PlaystationTrophies Got a news tip? tips@x360a.org
 
Username
Password
 

Go Back   XboxAchievements.com > Xbox 360 Retail Games > Shooter > Call of Duty: Black Ops II
Subscribe    Donate
Call of Duty: Black Ops II
Quick links
Latest news
Jul 23, 2015 Call of Duty: Black Ops II Now Most Requested Game for Xbox One Backwards Compatibility
Apr 21, 2015 This Week's Deals with Gold Are All Call of Duty
Apr 07, 2015 Is Activision Teasing Call of Duty: Black Ops 3?
Sep 22, 2014 Activision Lawyer Dismisses Dictator's Claims Against Call of Duty as "Absurd"
Jul 16, 2014 Former Dictator Suing Activision For Call of Duty: Black Ops II Appearance

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-06-2012, 06:01 PM   #1
Hoborg
Banned User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,210


Awards Showcase 1,000 Posts
Total Awards: 1 (more» ...)
What's so wrong with swastikas in the emblem editor?

I really think this deserves to be brought up. I don't understand why there is this comparatively unfounded hysteria regarding Nazi Germany.

Why is it perfectly okay for someone to make an emblem of the Soviet union when they were responsible for over 90 million deaths (mostly civilians) in the 20th century. The Nazis never came close to that, they killed about 10 million.

Setting that aside for one second, let's compare the difference between the Shutzstaffel (SS) and the Nazi emblem. The SS emblem as you know is the typical two S letters put close together resembling lightning bolts. In contrast, the Nazi flag is not a military symbol, it's political representing Germany as a country in that particular period of history.

I'm a little bit out of the loop here but is the SS symbol banned too? If so why? The SS were a special branch of the military personally responsible for Hitler's safety and some of the most skilled fighters in the second world war. As far as I know, all other military symbols (though perhaps not as recognizable) are allowed in the editor. This is hypocritical. The SS and the Nazi's from a historic point of view has generated tons of profits for Activision because it is the very foundation of their product.

Doesn't it seem strange to you that they would ban users from creating such historic emblems when they are allowed to play members of this faction in the older games in multiplayer?

Further, the Nazi swastika is the only political flag that is banned in the editor. I've seen a bunch of Confederate flags, I don't think there is a policy for banning those which would be highly offensive to blacks.

Also I don't buy the argument that it is per se offensive. That is hypocritical. Just look at the facts; 10 million people killed, a majority Russians and Jews vs nearly 100 million people killed. People need to be more rational. The communist flags ought to be more offensive because those factions have done way more harm to humanity than the Nazi's could ever dream of.

Please discuss and keep it civil.
Hoborg is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 06:10 PM   #2
Rivercurse
 
Rivercurse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: London
Posts: 2,661

Gamertag: Rivercurse

Awards Showcase 2,500 Posts   Over Achiever - Bronze   Donator - Level 1
Total Awards: 3 (more» ...)
Not Jewish, are you Hoborg?

Can see this thread descending fast.
__________________
Rivercurse is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 12:42 AM   #3
StayonTarget
Moderator & CET Lead
 
StayonTarget's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: California
Posts: 9,116

Gamertag: TheStayonTarget

Awards Showcase The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!   The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!   The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!   The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!   The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!   The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!   The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!   The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!   The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!   The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!   The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!   The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!
Total Awards: 41 (more» ...)
I'm sorry, you are a f*cking idiot. Who type of insensitive idiot asks that?

And I believe that is the same thing I responded with when this thread was on the Black Ops forum.
__________________


Thanks to Rajeanero for the sig!

Last edited by StayonTarget; 12-07-2012 at 12:52 AM.
StayonTarget is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 01:00 AM   #4
Hoborg
Banned User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,210


Awards Showcase 1,000 Posts
Total Awards: 1 (more» ...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by StayonTarget View Post
I'm sorry, you are a f*cking idiot. Who type of insensitive idiot asks that?

And I believe that is the same thing I responded with when this thread was on the Black Ops forum.
You're being irrational and guided by purely cultural and emotional bias. Genocide has occurred since Mankind organized into larger societies. What makes the one targeting the Jewish people so special as to warrant extra consideration above any other historic incidence?

Why are you not offended by flags of the USSR? 90 million killed under communist rule doesn't move you? What kind "insensitive idiot" wouldn't want both flags to be banned.

Last edited by Hoborg; 12-07-2012 at 01:05 AM.
Hoborg is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 01:20 AM   #5
StayonTarget
Moderator & CET Lead
 
StayonTarget's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: California
Posts: 9,116

Gamertag: TheStayonTarget

Awards Showcase The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!   The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!   The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!   The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!   The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!   The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!   The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!   The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!   The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!   The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!   The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!   The Indomitable DerpleHoff Award!
Total Awards: 41 (more» ...)
The USSR was an empire, but they didn't gas millions of people based on their religion, sexual preference, or skin color. The red, black, and white swastika is the symbol for Nazis. An organization that was full of cold blooded murderers.

And interest in Nazi Germany is one thing. How Hitler came to power and all of that is an interesting subject. But the swastika is representing hate. Period. End of discussion. Sheer hate and the fact that you don't have a problem with it is just pathetic. I've had family fight in WW2. So I'm not some kid who is just trying to stand tall. I'll leave you with that. I'm not going to spend any more time talking to fools.
__________________


Thanks to Rajeanero for the sig!
StayonTarget is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 01:27 AM   #6
Hoborg
Banned User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,210


Awards Showcase 1,000 Posts
Total Awards: 1 (more» ...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by StayonTarget View Post
The USSR was an empire, but they didn't gas millions of people based on their religion, sexual preference, or skin color. The red, black, and white swastika is the symbol for Nazis. An organization that was full of cold blooded murderers.

And interest in Nazi Germany is one thing. How Hitler came to power and all of that is an interesting subject. But the swastika is representing hate. Period. End of discussion. Sheer hate and the fact that you don't have a problem with it is just pathetic. I've had family fight in WW2. So I'm not some kid who is just trying to stand tall. I'll leave you with that. I'm not going to spend any more time talking to fools.
You are actually factually incorrect. The communists did kill based on factors such as race, and religion. In fact, religious devotees were persecuted under the Soviet union. Likewise, there were many purges based on race which you can read about here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocid...y#Soviet_Union

You are also incorrect about the origin and Hitler's intentions with the swastika.

It's not exclusively a symbol of hate. Your arguments are so rife with red herrings it makes it really hard to take you seriously. Any discussion is just undermined by your appeals to emotion by your vivid language.
Hoborg is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 06:11 PM   #7
Burnout x360a
 
Burnout x360a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posts: 7,475

Gamertag: M1KE 08

Awards Showcase Submit - Bronze   Donator - Level 1   5,000 Posts
Total Awards: 3 (more» ...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoborg View Post
Please discuss and keep it civil.
I'm going to be honest and say that's asking for a lot with this type of topic.
__________________


^ By Xerofox, thanks!
Twitter lSteam

Burnout x360a is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 06:22 PM   #8
II Mortis II
 
II Mortis II's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Vantaa
Posts: 646

Gamertag: ll Mortis ll

Awards Showcase x360a Representer (Retired)   Word of Mouth (Retired)
Total Awards: 2 (more» ...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoborg View Post
Please discuss and keep it civil.
This is not a topic of civility.

The swastika originated as a symbol of peace in religions such as Buddhism. Swastika literally means "to be good". However, since then the symbol is more widely recognised as one of racism and mass genocide.
__________________
Credit to DethHolly for the signature pic.
II Mortis II is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 06:28 PM   #9
YorkusRex
 
YorkusRex's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 179

Gamertag: YorkusRex
There is a movement in several countries to outlaw the Red Star and Hammer and Sickle as symbols of Soviet occupation. Some countries have already enacted those laws.

I expect to see game-related bans of these symbols in the future.
__________________
Lords of Sarcasm



"He would have finished him off then and there, but pity stayed his hand. It's a pity I've run out of bullets, he thought, as he went back up the tunnel..."
YorkusRex is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 06:33 PM   #10
Sanchezz4387
 
Sanchezz4387's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 211

Gamertag: Sanchezz4387
What the real question should be is why would anybody want an emblem of a swastika?

i don't agree with hysterical banning or reporting of penises or vaginas or gruesome pictures...BUT emblems of such historical tragedy and humanity at its lowest shouldn't be glorified in a game...world at war had them in as it was obviously a story about the german/russian battle and when they are used to depict history i never have objections, education is vital.....but why would a person like you or me have one as our player emblems other than to provoke reactions and cause anger?

i do see your point about the soviet symbol and i guess it could be a lack of education that people don't realize Stalin probably was more of a monster than Hitler, but when all is said and done the Nazis openly hated the Jews and nearly wiped them out of extinction and that is exactly why the symbol of the nazi party causes such controversy.
__________________
[/url]
Sanchezz4387 is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 07:38 PM   #11
trymemf
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Sweden
Posts: 380

Gamertag: L22 Furious
Please just shut down the thread pls mod
__________________
ROADHOUSE.
trymemf is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 07:40 PM   #12
trymemf
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Sweden
Posts: 380

Gamertag: L22 Furious
Goodbue whole x360 forums, alll it will do is just cause everyone to sit in this thread and discuss -.-
__________________
ROADHOUSE.
trymemf is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 07:44 PM   #13
THE DEADLY DOG
Woof
 
THE DEADLY DOG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 6,980
Send a message via AIM to THE DEADLY DOG

Gamertag: THE DEADLY DOG

Awards Showcase The Helping Hand - Bronze   Staff - Community Team - Moderator   Over Achiever - Bronze   Sister-Site Member   Super Heroes Challenge Club - Tier 1   Achievement Guide - Emerald   Road Map - Emerald   XBA Master Chief Collection Club - Tier 3   Community Gaming - Silver   5,000 Posts   Xbox One Maximum Clubs Apprentice   Micro Guide - Diamond
Total Awards: 23 (more» ...)
This is a most interesting topic as I firmly agree with the OP on the basis of allowing a swastika in its most basic form.

Take for example the American flag. In countries now if you are to adorn, promote, or even possess an American flag it could be seen as the ultimate form of disrespect to your country, your government, or your own countrymen and women.

If you truly wanted to expand the argument look at what Mao did under the Chinese flag and the arguably hundreds of millions that died there.

My philosophy is this. If you take the original swastika without the coloring, and the unique design aspects added by the Nazis there is no harm/no foul in it. But to want to proudly adorn one because you believe it violates your own freedoms is foolish and disrespectful to the millions that died under it.
__________________

About Me (XBA Interview) | Explore Max Clubs | Create the G&RMs of the Future | Ultimate XBA FAQ
Shutdown Server List | My Twitch

A great writer borrows from many sources to create their own work. A poor writer borrows from many sources and creates nothing original.
THE DEADLY DOG is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 09:13 PM   #14
wo ai ni xx
 
wo ai ni xx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Scotland!! :D
Posts: 799

Gamertag: ne daisuki desu
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE DEADLY DOG View Post
My philosophy is this. If you take the original swastika without the coloring, and the unique design aspects added by the Nazis there is no harm/no foul in it. But to want to proudly adorn one because you believe it violates your own freedoms is foolish and disrespectful to the millions that died under it.
This, I like the swastika for what it was before it was used in Nazi symbolism, as such I have nothing against the general use of it, but brandishing it upon the red and white background is where it becomes disrespectful.

As for all the communism...well, that's a dark topic that can only go downhill, there's really no point in trying to bring that up...

Quote:
I can see why people have a problem with others having emblems and stuff like this but its just a picture. I don't see why any one would go out of their way to report the person or message them as you just allowed it to effect you for that short period of time. You should just look at it and be like oh go you and then look away.
With Treyarch actually policing their report system now, I will happily take those 3 seconds to press a button a couple of times, the emblem editor is there for you to express your creativity or your adoration of something you love, not to deliberately try and piss off millions of people
__________________
smile!!
Wo ai ni!! ^.^
<3

wo ai ni xx is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 11:45 PM   #15
Rickmassacre
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Manchester
Posts: 623

Gamertag: Rickmassacre
you're actually serious..
__________________
nope no signature here
Rickmassacre is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 07:54 PM   #16
Nathan WV10
 
Nathan WV10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: UK, England, West Midlands, Wolverhampton
Posts: 1,280

Gamertag: x Nathan Wv10 x

Awards Showcase Donator - Level 1   1,000 Posts
Total Awards: 2 (more» ...)
I can see why people have a problem with others having emblems and stuff like this but its just a picture. I don't see why any one would go out of their way to report the person or message them as you just allowed it to effect you for that short period of time. You should just look at it and be like oh go you and then look away.
__________________
Nathan WV10 is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 09:56 PM   #17
iBuzz7S
 
iBuzz7S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Down Under (Sydney, Australia)
Posts: 8,716


Awards Showcase 5,000 Posts   Submit - Bronze   Donator - Level 2
Total Awards: 3 (more» ...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by II Mortis II View Post
The swastika originated as a symbol of peace in religions such as Buddhism. Swastika literally means "to be good".
Too bad that it will never be known as that ever again. When people think swastika, they think of Germany and Hitler.

Stupid fucking world we live in.
__________________
iBuzz7S is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 10:01 PM   #18
CYBER GRIMM
 
CYBER GRIMM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: london uk
Posts: 386

Gamertag: TRINITY KRYSTAL
Quote:
Originally Posted by iBuzz7S View Post
Too bad that it will never be known as that ever again. When people think swastika, they think of Germany and Hitler.

Stupid fucking world we live in.
my thoughts exactly
__________________



if you came to kill me then you should have brought a bigger gun

CYBER GRIMM is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 09:48 PM   #19
CYBER GRIMM
 
CYBER GRIMM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: london uk
Posts: 386

Gamertag: TRINITY KRYSTAL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoborg View Post
I really think this deserves to be brought up. I don't understand why there is this comparatively unfounded hysteria regarding Nazi Germany.

Why is it perfectly okay for someone to make an emblem of the Soviet union when they were responsible for over 90 million deaths (mostly civilians) in the 20th century. The Nazis never came close to that, they killed about 10 million.

Setting that aside for one second, let's compare the difference between the Shutzstaffel (SS) and the Nazi emblem. The SS emblem as you know is the typical two S letters put close together resembling lightning bolts. In contrast, the Nazi flag is not a military symbol, it's political representing Germany as a country in that particular period of history.

I'm a little bit out of the loop here but is the SS symbol banned too? If so why? The SS were a special branch of the military personally responsible for Hitler's safety and some of the most skilled fighters in the second world war. As far as I know, all other military symbols (though perhaps not as recognizable) are allowed in the editor. This is hypocritical. The SS and the Nazi's from a historic point of view has generated tons of profits for Activision because it is the very foundation of their product.

Doesn't it seem strange to you that they would ban users from creating such historic emblems when they are allowed to play members of this faction in the older games in multiplayer?

Further, the Nazi swastika is the only political flag that is banned in the editor. I've seen a bunch of Confederate flags, I don't think there is a policy for banning those which would be highly offensive to blacks.

Also I don't buy the argument that it is per se offensive. That is hypocritical. Just look at the facts; 10 million people killed, a majority Russians and Jews vs nearly 100 million people killed. People need to be more rational. The communist flags ought to be more offensive because those factions have done way more harm to humanity than the Nazi's could ever dream of.

Please discuss and keep it civil.
the difference is the impact that the nazi flag had on the rest of the world. i have german friends who want nothing more than to forget that period in time ever happend. the fact there are immature ppl out there who think its amussing or do not understand the symbol on the flag due to ignorance amazes me. if and i find such an emblem you can be assured its reported there and then.
__________________



if you came to kill me then you should have brought a bigger gun

CYBER GRIMM is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 11:09 PM   #20
Ceris
 
Ceris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,566

Gamertag: Ceris

Awards Showcase 2,500 Posts   CABS Beta Tester   Community Gaming - Bronze   Defeat in the Cross-Site (GSL 12 vs THL 5)   XBA Promoter   Staff Club - Ceris   Over Achiever - Bronze
Total Awards: 7 (more» ...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoborg View Post
I really think this deserves to be brought up. I don't understand why there is this comparatively unfounded hysteria regarding Nazi Germany.

Why is it perfectly okay for someone to make an emblem of the Soviet union when they were responsible for over 90 million deaths (mostly civilians) in the 20th century. The Nazis never came close to that, they killed about 10 million.

Setting that aside for one second, let's compare the difference between the Shutzstaffel (SS) and the Nazi emblem. The SS emblem as you know is the typical two S letters put close together resembling lightning bolts. In contrast, the Nazi flag is not a military symbol, it's political representing Germany as a country in that particular period of history.

I'm a little bit out of the loop here but is the SS symbol banned too? If so why? The SS were a special branch of the military personally responsible for Hitler's safety and some of the most skilled fighters in the second world war. As far as I know, all other military symbols (though perhaps not as recognizable) are allowed in the editor. This is hypocritical. The SS and the Nazi's from a historic point of view has generated tons of profits for Activision because it is the very foundation of their product.

Doesn't it seem strange to you that they would ban users from creating such historic emblems when they are allowed to play members of this faction in the older games in multiplayer?

Further, the Nazi swastika is the only political flag that is banned in the editor. I've seen a bunch of Confederate flags, I don't think there is a policy for banning those which would be highly offensive to blacks.

Also I don't buy the argument that it is per se offensive. That is hypocritical. Just look at the facts; 10 million people killed, a majority Russians and Jews vs nearly 100 million people killed. People need to be more rational. The communist flags ought to be more offensive because those factions have done way more harm to humanity than the Nazi's could ever dream of.

Please discuss and keep it civil.
This is because the Swastika drawn as it was by Nazi Germany is a modern symbol of not only hate, but as the symbol representing the group that caused mass murder because of this hate. You compared it to the Confederate flag. IMO! The Confederate flag isn't as offensive because, while ruled by only hate, but also a political reason. They were trying to break away from the Union to have their own political freedom to do as they please. Nazi Germany basically killed people just out of hate.

Can't say much about the USSR symbol as I have less knowledge about it. But again, the USSR did it not out of hate but political reasons. Germany didn't have to cause the Holocaust. It didn't benefit them politically.

Counter arguement to those who say they shouldn't be banned in emblem editor. By putting that as your emblem, you are using the swastika to either A) Be used as a symbol to represent yourself or B) Give your support to the people who caused the Holocaust. You can't say "remove them from the game overall then" because in the case mentioned above with Der Riese, It's used to show that this is Nazi Germany's work! Not to show support to their cause.



@KFZ Scrubs: I have no idea. I loaded up Favela recently and the portraits in question are still there.
__________________

Last edited by Ceris; 12-06-2012 at 11:15 PM.
Ceris is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 09:20 AM   #21
Nerdz0r
 
Nerdz0r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,058

Gamertag: BodrumKebab

Awards Showcase 1,000 Posts
Total Awards: 1 (more» ...)
The problem is people are fucking sheep.

What if I used the Buddhist swastika? Would that get me banned? Might even try it.

Last edited by Nerdz0r; 12-07-2012 at 09:31 AM.
Nerdz0r is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 10:02 PM.