve finished the game losing to em. palpetine with vader and starkiller and then like palpetine taught vader a lesson or something idont know anything better the crap story at the end and the traliers and demos made it seem like each charecter would have more character devolopment than they really did

RRIKER
09-24-2008, 08:24 PM
age and failing health from being in a suit for 24 years.

"How long? God, you must smell like feet wrapped in leathery burnt bacon."
-- Emperor Palpatine (Robot Chicken) after the Death Star was blown up.

Fruhmann360
09-24-2008, 10:46 PM
age and failing health from being in a suit for 24 years.

"how long? God, you must smell like feet wrapped in leathery burnt bacon."
-- emperor palpatine (robot chicken) after the death star was blown up.


so i threw the senate at 'em!

SuperGaz
09-25-2008, 03:38 PM
i woudlnt really say he was a pussy lol

Within the first 5 mins of the episode 4 doesnt he

-levitate a rebel soldier in the air
-then snap his neck with one hand
-and then bitch slaps his brocken corpse.

(made the last one up but that would be quality)

....Yeah what a pussy........eeep

xRogue 5x
09-25-2008, 07:10 PM
He doesn't levitate him. He simply lifts him with his enhanced robot strength and then crushes his neck.

Man is there no attention to star wars lore in here....

Again, Vader in the later three movies is a wuss. He is a shadow of his former self. He doesn't have much actual body left and this has greatly reduced his connection to the force and he is an old man. Like it has been stated earlier he could have killed luke easily because luke was early in his training but he holds back not wanting to kill him.

Yes this is indeed what happens between 3 and 4. Everything that comes out in the star wars universe is run by George Lucas and his continuity team at Lucas Film. He has been very controlling of that time period because of the upcoming animated cartoon and live action tv show. So you can bet that the story in force unleashed had to get his personal approval before it could be released. In the making of the game they talk about how excited they were to have him excited about the idea as well as him giving them ideas to work with.

Daggermn
09-25-2008, 08:02 PM
Spot on Rouge! that's exactly what I was going to say. You just beat me to it, lol. I remember seeing an interview with George Lucas, before the prequils were released, saying that in the original trilogy, the only lightsaber battles we saw were from aged old men and an unskilled/untrained boy.

It was also stated earlier in this thread that Vader can not use force lightning because the fact that he does not have enough channel to the force because half of his body missing. I agree and disagree with this. I agree that vader is not as stong as he used to be because half of his body is gone and thus half of his original midiclorians are missing, but I don't agree with the force lightning. I think that he can't use lightning because his body is mechanical and thus would cause it not to work. I believe that is what kills him in Ep VI, Palp's lightning.

I agree everyone on this thread that his fight with Luke was held back due to the conflict with himself. Before the fight, Luke called it on him and he tried to play it cool by saying "There is no conflict," but we all knew he was battling with himself.

I am suppried that no one brought up the crap lightsaber fight in Ep. IV though. Ep IV only takes place about 2 years after The Force Unleashed, Vader should have had some of the skill that he had in TFU. The only thing that makes sense is what everyone has been saying on this thread, about the damage he took at the end of TFU.

Sorry for rambling, I am kind of a Star Wars freak. lol.

Foxhound300
09-25-2008, 08:17 PM
i thank god for people like rogue and dagger who actually know things about star wars. Otherwise i'd have to deal with all these people who know nothing. Instead i can sit back and let them answer everything.

Myth
09-25-2008, 08:18 PM
Anakin had the capability of being the strongest Jedi to ever live. His midi-chloriancount, the highest ever recorded. However, after his fight with Obi Wan he was injured so badly that he became more machine then man. Meaning he could never attain his full potential.

On top of this, in his battle with Luke he did not want to kill him. He was trying to convert him to the dark side.

But Vader isn't that strong anyway. There are quite a few different other characters that could destroy Vader in a fight.

Like i said, he's more machine then human, which is why Sidious wanted his Son.

Jamie Solo
09-25-2008, 10:48 PM
Yes this is indeed what happens between 3 and 4. Everything that comes out in the star wars universe is run by George Lucas and his continuity team at Lucas Film. He has been very controlling of that time period because of the upcoming animated cartoon and live action tv show. So you can bet that the story in force unleashed had to get his personal approval before it could be released. In the making of the game they talk about how excited they were to have him excited about the idea as well as him giving them ideas to work with.

Could you imagine all the crap we'd have in the Expanded universe if it weren't for that too?

I remember reading in another thread about how crap Lucas is with Star Wars and how he didn't care about it, but that obviously isnt true. You only need to look a the Expanded Universe to see it. And even if you look at the early videos of TFU you can see the team eagerly waiting for George's fax to come through with opinions on the story.

True Marvellous
09-25-2008, 11:23 PM
The easy answer: the technology wasn't nearly as advanced as it is today.

No silly its because the Green Cross Code man isn't relay that threatening :woop:

Fruhmann360
09-25-2008, 11:31 PM
I remember reading in another thread about how crap Lucas is with Star Wars and how he didn't care about it, but that obviously isnt true. You only need to look a the Expanded Universe to see it. And even if you look at the early videos of TFU you can see the team eagerly waiting for George's fax to come through with opinions on the story.

1. lucas is a terrible director
2. all that fuss over waiting for lucas' approval of what can and can not be done, and still we get this?

xI DaR3DeViL Ix
09-26-2008, 12:16 AM
He doesn't levitate him. He simply lifts him with his enhanced robot strength and then crushes his neck.

Man is there no attention to star wars lore in here....

Again, Vader in the later three movies is a wuss. He is a shadow of his former self. He doesn't have much actual body left and this has greatly reduced his connection to the force and he is an old man. Like it has been stated earlier he could have killed luke easily because luke was early in his training but he holds back not wanting to kill him.

Yes this is indeed what happens between 3 and 4. Everything that comes out in the star wars universe is run by George Lucas and his continuity team at Lucas Film. He has been very controlling of that time period because of the upcoming animated cartoon and live action tv show. So you can bet that the story in force unleashed had to get his personal approval before it could be released. In the making of the game they talk about how excited they were to have him excited about the idea as well as him giving them ideas to work with.

Yeah Lucas had to approve it and thats what really does my head in.

Some guy wrote this spin off set between 3 and 4 as a book. It was obviously fans fav book out of the tons that there are and so Lucas approved of it as a game.

Its not official he was obviously just happy to have it as a game set between the films and actual story.

What does my head in the most is that he approved of game developers endings where Vadar basically dies and one ending he dies.

This is obviously not what happened between films 3 and 4. Its just some guys made up opinion etc and another way for Star Wars fans to get more from the Universe and most off all for Lucas to make more money.

Like I said earlier, I would like to think that this kind of thing did happen but Vadar wasnt almost killed. Let alone actually killed.

Jade Falcon
09-26-2008, 01:35 AM
Here's my reasinings.

First off Emokin/Vader got burnt up pretty bad in Episode 3.

Secondly, there's about say......15 - 20 years between ROTS and Star Wars. Then about 3-5 years between Star Wars and ESB, then about another year max between that and ROTJ.

Expanded Universe sources say that Luke spent final year studying the Force. Anyone whose read the book Shadows of the Empire will know that it's also mentioned that the Emperor gives Vader an asskicking as well for allowing the Death Star to get blown up.

Oh, and regarding the helmet, Vader can remove it, it's the mask thats the bit that can't come off.

Fruhmann360
09-26-2008, 01:45 AM
Jade Falcon, good looking out.

Reading about the Sith in EU is so awesome. If you never checked out the darth maul ep1 prequel book shadow hunter, then do so. really puts things into perspective about how they truly see the force and such.

also, the SOTE game for N64 is better than this game.
Dash Rendar > Starkiller

Jamie Solo
09-26-2008, 04:16 PM
Jade Falcon, good looking out.

Reading about the Sith in EU is so awesome. If you never checked out the darth maul ep1 prequel book shadow hunter, then do so. really puts things into perspective about how they truly see the force and such.

also, the SOTE game for N64 is better than this game.
Dash Rendar > Starkiller

If you like reading Sith books then I recommend reading the Darth Bane books.

xRogue 5x
09-26-2008, 05:40 PM
Yeah, the Bane novels where superb.

I think the gap between 3 and 4 is much greater than 1 year. Probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 10ish but i'm not sure on that.

As for the episode iv fight which was brought up...

Again, Vader (weak old machine) and Obi-wan (old).

Obi-Wan was also fighting almost purely on the defensive. Remember he has been talking and planning with the spirits of Jedi for years in the deserts of tatooine. He holds back against Vader because he knows that he is essential to their plan. If he were to kill Vader it would have only caused the Emperor to agressively pursue Luke. Luke would have fallen and so to would the galaxies hopes.

Fruhmann360
09-26-2008, 05:40 PM
If you like reading Sith books then I recommend reading the Darth Bane books.

yeah. i'd like to check them all out eventually. i could easily go into a bookstore and drop a small fortune on star wars novels.

SuperNova X2X
09-26-2008, 06:01 PM
There are so many reasons. If you did some research you would know why. Now I'm a Star Wars fanatic and I'm always looking at Wookieepedia.

Also George Lucas didn't invent half of all the stuff that's floating around these days, like all the force powers. Hell, Chewbacca was born because of his dog, and does he look like a dog? Well, sort of but you get my point.

Darth Vader was 39 when he died, so he was fairly old, but my point still remains, he would have been much more powerful if Lucas had created all the stuff we have now back then, but they didn't really have the stuff to pull it all off.

Darth Odan
09-26-2008, 06:48 PM
[quote=Jade Falcon;1180029]Here's my reasinings.

Secondly, there's about say......15 - 20 years between ROTS and Star Wars. Then about 3-5 years between Star Wars and ESB, then about another year max between that and ROTJ.
/quote]

Revenge of the Sith is 19 BBY.
Force Unleashed: ? 6-4 BBY
A New Hope: 0BBY
Empire Strikes Back: 2-3 ABY
Return of the Jedi: 5 ABY.

F3TUSCOMMAND0
09-26-2008, 07:43 PM
Ok im a huge star wars nerd and some of your responses are getting me a little irked. I read one person saying that Grevious was coughing because of the suit he was wearing actually Mace Windew crushed his rib cage during the clone wars cartoon series which is a direct tie in to episode 3.The reason Vader is sort of whimp in Return of the Jedi is because the emperor is making him fight his son and he is having conflicting feelings about what to do so he's not realy fighting back. But i hear what you people are saying it would of been awsome to see a super powered Vader beating the shit out of Luke haha

Jade Falcon
09-26-2008, 10:33 PM
[quote=Jade Falcon;1180029]Here's my reasinings.

Secondly, there's about say......15 - 20 years between ROTS and Star Wars. Then about 3-5 years between Star Wars and ESB, then about another year max between that and ROTJ.
/quote]

Revenge of the Sith is 19 BBY.
Force Unleashed: ? 6-4 BBY
A New Hope: 0BBY
Empire Strikes Back: 2-3 ABY
Return of the Jedi: 5 ABY.

So I wasn't that far off the mark then. I guess 15-20 between ROTS and Star Wars, and it's 20. I was a bit out in guessing between SW and ESB.

xRogue 5x
09-27-2008, 01:33 AM
Ah, nothing like some star wars nerd chat.

Try not to get to upset about responses everyone is on different levels in there fandom.

What matters is that we all share the common bond of Star Wars.

madcap1
09-27-2008, 04:17 AM
Do you guys ever go outside JK;) Some deep SW lore going on here
here is the real reason vader is a wimp in jedi......
http://www.devicepedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/smoking-darth-vader.jpg

XxGODAPOLLOxX
09-28-2008, 04:08 PM
well if it helps he did get the crap beat out of him by starkiller, if that would have anything to do with him losing power