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-   -   your thoughts on single player games with a dash of multiplayer (http://www.xboxachievements.com/forum/showthread.php?t=417034)

demonizer_andy 01-19-2013 11:00 AM

your thoughts on single player games with a dash of multiplayer
 
iv been a fan of tomb raider since its first release, i remember getting it for my sega saturn and playing it to death multiple times, trying to get through without dying, only using certain weapons, then iv had every release since, some good, some terrible, some with potential but too many broken mechanics....

so when this was announced it was a breath of fresh air for me, yes it looked like uncharted but its a new lease of life for the franchise and a new take and iv been so excited............until the multiplayer was announced....

its something that breaks me when it comes to gaming, why they do it or even try it is beyoned me, worse still is the amount of achievements they tie to them forcing you to play it....

if i want multiplayer il play battlefield/gears of war and the likes....

tomb raider always has been a single player game, co-op i do not mind in games, some games il only play if co-op is active, but far too many games are tacking on multiplayer now to try and force sales and milk out add ons on the XBLA, the darkness was my first real experience of this, fantastic game in my eyes but then there was a truly awful multiplayer game tacked on, bioshock was good at the time, then the 2nd came out and wow another tacked on multiplayer game that nobody wanted to play, then assassins creed now tomb raider...

i know you dont have to play if you dont want, but with so many achievements attached to it it makes you feel you have to but 9 times outta 10 you have to do it almost instantly as after a month or so nobody is playing anymore....

so whats your thoughts anyways, as you can probably guess i believe a single player experience should be exactly that and be left alone, and time and money invested into multiplayer aspects could be used to polish the game up and add more features where needed

pined5551 01-19-2013 12:09 PM

My thoughts? That the multiplayer shouldn't exist! End of.

We can see from the Spec-Ops: The Line situation that this will have been commissioned/forced by the publisher most like, simply so they have a stat to say "'x' amount of people have played our game online" in some board meeting, held by a bunch of suits who couldn't give a fuck about games. The presence of an MP is also an excuse to pedle 'map pack' dlc. Zero to little effort put in the build and over priced, it's an easy sale.

To be quite frank, I'm just about done with all forms of MP anyway. I simply don't engage with it at all anymore. The community (in general) is just packed with rude, annoying and largely unpleasant people and it's been a very long time since I've had a decent experience online.

armylifer94 01-19-2013 02:01 PM

I was going to get this game day 1, but now with the addition of MP I think I'll wait and pick it up later down the road when the price is reduced. I agree with alot of other players; not all games require a MP mode to be a great game.

xTGMx INF3RNO 01-19-2013 02:15 PM

I still cannot believe they have added MP to a Tomb Raider game. I mean what the fuck.... Also one of the game modes is death match! Very stupid decision IMO.

ImmortalArbiter 01-19-2013 03:20 PM

My thoughts? It's incredibly stupid.

The fat cat execs look at the success of Call of Duty, and ask why it's so popular. They get the answer: Multiplayer. So then, they want to add it to their game, not realizing that the multiplayer has to be the focus and not a cheap addition to really sell the game.

People can say "Well, if you don't like the multiplayer, don't play it!" To that I say: Each game has a budget and a deadline. Just think that that time and money could be spent enhancing the single player experience (which is what sells certain games, just like the multiplayer sells Call of Duty).

Did anyone ask for multiplayer in Tomb Raider? Highly doubtful. Then, to add insult to injury, they add multiplayer achievements - ones that usually take forever and/or require a ridiculous amount of boosting just so they can say "Well look! These people played our game for a long time! They must love it!"

Don't get me wrong - I do love multiplayer games. I've played a ton of Call of Duty, Gears of War, Halo, Team Fortress 2, etc. but games like BioShock, Assassin's Creed, Dead Space, Mass Effect, Rage, The Darkness, etc. DO NOT NEED IT! No one wants it! If they absolutely HAVE to add it in, why not just leave off the MP Achievements?

Tacked on multiplayer is one of the worst trends this generation (Disc Locked Content being my personal most hated) and sadly it doesn't seem like it's going away.

jordan1979 01-19-2013 03:55 PM

Disaster. And MP doesn't seem to be the only problem - read the previews, apparently the campaign is like a rigid on-rails cutscene where you hold down forward on the stick.

Back to the drawing board.

SmarmySmurf 01-19-2013 07:43 PM

I'm against it, and expect it has had a bigger impact on the design of the SP than they will ever admit. But... I would have tolerated it if not for the Achievements. To me that Achievement list is like having to apologize publicly to someone who just robbed you (or something extra insulting like that). Salt on a wound and a bridge too far. From day one preorder to day whenever rental, maybe.

Xenolith666 01-21-2013 01:27 AM

Add a crappy multiplayer.. but don't add achievements to it that force gamers to play it if they don't want to

demonizer_andy 01-21-2013 01:52 PM

glad you guys agree i extepcted to be flamed to death or something lol, iv not read previews on single player as yet, but iv read multiplayer ones and they are not good, but this was expected, its just ruining games, i dont mind co-op in some games like gears of war, in fact i prefer to play co- op. but games like resident evil should of kept single player, dead space should be single player,, il still give this game a go as iv always been a tomb raider fan, but forcing players to play online with grindy achievments, like get to level 60. why not get to level 10, why not sample 1 game of multiplayer, have 5 easy to gain achievments, its ridiculous...

someone also hit the nail on the head with MP in general too with squeaky voiced underage dicks exploiting glitches, mods or hacks annoying the real hardcore commited gamers, its not hard to havea verify account feature, where you must submit a scan of drivers license or birth certificate or something and even something as simple as tying it to the bank account you use on xbox live.......

Purge 01-21-2013 01:55 PM

Multiplayer in most games is pretty fun, so yeah, I'm happy with that decision.

kyboy 01-21-2013 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pined5551 (Post 5526253)
My thoughts? That the multiplayer shouldn't exist! End of.

We can see from the Spec-Ops: The Line situation that this will have been commissioned/forced by the publisher most like, simply so they have a stat to say "'x' amount of people have played our game online" in some board meeting, held by a bunch of suits who couldn't give a fuck about games. The presence of an MP is also an excuse to pedle 'map pack' dlc. Zero to little effort put in the build and over priced, it's an easy sale.

To be quite frank, I'm just about done with all forms of MP anyway. I simply don't engage with it at all anymore. The community (in general) is just packed with rude, annoying and largely unpleasant people and it's been a very long time since I've had a decent experience online.

I agree 100%. I've shifted away from MP because of these things..

Gem87 01-21-2013 02:17 PM

I think that now is better if Microsoft removes Gamerscore and achievements..
Too many people judge a game only on the achievements.. (also myself, i am not going to buy this game only because of these achievements..)
born of the achievements consequences?
Much more collectibles, kill someone in the modes described, hordes, leveling up and prestige..
consequence?
Game with a story of 5/10h, with the collectibles under your feet because it's boring to search around, all the game focused on a guy with some weapons and you have to shoot at everything that move..
Very fun, thanks Microsoft..
This is the era of FPS/TPS every game is going to transform into one of these 2 categories..
At least until there will be people who play..

Steakslave 01-21-2013 02:35 PM

Only a "dash" of MP would be fine. Dead Space 2 is the best example I can think of - no MP achievements. Hell I never even tried it's MP. Max Payne 3 was actually a pleasant surprise for me and I ended up playing the MP quite a bit past just going for the achievements. Hopefully this will be along those lines; because with 240G for just the MP it seems they've put alot of stock in it.

xTGMx INF3RNO 01-21-2013 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gem87 (Post 5530187)
I think that now is better if Microsoft removes Gamerscore and achievements..
Too many people judge a game only on the achievements.. (also myself, i am not going to buy this game only because of these achievements..)

I agree. Before the 360 there were no achievements and it was to play for fun.
Apparently they might remove GS from the 720 (Doubt it)

However I am now one of those people who play for achievements. I would be so pissed if they took the away.
I don't not play a game because it has shit achievements however I might play a game I don't like just for the GS

freedomgeass 01-23-2013 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonizer_andy (Post 5526199)
its something that breaks me when it comes to gaming, why they do it or even try it is beyoned me, worse still is the amount of achievements they tie to them forcing you to play it....

if i want multiplayer il play battlefield/gears of war and the likes....

tomb raider always has been a single player game, co-op i do not mind in games, some games il only play if co-op is active, but far too many games are tacking on multiplayer now to try and force sales and milk out add ons on the XBLA, the darkness was my first real experience of this, fantastic game in my eyes but then there was a truly awful multiplayer game tacked on, bioshock was good at the time, then the 2nd came out and wow another tacked on multiplayer game that nobody wanted to play, then assassins creed now tomb raider...

i know you dont have to play if you dont want, but with so many achievements attached to it it makes you feel you have to but 9 times outta 10 you have to do it almost instantly as after a month or so nobody is playing anymore....

I agree with this. I don't see the point in RPG's and strong story driven games needing a MP. I'm thinking of games such as Assassin Creed, Bio Shock, Fable, Mass Effect, and the up cumming Dragon age 3 Inquisition. the only one of these franchise's I don't have a problem with is Mass Effect and with there MP achievements also have a means of getting them in campaign.

Now I am one of those people who look up the achievements before I get the game's because I am lucky if I can afford one new game a year and most games I get I get when they have been out for years and I don't want a game were I am going to be struggling to find people to grind the achievements with.

cjdavies 02-14-2013 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImmortalArbiter (Post 5526476)
People can say "Well, if you don't like the multiplayer, don't play it!" To that I say: Each game has a budget and a deadline. Just think that that time and money could be spent enhancing the single player experience (which is what sells certain games, just like the multiplayer sells Call of Duty).

Don't get me wrong - I do love multiplayer games. I've played a ton of Call of Duty, Gears of War, Halo, Team Fortress 2, etc. but games like BioShock, Assassin's Creed, Dead Space, Mass Effect, Rage, The Darkness, etc. DO NOT NEED IT! No one wants it! If they absolutely HAVE to add it in, why not just leave off the MP Achievements?

To that I say, I play almost every evening, and never have trouble finding a match so some people do want it. Also the ones you listed you played, they are the same just different title.

Maybe for the MP achievements, they should do what Mass Effect 3 did.

mavryk 02-20-2013 09:48 AM

totally agree,tomb raider is my favourite game franchise,have them all,wont bother with this though,always stated when lara gets multiplayer I will not buy it,guess they forced my hand,look forward to raider descending into the shit pit that resident evil now lives in.Glad i am not the only person sick of fucking online,co-op and multiplayer.The whole damn thing is a conspiracy to milk cash out of us,remember when we all thought snes games cost too much?,at least they werent milking us for the internet,a gold subscription,the game,dlc and bastard online passes all just so you can get repeatedly killed over and over by a five year old modder,it wouldnt be so bad if you could actually get these achievements,if you dont play in the first week then you are screwed,unless its crap of doody or boringfield then you can be sure no one will be online until they shut the servers down and those achievements are unobtainable forever,someone needs to implement a system to get dead achievements some other way or let you get them either in single or multiplayer and not be forced to go online amongst the assholes.

Barad 02-20-2013 05:05 PM

I'm not too bothered, but I guess that's not fair for me to say as I haven't played a Tomb Raider game before and I understand the addition of multiplayer to this game has pissed a lot of people off lol but you guys never know, the multiplayer might actually be decent.

Gem87 02-22-2013 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B A R 4 D (Post 5588897)
I'm not too bothered, but I guess that's not fair for me to say as I haven't played a Tomb Raider game before and I understand the addition of multiplayer to this game has pissed a lot of people off lol but you guys never know, the multiplayer might actually be decent.

If it is going to be a "decent" multiplayer they could have done a brand-new game with it, is such as if they put team deathmatch (with guns..) in a sport game.. (maybe already exists..)
To me it has no sense putting Versus online in every game, i know that "multiplayer is the future" but not every game need it..
And also, why those achievements?
If it's a good multiplayer i'll play it also without them (especially without them I'll have more fun..)
So, they know that this "online" doesn't like to all and they gave those achievements so the "achievement hunter" or the "completionist" MUST play that multiplayer at least 20h..
This is one reason why I won't buy this game..
This is MY opinion, feel free to think different, every person has (I hope..) a brain in the head to think and decide what to do..

DEG23 02-22-2013 07:55 AM

It seems people are more pissed off about MP achievements than the MP itself:confused: I cancelled my preorder simply because of the inclusion of the MP. The fact that MP has never been in a Tomb Raider game before means that a large amount of time and resources would have been spent planning/building it. If it turns out there is still a lengthy/riveting SP experience then I may change my mind and buy it. (Probably won't touch the MP:p)

grimkillah 02-26-2013 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjdavies (Post 5577561)
Maybe for the MP achievements, they should do what Mass Effect 3 did.

You means to have just one achievement (Defender) out of the whole game that is MP only, so you have to play their MP or buy an Apple iPhone? no thanks. Dead Space 2 is way better, it doesn't have MP achievements so you are not forced to play MP if you don't want to.

WalterWhite 02-26-2013 06:11 AM

Like a few have said, a dash of multiplayer is one thing. This is quite a bit more than a dash as far as achievements are concerned. And what's worse is that the single player portion of the game is reviewing very well but everyone agrees the mulyiplayer is bad, so we hate it more before we even play it. Fifty hours is a decent amount of time for a single player game nowadays, but fifty hours on a bad multiplayer component? Keep it.

If they were going to force multiplayer into a Tomb Raider game they should have atleast gone with co-op maps. Atleast then they could have made some clever two-player puzzles and had a shot at it being decent. I feel comfortable speaking for everybody when I say: Nobody wanted this!

BIG L RETURNS 02-26-2013 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purge (Post 5530169)
Multiplayer in most games is pretty fun, so yeah, I'm happy with that decision.

HAHA nice troll

But no seriously. Looks like everyone is pretty damn upset.

Alright Crystal Dynamics, you can make it up to us. 50X experience opening weekend and you can fix this shit and we'll forget it every happened....maybe.

Fifa08Meister 02-26-2013 11:22 PM

The MP in this game ain't too bad IMO especially if you get a few of your mates together and boost the achievements kinda fun ;)

rapture23 02-26-2013 11:37 PM

The singleplayer only lasts so long so it's nice to get some longevity out of my game especially when I pay $60 for it. Other people might be ok with only getting 20hrs of gameplay for $60 but I'm not. I like the multiplayer. Yet again I don't really care about getting 1000g in this game. Even if I did want the 1000g if I couldn't handle MP I wouldn't get the game at all but I think not getting a game because they added more bang for your $$$ is a stupid reason not to get a game. MP is the future. (This is not a rebuttal to any one person's opinion. Evidenced by the fact that I did NOT quote anyone. This is my opinion and if you don't like that then that's okay I just don't want to hear your opinion about my opinion. I am not about to argue about this so I suggest that you don't try.)

TEAJUNKIES 02-27-2013 09:29 PM

I honestly can't stand it when MP is added to a game that should be purely SP campaign. I was put off instantly when the announced MP for Tomb Raider.

Developers get to excited about MP nowadays and add it without truly thinking about how it will impact the quality of the game. So much time and resources must be put into it that it spoils a lot of games. I still believe Mass Effect 3's bad ending was partly a result of putting time into MP instead of concentrating efforts on bringing the story to a proper conclusion.

As for MP achievements... Get rid entirely. The end.

Lavindathar 02-27-2013 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG L RETURNS (Post 5600104)
HAHA nice troll

But no seriously. Looks like everyone is pretty damn upset.

Guess I'm trolling then, as I'm glad they included MP. I'll try it, and if I like it ill continue playing it and enjoying it. If I dont like it, ill then make a decision as to whether I grind out the achievements, or I just dont play it.

So many people complain about MP achievements, but most of the time thats for one of two reasons :

a) Your not good enough to earn them legit
b) Your not good enough to earn them legit

Put MP achievements in, and dont make them easy to obtain. Then I can try to do something and actually achieve something, that others cant. Seems like this TR has done that, so im happy. I'll be proud of my 1000g, while a lot of people obviously wont attain it.

Daft thing is, your all slating the shit out of something youve not even tried.

You know, you might, dare I say this, like it.

cjdavies 02-28-2013 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grimkillah (Post 5599764)
You means to have just one achievement (Defender) out of the whole game that is MP only, so you have to play their MP or buy an Apple iPhone? no thanks. Dead Space 2 is way better, it doesn't have MP achievements so you are not forced to play MP if you don't want to.

Apple Iphone :confused: I have no idea what you are on about.

You don't have to play the MP for this either.

Hextech Raven 02-28-2013 05:12 PM

I personally dislike multi-player modes that are tacked on just for the sake of having a form of MP. The online usually dies four or five months after the game is released, and then it becomes wasted money and resources that could have been used to better the single player experience.

That's not to say that all of the tacked on online modes are terrible, but those gems are few and far between.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pined5551 (Post 5526253)
To be quite frank, I'm just about done with all forms of MP anyway. I simply don't engage with it at all anymore. The community (in general) is just packed with rude, annoying and largely unpleasant people and it's been a very long time since I've had a decent experience online.

I agree. I used to love talking to and playing with random people online, but now I try to stay away from it all.

Lavindathar 02-28-2013 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjdavies (Post 5605138)
Apple Iphone :confused: I have no idea what you are on about.

You don't have to play the MP for this either.

On Mass Effect 3 there was a multiplayer achievement called Defender. However, this could also be earnt by utilising an app that was released on IoS for Iphones and Ipads.

So technically, you didnt have to play multiplayer to earn it. You could use the app.


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