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Old 04-30-2012, 08:11 PM   #1
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Thumbs down We DESERVE a REFUND

This game is garbage. Anyone who says it's not is somehow affiliated to the designers (for marketing and loving support)...

For $19.90 AUD (which is equivelant to 1200 MSP) you can buy AT LEAST 2 FULL RETAIL titles that are not only finished and look amazing, not full of BASIC BETA TESTING BUGS & GLITCHES, but also contain 2000 achievement points (1000 per game).

So why apart from these basic bugs and glitches (that should have been fixed during beta testing - was it even beta tested? Sure doesn't feel like it) do we deserve a refund?

1. Trial version: Demos and trials for FULL RETAIL games that are 8gb in size are usually between 800-1500MB. This trial was the full game, full 1.82GB. Surely there is a limit for demos and trial games, ESPECIALLY when the trial is a half-arsed attempt at showing features of the game, it wasn't even the full first level. This alone COULD have been compressed, EASILY, to 500MB, easily....

2. Game isn't finished: at least month more coding was needed before it should have even gone into beta testing. Have the developers and coders even played through the game themselves? One can only hope the answer is no or else they would have seen what an abomonation they've created (and now released) and insisted much more work was needed before it would be released. It's fine (due to the day and age we live) for developers to make a game and release patches and updates, but at what point must we draw the line and say no matter how many patches we release, it won't fix something that's just not got the base code right, it needs more work before we release it.

3. Poor level design: The health system, good to see you go from carrying way too much health in the first level to scraping by on next to nothing for the rest of the game, but it's definitely important that they've included health bar upgrades (more max health) in spots where you really just wanted a health pack.

4. Enemies: I love camera angles bouncing around (as well as the character) because you've run from a group of enemies and bigger enemies, to try and knock them off one by one as oppossed to standing there and being in the middle of an attack, the enemy ignoring that fact and knocking you down/grabbing you/slamming you/etc and taking your health.
The lack information about enemies and what weapons work well/what they're weakness is/etc, well that's just dandy. Probably doesn't help all weapon combos are almost identical and it's merely the finishing graphic that changes.
The fact the enemies spawn in huge numbers and it's only the beginning of the game and to counter balance you haven't yet come across the upgrades, or lack thereof, that would help in fighting them, all while trying not to loose health or glitch about and end up stuck.

5. Upgrades/health/recharge: Other games have clicked on that allowing these things to recharge over time or killing an enemy and gaining a little recharge for the things works really well. This only brings back the point of beta testing and whether developers allowed themselves time to trial options like these, that not only enhance the gamer experience and make gaming more enjoyable all round, but would ultimately save the developers time trying to put 'pickups' for helath/mana/etc on individual maps, instead of knowing the right enemy/kill/health/rejuvenate ratio once and then applying different variations and combos to maps.

6. Sprint: Well I'm guessing this was taken out due to poor map design and glitches and it would have only further degraded the enjoyment of the game.

Bosses: even with bosses there's only so many times one can evade roll then shoot arrows or run in and take one hit then evade away again. Shouldn't the player/user be doing at least one and a half times the damage of what they're currently doing, at least to bosses?

I'm sure there's more, I just had to share (and ask for refund publicly) from my android mobile while the game sits there in pause and these thoughts are fresh in my head.

Care to share your thoughts on these points?
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:15 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meltinzone View Post
This game is garbage. Anyone who says it's not is somehow affiliated to the designers (for marketing and loving support)...

For $19.90 AUD (which is equivelant to 1200 MSP) you can buy AT LEAST 2 FULL RETAIL titles that are not only finished and look amazing, not full of BASIC BETA TESTING BUGS & GLITCHES, but also contain 2000 achievement points (1000 per game).

So why apart from these basic bugs and glitches (that should have been fixed during beta testing - was it even beta tested? Sure doesn't feel like it) do we deserve a refund?

1. Trial version: Demos and trials for FULL RETAIL games that are 8gb in size are usually between 800-1500MB. This trial was the full game, full 1.82GB. Surely there is a limit for demos and trial games, ESPECIALLY when the trial is a half-arsed attempt at showing features of the game, it wasn't even the full first level. This alone COULD have been compressed, EASILY, to 500MB, easily....

2. Game isn't finished: at least month more coding was needed before it should have even gone into beta testing. Have the developers and coders even played through the game themselves? One can only hope the answer is no or else they would have seen what an abomonation they've created (and now released) and insisted much more work was needed before it would be released. It's fine (due to the day and age we live) for developers to make a game and release patches and updates, but at what point must we draw the line and say no matter how many patches we release, it won't fix something that's just not got the base code right, it needs more work before we release it.

3. Poor level design: The health system, good to see you go from carrying way too much health in the first level to scraping by on next to nothing for the rest of the game, but it's definitely important that they've included health bar upgrades (more max health) in spots where you really just wanted a health pack.

4. Enemies: I love camera angles bouncing around (as well as the character) because you've run from a group of enemies and bigger enemies, to try and knock them off one by one as oppossed to standing there and being in the middle of an attack, the enemy ignoring that fact and knocking you down/grabbing you/slamming you/etc and taking your health.
The lack information about enemies and what weapons work well/what they're weakness is/etc, well that's just dandy. Probably doesn't help all weapon combos are almost identical and it's merely the finishing graphic that changes.
The fact the enemies spawn in huge numbers and it's only the beginning of the game and to counter balance you haven't yet come across the upgrades, or lack thereof, that would help in fighting them, all while trying not to loose health or glitch about and end up stuck.

5. Upgrades/health/recharge: Other games have clicked on that allowing these things to recharge over time or killing an enemy and gaining a little recharge for the things works really well. This only brings back the point of beta testing and whether developers allowed themselves time to trial options like these, that not only enhance the gamer experience and make gaming more enjoyable all round, but would ultimately save the developers time trying to put 'pickups' for helath/mana/etc on individual maps, instead of knowing the right enemy/kill/health/rejuvenate ratio once and then applying different variations and combos to maps.

6. Sprint: Well I'm guessing this was taken out due to poor map design and glitches and it would have only further degraded the enjoyment of the game.

Bosses: even with bosses there's only so many times one can evade roll then shoot arrows or run in and take one hit then evade away again. Shouldn't the player/user be doing at least one and a half times the damage of what they're currently doing, at least to bosses?

I'm sure there's more, I just had to share (and ask for refund publicly) from my android mobile while the game sits there in pause and these thoughts are fresh in my head.

Care to share your thoughts on these points?

read the terms before you buy your next arcade game and see that they cannot be refunded.

good luck!
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:10 AM   #3
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LOL. I love this game. If you are a noob, its your problem.
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:36 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meltinzone View Post
This game is garbage. Anyone who says it's not is somehow affiliated to the designers (for marketing and loving support)...

1. Trial version: Demos and trials for FULL RETAIL games that are 8gb in size are usually between 800-1500MB. This trial was the full game, full 1.82GB. Surely there is a limit for demos and trial games, ESPECIALLY when the trial is a half-arsed attempt at showing features of the game, it wasn't even the full first level. This alone COULD have been compressed, EASILY, to 500MB, easily....

Care to share your thoughts on these points?
You're shit out of late, mate.

Arcade demo sizes are the same as the full game. Only difference is, the full game unlocks everything where as the demo is limited. Purchasing the full version is like purchasing a key to unlock the remainder of the content.

That said, you should of played the demo and let that help you decide whether the game was worth a purchase or not.

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read the terms before you buy your next arcade game and see that they cannot be refunded.
You can get a refund, but it does take a bit of work.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:44 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Mastodon_Slayer View Post
LOL. I love this game. If you are a noob, its your problem.
Whilst I disagree with pretty much everything dude has said, it is a bit stupid to call him a noob. The game has been out 6 days everyone is still a noob ( which means newbie btw).

I keep hearing people talking about the camera on it and I personally have never seen a problem with it until last night, I was executing an enemy and the camera just started spinning out of control. But like I said in another thread, a patch has been confirmed to fix that and the glitched achievements.

Hopefully this patch will fix all the problems that some people have with it so they can enjoy the game as much as I do
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:09 PM   #6
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I thought that's why there were trial versions...to try before you buy.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:28 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by DROGTURIST View Post
I'm sorry, but those of you defending the camera have got to be meth heads. There's just no way you don't notice how incredibly poor it is. If you like it despite the camera, that's totally fine, but don't make shit up about how you "haven't had any issues with it." We all know you're bullshitting.
Wow, someone else who can totally dig where I'm coming from. I'm sure there's still a ton more who bought it, were deceived, have turned it off and never gone back, forget coming here to report the issues. Thanks mate for saying how it is!

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Originally Posted by ChickinOnaChain View Post
I thought that's why there were trial versions...to try before you buy.
I've gone over the trial/demo point several times already. That is the problem. If they let us play the first level, then we could have seen issues from the get go, like getting 'stuck/couldn't move' after being prompted to kick open the first gate. I mean how many experienced gamers did that alone happen to, albeit on the very FIRST gate in the full game, not the demo.
That's the problem in this case, the demo is nothing like the full game.

Plain and simple it was not beta tested, or it was and the testers need firing, or they reported these bugs and the reports were ignored. Either way, it's not good enough.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:25 AM   #8
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the thing is meltin no matter what game u play there r bugs games can b out for years nd there still b bugs look as wow or the fable series u kno how many games have glitched on me makin me start over like deathspank tov got to the end nd rudolf didnt show glitched on me im still gunna play through again yet it glitched horribly nd has not been fixed since it was released in 2010 lol no matter theres glitches any game u play if they always refunded games theyd never make money to work on the easier bugs in them if u dont like the game best thing u can do is juss not buy from the devolper and gears 2 my rank reset gears 3 rank medals ribbons nd progress on achievements were reset but it didnt stop me from playin nd goin bak nd gettin everything cuz ima fan nd kno games glitch alot seeing as ur a EXPERIANCED gamer u should kno a game brand new will have lots of bugs nd glitches nd should b able to deal with it nd not whine for a refund

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Old 05-01-2012, 09:44 AM   #9
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Reading these comments still make me want to buy it. I didn't think the demo was that bad.
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:13 AM   #10
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Ok meltinzone. I'll share some feedback on your points

1. The size of the download. I'd rather download the whole arcade game to try it because at least then if you like it you only have to press a button and the whole game downloads almost instantly. This is a good feature. If you dont like it then just delete it. It also makes sense for Microsoft to do this as instead of having a trial between 800-1500mb and having that as only a trial then having to delete it and download the whole game as a seperate file thats bigger seems a waste of resources especially with the amount of arcade games.

2. I don't believe most games are 100% complete when they get released in this day and age. Remember Test Drive Unlimited 2 it took them over 6 months to patch that. It feels like having all this "Online Fuctionality" can be used as an excuse for games developers to go you know what lets just release it our deadline for launch is coming up and we'll collect some feedback from the players as to what needs fixing. But at least now a days they can fix things. Games have always had glitches in them back in the 80's-90's they were less common but were still there.

3. The health system doesn't have anything to do with poor level design. It's a pretty linear game as you would except from a game of its type. I can say that I was surprised the first time I picked up a health upgrade and it didn't refill my health but there again it doesn't have to.

4. I didn't have many camera issues with this game, I had a few when i was too close to a wall and couldn't see anything but apart from that it was ok. As for getting hit by enemies while your making an attack if you roll while the animation is going on I've noticed he rolls after it completes but doesn't take damage.
The information about enemies, generally I find most action games don't tell you how to beat an enemy it's just something you have to experiment with for yourself and find something that works for you.

5. The regen issues after a bit of practice this isn't all that crucial. If anything it seems like they'd rather have the game be more challenging which is a good thing for an action game if it was a complete cakewalk what would be the point in playing it?

6. Sprint. Again something thats more akin to shooting games and some adventure games. In a game with relatively short sections of no enemies it would have been pointless to add the feature in.

And yes I do like this game and do not feel ripped off and no you dont have to shoot bosses with a crossbow just the first one and the one in the swamp all others can be taken down with melee. If your finding general mobs too hard try using the Hammer it does more damage and can easily hit multiple enemies.
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:55 PM   #11
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Reading these comments still make me want to buy it. I didn't think the demo was that bad.
I agree; I bought the game after trying the demo as well. that's the purpose of demos anyway, right? It's not perfect, in fact far from it.
Try before you buy; I learned that the hard way buying absolute crap just because it looked good or was on sale. As with Skyrim after they patched it I'm sure these issues will be at least improved.
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:21 PM   #12
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I'm sorry, but those of you defending the camera have got to be meth heads. There's just no way you don't notice how incredibly poor it is, and that alone is reason enough to hate this game for some folks. If you like it despite the camera, that's totally fine, but don't make shit up about how you "haven't had any issues with it." We all know you're bullshitting.
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:48 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Mastodon_Slayer View Post
LOL. I love this game. If you are a noob, its your problem.
yeah the game isn't OMG you have to buy this amazing but good in its own way there are FAR worse games on the xbl arcade.

o and a little bit of skill goes a long way in making a game more fun, noobs tend to hate games that they do bad at and blame the game, no no noob its your fault

slayer knows what I'm talking about
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:35 PM   #14
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meltinzone proper butt hurt cause he feels ripped off so he tears into the game to make himself feel less ripped off.

Yeah camera is abit poor but ive played much worse on XBLA. This is a great GoW clone and well worth the 1200msp. Next time look into things a little more than just playing a 5 minute demo ie youtube previews etc. All games have the odd bug or two and no game is ever "finished", dont like it get employed with the devs and do something about it. Till then choose wisely or just shut up

No one will here you voice so deal with it.
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:51 PM   #15
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Is it the annoying way the camera zooms in when you do a Rage Kill then zooms out and all the enemies have surrounded you that people have issues with? I see no other camera issues, but I've been playing 3rd person games like these for years, and rotating cameras while fighting has become normal to me.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:45 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rezzurekted View Post
he feels ripped off so he tears into the game to make himself feel less ripped off. Yeah camera is abit poor but ive played much worse on XBLA. This is a great GoW clone. dont like it get employed with the devs and do something about it. Till then choose wisely or just shut up No one will here you voice so deal with it.
By ripping into the game, you mean providing information that is FACT based and accurately depicts what people should expect when they play the full version, the trial is deceptive. As for being a GOW clone, EPICLOLZzzz. You clearly haven't played at least one of the games, or your memories of one of the games are very hazey. As for getting employed with the devs, why would someone want to after seeing that abombonation? you should strive to be better and further your own skills, what could one possibly hope to learn from these devs? One could only hope these developers go their own way and get jobs with other companies to futher thei own learning and skill set, then when they've got some decent experience and better skills they can reunite and try again. As for choosing wisely? One doesn't expect a demo/trial to be one thing and then the full game to be the complete opposite. Did you ever buy anything before youtube reviews and videos? C'mon man, seriously, an unfinished game shouldn't be on the marketplace, fullstop. That falls back on MS.
Also, hear me you did, or else you wouldn't have replied, but here is not the same as hear. an people have gotten poor with grammar, in fact it's beyone poor.

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Originally Posted by Assapopulas View Post
and then quote a lot in the very same post lol
You should've played the trial man.
I think it's funny how you can't read, I've said many times I bought the game based on the trial/demo and it is a very decitful one at that. As for quoting, that's why you trim the quote down and leave in the quote what you're responding to. It makes it easy for people skim reading and saves them re-reading everyones post many times over. You obviously wouldn't need to quote if it was a thread with only two participants....

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Originally Posted by Gageamatron View Post
It's really not as bad as people are saying.
What isn't? 'Just' the camera? or the plethora of things I mentiones in the OP?

Last edited by rekikire; 05-07-2012 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:47 AM   #17
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Guys, is it really necessary to quote that much?

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Originally Posted by i fist brown i View Post
read the terms before you buy your next arcade game
I'm well aware of the terms for 'finished' 'ready for release with minor patches' arcade games, but this abomonation, well it falls into a whole category of its own....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastodon_Slayer View Post
LOL. I love this game. If you are a noob, its your problem.
How does giving detailed (and more than justified) criticism and explanations of a multitude of bugs and problems make me a noob?
Is it because I'm knowledgable and trying to point out problems to the developers and what they can do differently next time (and hopefully patch and fix). Or because informing the xbox community of these issues within this game means lack of money in Microsofts pocket, due to people making an informed decision about what to currently expect when playing the game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iBuzz7S View Post
Arcade demo sizes are the same as the full game. Only difference is, the full game unlocks everything where as the demo is limited. Purchasing the full version is like purchasing a key to unlock the remainder of the content.

you should of played the demo

You can get a refund, but it does take a bit of work.
Well with arcade games getting this big in size and the 'trial' part so dismally pythetic and small, not to mention much less buggy (at least in this instance), perhaps its time for microsoft to set some new rules for developers. As for the demo, I did play, perhaps I didn't make that clear, sorry. Had we actually had a chance to play the first level, well we could have seen how bad it really was, but all we get to play is some patched piece, which is nothing like the full game itself. Demo had me relatively pleased, full game was nothing like the demo. This is misleading and leaves people annoyed.

As for the refund, is it really worth the hassle when dealing with microsoft? In this case, probably, it's the only game in recent memory dating back years, that I've been so mislead by that I felt a refund would be justified, and I've played a lot of garbage on more than one console and account.


Just to add, you all do realise this costs the same amount of points as something like Orcs Must Die, don't you? I mean can anyone seriously compare the two games? Orcs Must Die is a finished game and on a whole other level, and thats just the first 1200MSP one that springs to mind.

Now do you see how experienced gamers feel ripped off by this game and others like it?
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Old 05-29-2012, 06:44 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by i fist brown i View Post
read the terms before you buy your next arcade game and see that they cannot be refunded.

good luck!
Actually they can. I just got a refund for an arcade game today, a full 1600 MSP added to my account.
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Old 06-02-2012, 12:24 PM   #19
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Actually they can. I just got a refund for an arcade game today, a full 1600 MSP added to my account.
For what game fella and how did you go about it?

Wouldn't mind a refund on that pos Warlords game thats broke as fu ck.
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Old 06-10-2012, 10:20 PM   #20
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For what game fella and how did you go about it?

Wouldn't mind a refund on that pos Warlords game thats broke as fu ck.
he had to have gotten it for minecraft. they were handing out refunds for ppl who had bought the game day 1 because something wasnt posted in the description (spit sceen is only available for hdtv players) and ppl used this as an opportunity to get they're 1600 back and to get a free game.

its not like he bought a game he disliked, or wasnt complete and he just called up microsoft demanded a refund and got it.

I stand by my original statement. Read the terms of service before you purchase anything off the dashboard, because they rarely give you refunds.
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Old 06-13-2012, 06:28 PM   #21
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What's more important is if your country's consumer protection laws are on your side or Microsoft's. My country's laws don't give a fuck about Microsoft's little "no refunds" policy - they have to give me my money back if I have a valid complaint. For example, I once forced Microsoft to refund every XBLA game I own because my 360 broke and they wouldn't work offline on the new console. This was before license transfer and all that, of course.

I feel it's pretty important for people to know things like this and not just blindly believe greedy corporations.
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:36 AM   #22
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i honestly love the game only problem is the last 2 achievements r glitched but ill wait for em to b fixed its not like the game is hard i think it was well worth 20$ nd hope they make a full game like it but yes camera angles suck other then those 2 problems id still give it a 4/5 "obese on you"

nd meltin how about finishin the game before talkin all this junk u killed one boss acordin to ur achieves the game comes more easly to u the more time u put in lmao u learn how to evade how to kill each boss im guessin ur on wodan who ur not suppose to melee lmao read into things before going nuts on a game being bad wen it rele isnt tht bad juss different from ur other hack nd slash by juss a lil i hope they make more like this

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Old 05-01-2012, 05:56 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by obese View Post
i think it was well worth 20$ nd hope they make a full game like it but yes camera angles suck other then those 2 problems id still give it a 4/5 "obese on you"

nd meltin how about finishin the game before talkin all this junk u killed one boss acordin to ur achieves the game comes more easly to u the more time u put in lmao u learn how to evade how to kill each boss im guessin ur on wodan who ur not suppose to melee lmao read into things before going nuts on a game being bad wen it rele isnt tht bad
First off, you're reading into things, what achievements say doesn't mean jack. I'm an old school gamer and know how to beat bosses and hence why I went into detail in the OP about how you shouldn't have to 'shoot' arrows forever, etc. But that's cool, you can assume I got stuck and came to rag on it over that.
As for it coming more easy to you? Really? Seriously what doesn't come more easy to you the more time you spend doing it? The question becomes can you be bothered putting up with all the bugs and glitches just so it 'comes more easy to you'? If you play the game for the first time and for the most part it hasn't 'come easy' to you in the first five minutes either you're an inexperienced gamer or you can't grasp the controls cause you're totally blazed out of your mind.

As you can read in the OP I'm not 'going nuts' over that. I'm simply pointing out BASIC bugs that should have been fixed while it was in some form of beta testing. By all means if you wish to rate the game 4/5 and think there's only 2 things wrong with it (achievements and camera), then I'm happy for you having spent $20. However if you're simply blinded by the 'shock and awe' of cut off limbs and blood spirting from corpses, then perhaps play some more games and see how other games pull it off without the plethora of bugs in the released version of the game, you said you'd like to see more games like it (full retail version), well there's already ones out there.

For me personally, I can see there's way more than 2 things wrong, though to be fair, perhaps it's my coding background that allows me to see these bugs more easily...
Either way, for experienced gamers, I bet they'll be grateful for this warning and no doubt save themselves $20.
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:29 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by meltinzone View Post
This game is garbage. Anyone who says it's not is somehow affiliated to the designers (for marketing and loving support)...
You should be grateful anyone wanted to read all your "valid points" when you start a thread like this...

First of all you start with a blatant derogatory remark about the game. Then you have the nerve to say anyone who doesn't agree with you is either getting paid or affiliated with the designers. This is the definition of troll.

Maybe you're paying others to come on this forum and agree with you? See how ridiculous that sounds?
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