PlaystationTrophies Got a news tip? tips@x360a.org
Username
Password
 

Go Back   XboxAchievements.com > Xbox 360 Retail Games > RPG > Risen
Subscribe    Donate

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-04-2009, 11:33 AM   #1
I Renegade x
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 195

I Renegade x's Gamercard
don't buy it is terrible

Am I the only one who finds this game hugely disapointing. I am just wondering why a company would release an rpg with such terrrible controls and gameplay when its competing with RPG's like oblivion and fable 2. It probably has the worst combat system in a game to of been released on xbox. wot a let down.

wish i read review before purchasing it got 4/10 nd i think thats generous

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/risen-review?page=2
I Renegade x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2009, 12:26 PM   #2
tonyskat
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 105

tonyskat's Gamercard
Quote:
Originally Posted by I Renegade x View Post
Am I the only one who finds this game hugely disapointing. I am just wondering why a company would release an rpg with such terrrible controls and gameplay when its competing with RPG's like oblivion and fable 2. It probably has the worst combat system in a game to of been released on xbox. wot a let down.

wish i read review before purchasing it got 4/10 nd i think thats generous

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/risen-review?page=2
That's just your opinion. And review from Eurogamer its pitty to talk. Eurogamer sucks!
tonyskat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2009, 12:51 PM   #3
Rowan88
 
Rowan88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 576
Send a message via MSN to Rowan88

Rowan88's Gamercard
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyskat View Post
That's just your opinion. And review from Eurogamer its pitty to talk. Eurogamer sucks!
Ditto...
Rowan88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2009, 12:55 PM   #4
Ellusion
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Norway
Posts: 170

Ellusion no's Gamercard

Awards Showcase Submit - Bronze
Total Awards: 1 (more» ...)
I'll admit it's out of the ordinary, in a good way, and that people used to being lead by the hand through cookie cutter rpgs that never puts up a challenge, will be a little surly.

There is nothing wrong with the controls (playing RE5 first would give you all the training needed =) - they are just "different". Once you get accustomed to them they work perfectly.

And yes, I've always been an avid reader of Eurogamer since they started, but that review was just so far below standards and integrity, I won't go near Eurogamer again.
Ellusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2009, 02:28 PM   #5
junKeh
 
junKeh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 35

teH junKeh's Gamercard
Oblivion was okay, but it wasn't all that good.
Fable 2 was crap compared to Fable 1. Fable 1 was way better. Fable 2 was just a game for the masses. Sure, play Fable 2, you can fart in public and your dog finds treasures for you. It's a fun game, but you can't actualy compare it with Risen...It's just another overrated game...

Gothic 1 and Gothic 2 are two of the best RPGs I have ever played. If you ask me, Risen is 90% Gothic-like. That's what makes it so good probably. It's one of the best RPGs, if not the best, of 2009.

So if you think Fable 2 or Oblivion are better than Risen, go play Fable 2 or Oblivion. I'd rather dive myself into an epic experience than "follow the glowing trail".
__________________
Better than FF 12 & maybe 13.
junKeh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:06 AM   #6
TRICKY1976
 
TRICKY1976's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NOTTINGHAM ENGLAND
Posts: 876
Send a message via ICQ to TRICKY1976 Send a message via MSN to TRICKY1976

TRICKY1976's Gamercard

Awards Showcase Submit - Bronze
Total Awards: 1 (more» ...)
Smile

Im glad other players said it was good im deciding wether to buy risen it got a good review in the latest OXM so when i read the first post i was abit taken back but happy to see all the other posts saying how good an RPG it is thanks
__________________


TRICKY1976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 12:58 PM   #7
Grummy
 
Grummy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 729

Grumftheld's Gamercard
Risen is an RPG players RPG, and is far more reminiscent of an RPG you'd expect from the pc community than a console game. It's not high visuals big explosions whizzbang instant gratification, its a deep, complex and beautiful game. Not beautiful to look at, sure, its pretty average visually, but the level of detail, the quality of the gameplay and design, its outstanding. Unfortunately people like the reviewers over at eurogamer are little more than retarded moths who just want to bash their heads against easy to grasp pretty instant gratification games. People like that they reinforce the ridiculous stereotype that pc elitists cling too, that console gamers are thick and can't play real intelligent game like a deep RPG.

I have no problem with people not liking this game, frankly, anyone who doesn't like it is someone who has the attention span the length of a cheese doodle, they are not people who can stomach having to invest time and effort into playing a game for greater satisfaction and rewards.

I love when people raise he Eurogamer article because that one is a prime example of someone who is paid to be a dumbass plebian, someone who just doesn't get it.

If you're an RPG fan, through and through, you will love this game, there's no way you can NOT.
__________________


http://www.360voice.com/tag/Grumftheld

My First Guide!! Way of the Samurai 3
http://www.xbox360achievements.org/g...ai-3-us/guide/
If you have any questions, please pm me on here then send me a message on Live to let me know its here and I'll get to it asap.
Grummy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 01:03 PM   #8
DaReAlT83
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 63

DaReAlT83's Gamercard
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRICKY1976 View Post
when i read the first post i was abit taken back but happy to see all the other posts saying how good an RPG it is thanks
Rent it first and after playing it a few hours decide to buy it or not. The graphics are terrible, that's right, but I love the game anyway. The controls are a matter of getting used to but it takes just a few fights.
I'm playing it for about 20 hours now and just reached the second chapter because there is so much to do on the island.
__________________
DaReAlT83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 01:08 PM   #9
DaReAlT83
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 63

DaReAlT83's Gamercard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grummy View Post
Risen is an RPG players RPG, and is far more reminiscent of an RPG you'd expect from the pc community than a console game. It's not high visuals big explosions whizzbang instant gratification, its a deep, complex and beautiful game. Not beautiful to look at, sure, its pretty average visually, but the level of detail, the quality of the gameplay and design, its outstanding. Unfortunately people like the reviewers over at eurogamer are little more than retarded moths who just want to bash their heads against easy to grasp pretty instant gratification games. People like that they reinforce the ridiculous stereotype that pc elitists cling too, that console gamers are thick and can't play real intelligent game like a deep RPG.

I have no problem with people not liking this game, frankly, anyone who doesn't like it is someone who has the attention span the length of a cheese doodle, they are not people who can stomach having to invest time and effort into playing a game for greater satisfaction and rewards.

I love when people raise he Eurogamer article because that one is a prime example of someone who is paid to be a dumbass plebian, someone who just doesn't get it.

If you're an RPG fan, through and through, you will love this game, there's no way you can NOT.
Great summary!
__________________
DaReAlT83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 01:37 PM   #10
Majinek
 
Majinek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 619
Well im a RPG fan but im NOT love this game, heck im not even like it. For me this game have too many riddiculousness. Example : Im entering someone house, beat the crap out of the owner, robbing him and his house and after all that he still isnt pissed at me. Or another one : Im selling weed to some dude, then beating him and taking that weed from him and selling this weed again to him. I mean c'mon! It should be like this "Heeey people listen! This arsehole beated the living crap outta me and then loot my ass!" but no. This game may be great but for me it suck.
__________________

"Those who live in darkness wander aimlessly"
Majinek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 04:12 PM   #11
ExtremeRugburn
 
ExtremeRugburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: California
Posts: 1,186

Extreme Rugburn's Gamercard

Awards Showcase Submit - Bronze   XBA Promoter   1,000 Posts   Donator - Level 1
Total Awards: 4 (more» ...)
Ok I love RPG's and this game is on my wishlist. I played a demo on my computer and it looked promising. From most of the posts here I am still inclined to purchase it, however if anyone can post a few review sites I would appreciate it. I always like to read several reviews so I can get an overall feel for the game. I noticed that several people said you actually have to think and put some time into the game, that their is no "yellow brick road" to follow. THANK GOD! As much as I love Oblivion, I hated how the game showed you exactly where everything is with a green arrow. Although I have not played Fable II, which I have owned for months, Im not looking forward to having my hand held with the "yellow road".
__________________
ExtremeRugburn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 05:05 PM   #12
Grummy
 
Grummy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 729

Grumftheld's Gamercard
Majinek, thats fine if you don't like it, not everyone has too, bt the reaons you list aren't exactly unique to this game, the only real difference between ths an Oblivion in those regards is taht in this game, people don't die straight away, you have to consciously execute them, but Oblivion was full of little glitches too.

The core of this game is intelligent, well designed pure Roleplaying. It is, by every method of interpretation, a pure RPG with a solid RPG core. The execution may be a little weak in places, but the core is a truly excellent RPG, there can't be any argument on that score. And that is what makes this a truly stellar game for me, and many otehr RPG enthusiasts.

Rugburn mate, don't read the reviews, I've read a few and they are very black and white, either they love the game or hate it, the love it crowd get why its good, but do gloss over the negatives, the hate it crowd just don't get it at all and all they can see are the negatives.

In truth, if you can overlook small niggly little problems which really don't take much from the game, but are somewhat plentiful, and assuming you are a solid RPG core enthusiast, then you'll love this game. If on the otehr hand small problems ount up for you and the more tehy are, the harder it is foryou to enjoy a game, then unfortunately you'll have to pass this by.

In truth, if you DO want to read reviews, I'd recommend the PC reviews because they are far more neutral and read about the core game much better and the core game is the same for both, so its worth doing.

I will say this though, if you played RPG's on PC, there's a fair cahnce you played Gothic, if you liked Gothic, you'll love this. BUT, if you didn't like gothic, thats not a bad thing, I hated the Gothic games, but I LOVE this game.
__________________


http://www.360voice.com/tag/Grumftheld

My First Guide!! Way of the Samurai 3
http://www.xbox360achievements.org/g...ai-3-us/guide/
If you have any questions, please pm me on here then send me a message on Live to let me know its here and I'll get to it asap.
Grummy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 06:28 AM   #13
Suki
 
Suki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,589

Awards Showcase 1,000 Posts
Total Awards: 1 (more» ...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by junKeh View Post
Oblivion was okay, but it wasn't all that good.
Fable 2 was crap compared to Fable 1. Fable 1 was way better. Fable 2 was just a game for the masses. Sure, play Fable 2, you can fart in public and your dog finds treasures for you. It's a fun game, but you can't actualy compare it with Risen...It's just another overrated game.".
ok i am now struggling to read and take seriously anything u have written because this is crazy its like saying i love morris minors and am in the morris minors owners club and better cars such as bmw's and mercs are crap compared to morris minors there just not as involved, u have a distorted view of reality.
__________________
Over 100 Games 1000 Pointed
Suki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 07:54 AM   #14
junKeh
 
junKeh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 35

teH junKeh's Gamercard
@Suki : Just because you're a Fable 2 fan and you probably cried when you read my post doesn't mean I have a distorted view of reality. I never said Fable 2 was bad, all I said was that it's overrated and that Fable 1 was way better, which is in fact true. At least from the point of view of an RPG gamer. Sure, my girlfriend loved Fable 2 but she never played Fable 1 or other RPGs. So she was so happy she had a little doggy, the graphics were animated and the game was easy for her. Fable 1 had better quests, better gameplay, it was more fun, it wasn't as kiddy as Fable 2 and you could at least equip armors. Why would I want to change my clothes in Fable 2 ? I don't care about atractiveness and such, it's only a game, it's virtual. I don't wanna impress the NPCs in town...This is my opinion, so if you don't agree, fine, but don't tell me I have a distorted view of reality...that should be you rather than me. Risen is one hell of an RPG for a hardcore RPG fan. Period.
__________________
Better than FF 12 & maybe 13.
junKeh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 12:59 PM   #15
Steel Stealth
 
Steel Stealth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 149

TranceX89's Gamercard

Awards Showcase Word of Mouth
Total Awards: 1 (more» ...)
I saw a review where they gave it an 8!

I haven't played the game yet but I ordereid it. I love RPG's (except the turn based J-RPG's) and I think I will have fun with this game. I even had a lot of fun playing Two Worlds even with the laggy framrate.
__________________
Trance is my religion!

Steel Stealth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 02:50 PM   #16
danksch
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 239

danksch's Gamercard
Wasn't it Eurogamer's review that criticized Risen concerning how it would steal RPG-elements from other games, like the treasure opening would look exactly like in Fable, and the dialogue was much like in Oblivion? Guess they didn't know that Piranha Bytes established those features in their Gothic series, which was released WAY before those aforementioned games!
Dunno if it was Eurogamer or just another mainstream shit magazine, but once i read this, I almost smashed my head into my monitor -- really said how must "big" magazines dont even bother about games from more independent, non-U.S. and not so famous companies! It's a shame. They probably never heard of Gothic...
danksch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 03:43 PM   #17
I Renegade x
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 195

I Renegade x's Gamercard
you have all raised some valid points but the below average graphics and slow and terrible combat just out weighs the good points such as the unique elements and storyline of the game. I do think there are good points but my personal opinion is that they released the game to early and should've waited a bit longer to improve on the graphics and as for the combat I guess I am just one of those players that are not into slow combat and slow controls. Also I don't feel that they have put enough into the game because it takes more then a good storyline to make a game but that is just my opinion so please don't have a fit about wot I said.

For people thinking of getting the game I recomend renting it first because I for 1 was disapointed with the game and would've prefered if it was pushed bak and wait till next year for a better quallity game.
I Renegade x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 04:12 PM   #18
Grummy
 
Grummy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 729

Grumftheld's Gamercard
Suki, wtf? Talk sense man/woman/thing whatever you are. Your talking utter nonsense mate.
__________________


http://www.360voice.com/tag/Grumftheld

My First Guide!! Way of the Samurai 3
http://www.xbox360achievements.org/g...ai-3-us/guide/
If you have any questions, please pm me on here then send me a message on Live to let me know its here and I'll get to it asap.
Grummy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 04:31 PM   #19
Ellusion
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Norway
Posts: 170

Ellusion no's Gamercard

Awards Showcase Submit - Bronze
Total Awards: 1 (more» ...)
I think the combat is really one of the strong points, mainly due to it being a challenge and not simple number crunching. Having to learn how each creature fights, and come up with a strategy is quite rewarding. Have you met and defeated an Ogre yet? Or an Ashbeast? Truly a sense of accomplishment when you finally bring one down.

Same with Gothic 1&2, where you could bring down the biggest baddest monster if you only knew how, no matter the level. (black troll with a rusty sword at level 1-2 in Gothic 2 anyone? =)
Ellusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 05:06 PM   #20
danksch
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 239

danksch's Gamercard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellusion View Post
(black troll with a rusty sword at level 1-2 in Gothic 2 anyone? =)

That was the first monster to kill whenever I started a new game xD always took quite a run, but it was worth the fun at last.
danksch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 05:21 PM   #21
I Renegade x
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 195

I Renegade x's Gamercard
I av never played one any of the gothic games so perhaps that is why i dislike the combat in the game. I just dont like how you have to use both analogue sticks as well as use the attack buttons at the same time during combat and it feel slugish. I think it would be better if the right trigger was the atack button instead of x because when using both analogues and trying to press x at the same time it just doesn't feel right

Last edited by I Renegade x; 10-06-2009 at 05:23 PM.
I Renegade x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 05:43 PM   #22
junKeh
 
junKeh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 35

teH junKeh's Gamercard
There are a few tricks to the combat system. First of all, blocking will auto-target your enemy, so just wait for the perfect moment to dodge/counter, then attack. You have to time your movements and observe the fighting style of each monster. It's not that hard. I got used pretty fast to the gameplay.
The storyline and feeling are beautiful. The graphics are not exactly "next-gen" but you can't say the landscapes don't look nice. The vegetation also looks beautiful. So what if it's not another mainstream eye-candy game ? Graphics alone can't make a game good. That's only the opinion of 12 year-olds who started "gaming" with a PS3 or X360 as their first console. I mean, where's the good old days where graphics weren't as important as the storyline, feeling, sound/music, atmosphere ?
It's sad to see the gaming industry transform itself into one more shallow bussiness like music and film. We only care about the image nowadays. Hey, the music and movies of 2009 are mostly shit, but who cares about voice when the singers are 20 year old half-naked-model-body chicks ? And who cares if the movie plots are the same over and over again, full of cliches as long as the special effects look good ? Same for games, who cares about a game's story and overall depth-of-experience as long as the graphics are sharp as hell ?
Shallow as hell...I'd rather play games with graphics that look like the year 2006, but with the feeling that old titles had...some of you may remember the beauty of games such as Max Payne, Final Fantasy 7, Gothic, Diablo 2, Advent Rising. Well, they don't make`em anymore do they ?
__________________
Better than FF 12 & maybe 13.
junKeh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 06:14 PM   #23
danksch
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 239

danksch's Gamercard
Quote:
Originally Posted by junkeh View Post
there are a few tricks to the combat system. First of all, blocking will auto-target your enemy, so just wait for the perfect moment to dodge/counter, then attack. You have to time your movements and observe the fighting style of each monster. It's not that hard. I got used pretty fast to the gameplay.
The storyline and feeling are beautiful. The graphics are not exactly "next-gen" but you can't say the landscapes don't look nice. The vegetation also looks beautiful. So what if it's not another mainstream eye-candy game ? Graphics alone can't make a game good. That's only the opinion of 12 year-olds who started "gaming" with a ps3 or x360 as their first console. I mean, where's the good old days where graphics weren't as important as the storyline, feeling, sound/music, atmosphere ?
It's sad to see the gaming industry transform itself into one more shallow bussiness like music and film. We only care about the image nowadays. Hey, the music and movies of 2009 are mostly shit, but who cares about voice when the singers are 20 year old half-naked-model-body chicks ? And who cares if the movie plots are the same over and over again, full of cliches as long as the special effects look good ? Same for games, who cares about a game's story and overall depth-of-experience as long as the graphics are sharp as hell ?
Shallow as hell...i'd rather play games with graphics that look like the year 2006, but with the feeling that old titles had...some of you may remember the beauty of games such as max payne, final fantasy 7, gothic, diablo 2, advent rising. Well, they don't make`em anymore do they ?

---/signed
danksch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2009, 01:19 PM   #24
Grummy
 
Grummy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 729

Grumftheld's Gamercard
One thing I can't sispute, the combat IS a heavily flawed experience. Power attacks that don't break through blocks, the clunky button placement making constant movement and rotation far too hard, the auto aim that goes haywire when faced with more than one enemy and is very temperamental, no, for me, the combat is the weakest element of the game by far.
__________________


http://www.360voice.com/tag/Grumftheld

My First Guide!! Way of the Samurai 3
http://www.xbox360achievements.org/g...ai-3-us/guide/
If you have any questions, please pm me on here then send me a message on Live to let me know its here and I'll get to it asap.
Grummy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2010, 12:28 PM   #25
Owen H Brown
 
Owen H Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 240

Owen H Brown's Gamercard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majinek View Post
Well im a RPG fan but im NOT love this game, heck im not even like it. For me this game have too many riddiculousness. Example : Im entering someone house, beat the crap out of the owner, robbing him and his house and after all that he still isnt pissed at me. Or another one : Im selling weed to some dude, then beating him and taking that weed from him and selling this weed again to him. I mean c'mon! It should be like this "Heeey people listen! This arsehole beated the living crap outta me and then loot my ass!" but no. This game may be great but for me it suck.
I can't believe you are ignoring things like story, combat, landscape... and focusing on what happens after you beat someone up when judging the game.

Maybe simply beating up regular folk isn't how most gamers get their kicks, so this wouldn't be an issue for most people.

State something actually helpful when criticising the game!
Owen H Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2010, 05:02 PM   #26
StupidDecDec
 
StupidDecDec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ipswich
Posts: 41

StupidDecDec's Gamercard
Renegade.

Your lucky mate.
i complained about "dragon age origins" for being terrible and because i got fan boys disagreeing with me, some moderator decided the thread should be closed.

Anyways never played risen. but looks shite.
StupidDecDec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 11:20 AM   #27
Mr.Teflondon187
 
Mr.Teflondon187's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 128

Mr Teflondon187's Gamercard
I am enjoying playing Risen. Is is a pretty good game. It isn't a breakthrough game or anything, but it is fun if you like RPG games. The graphics aren't the greatest, but graphics don't make or break the game. I think if you are a RPG fan, and by RPG fan I don't mean Fable 2 or Bioshock, you would like this game. I true RPG game is Elder Scrolls, Fallout 3, Divinity 2, Two Worlds, and stuff like that, in my opinion.
__________________
"Kicks are too merciful for a maegi. Take her outside. We will stake her to the earth, to be the mount of every passing man. And when they are done with her, the dogs will use her as well. Weasels will tear out her entrails and crows feast upon her eyes. The flies off the river shall lay their eggs in her womb and drink pus from the ruins of her breasts"



Mr.Teflondon187 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 11:42 AM   #28
Svenndarkheart
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 330

svenndarkheart's Gamercard
I wasw thinking about buying this game found it cheap and after reading all this i do love RPG games so i will try it
Svenndarkheart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 12:05 PM   #29
Muse89
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: England
Posts: 506

Ragnarok K1's Gamercard
thinking i may try this, was a bit undecided but its currently on amazon for 13 and i need something to keep me occupied til ffxiii comes out
__________________
Muse89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 04:58 PM   #30
MonsoonBaby88
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Romford, Essex
Posts: 1

MonsoonBaby88's Gamercard
I am still currently playing Risen, and have invested many hours into it. Theres just so much to do that it is definitely value for money. OK, the graphics are a little shoddy, and the game tends to bug out a lot, but as for the storytelling and the gameplay, I'm really enjoying it.
MonsoonBaby88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 04:18 AM.