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Old 12-06-2012, 06:01 PM   #1
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What's so wrong with swastikas in the emblem editor?

I really think this deserves to be brought up. I don't understand why there is this comparatively unfounded hysteria regarding Nazi Germany.

Why is it perfectly okay for someone to make an emblem of the Soviet union when they were responsible for over 90 million deaths (mostly civilians) in the 20th century. The Nazis never came close to that, they killed about 10 million.

Setting that aside for one second, let's compare the difference between the Shutzstaffel (SS) and the Nazi emblem. The SS emblem as you know is the typical two S letters put close together resembling lightning bolts. In contrast, the Nazi flag is not a military symbol, it's political representing Germany as a country in that particular period of history.

I'm a little bit out of the loop here but is the SS symbol banned too? If so why? The SS were a special branch of the military personally responsible for Hitler's safety and some of the most skilled fighters in the second world war. As far as I know, all other military symbols (though perhaps not as recognizable) are allowed in the editor. This is hypocritical. The SS and the Nazi's from a historic point of view has generated tons of profits for Activision because it is the very foundation of their product.

Doesn't it seem strange to you that they would ban users from creating such historic emblems when they are allowed to play members of this faction in the older games in multiplayer?

Further, the Nazi swastika is the only political flag that is banned in the editor. I've seen a bunch of Confederate flags, I don't think there is a policy for banning those which would be highly offensive to blacks.

Also I don't buy the argument that it is per se offensive. That is hypocritical. Just look at the facts; 10 million people killed, a majority Russians and Jews vs nearly 100 million people killed. People need to be more rational. The communist flags ought to be more offensive because those factions have done way more harm to humanity than the Nazi's could ever dream of.

Please discuss and keep it civil.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:10 PM   #2
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Not Jewish, are you Hoborg?

Can see this thread descending fast.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:42 AM   #3
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I'm sorry, you are a f*cking idiot. Who type of insensitive idiot asks that?

And I believe that is the same thing I responded with when this thread was on the Black Ops forum.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:00 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by StayonTarget View Post
I'm sorry, you are a f*cking idiot. Who type of insensitive idiot asks that?

And I believe that is the same thing I responded with when this thread was on the Black Ops forum.
You're being irrational and guided by purely cultural and emotional bias. Genocide has occurred since Mankind organized into larger societies. What makes the one targeting the Jewish people so special as to warrant extra consideration above any other historic incidence?

Why are you not offended by flags of the USSR? 90 million killed under communist rule doesn't move you? What kind "insensitive idiot" wouldn't want both flags to be banned.

Last edited by Hoborg; 12-07-2012 at 01:05 AM.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:20 AM   #5
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The USSR was an empire, but they didn't gas millions of people based on their religion, sexual preference, or skin color. The red, black, and white swastika is the symbol for Nazis. An organization that was full of cold blooded murderers.

And interest in Nazi Germany is one thing. How Hitler came to power and all of that is an interesting subject. But the swastika is representing hate. Period. End of discussion. Sheer hate and the fact that you don't have a problem with it is just pathetic. I've had family fight in WW2. So I'm not some kid who is just trying to stand tall. I'll leave you with that. I'm not going to spend any more time talking to fools.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:27 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by StayonTarget View Post
The USSR was an empire, but they didn't gas millions of people based on their religion, sexual preference, or skin color. The red, black, and white swastika is the symbol for Nazis. An organization that was full of cold blooded murderers.

And interest in Nazi Germany is one thing. How Hitler came to power and all of that is an interesting subject. But the swastika is representing hate. Period. End of discussion. Sheer hate and the fact that you don't have a problem with it is just pathetic. I've had family fight in WW2. So I'm not some kid who is just trying to stand tall. I'll leave you with that. I'm not going to spend any more time talking to fools.
You are actually factually incorrect. The communists did kill based on factors such as race, and religion. In fact, religious devotees were persecuted under the Soviet union. Likewise, there were many purges based on race which you can read about here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocid...y#Soviet_Union

You are also incorrect about the origin and Hitler's intentions with the swastika.

It's not exclusively a symbol of hate. Your arguments are so rife with red herrings it makes it really hard to take you seriously. Any discussion is just undermined by your appeals to emotion by your vivid language.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:11 PM   #7
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Please discuss and keep it civil.
I'm going to be honest and say that's asking for a lot with this type of topic.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoborg View Post
Please discuss and keep it civil.
This is not a topic of civility.

The swastika originated as a symbol of peace in religions such as Buddhism. Swastika literally means "to be good". However, since then the symbol is more widely recognised as one of racism and mass genocide.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:28 PM   #9
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There is a movement in several countries to outlaw the Red Star and Hammer and Sickle as symbols of Soviet occupation. Some countries have already enacted those laws.

I expect to see game-related bans of these symbols in the future.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:33 PM   #10
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What the real question should be is why would anybody want an emblem of a swastika?

i don't agree with hysterical banning or reporting of penises or vaginas or gruesome pictures...BUT emblems of such historical tragedy and humanity at its lowest shouldn't be glorified in a game...world at war had them in as it was obviously a story about the german/russian battle and when they are used to depict history i never have objections, education is vital.....but why would a person like you or me have one as our player emblems other than to provoke reactions and cause anger?

i do see your point about the soviet symbol and i guess it could be a lack of education that people don't realize Stalin probably was more of a monster than Hitler, but when all is said and done the Nazis openly hated the Jews and nearly wiped them out of extinction and that is exactly why the symbol of the nazi party causes such controversy.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:38 PM   #11
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Please just shut down the thread pls mod
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:40 PM   #12
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Goodbue whole x360 forums, alll it will do is just cause everyone to sit in this thread and discuss -.-
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:44 PM   #13
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This is a most interesting topic as I firmly agree with the OP on the basis of allowing a swastika in its most basic form.

Take for example the American flag. In countries now if you are to adorn, promote, or even possess an American flag it could be seen as the ultimate form of disrespect to your country, your government, or your own countrymen and women.

If you truly wanted to expand the argument look at what Mao did under the Chinese flag and the arguably hundreds of millions that died there.

My philosophy is this. If you take the original swastika without the coloring, and the unique design aspects added by the Nazis there is no harm/no foul in it. But to want to proudly adorn one because you believe it violates your own freedoms is foolish and disrespectful to the millions that died under it.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE DEADLY DOG View Post
My philosophy is this. If you take the original swastika without the coloring, and the unique design aspects added by the Nazis there is no harm/no foul in it. But to want to proudly adorn one because you believe it violates your own freedoms is foolish and disrespectful to the millions that died under it.
This, I like the swastika for what it was before it was used in Nazi symbolism, as such I have nothing against the general use of it, but brandishing it upon the red and white background is where it becomes disrespectful.

As for all the communism...well, that's a dark topic that can only go downhill, there's really no point in trying to bring that up...

Quote:
I can see why people have a problem with others having emblems and stuff like this but its just a picture. I don't see why any one would go out of their way to report the person or message them as you just allowed it to effect you for that short period of time. You should just look at it and be like oh go you and then look away.
With Treyarch actually policing their report system now, I will happily take those 3 seconds to press a button a couple of times, the emblem editor is there for you to express your creativity or your adoration of something you love, not to deliberately try and piss off millions of people
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:45 PM   #15
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:54 PM   #16
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I can see why people have a problem with others having emblems and stuff like this but its just a picture. I don't see why any one would go out of their way to report the person or message them as you just allowed it to effect you for that short period of time. You should just look at it and be like oh go you and then look away.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:56 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by II Mortis II View Post
The swastika originated as a symbol of peace in religions such as Buddhism. Swastika literally means "to be good".
Too bad that it will never be known as that ever again. When people think swastika, they think of Germany and Hitler.

Stupid fucking world we live in.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:01 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iBuzz7S View Post
Too bad that it will never be known as that ever again. When people think swastika, they think of Germany and Hitler.

Stupid fucking world we live in.
my thoughts exactly
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:48 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoborg View Post
I really think this deserves to be brought up. I don't understand why there is this comparatively unfounded hysteria regarding Nazi Germany.

Why is it perfectly okay for someone to make an emblem of the Soviet union when they were responsible for over 90 million deaths (mostly civilians) in the 20th century. The Nazis never came close to that, they killed about 10 million.

Setting that aside for one second, let's compare the difference between the Shutzstaffel (SS) and the Nazi emblem. The SS emblem as you know is the typical two S letters put close together resembling lightning bolts. In contrast, the Nazi flag is not a military symbol, it's political representing Germany as a country in that particular period of history.

I'm a little bit out of the loop here but is the SS symbol banned too? If so why? The SS were a special branch of the military personally responsible for Hitler's safety and some of the most skilled fighters in the second world war. As far as I know, all other military symbols (though perhaps not as recognizable) are allowed in the editor. This is hypocritical. The SS and the Nazi's from a historic point of view has generated tons of profits for Activision because it is the very foundation of their product.

Doesn't it seem strange to you that they would ban users from creating such historic emblems when they are allowed to play members of this faction in the older games in multiplayer?

Further, the Nazi swastika is the only political flag that is banned in the editor. I've seen a bunch of Confederate flags, I don't think there is a policy for banning those which would be highly offensive to blacks.

Also I don't buy the argument that it is per se offensive. That is hypocritical. Just look at the facts; 10 million people killed, a majority Russians and Jews vs nearly 100 million people killed. People need to be more rational. The communist flags ought to be more offensive because those factions have done way more harm to humanity than the Nazi's could ever dream of.

Please discuss and keep it civil.
the difference is the impact that the nazi flag had on the rest of the world. i have german friends who want nothing more than to forget that period in time ever happend. the fact there are immature ppl out there who think its amussing or do not understand the symbol on the flag due to ignorance amazes me. if and i find such an emblem you can be assured its reported there and then.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoborg View Post
I really think this deserves to be brought up. I don't understand why there is this comparatively unfounded hysteria regarding Nazi Germany.

Why is it perfectly okay for someone to make an emblem of the Soviet union when they were responsible for over 90 million deaths (mostly civilians) in the 20th century. The Nazis never came close to that, they killed about 10 million.

Setting that aside for one second, let's compare the difference between the Shutzstaffel (SS) and the Nazi emblem. The SS emblem as you know is the typical two S letters put close together resembling lightning bolts. In contrast, the Nazi flag is not a military symbol, it's political representing Germany as a country in that particular period of history.

I'm a little bit out of the loop here but is the SS symbol banned too? If so why? The SS were a special branch of the military personally responsible for Hitler's safety and some of the most skilled fighters in the second world war. As far as I know, all other military symbols (though perhaps not as recognizable) are allowed in the editor. This is hypocritical. The SS and the Nazi's from a historic point of view has generated tons of profits for Activision because it is the very foundation of their product.

Doesn't it seem strange to you that they would ban users from creating such historic emblems when they are allowed to play members of this faction in the older games in multiplayer?

Further, the Nazi swastika is the only political flag that is banned in the editor. I've seen a bunch of Confederate flags, I don't think there is a policy for banning those which would be highly offensive to blacks.

Also I don't buy the argument that it is per se offensive. That is hypocritical. Just look at the facts; 10 million people killed, a majority Russians and Jews vs nearly 100 million people killed. People need to be more rational. The communist flags ought to be more offensive because those factions have done way more harm to humanity than the Nazi's could ever dream of.

Please discuss and keep it civil.
This is because the Swastika drawn as it was by Nazi Germany is a modern symbol of not only hate, but as the symbol representing the group that caused mass murder because of this hate. You compared it to the Confederate flag. IMO! The Confederate flag isn't as offensive because, while ruled by only hate, but also a political reason. They were trying to break away from the Union to have their own political freedom to do as they please. Nazi Germany basically killed people just out of hate.

Can't say much about the USSR symbol as I have less knowledge about it. But again, the USSR did it not out of hate but political reasons. Germany didn't have to cause the Holocaust. It didn't benefit them politically.

Counter arguement to those who say they shouldn't be banned in emblem editor. By putting that as your emblem, you are using the swastika to either A) Be used as a symbol to represent yourself or B) Give your support to the people who caused the Holocaust. You can't say "remove them from the game overall then" because in the case mentioned above with Der Riese, It's used to show that this is Nazi Germany's work! Not to show support to their cause.



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Old 12-07-2012, 09:20 AM   #21
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The problem is people are fucking sheep.

What if I used the Buddhist swastika? Would that get me banned? Might even try it.

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