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Old 01-19-2013, 11:00 AM   #1
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your thoughts on single player games with a dash of multiplayer

iv been a fan of tomb raider since its first release, i remember getting it for my sega saturn and playing it to death multiple times, trying to get through without dying, only using certain weapons, then iv had every release since, some good, some terrible, some with potential but too many broken mechanics....

so when this was announced it was a breath of fresh air for me, yes it looked like uncharted but its a new lease of life for the franchise and a new take and iv been so excited............until the multiplayer was announced....

its something that breaks me when it comes to gaming, why they do it or even try it is beyoned me, worse still is the amount of achievements they tie to them forcing you to play it....

if i want multiplayer il play battlefield/gears of war and the likes....

tomb raider always has been a single player game, co-op i do not mind in games, some games il only play if co-op is active, but far too many games are tacking on multiplayer now to try and force sales and milk out add ons on the XBLA, the darkness was my first real experience of this, fantastic game in my eyes but then there was a truly awful multiplayer game tacked on, bioshock was good at the time, then the 2nd came out and wow another tacked on multiplayer game that nobody wanted to play, then assassins creed now tomb raider...

i know you dont have to play if you dont want, but with so many achievements attached to it it makes you feel you have to but 9 times outta 10 you have to do it almost instantly as after a month or so nobody is playing anymore....

so whats your thoughts anyways, as you can probably guess i believe a single player experience should be exactly that and be left alone, and time and money invested into multiplayer aspects could be used to polish the game up and add more features where needed
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:09 PM   #2
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My thoughts? That the multiplayer shouldn't exist! End of.

We can see from the Spec-Ops: The Line situation that this will have been commissioned/forced by the publisher most like, simply so they have a stat to say "'x' amount of people have played our game online" in some board meeting, held by a bunch of suits who couldn't give a fuck about games. The presence of an MP is also an excuse to pedle 'map pack' dlc. Zero to little effort put in the build and over priced, it's an easy sale.

To be quite frank, I'm just about done with all forms of MP anyway. I simply don't engage with it at all anymore. The community (in general) is just packed with rude, annoying and largely unpleasant people and it's been a very long time since I've had a decent experience online.

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Old 01-19-2013, 02:01 PM   #3
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I was going to get this game day 1, but now with the addition of MP I think I'll wait and pick it up later down the road when the price is reduced. I agree with alot of other players; not all games require a MP mode to be a great game.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:15 PM   #4
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I still cannot believe they have added MP to a Tomb Raider game. I mean what the fuck.... Also one of the game modes is death match! Very stupid decision IMO.
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:20 PM   #5
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My thoughts? It's incredibly stupid.

The fat cat execs look at the success of Call of Duty, and ask why it's so popular. They get the answer: Multiplayer. So then, they want to add it to their game, not realizing that the multiplayer has to be the focus and not a cheap addition to really sell the game.

People can say "Well, if you don't like the multiplayer, don't play it!" To that I say: Each game has a budget and a deadline. Just think that that time and money could be spent enhancing the single player experience (which is what sells certain games, just like the multiplayer sells Call of Duty).

Did anyone ask for multiplayer in Tomb Raider? Highly doubtful. Then, to add insult to injury, they add multiplayer achievements - ones that usually take forever and/or require a ridiculous amount of boosting just so they can say "Well look! These people played our game for a long time! They must love it!"

Don't get me wrong - I do love multiplayer games. I've played a ton of Call of Duty, Gears of War, Halo, Team Fortress 2, etc. but games like BioShock, Assassin's Creed, Dead Space, Mass Effect, Rage, The Darkness, etc. DO NOT NEED IT! No one wants it! If they absolutely HAVE to add it in, why not just leave off the MP Achievements?

Tacked on multiplayer is one of the worst trends this generation (Disc Locked Content being my personal most hated) and sadly it doesn't seem like it's going away.
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:55 PM   #6
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Disaster. And MP doesn't seem to be the only problem - read the previews, apparently the campaign is like a rigid on-rails cutscene where you hold down forward on the stick.

Back to the drawing board.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:43 PM   #7
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I'm against it, and expect it has had a bigger impact on the design of the SP than they will ever admit. But... I would have tolerated it if not for the Achievements. To me that Achievement list is like having to apologize publicly to someone who just robbed you (or something extra insulting like that). Salt on a wound and a bridge too far. From day one preorder to day whenever rental, maybe.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalArbiter View Post
People can say "Well, if you don't like the multiplayer, don't play it!" To that I say: Each game has a budget and a deadline. Just think that that time and money could be spent enhancing the single player experience (which is what sells certain games, just like the multiplayer sells Call of Duty).

Don't get me wrong - I do love multiplayer games. I've played a ton of Call of Duty, Gears of War, Halo, Team Fortress 2, etc. but games like BioShock, Assassin's Creed, Dead Space, Mass Effect, Rage, The Darkness, etc. DO NOT NEED IT! No one wants it! If they absolutely HAVE to add it in, why not just leave off the MP Achievements?
To that I say, I play almost every evening, and never have trouble finding a match so some people do want it. Also the ones you listed you played, they are the same just different title.

Maybe for the MP achievements, they should do what Mass Effect 3 did.
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:18 AM   #9
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Maybe for the MP achievements, they should do what Mass Effect 3 did.
You means to have just one achievement (Defender) out of the whole game that is MP only, so you have to play their MP or buy an Apple iPhone? no thanks. Dead Space 2 is way better, it doesn't have MP achievements so you are not forced to play MP if you don't want to.
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:57 PM   #10
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My thoughts? That the multiplayer shouldn't exist! End of.

We can see from the Spec-Ops: The Line situation that this will have been commissioned/forced by the publisher most like, simply so they have a stat to say "'x' amount of people have played our game online" in some board meeting, held by a bunch of suits who couldn't give a fuck about games. The presence of an MP is also an excuse to pedle 'map pack' dlc. Zero to little effort put in the build and over priced, it's an easy sale.

To be quite frank, I'm just about done with all forms of MP anyway. I simply don't engage with it at all anymore. The community (in general) is just packed with rude, annoying and largely unpleasant people and it's been a very long time since I've had a decent experience online.
I agree 100%. I've shifted away from MP because of these things..
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:35 PM   #11
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Only a "dash" of MP would be fine. Dead Space 2 is the best example I can think of - no MP achievements. Hell I never even tried it's MP. Max Payne 3 was actually a pleasant surprise for me and I ended up playing the MP quite a bit past just going for the achievements. Hopefully this will be along those lines; because with 240G for just the MP it seems they've put alot of stock in it.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:12 PM   #12
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I personally dislike multi-player modes that are tacked on just for the sake of having a form of MP. The online usually dies four or five months after the game is released, and then it becomes wasted money and resources that could have been used to better the single player experience.

That's not to say that all of the tacked on online modes are terrible, but those gems are few and far between.

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To be quite frank, I'm just about done with all forms of MP anyway. I simply don't engage with it at all anymore. The community (in general) is just packed with rude, annoying and largely unpleasant people and it's been a very long time since I've had a decent experience online.
I agree. I used to love talking to and playing with random people online, but now I try to stay away from it all.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:01 AM   #13
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i hate tacked on m/p. In this game the m/p is really bad , i dont mind it being there , i just wount play it ,i do think its a bit of a bugger that there are loads of g for m/p
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:27 AM   #14
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Add a crappy multiplayer.. but don't add achievements to it that force gamers to play it if they don't want to
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:52 PM   #15
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glad you guys agree i extepcted to be flamed to death or something lol, iv not read previews on single player as yet, but iv read multiplayer ones and they are not good, but this was expected, its just ruining games, i dont mind co-op in some games like gears of war, in fact i prefer to play co- op. but games like resident evil should of kept single player, dead space should be single player,, il still give this game a go as iv always been a tomb raider fan, but forcing players to play online with grindy achievments, like get to level 60. why not get to level 10, why not sample 1 game of multiplayer, have 5 easy to gain achievments, its ridiculous...

someone also hit the nail on the head with MP in general too with squeaky voiced underage dicks exploiting glitches, mods or hacks annoying the real hardcore commited gamers, its not hard to havea verify account feature, where you must submit a scan of drivers license or birth certificate or something and even something as simple as tying it to the bank account you use on xbox live.......
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:55 PM   #16
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Multiplayer in most games is pretty fun, so yeah, I'm happy with that decision.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:50 AM   #17
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Multiplayer in most games is pretty fun, so yeah, I'm happy with that decision.
HAHA nice troll

But no seriously. Looks like everyone is pretty damn upset.

Alright Crystal Dynamics, you can make it up to us. 50X experience opening weekend and you can fix this shit and we'll forget it every happened....maybe.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:22 PM   #18
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The MP in this game ain't too bad IMO especially if you get a few of your mates together and boost the achievements kinda fun
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:34 PM   #19
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HAHA nice troll

But no seriously. Looks like everyone is pretty damn upset.
Guess I'm trolling then, as I'm glad they included MP. I'll try it, and if I like it ill continue playing it and enjoying it. If I dont like it, ill then make a decision as to whether I grind out the achievements, or I just dont play it.

So many people complain about MP achievements, but most of the time thats for one of two reasons :

a) Your not good enough to earn them legit
b) Your not good enough to earn them legit

Put MP achievements in, and dont make them easy to obtain. Then I can try to do something and actually achieve something, that others cant. Seems like this TR has done that, so im happy. I'll be proud of my 1000g, while a lot of people obviously wont attain it.

Daft thing is, your all slating the shit out of something youve not even tried.

You know, you might, dare I say this, like it.
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:24 PM   #20
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Multiplayer in most games is pretty fun, so yeah, I'm happy with that decision.
You will not be happy with this decision until you play the MP... it's the worst MP that I have played in my entire life! Graphics are washed out, awful control + you have to prestige nearly 4 times... blehh.
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:58 PM   #21
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You will not be happy with this decision until you play the MP... it's the worst MP that I have played in my entire life! Graphics are washed out, awful control + you have to prestige nearly 4 times... blehh.
Then you haven't played ALIENS: COLONIAL MARINES MP...

The MP mode of this game is not as bad as it seems.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:17 PM   #22
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I think that now is better if Microsoft removes Gamerscore and achievements..
Too many people judge a game only on the achievements.. (also myself, i am not going to buy this game only because of these achievements..)
born of the achievements consequences?
Much more collectibles, kill someone in the modes described, hordes, leveling up and prestige..
consequence?
Game with a story of 5/10h, with the collectibles under your feet because it's boring to search around, all the game focused on a guy with some weapons and you have to shoot at everything that move..
Very fun, thanks Microsoft..
This is the era of FPS/TPS every game is going to transform into one of these 2 categories..
At least until there will be people who play..
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:46 PM   #23
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I think that now is better if Microsoft removes Gamerscore and achievements..
Too many people judge a game only on the achievements.. (also myself, i am not going to buy this game only because of these achievements..)
I agree. Before the 360 there were no achievements and it was to play for fun.
Apparently they might remove GS from the 720 (Doubt it)

However I am now one of those people who play for achievements. I would be so pissed if they took the away.
I don't not play a game because it has shit achievements however I might play a game I don't like just for the GS
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:04 AM   #24
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its something that breaks me when it comes to gaming, why they do it or even try it is beyoned me, worse still is the amount of achievements they tie to them forcing you to play it....

if i want multiplayer il play battlefield/gears of war and the likes....

tomb raider always has been a single player game, co-op i do not mind in games, some games il only play if co-op is active, but far too many games are tacking on multiplayer now to try and force sales and milk out add ons on the XBLA, the darkness was my first real experience of this, fantastic game in my eyes but then there was a truly awful multiplayer game tacked on, bioshock was good at the time, then the 2nd came out and wow another tacked on multiplayer game that nobody wanted to play, then assassins creed now tomb raider...

i know you dont have to play if you dont want, but with so many achievements attached to it it makes you feel you have to but 9 times outta 10 you have to do it almost instantly as after a month or so nobody is playing anymore....
I agree with this. I don't see the point in RPG's and strong story driven games needing a MP. I'm thinking of games such as Assassin Creed, Bio Shock, Fable, Mass Effect, and the up cumming Dragon age 3 Inquisition. the only one of these franchise's I don't have a problem with is Mass Effect and with there MP achievements also have a means of getting them in campaign.

Now I am one of those people who look up the achievements before I get the game's because I am lucky if I can afford one new game a year and most games I get I get when they have been out for years and I don't want a game were I am going to be struggling to find people to grind the achievements with.
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:48 AM   #25
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totally agree,tomb raider is my favourite game franchise,have them all,wont bother with this though,always stated when lara gets multiplayer I will not buy it,guess they forced my hand,look forward to raider descending into the shit pit that resident evil now lives in.Glad i am not the only person sick of fucking online,co-op and multiplayer.The whole damn thing is a conspiracy to milk cash out of us,remember when we all thought snes games cost too much?,at least they werent milking us for the internet,a gold subscription,the game,dlc and bastard online passes all just so you can get repeatedly killed over and over by a five year old modder,it wouldnt be so bad if you could actually get these achievements,if you dont play in the first week then you are screwed,unless its crap of doody or boringfield then you can be sure no one will be online until they shut the servers down and those achievements are unobtainable forever,someone needs to implement a system to get dead achievements some other way or let you get them either in single or multiplayer and not be forced to go online amongst the assholes.
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:05 PM   #26
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I'm not too bothered, but I guess that's not fair for me to say as I haven't played a Tomb Raider game before and I understand the addition of multiplayer to this game has pissed a lot of people off lol but you guys never know, the multiplayer might actually be decent.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:34 AM   #27
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I'm not too bothered, but I guess that's not fair for me to say as I haven't played a Tomb Raider game before and I understand the addition of multiplayer to this game has pissed a lot of people off lol but you guys never know, the multiplayer might actually be decent.
If it is going to be a "decent" multiplayer they could have done a brand-new game with it, is such as if they put team deathmatch (with guns..) in a sport game.. (maybe already exists..)
To me it has no sense putting Versus online in every game, i know that "multiplayer is the future" but not every game need it..
And also, why those achievements?
If it's a good multiplayer i'll play it also without them (especially without them I'll have more fun..)
So, they know that this "online" doesn't like to all and they gave those achievements so the "achievement hunter" or the "completionist" MUST play that multiplayer at least 20h..
This is one reason why I won't buy this game..
This is MY opinion, feel free to think different, every person has (I hope..) a brain in the head to think and decide what to do..
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:55 AM   #28
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It seems people are more pissed off about MP achievements than the MP itself I cancelled my preorder simply because of the inclusion of the MP. The fact that MP has never been in a Tomb Raider game before means that a large amount of time and resources would have been spent planning/building it. If it turns out there is still a lengthy/riveting SP experience then I may change my mind and buy it. (Probably won't touch the MP)
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:55 PM   #29
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It seems people are more pissed off about MP achievements than the MP itself I cancelled my preorder simply because of the inclusion of the MP. The fact that MP has never been in a Tomb Raider game before means that a large amount of time and resources would have been spent planning/building it. If it turns out there is still a lengthy/riveting SP experience then I may change my mind and buy it. (Probably won't touch the MP)
They had a secondary studio develop the multiplayer, a studio that would have had no part of the single player development had they not been working on the multiplayer.

So many people say that "single player" games don't need multiplayer, but unfortunately sales figures are proving everything you guys are saying wrong. Single player games just don't generally sell as well as multiplayer games. It is simple fact. No matter how good/bad a game is, on paper, multiplayer = replay value = higher sales.

I am pretty sure I read somewhere that the multiplayer from this game was developed because of the direction they went for the SP and they realized they could actually support a working MP from it, not the other way around, which in this case is perfectly acceptable. They have even said, we aren't sure how well it is going to work out, but we wanted to try it. Sounds reasonable to me. I agree that adding achievements for it is kind of mean/stupid, but to say they are "forcing" you to play the multiplayer? Grow up. You will play it if you want the points, or have an unfinished game on your card if you don't, but passing on what could be the first GOTY contender (and looking like a strong one from reviews) because of the achievement list? Pretty extreme, considering you don't HAVE to play games on your main profile, and can still play good looking games for fun.


For my general response to the topic, fine by me, even if the multiplayer sucks ass, as long as they didn't sacrifice thier single player in development, which most don't, which is why it usually sucks.
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200,000 GS (2/2/2014) (I blame MMOs)

Last edited by Midnight Malice; 03-01-2013 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 03-03-2013, 02:04 AM   #30
BIG L RETURNS
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight Malice View Post
So many people say that "single player" games don't need multiplayer, but unfortunately sales figures are proving everything you guys are saying wrong. Single player games just don't generally sell as well as multiplayer games. It is simple fact. No matter how good/bad a game is, on paper, multiplayer = replay value = higher sales.
You do realize that Bioshock Infinite is going to debunk your theory. OH, wait.....Skyrim, Dishonored, Dragon Age already did that long ago.
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