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Old 07-03-2010, 12:58 PM   #1
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I fail to see what is wrong with this game.

I just really don't understand it, I read these posts on the forums and 90% of the people say it's one of the worst games they have ever played, and treat it like it's the worst game on the 360. I know there's flaws to this game, but every game has flaws - the average graphics, the glitches, the insane battle with Brayko if you're going for a stealth playthrough. Yet, it remains one of the most in-depth RPG's I have ever played, it's one of my favorite games on the 360 to date. I've played the majority of the games, too. Red Dead Redemption, Mass Effect 1&2, Fallout 3, Fable 2, Oblivion, Gears of War 1&2, etc...yet, this still remains one of the ones i'll never get tired of playing. The only people I can see not enjoying this are the ones only going for the combat, rather than the story...Can someone please tell me why so many people bash this game so much? I mean, look at some of the other games out there - Leisure Suit Larry: Box Office Bust, Pimp My Ride, Avatar, the majority of movie games...yet you continue to say this is one of the worst games for 360 - Why?
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Old 07-03-2010, 01:04 PM   #2
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I'm guessing it has something to do with people hyping themselves up for the game, and then when it doesn't meet expectations they say it's terrible.

Only real problems with the game are overall shortness (but it has good replayability) and dumb AI. Besides that I love it.

It's pretty annoying seeing people call this game 'one of the worst games ever', but there's nothing to be done. Hopefully we'll still get a sequel at some point though. The game is a great start, but with a bit of polishing and expanding of the gameplay mechanics a sequel could be absolutely amazing.
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Old 07-03-2010, 01:07 PM   #3
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I think the problem most people have with it is everything except the rpg elements and decision paths

everything else like combat, graphics, main character development are lacking for them

and those are the game killers

also as stated above this game was hyped a decent amount, and comes from Obsidian..who people were expecting more from

I have yet to play it, so thats my take on what Ive seen people say...Ill judge for myelf when I get around to renting it
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Old 07-03-2010, 06:33 PM   #4
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I think the problem most people have with it is everything except the rpg elements and decision paths

everything else like combat, graphics, main character development are lacking for them

and those are the game killers

also as stated above this game was hyped a decent amount, and comes from Obsidian..who people were expecting more from

I have yet to play it, so thats my take on what Ive seen people say...Ill judge for myelf when I get around to renting it
People are moaning about the RPG elements because of the Reticule of the guns and the AI spotting you when you don't have sound damper equipment.

AP has solid combat, graphics that rival Fallout 3 and ME2, and your character does develope quite well since you learn more as the game goes.

Those aren't Killers because those are dislikes on AP since people blame RPGs since they lack the skill to play those while most games don't have the high level of graphics that games like Crysis, Uncharted 2, and God of War 3 have acheived.

AP had the basic hype of any Western RPG like Oblivion and KotR had.

You're better off buying AP especially when it has excellent replayability, which that means its worth more then $60 in general.
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Old 07-03-2010, 08:14 PM   #5
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The whole 'poor combat' thing is completely bogus, no truth to it at all.

As I've said in a few places now, the only problem with this game is with the players who can't handle that it's an RPG and NOT an action game. They hate that they have to rely on the stats and skills and game mechanics rather than their own personal skill like they would with Splinter Cell. If people would wake up and realize this is an RPG through and through, they may not like it any more, but at least they'd dislike it for a valid reason. After all, not everyone enjoys RPG's, and there's nothing wrong with that, it's perfectly fine is someone dislikes the game because it's an RPG, but to dislike it for being a BAD game when their own preconceptions are that it's a Splinter Cell style game is teh fault of the individual, not the game.

The problem is with the players, not the game, simple as that.
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Old 07-04-2010, 08:46 AM   #6
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I got this as a rental yesterday and I have to say I'm rather pleased about getting it. After hearing how bad it was I was expecting a terrible game when in fact it's quite good, not the best but still good.

As for the shooting I just looked at it like the sniper rifle in ME1, it will get better if you level up those weapons.
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Old 07-04-2010, 07:22 PM   #7
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The whole 'poor combat' thing is completely bogus, no truth to it at all.

As I've said in a few places now, the only problem with this game is with the players who can't handle that it's an RPG and NOT an action game. They hate that they have to rely on the stats and skills and game mechanics rather than their own personal skill like they would with Splinter Cell. If people would wake up and realize this is an RPG through and through, they may not like it any more, but at least they'd dislike it for a valid reason. After all, not everyone enjoys RPG's, and there's nothing wrong with that, it's perfectly fine is someone dislikes the game because it's an RPG, but to dislike it for being a BAD game when their own preconceptions are that it's a Splinter Cell style game is teh fault of the individual, not the game.

The problem is with the players, not the game, simple as that.
You've got a very good point there. I love RPG's, but I have been on the fence about this game since the release; mainly because of the negative reactions and reviews.
My brother just bought it for his PS3, though, and I've got to admit- it doesn't look that bad. It looks rather good, actually, and my brother really enjoys it too. This, mixed with your well argumented point, Grummy, will make me pick it up next time I get the opportunity.

But to follow up on your comment, Grummy, I also think it is important for people to make the correct distinctions between action games and RPG's nowadays (reviewers too). Some people also got disappointed about Fallout 3 thinking it was an FPS. Fortunately, I love both types of games, but there is no reason for people to bash a game because they didn't read up on it before they bought it and expected it to be something entirely else. Know your genres, what you like and what you don't, and keep to the genres you like. Just because you see it from a first person or third person pespective doesn't make it an action game
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Old 07-04-2010, 10:31 PM   #8
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I love this game. To me it puts SC: Conviction to shame as far as stealth goes. I would not however, say this regarding SC1-SCCT. Sam's character had built in stealth without leveling up; which compared to AP, made AP more difficult to master the stealth elements. I have been craving a reasonable stealth game for awhile. Finally one appears and is a RPG. A complete win for me. I am playing AP on PS3, I am totally addicted. The belly aching is coming from run and gunners who think all elements are to be handed to them on a platter without improving their skills. I used to be one of those run and gunners, I have tired of those types of games. They are too much alike. If you play one you have played them all. Run, shoot, get rained on by enemy grenades, reach checkpoint, rinse and repeat.
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Old 07-05-2010, 02:23 AM   #9
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I think too many people are doing Recruit/Hard immediately and enhancing the otherwise not gamebreaking problems the game has.
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Old 07-05-2010, 03:10 AM   #10
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well you said it yourself, "you fail to see what's wrong with this game" can;t really change your opinion now, maybe your eyes lol! i rented the game and gave it back 4 hours later,.
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Old 07-06-2010, 08:34 AM   #11
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I just started this game today and I'm really enjoying it. I think it was the RPG/shooter thing mentioned above; just look at guillermo's post. You can't even begin to absorb an RPG in a couple hours.
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Old 07-06-2010, 09:58 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by MDDC View Post
...Can someone please tell me why so many people bash this game so much? I mean, look at some of the other games out there - Leisure Suit Larry: Box Office Bust, Pimp My Ride, Avatar, the majority of movie games...yet you continue to say this is one of the worst games for 360 - Why?
I personally like the game. Everyone keeps comparing it to Mass Effect but really, in all honesty, its more of a cross between Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory and the Hitman games. SC:CT was a cut above and well polished, Hitman was rather crude, but quite fun to play the stealth aspect rather than the run & gun.

My main concerns with AP are

1. Lip syncing. Ugh. I had to look away every time a character spoke my first play through. Second time I was used to it.

2. Kinda glitchy in that sometimes I got stuck next to a wall or didn't get the A option to open the secret passage or use zip line to continue the game and had to restart.

3. Instead of having a straightforward way to play the game for achievements, it appears to have been rather kludged together. I mean, to be able to totally miss SIE, kill of Albatross, and not be able to annoy Heck to turn you in, was rather nearsighted. The end path should not have been left up to default. And to have to play through AGAIN, for a 5 point achievement really blows.

4. Aiming is rather crude, and thius may be a deal breaker for a lot of people. No matter how much I slow down my cursor movement, I always tend to overshoot either direction, and before you know it, my chain fire is up. Either that, or I need a new controller.

But, overall, the game is quite fun to play, once you get the hang of it. I didn't realize but my first playthrough, I picked my own class instead of going recruit, and the second time, playing as recruit, I did notice how much more difficult the game is without those starting stat points. DEFINITELY start on easy/recruit, finish up a bunch of cheeves on easy/veteran and the do the hard/veteran to mop up.

Thanks for the soapbox!

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Old 07-06-2010, 10:07 PM   #13
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Tons of glitches, dumb AI, 2002 graphics, it's like the game was not finished.

All in all, this game has more bad sides than good sides, but the good sides really make up for the bad ones and it averages as a decent game, mostly thanks to good ideas.
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Old 07-07-2010, 12:19 AM   #14
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Tons of glitches, dumb AI, 2002 graphics, it's like the game was not finished.

All in all, this game has more bad sides than good sides, but the good sides really make up for the bad ones and it averages as a decent game, mostly thanks to good ideas.
Stop being a Hypocrite man since I guess you haven't played Fallout 3, Halo 3 ODST, MW2, Read Dead Redemption, Gears series, and ME2 then since they were all unfinished games that had glitches in them.

Fallout 3 wasn't finished until Brotherhood of Steel was availble while glitches made it unplayabale at times. Halo 3 ODST was a rushed game for profit hence the Multiplayer was Halo 3 while it was worth $20. MW2 was barely playable because of all the glitches that people found then abused while its playable now because of the multiple patches that were done. Red Dead Redeption has the most glitches inany game that I have played especially for a Modern game. Gears has a good Campaign with Co-Op while the Multiplayer isn't playable except for Horde. ME2 has glitches that will crash your game then erase that data. AP is a polished game while its surprising that most of the people that are having glitches with it are playing the Reviewer's copy, which is the unfinished version that allows Reviewers to skip parts of the game to meet their Deadlines.

Please explain why you think AP is bad instead of using the same things that people say about AP like bad graphics, glitches, and dumb AI. You do realize that all games have glitches including RPGs while most Run n' Gun shooters have some Bad AI like Halo and MW. The way you describe AP clearly sounds that you haven't played AP at all. I don't care if you Hate or Love it while I do care that you have played the entire game and you don't blame the game for the lack of skill that you have. AP is a very good game while you should play AP since you will only be a Flamer until you play it.
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Old 07-07-2010, 01:06 AM   #15
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I have played several of the games you listed, and I agree they're unfinished games and/or with tons of glitches.
So do not use the 'I have played more games than you' arguments, you have not, and only people with no valid argument resort to ego quarrels.

I did say AP was a 'decent game', which is a positive comment, in case you wondered. But the game still has all those numerous faulty aspects which were mentioned, regardless.

Now bite your tongue.
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Old 07-07-2010, 07:24 AM   #16
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I have played several of the games you listed, and I agree they're unfinished games and/or with tons of glitches.
So do not use the 'I have played more games than you' arguments, you have not, and only people with no valid argument resort to ego quarrels.

I did say AP was a 'decent game', which is a positive comment, in case you wondered. But the game still has all those numerous faulty aspects which were mentioned, regardless.

Now bite your tongue.
You need to bite your tongue since you would rather bad mouth AP for glitches while most people don't encounter any glitches at all. Most of the people that have encounterd glitches in AP were Reviewers that played the Review copy, which allows them to skip parts of the game to meet their Deadlines. You also have played the Real unfinished games like Fallout 3, Halo 3 ODST, MW2, Read Dead Redemption, Gears series, and ME2 while you don't bashed those games for their glitches and problems.

By ou saying that AP is a 'decent game' without supporting it makes that comment into a Neutral Opinion. AP does need improvements while you shouldn't bash a AP for not being Perfect because no game is Perect since every game can be improved and has glitches. I don't care if you Hate or Love AP while I do care that you have played the entire game, you don't blame the game for the lack of skill that you have, and that you don't Mindlessly bash it for no reason. Go somewhere else to Flame.

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Old 07-07-2010, 09:53 AM   #17
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I would give this game a decent at the very best. The only reason I had to buy this game was because of the RPG element and the story, I had imagined it to be similar to Mass Effect. In the RPG aspect I do believe it was interesting.

One huge problem I had with the game was the "mini-games". At first it seemed okay, but it got repetitive very fast. By the time you level up they get longer with less time. I was literally stuck on levels for hours trying to get past the mini-game. It felt more like work to me then a game.

The AI was also something that seemed incredibly unfinished or broken. A few weeks prior I had dusted off my PS2 to play some old games, one of them being James Bond Nightfire (2002). The two AI's seemed to perform similarly to each other, sometimes simply standing there while I shoot them, or not react at all. I understand that everything is not perfect either and I have experienced this on other games..AP had them on every level..multiple times (and for arguement sake, I bought my copy at Gamestop for full retail, it was not a "review copy to make deadlines").

The graphics aren't exactly up to par with what most people believe is standard nowadays, but it's still acceptable.

As for the other games you mentioned.
Yes, they all have glitches.
Yes, they all have problems.
Yes, sometimes they were unplayable.
Nothing is ever perfect.

"Fallout 3 wasn't finished until Brotherhood of Steel was availble while glitches made it unplayabale at times."

Fallout was very enjoyable even without any of the DLC. I do not see why you are saying it wasn't "finished" until BoS was released. They decided to continue the story further for the people who wanted to pay, end of story.

"Halo 3 ODST was a rushed game for profit hence the Multiplayer was Halo 3 while it was worth $20."

I don't see how that makes a game unplayable? Its unplayable because they decided to give you Halo 3 Multiplayer with all maps? ODST was to me more story oriented then anything else. Maybe a bit pricey if it were just to include the ODST and Firefight. But its well worth the money when the Halo maps were thrown in.

"MW2 was barely playable because of all the glitches that people found then abused while its playable now because of the multiple patches that were done."

Glitches happen. Glitches get fixed. While somethings in AP can be fixed with a patch others you have to deal with everytime you play it.

"Red Dead Redeption has the most glitches inany game that I have played especially for a Modern game."

I do not know what you are talking about. I've played RDR twice through the story and multiplayer and in that time I've encountered maybe one freeze (after almost 24 hours of continuous play).

"Gears has a good Campaign with Co-Op while the Multiplayer isn't playable except for Horde."

Multiplayer isn't playable. It isn't playable because of the way it works? Or because you are killed too much?

"ME2 has glitches that will crash your game then erase that data."

I've never heard of a single time where ME2 crashes and then erases your data. Maybe if you crash you'll lose SOME unsaved progress but it won't go into your hard drive with a vengence just to piss you off and erase everything.

"AP is a polished game while its surprising that most of the people that are having glitches with it are playing the Reviewer's copy, which is the unfinished version that allows Reviewers to skip parts of the game to meet their Deadlines."

I don't think I would call AP a polished game at all. It has redeeming qualities but the cons still outweigh the pros. Using your "Reviewer's copy" excuse, I guess me and all my friends that purchased AP at Gamestop are all "game reviewers that need to meet deadlines", because all of us experienced the same glitches, quirks, and problems.
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:42 AM   #18
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@ GSDrag

I see that you have played unfinished games like Fallout 3, Halo 3 ODST, MW2, Read Dead Redemption, Gears series, and ME2 while you do bash AP since you think that its a Mediocore game. All I see is you bashing AP for having similarities to games like mini-games which appear in all RPGs. You bash the grpahics for AP while ME, Fallout 3, Dragon Age, and Gears have the same exact graphics of AP. You can't moan about graphics until the norm is every game looking like Crysis, Uncharted 2, and God of War 3.

Fallout 3's story wasn't finished because all of the Bethesda games can be played in Free Roam even if the story was over hence why Brotherhood of Steel was the Real Ending for it.

ODST was unplayable since nobody cares to play the old Halo 3 Multiplayer for a new game like ODST. I'm sure you wouldn't want to play Reach if it was completely like Halo 3. ODST should only have been worth $20 since it was a short game hence it was called an Expansion pack while the old Halo 3 Multiplayer was keep and most of the people that played it already paid for all of the maps.

MW2 is still glitchy while its playable now while the first 4 months were a glitchfest that MS didn't want IW to repair it. I can easily deal with glitches while you can't since you're moaning about the no existent glitches in AP.

Red Dead Redemption hs many glitches including flying horses/people, horses disappearing into the ground, the whole freezing the game, and now seeing the game code because of the new Co-Op DLC. Its a glitchy game in general while the Reviewers don't comment since THQ bribed them with money.

Gears Multiplayer is unplayable since most of the player are Modders and Hackers that abuse their Host powers while I doubt that you have played it then.

When ME2 first came out tons of people had glitches that would crash your game then erase that data while many Reviewers commented about that. That still happens while it doesn't happen as much now.

All I hear you is bash AP for problems while you praise games that have worse problems like Fallout 3, Halo 3 ODST, MW2, Read Dead Redemption, Gears series, and ME2. If you actually played AP then you wouldn't be saying the same exact things that most of the Reviewers have while they played the Review copy of it because its an unfinished product that allows them to skip parts of the game to meet their Deadlines. The Review Copy is what most publications do since they get a Free gameeven if its unfinished while I guess you haven't talked to a Gaming, Movie, or Book Journalist then. I don't care if you Hate or Love it while I do care that you have played the entire game, you don't blame the game for the lack of skill that you have, and that you don't Mindlessly bash it for no reason. Go somewhere else to Flame.
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Old 07-08-2010, 06:06 AM   #19
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I see that you have played unfinished games like Fallout 3, Halo 3 ODST, MW2, Read Dead Redemption, Gears series, and ME2 while you do bash AP since you think that its a Mediocore game. All I see is you bashing AP for having similarities to games like mini-games which appear in all RPGs. You bash the grpahics for AP while ME, Fallout 3, Dragon Age, and Gears have the same exact graphics of AP. You can't moan about graphics until the norm is every game looking like Crysis, Uncharted 2, and God of War 3.
Yes, I have played all those games. I disliked the mini-games because of the difficulty of them. Mini-games are supposed to be little things that give you a change of pace in a game. The 12 piece circuit matching, lock picking, and hacking would be perfectly fine (with the hacking being an interesting idea as well) IF they simply gave you a time equivalent to the difficulty. The games became more like work at times, not something you're supposed to feel when playing a video game..

As for the graphics, I said that they were acceptable. I didn't "moan" or bash them. But they are certainly not the same as Mass Effect, Gears, or Fallout.

And for comparison..Alpha Protocol

Fallout 3
Gears of War 2
Mass Effect 2


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Fallout 3's story wasn't finished because all of the Bethesda games can be played in Free Roam even if the story was over hence why Brotherhood of Steel was the Real Ending for it.
I do not understand..Have you played Fallout? The original Fallout ending stopped you from playing there was no free roam to be had. BoS added that along with additional optional storyline.

And if that is not what you meant (your sentences are hard to decipher). Just because Bethesda has games that allow you keep playing past the ending doesn't mean that they are bound by some law to have all their games like that.

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ODST was unplayable since nobody cares to play the old Halo 3 Multiplayer for a new game like ODST. I'm sure you wouldn't want to play Reach if it was completely like Halo 3. ODST should only have been worth $20 since it was a short game hence it was called an Expansion pack while the old Halo 3 Multiplayer was keep and most of the people that played it already paid for all of the maps.
Please do explain how ODST is unplayable because it included all the Halo 3 multiplayer map packs (including an unreleased pack). And nobody cares about Halo 3 multiplayer? I guess that explains why Halo 3 remains at the top (#2 behind MW2) of XBL's activity charts.

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MW2 is still glitchy while its playable now while the first 4 months were a glitchfest that MS didn't want IW to repair it. I can easily deal with glitches while you can't since you're moaning about the no existent glitches in AP.
"A glitch is a short-lived fault.."
I'll agree that MW2 had it's fairshare of glitches. But that has since been done away with and fixed. I don't know where you get information from...Microsoft never told IW not to fix the glitches. In fact they banned the people who continously exploited them to keep the game playable for the time being while IW worked on a patch.

You are also comparing a multiplayer experience with a singleplayer one. People will always try to find new glitches to get an upper hand online. So unless AP has some hidden online gameplay they are seperate things. Online gameplay is also unique in that it is not 100% controled, there can always be something that the developers never expected would happen. Whereas they can control the single player experience more and thus make sure there are no major problems.

AP was also delayed almost an entire year. During that year long period they were supposed to improve the game, polish it, and test it. Or at least they were supposed to. I really wonder what they did during that time. Or what kind of testers (if any) they had.

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Red Dead Redemption hs many glitches including flying horses/people, horses disappearing into the ground, the whole freezing the game, and now seeing the game code because of the new Co-Op DLC. Its a glitchy game in general while the Reviewers don't comment since THQ bribed them with money.
I've never heard of or experienced any of this. I've been through the story mode twice and played multiplayer. You also seem quite intent on believing that everyone is bribed to write a good review. If you believe that then, why didn't Sega give out bribes for a good review?

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Gears Multiplayer is unplayable since most of the player are Modders and Hackers that abuse their Host powers while I doubt that you have played it then.
The mulitplayer isn't broken or unplayable at all. Its all have to do with the way Gears handles their online. If the host has a bad upload speed then everyone else will have a bad connection while the host is flawless. There are no such things as "host powers". Its not like Epic Games makes you a god everytime you are the host. And for the people that have normal decent connections there is no advantage for the host, he's just another player.

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When ME2 first came out tons of people had glitches that would crash your game then erase that data while many Reviewers commented about that. That still happens while it doesn't happen as much now.
Please enlighten me and show me this supposed erase glitch. Because I certainly haven't heard anything about it.

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Originally Posted by Blueprotoss View Post
All I hear you is bash AP for problems while you praise games that have worse problems like Fallout 3, Halo 3 ODST, MW2, Read Dead Redemption, Gears series, and ME2. If you actually played AP then you wouldn't be saying the same exact things that most of the Reviewers have while they played the Review copy of it because its an unfinished product that allows them to skip parts of the game to meet their Deadlines. The Review Copy is what most publications do since they get a Free gameeven if its unfinished while I guess you haven't talked to a Gaming, Movie, or Book Journalist then. I don't care if you Hate or Love it while I do care that you have played the entire game, you don't blame the game for the lack of skill that you have, and that you don't Mindlessly bash it for no reason. Go somewhere else to Flame.
I have played AP. I have finished AP. I don't have a "review copy", I have the regular retail version that any old schmuck can pick up. I experienced the most glitches in my lifetime on a supposedly "finished and polished" game. No other game has given me the trouble AP did. So I am a bit confused when you say that Fallout, Halo, MW2, and all those other games have bigger problems then AP.

I have played the entire game...it looked good on paper. It was an interesting idea. It had potential, I'll give it that. But it was executed poorly.

I am also not "mindlessly bash it for no reason". I explained everything and my reasons for it.
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Old 07-08-2010, 11:27 AM   #20
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What exactly are these glitches that everyone is talking about?

Because I finished the game (twice now) and have yet to find one.
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Old 07-08-2010, 12:03 PM   #21
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@Blueprotoss: It is fine that you really like AP, but you are in complete denial of its shortcomings it seems. I really enjoy it too- I like the story, conversations, mission structure and the way your choices really influence the story. But the shooting/fighting mechanics, AI, animations, graphics, and so on, are real lacklusters.

No matter what, the other games you are mentioning, are just much, much better overall than AP. The other two RPG's you mention are in a totally different league, and the only thing you bash them for are problems that I have never even heard of. MW2 and RDR certainly have/had a few glitches, but they have never been unplayable because of them- something I don't believe AP is either, but it does lack a lot of qualities, which keeps it from ever being anything more than a decent game.

Besides, Blueprotoss, you are the only one here who comes near flaming anything/anyone. GSDrag, explained how he felt about the game and gave his reasons for it. Then you begin explaining why his opinions are "wrong", because "this and that game also have glitches and this and that game is broken". This is the AP forum- why should he comment on other games than AP here? And why bring other games into this that doesn't even come close to showing problems to the same extent as AP? Besides, as AP is a single player game only, you should really compare it to MW2's SP experience rather than MP.

Like/dislike the game for what it is, but you cannot compare it to games like RDR, Mass Effect, Fallout 3 and the like. Yes, they have their few shortcomings and glitches, but in general they do form a complete package of quality which AP just doesn't. But I'm certainly enjoying AP anyway, though- I'm just not kidding myself about its apparent problems
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Old 07-08-2010, 05:13 PM   #22
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I don't understand. What glitches are you talking about? I didn't experience any. Fallout 3 was, in my experience, by far the glitchiest game of those mentioned. It's still pretty much my favorite game, but sometimes I specifically avoid certain situations for fear of some glitch or other fucking up my game.

Seriously, what glitches have you experienced in AP?
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Old 07-08-2010, 06:00 PM   #23
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Okay, the only shortcomings in this game that I find are the graphics, animations, and very linear level design. Other then that this game is awesome!!! I can't really complain about those issues either because they do nothing to break this game at all! It's only nit-picking.

I have found NO glitches what so ever. The enemy A.I seems fine to me, they go for cover and sometimes try and flank me, and they also dodge a lot of my melee shots as well which is cool.

About the shooting complaints.....THIS IS AN RPG!!! The shooting gets better and more precise as you keep playing and leveling up! It is suppose to suck in the beginning of the game!

Pacing, dialogue, and story are all top notch! Actions and consequences are perfectly executed throughout and conversation options are perfect!

Maybe it is because you guys play the shit out of your xbox's but I have never had any glitches like some of your are upset about!?
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Old 07-08-2010, 06:13 PM   #24
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When trying to perform certain actions, using zipline, turn on television, or using some other device prompted by the -button, sometimes the -button doesn't show and you cannot perform the action unless you reload a save. And seeing how far back a checkpoint can be at times, this can be a hassle.
Also, the cover-system is pretty flawed. Someplaces you just dont seem to be able to take cover, although it seems like you can, or you have to position yourself just right for it to happen.
The AI is just too dumb. Maneuvring up and down stairs even though you are shooting at them and standing in the open.
And even though I play with the lowest sensitivity it can be hard to aim properly, because it moves to fast, especially when performing the chain shot action. Also, the camera controls aren't responsive enough in tighter spaces.

Some are glitches, some are design flaws, but AP just has more of these than the biggest games out there, and these things hold it back. I'm still enjoying it, especially since the choices and dialogue system works so well, and I also find the stealth to be good.

But apparently glitches appear to some people and not others. I have never experienced anything in Fallout 3 that would "fuck up" my game. I haven't even seen the "flying people"- glitch in RDR or seen people instead of animals (cougarmen and whatnot) or the other way around.

AP has some high points, but, unfortunately, also a lot of low points. It was far from meeting the expectations from before launch, and I think it should have been a smoother experience in a lot of areas. Like or dislike it for what it is- a flawed but, in some aspects, also a fun experience. My opinion
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Old 07-08-2010, 06:21 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ink129 View Post
When trying to perform certain actions, using zipline, turn on television, or using some other device prompted by the -button, sometimes the -button doesn't show and you cannot perform the action unless you reload a save. And seeing how far back a checkpoint can be at times, this can be a hassle.
Also, the cover-system is pretty flawed. Someplaces you just dont seem to be able to take cover, although it seems like you can, or you have to position yourself just right for it to happen.
The AI is just too dumb. Maneuvring up and down stairs even though you are shooting at them and standing in the open.
And even though I play with the lowest sensitivity it can be hard to aim properly, because it moves to fast, especially when performing the chain shot action. Also, the camera controls aren't responsive enough in tighter spaces.

Some are glitches, some are design flaws, but AP just has more of these than the biggest games out there, and these things hold it back. I'm still enjoying it, especially since the choices and dialogue system works so well, and I also find the stealth to be good.

But apparently glitches appear to some people and not others. I have never experienced anything in Fallout 3 that would "fuck up" my game. I haven't even seen the "flying people"- glitch in RDR or seen people instead of animals (cougarmen and whatnot) or the other way around.

AP has some high points, but, unfortunately, also a lot of low points. It was far from meeting the expectations from before launch, and I think it should have been a smoother experience in a lot of areas. Like or dislike it for what it is- a flawed but, in some aspects, also a fun experience. My opinion
I see your point and I respect your opinions 100%. I too
have also never found any glitches in RDR at all!
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Old 07-08-2010, 11:15 PM   #26
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Yes, there are a few bugs. I encounted about two in 4 full playthroughs. I can live with that. This website has bugs too because I had a complete novel written in response and lost it. I can live with that as well. I've seen the glitches you talk about in RDR, cougarmen and stuff. I even got to ride a woman in multiplayer instead of a horse, quite comical. And before the patch, I couldn't stay connected for more than five minutes. Now THAT, in my opinion, "breaks" the game.

Cover system only works if you are FACING the wall you want to cover behind. Took me a while to get the hang of it too. And yes, if your head is sticking out of cover, you can get noticed/shot. Gears of War was pretty much the same way.

I too had difficutly aiming. I tried turning down sensitivity, which helped a lot, but not completely. I bought a new controller and now its silky smooth. I'm not suggesting people run out and buy a new one, but, it should be replaced every so often. Might even help other games as well.

Dumb AI? Well sure. If they made them smarter, people would bash the game cuz its too difficult. The game isn't about shooting people, its an RPG. You develop your character and his abilities to reach the end of the story, with guys that shoot at you put there to impede your progress, nothing more.

Camera angles? Ever play the Tomb Raider games? Need I say more? And THAT series is still going strong....

I think if people would just sit down and play this game FOR WHAT IT IS, and not WHAT THEY THINK IT SHOULD BE, this is a very fun, entertaining, engrossing, and worthwhile game.

Every fan needs to write and let SEGA and Obsidian know they enjoyed the game and want more. Can't hurt. And look what it did for Firefly!
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:48 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSDrag View Post
I have played AP. I have finished AP. I don't have a "review copy", I have the regular retail version that any old schmuck can pick up. I experienced the most glitches in my lifetime on a supposedly "finished and polished" game. No other game has given me the trouble AP did. So I am a bit confused when you say that Fallout, Halo, MW2, and all those other games have bigger problems then AP.

I have played the entire game...it looked good on paper. It was an interesting idea. It had potential, I'll give it that. But it was executed poorly.

I am also not "mindlessly bash it for no reason". I explained everything and my reasons for it.
I haven't experienced any glitches in AP while most people other then Reviewers haven't experienced those glitches. You can continue moaning about AP having glitches while that could be your lcak of skill or your 360 needs to be repaired. You shouldn't be moaning about glitches in AP since they aren't game breaking and every game that comes out has glitches anyway.

I have done 5 walkthroughs in AP while I haven't experienced any gliches at all while I have a Brand new replacement 360 Elite. You can say that AP could be poorly made while I doubt that you have designed a game and have a profit.

You're mindlessly bashing AP for no reason since you only have an Opinion while you can't push your Opinion onto others and make it a Fact. Opinions are Opinions and Facts are Facts while no Opinion is a Fact. Go somewher else to Flame.

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Originally Posted by Ink129 View Post
@Blueprotoss: It is fine that you really like AP, but you are in complete denial of its shortcomings it seems. I really enjoy it too- I like the story, conversations, mission structure and the way your choices really influence the story. But the shooting/fighting mechanics, AI, animations, graphics, and so on, are real lacklusters.

No matter what, the other games you are mentioning, are just much, much better overall than AP. The other two RPG's you mention are in a totally different league, and the only thing you bash them for are problems that I have never even heard of. MW2 and RDR certainly have/had a few glitches, but they have never been unplayable because of them- something I don't believe AP is either, but it does lack a lot of qualities, which keeps it from ever being anything more than a decent game.

Besides, Blueprotoss, you are the only one here who comes near flaming anything/anyone. GSDrag, explained how he felt about the game and gave his reasons for it. Then you begin explaining why his opinions are "wrong", because "this and that game also have glitches and this and that game is broken". This is the AP forum- why should he comment on other games than AP here? And why bring other games into this that doesn't even come close to showing problems to the same extent as AP? Besides, as AP is a single player game only, you should really compare it to MW2's SP experience rather than MP.

Like/dislike the game for what it is, but you cannot compare it to games like RDR, Mass Effect, Fallout 3 and the like. Yes, they have their few shortcomings and glitches, but in general they do form a complete package of quality which AP just doesn't. But I'm certainly enjoying AP anyway, though- I'm just not kidding myself about its apparent problems
The one thats in denial is you since you think that your Opinion is Fact. Opinions are Opinions and Facts are Facts while no Opinion is a Fact. Don't confuse things like shooting/fighting mechanics, AI, animations, and graphics being bad while we can say that about most games since we have different Opinions and there's no Perfect game anyways. The shooting/fighting mechanics is based off of your charter stats hence its mainly a RPG with a western theme hence that the weaponry is guns. AI can be said about every game especially with Run n' Gun shooters and RPGs. THe AI is always easy when you play on Easy while the AI has different tacics and damage output when the difficulty is raised. Animations in most games can't acheivve the level that Movies can do while games are limited because of what platform that they are running on as well. Graphics in most games aren't that amazing either hence why only a few games have the best graphics in games like Crysis, Uncharted 2, and God of War 3. You can't moan aboout AP since its one of the few games thats almost Epic level on the Unreal Engine.

RPGs are still RPGs while ME, Fallout, and Alpha Protocol are Western RPGs. ME1, Fallout 3, and AP are all Action RPGs that require you to shoot guns while being stat based based those characters need to learn how to use those weapons profficeintly. I'm not bashing other games for glitches since no game is Perfect while every game has glitches anyways. MW2 and RDR still have glitches to this day. MW2 still has those messed up hit boxes and auto lock bullets/aim. RDR still has the once in a while glitches like flying horses with people, horses disappearing by going underground, and my game freezing. I'm just pointing out things not bashing games.

I'm not Flaming since I'm not forcing my Opinion onto others while I'm not tryong to make my Opinion into Fact. GSDrag is only Flaming since he just hates AP for having glitches while he shouldn't be playing any games since all games have glitches. His Opinion is Wrong because he was trying to say that his Opinion was Fact while it was only his Opinion. I bring up other gamess since people that ahte AP only moan about glitches while every game has glitches.

I can easliy compare AP to RDR, ME, and Fallout 3 since they all have glitches and I can form my own Opinions. AP is very familiar to ME1 since they both required stats to be better with your skills/weapons, a like/dislike system with characters, and a dialogue/choice system. I have throughly enjoyed AP while I'm just saying that I haven't experienced any glitches in all 5 of my walkthroughs. I'm not saying that there are no glitches while most of the gamers that have played AP haven't experienced them like you haven't experienced any glitches in RDR, ME2, Fallout 3, and possibly more game. I can easily respect you while you haven't respected me at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitnoid View Post
Yes, there are a few bugs. I encounted about two in 4 full playthroughs. I can live with that. This website has bugs too because I had a complete novel written in response and lost it. I can live with that as well. I've seen the glitches you talk about in RDR, cougarmen and stuff. I even got to ride a woman in multiplayer instead of a horse, quite comical. And before the patch, I couldn't stay connected for more than five minutes. Now THAT, in my opinion, "breaks" the game.

Cover system only works if you are FACING the wall you want to cover behind. Took me a while to get the hang of it too. And yes, if your head is sticking out of cover, you can get noticed/shot. Gears of War was pretty much the same way.

I too had difficutly aiming. I tried turning down sensitivity, which helped a lot, but not completely. I bought a new controller and now its silky smooth. I'm not suggesting people run out and buy a new one, but, it should be replaced every so often. Might even help other games as well.

Dumb AI? Well sure. If they made them smarter, people would bash the game cuz its too difficult. The game isn't about shooting people, its an RPG. You develop your character and his abilities to reach the end of the story, with guys that shoot at you put there to impede your progress, nothing more.

Camera angles? Ever play the Tomb Raider games? Need I say more? And THAT series is still going strong....

I think if people would just sit down and play this game FOR WHAT IT IS, and not WHAT THEY THINK IT SHOULD BE, this is a very fun, entertaining, engrossing, and worthwhile game.

Every fan needs to write and let SEGA and Obsidian know they enjoyed the game and want more. Can't hurt. And look what it did for Firefly!
Agreed. People need to play the game the way it should be played without criticizing the game to be Perfect, which no game is. People also do need to realize that AP is an Action RPG that has guns not a Run n' Gun shooter like CoD or Halo. People would have fun with AP while people criticize games to get an Ego boost while most of them aren't qualified to do that. We should write a letter for support of AP to Sega and Obsidian while letters did work for somethings like Jericho, Serenity, Battlestar Galactica, and X-Files. THe Consumer creates the Demand while companies Supply use with it.

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Old 07-09-2010, 02:25 PM   #28
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@Blueprotoss: How is it that, according to you, people who disagree with you are trying to make their opinions into facts? GSDrag wrote that he thought AP was a decent game, but according to his experience there were a number of flaws in the game. He wrote his post entirely from his own point of view.
I'm doing the same thing- I'm playing the game at the moment and I have opinions about it too. Where does any of us state that our opinions are facts? Please point it out to me.
It is you who states things like Gears of War multiplayer being unplayable- that sounds like an opinion you are trying to make into a fact. What I'm saying is, if I'm not being clear about opinion or fact, then you aren't either.

Therefore to be clear as possible- I am not stating my opinions to be facts. To me it seems like it is you, who cannot live with our opinions of the game even though we think it is decent enough. We just find it has more bugs and flaws than it should to be a great game.

Possible minor spoilers in next paragraph:

I experienced 3 glitches/bugs in about 30-40 minutes af game time that were quite annoying. In the warehouse level in Rome I got stuck in a firefight. I was aiming and a guy came up to me and started punching and I beat him down, but after this I could not move. I could aim down the sights and turn the camera, but I was helpless when the grenades came flying because I could not run from them. Even though I pushed every button possible on the controller I was aggravatingly stuck and died.
I retried and cleared the warehouse as I came to a safe. I was supposed to be able to hack/lockpick it, but the -promt didn't show up no matter how I positioned myself. So I retried again.
In the level after this I went into the ruins. The last part where you are supposed to protect the computer it glitched too. I killed the incoming enemies and successfully protected the computer and... nothing happened. No objective accomplished or anything. I checked and double-checked the area for a hidden enemy, but no one was there. I waited for 5 minutes after this but I had to retry... again.

My opinion is: annoying bugs like these happening in such a short time span isn't acceptable, and keeps the game from being anything more than decent. I have personally never experienced anything like this in games such as Fallout 3 or Mass Effect 1+2(or many other games except maybe Alone in the Dark and a few others- all games I disliked), so please do not bring other games into this, as it doesn't help getting your point across with me.

Again: I find the game ok, decent, somewhat good etc. I just think it is a shame that it has so many flaws and bugs/glitches, because these is what hold it back. The game has such potential but doesn't live up to it. I'm not asking it to be perfect, but I would have liked the makers of this game to have been more thorough in finding the numerous bugs and been more critical about some of the design decisions- still my opinion. I enjoy it in some aspects, though, and certainly will play it through to the end.

I would still like you to explain how my earlier posts seems like stated facts, though. Or at least why your opinions, Blueprotoss, seems more like opinions than mine do, because I really went out of my way to clarify that I'm only stating my own opinions in this post- something I believe I did in my earlier posts too. People write their own opinions on forums like this, and that is what I have done here- opinions that seem relevant to the thread
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Old 07-10-2010, 03:46 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Ink129 View Post
@Blueprotoss: How is it that, according to you, people who disagree with you are trying to make their opinions into facts? GSDrag wrote that he thought AP was a decent game, but according to his experience there were a number of flaws in the game. He wrote his post entirely from his own point of view.
I'm doing the same thing- I'm playing the game at the moment and I have opinions about it too. Where does any of us state that our opinions are facts? Please point it out to me.
It is you who states things like Gears of War multiplayer being unplayable- that sounds like an opinion you are trying to make into a fact. What I'm saying is, if I'm not being clear about opinion or fact, then you aren't either.

Therefore to be clear as possible- I am not stating my opinions to be facts. To me it seems like it is you, who cannot live with our opinions of the game even though we think it is decent enough. We just find it has more bugs and flaws than it should to be a great game.

Possible minor spoilers in next paragraph:

I experienced 3 glitches/bugs in about 30-40 minutes af game time that were quite annoying. In the warehouse level in Rome I got stuck in a firefight. I was aiming and a guy came up to me and started punching and I beat him down, but after this I could not move. I could aim down the sights and turn the camera, but I was helpless when the grenades came flying because I could not run from them. Even though I pushed every button possible on the controller I was aggravatingly stuck and died.
I retried and cleared the warehouse as I came to a safe. I was supposed to be able to hack/lockpick it, but the -promt didn't show up no matter how I positioned myself. So I retried again.
In the level after this I went into the ruins. The last part where you are supposed to protect the computer it glitched too. I killed the incoming enemies and successfully protected the computer and... nothing happened. No objective accomplished or anything. I checked and double-checked the area for a hidden enemy, but no one was there. I waited for 5 minutes after this but I had to retry... again.

My opinion is: annoying bugs like these happening in such a short time span isn't acceptable, and keeps the game from being anything more than decent. I have personally never experienced anything like this in games such as Fallout 3 or Mass Effect 1+2(or many other games except maybe Alone in the Dark and a few others- all games I disliked), so please do not bring other games into this, as it doesn't help getting your point across with me.

Again: I find the game ok, decent, somewhat good etc. I just think it is a shame that it has so many flaws and bugs/glitches, because these is what hold it back. The game has such potential but doesn't live up to it. I'm not asking it to be perfect, but I would have liked the makers of this game to have been more thorough in finding the numerous bugs and been more critical about some of the design decisions- still my opinion. I enjoy it in some aspects, though, and certainly will play it through to the end.

I would still like you to explain how my earlier posts seems like stated facts, though. Or at least why your opinions, Blueprotoss, seems more like opinions than mine do, because I really went out of my way to clarify that I'm only stating my own opinions in this post- something I believe I did in my earlier posts too. People write their own opinions on forums like this, and that is what I have done here- opinions that seem relevant to the thread
Its sad that you criticize AP for having some glitches while games like RDR, Fallout, ME, and Dragon Age have game breaking ones. Every game has glitches while if you bash a game because of glitches then you shouldn't be playing any games at then. I haven't had a glitch appear to me in AP while I have 5 walkthroughs under my belt. The glitch of you getting stuck in one place happens in most of the Unreal Engine games since thats a flaw that the Unreal Engine has. The glitches in AP are because of the Unreal Engine while I doubt that you have played any Unreal games like Dead Space, Gears, Unreal Tournament, and Bioshock then. Gears Online is unplayable hence why people mainly use Shotguns to counter the God powers of the Host and Lag issues. If Gears Online wasn't unplayable then it would be played more and would be listed on the Top 5 games played on XBL instead of being in 9th place. I guess you haven't played that much of Gears then. Btw GSDrag didn't say AP was a decent game while he only bashed AP for no reason at all. Now you're being a normal person since you aren't making your Opinions into Fact or forcing your Opinions while you still need to respect the Opinions of others though.

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Old 07-10-2010, 10:51 AM   #30
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@Blueprotoss: GSDrag wrote this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSDrag View Post
I would give this game a decent at the very best. The only reason I had to buy this game was because of the RPG element and the story, I had imagined it to be similar to Mass Effect. In the RPG aspect I do believe it was interesting.
And after this he reasons why he feels like he does about the game. I cannot see how this is bashing the game and flaming...

By the way, I respect other people's opinions, but you are being pretty hypocritical here. You want me and others to write things like "I think", "in my opinion", "from my point of view" and so on, otherwise we are apparently making opinions into fact. You however, seem to have the luxury to skip these phrases without "making opinion into fact". How is that?

You wrote things like:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueprotoss View Post
Fallout 3 wasn't finished until Brotherhood of Steel was availble while glitches made it unplayabale at times. Halo 3 ODST was a rushed game for profit hence the Multiplayer was Halo 3 while it was worth $20. MW2 was barely playable because of all the glitches that people found then abused while its playable now because of the multiple patches that were done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueprotoss View Post
AP is a polished game while its surprising that most of the people that are having glitches with it are playing the Reviewer's copy, which is the unfinished version that allows Reviewers to skip parts of the game to meet their Deadlines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueprotoss View Post
You need to bite your tongue since you would rather bad mouth AP for glitches while most people don't encounter any glitches at all. Most of the people that have encounterd glitches in AP were Reviewers that played the Review copy, which allows them to skip parts of the game to meet their Deadlines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueprotoss View Post
Fallout 3's story wasn't finished because all of the Bethesda games can be played in Free Roam even if the story was over hence why Brotherhood of Steel was the Real Ending for it.

ODST was unplayable since nobody cares to play the old Halo 3 Multiplayer for a new game like ODST. I'm sure you wouldn't want to play Reach if it was completely like Halo 3. ODST should only have been worth $20 since it was a short game hence it was called an Expansion pack while the old Halo 3 Multiplayer was keep and most of the people that played it already paid for all of the maps.

MW2 is still glitchy while its playable now while the first 4 months were a glitchfest that MS didn't want IW to repair it. I can easily deal with glitches while you can't since you're moaning about the no existent glitches in AP.

Red Dead Redemption hs many glitches including flying horses/people, horses disappearing into the ground, the whole freezing the game, and now seeing the game code because of the new Co-Op DLC. Its a glitchy game in general while the Reviewers don't comment since THQ bribed them with money.

Gears Multiplayer is unplayable since most of the player are Modders and Hackers that abuse their Host powers while I doubt that you have played it then.

When ME2 first came out tons of people had glitches that would crash your game then erase that data while many Reviewers commented about that. That still happens while it doesn't happen as much now.

All I hear you is bash AP for problems while you praise games that have worse problems like Fallout 3, Halo 3 ODST, MW2, Read Dead Redemption, Gears series, and ME2.
I could find more, but this will do. These are your opinions, but how is it that you are not trying to make these things into facts?
To sum up on some of it:
THQ bribed reviewers for money? Fallout 3, MW2, RDR, and so on, have bigger problems than AP? Most people experience no glitches at all in AP? AP is a polished game and most people who are experiencing glitches are playing the reviewers' copies? Fallout 3 was unplayable at times until the Brotherhood of Steel DLC came out?

How can I see that these statements aren't your opinions or make-belief which you aren't trying to make into facts? It seems to me that you think these things are facts- at least, you portray them that way. How is it that this is worse than what I and others have written before?

I'm writing my arguments and opinions from my own experiences with the game, and most of the time you are not. Did you witness THQ bribe the reviewers at IGN, Gamespot or wherever? Have you asked most people who are experiencing glitches in AP whether or not they are playing the reviewer's copies? I'm certainly not. Where do you get these things from?

My point is: yes, all games have glitches of some kind. But my experience with AP is that it has more than most games- several glitches of several character, and they happen quite often. I have mentioned the ones I have experienced in earlier posts, so I'm not going to do it again.
And also, do you believe AP has glitches at all, or do you believe it is glitch-free? Because you are contradicting yourself on this part in your posts- at one point you state that AP doesn't have glitches at all, but you are also saying that all games have glitches. Which one is it?

To sum up on my questions to you, Blueprotoss:

After reading the part with quotes from your own post above, how am I ,and others on this forum, trying to make our opinions into fact any more than you are? And don't start quoting my earlier posts, and prove I'm doing the same thing because maybe I am at times (doing the same as you)- I'll admit that. You just try to answer me how my posts are worse than yours in the opinion/fact-aspect. Enlighten me please.

In your opinion: does AP have glitches of any character at all, or doesn't it? Please be clear on this now. Otherwise, why are you comparing it to other, of your opinion by the way, glitchy games?
Don't worry, if you answer "yes, AP has glitches" then I won't take it as having forced my opinion onto you. I know you are not admitting to agree with my opinions about AP, so don't consider this "a trap" of some sort

We are having an argument, discussing, and I'm not trying to "lure you over to the dark side" or anything. I'm just putting my points of view onto the table and arguing with what experience I have. I respect you opinion, but I do think you are being a bit hypocritical, though. The whole opinion/fact thing, which you are not being better at seperating than any other in this thread, and the accusing people of flaming and bashing, even though they are backing up their points with valid arguments and experiences, is just hypocritical, I think.

If you can enlighten me by answering the above-stated questions then feel free to ask me something back, and I'll answer. If you won't answer them, then I'll consider this discussion closed, because you are being more confusing than clear, right now (in my opinion)
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Last edited by Ink129; 07-10-2010 at 11:07 AM.
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