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Old 06-14-2013, 12:25 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Akuza View Post
I didn't say epic...

Epic was already well known before...

I said his series, gears of war?
He already helped create a bigger series before that. I'm not having a dig at you, just pointing it out.
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:28 PM   #62
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The guy at the store kept asking to the point where I responded in the way that I did.
they can be too damn pushy sometimes..i get to where i just walk out of the store if they dont drop it after ive had to tell them more than once im not interested..
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:30 PM   #63
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He already helped create a bigger series before that. I'm not having a dig at you, just pointing it out.
Oh I get that it's, the other stuff wasn't his "baby" so to speak.

So if he had done just the other stuff, what's to say he may have spoken differently?
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:43 PM   #64
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I read the Destructoid article on this. http://www.destructoid.com/used-game...--256227.phtml

And this is the comment I left

Quote:
Not only do I not think the used game market is bad, I actually think it is GOOD for the gaming industry. Mass Effect, Borderlands, Assassin's Creed 2. Just 3 games that I bought used, and then went on to buy the sequels NEW later on. I doubt I would've tried any of those games had I not picked them up used for about 5-10 each. So from 3 used games sales that they missed out on, they got my money from ME2 (and some of the DLC) ME3 (and all of it's DLC) All Borderlands DLC, BL2 (and the Season Pass) AC Brotherhood, AC Revelations and AC 3. I spent > 250 on content I never would have touched had it not been for used games.

And I'm willing to bet that there are many others out there who have done the same. Go on, kill the used game market completely. See how well your over-budgeted tosh sells when people are more selective about what they want to buy.
(I just want to point out I'm yet to buy The Citadel DLC for ME3, but everything else is right.)

So while the DRM with the X1 doesn't bother me much, getting rid of used games completely does.
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Old 06-14-2013, 01:05 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by i NatrlKilla i View Post
I read the Destructoid article on this. http://www.destructoid.com/used-game...--256227.phtml

And this is the comment I left



(I just want to point out I'm yet to buy The Citadel DLC for ME3, but everything else is right.)

So while the DRM with the X1 doesn't bother me much, getting rid of used games completely does.
The side of the equation publishers refuse to acknowledge when crying about the big bad wolf that is used games. I cannot even begin to list all the games I never would have bought new if not for having tested the waters with that dev or franchise used first.
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Old 06-14-2013, 02:46 PM   #66
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Because of you, this is now the only comment I can make. Thanksabunchpunk.

Someone add Peter Fable to list of formers I don't want to hear opinions from anymore too. He and Cliffy Bee should go into private chat and stay there.
Guh, okay, slow brain day, Peter Fable = Peter Molnutsack of Fable fame?

Yah, though if you sift, a few things that drop from his pie hole are actually pretty intelligent observations if it's not something he is directly selling.

But if he is directly selling he's a fucking loony, I hate anything he says about his own projects. It's all fucking tripe in the end proven by time, guy is a fucking liar through and through.

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Originally Posted by i NatrlKilla i View Post
I read the Destructoid article on this. http://www.destructoid.com/used-game...--256227.phtml

And this is the comment I left

(I just want to point out I'm yet to buy The Citadel DLC for ME3, but everything else is right.)

So while the DRM with the X1 doesn't bother me much, getting rid of used games completely does.
Agreed, Mass Effect was my example of the same. Bought the original used cheap. Fell in love. EA and the Bioware store got hundreds out of me on that series because of that one whim.

There's a reason stores offer cheese samples sometimes. You get a bite, like it, and buy the whole block. Used games are a good source of cheese samples.

Demos alone usually don't do a game justice enough to dive in. i.e. Dead Space. Great game, awful demo.

EDIT: I started reading through it and loved how they are praising Metro Last Light.

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The side of the equation publishers refuse to acknowledge when crying about the big bad wolf that is used games.
Which is foolish of them.

Now what's happening as far as I can tell is that gaming hasn't quite gone into the overhaul mode to find a better balance the movie industry went through back in the 90's. That balance between what they offer and what people are willing to pay for.

When a combination of new tech allowing people to digitally pirate films and share over Napster and whatnot (way fucking easier than copying VHS tapes holy shit, raise your hand if you remember using VHS!!!!), combined with the fact that Hollywood was pumping out just absolute fucking garbage over and over at the time. It hit a wall and exploded when consumers reached a point they simply weren't willing to buy it anymore. There was a glut of absolute garbage films not worth watching, when the high point of a summer is Last Action Hero, you've got fucking problems. So people, rather than pay, pirated.

The film industry realized fucking quick that they can't keep making multimillion dollar garbage ass movies and expect people to pay $13 a head to watch it in theatres. People won't pay for complete shit let alone buy a $10 bag of popcorn on the side to boot.

So they had to start making better movies again, things people were actually willing to shell coin for. Even with the option of getting something cheaper people are generally willing to pay legit for something of better quality and worth their time. People oddly, started going to the theatres again.

This wall hasn't hit gaming yet, but it's in the mail that's for sure. Basically gaming publishers need to get their shit together and find a better balance.

As consumers we're hitting that breaking point where we're willing to shill out what they demand for a product. As they push the envelope on us and our boundaries we sometimes have to push back. Taking away our options and avenues of being able to experience and take products for proper test drives is not cool.

We like our options. This is what it really comes down to, not even the quality of the games developed or the cost we pay, it's the ability to access and ability to experiment to see what we think is worthwhile.

Don't take away our ability to test drive the cheese!
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Old 06-14-2013, 03:22 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Opiate42 View Post
Don't take away our ability to test drive the cheese!
You, sir, are the FIRST overlord on these forums that posted something I both agree with BEYOND 100%, and want to put in my sig. That line is destined for meme-dom(dome?).

I'd make a gif for it myself, but I've never made one in my life so I wouldn't do it justice. I'm thinking of a wedge of cheese with wheels and a PS4-headed guy driving it or something along those lines... another wedge of cheese with an XB1 headed guy crashed into a wall or sitting on the side of the track black-flagged.

I still hope MS alters course at least a little though. I want them to succeed next gen. I've put a lot of work into this tag.
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Old 06-14-2013, 03:43 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by lifeexpectancy View Post
The side of the equation publishers refuse to acknowledge when crying about the big bad wolf that is used games. I cannot even begin to list all the games I never would have bought new if not for having tested the waters with that dev or franchise used first.
and the side of the equation that the used games apologists (and I use the term without any connotative malice) recuse to acknowledge is that IF that was true and used games DID turn in the end a substantial profit to the devs/publishers in a manner as described by you then said devs and the publishers would not accuse it so vehemently


Of course tho Cliffy B was burned by piracy before so he might be a bit more vocal about any such issue
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Old 06-14-2013, 03:44 PM   #69
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Do you have trustworthy friends, because the sharing aspect of the new console might just help you afford more games. If in fact that part is true, it seems like they are trying to save the consumer money and get the developers more money.
If you are talking about the sharing with family stuff. That doesn't earn developers any more money. In fact, it's about 5 times as hurtful for the developers as a game being sold used once, or 3 times a game being sold used twice etc. <_< That's if the game get sold used at all, now everyone could share it with 10 people, 1/10 the number of sales. There's a good reason why PS3 had to limit this a while ago to like 2 activations or something, but you can always request more from Sony if you need it, but yeah, gotta have a reason for doing so.
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Old 06-14-2013, 03:45 PM   #70
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If you are talking about the sharing with family stuff. That doesn't earn developers any more money. In fact, it's about 5 times as hurtful for the developers as a game being sold used once, or 3 times a game being sold used twice etc. <_< There's a good reason why PS3 had to limit this a while ago to like 2 activations or something, but you can always request more from Sony if you need it, but yeah, gotta have a reason for doing so.
Being nobody knows how that feature actually works, you can't really say how it will affect anything yet.
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Old 06-14-2013, 03:47 PM   #71
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Being nobody knows how that feature actually works, you can't really say how it will affect anything yet.
Seeing as how he started out talking about it that way, I still had to comment with the same mentality. If you see my end-point, you see I say I don't think it can really be so, which makes it a bad argument to use. He can't have both publisher friendly and share with 10 people argument in one post.
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Old 06-14-2013, 03:58 PM   #72
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they can be too damn pushy sometimes..i get to where i just walk out of the store if they dont drop it after ive had to tell them more than once im not interested..
See being in the sales biz myslef I doesn't bother me. I just stop them mid sentence and say no thanks. Some peope are just trying to make a living. They don't do it to annoy you. Once you relalize that these people have bills to pay and families to feed you wouldn't be so annoyed.
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Old 06-14-2013, 03:59 PM   #73
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Of course tho Cliffy B was burned by piracy before so he might be a bit more vocal about any such issue
For what, UT2k?

If not for piracy I would've never ran across that game. I certainly wouldn't have given Gears and UTIII a chance if not for it, and I have family members that paid full retail for 2k3 and 2k4 for Mac because they enjoyed the bootlegs of 2k so much and probably would've shrugged it off for Quake if that piracy didn't exist.

Then again we're not everyone else, YMMV, etc. etc.
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Old 06-14-2013, 04:10 PM   #74
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See being in the sales biz myslef I doesn't bother me. I just stop them mid sentence and say no thanks. Some peope are just trying to make a living. They don't do it to annoy you. Once you relalize that these people have bills to pay and families to feed you wouldn't be so annoyed.
your probably right i just feel that one no thank you should be enough....i guess im just an ass like that..
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Old 06-14-2013, 04:13 PM   #75
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and the side of the equation that the used games apologists (and I use the term without any connotative malice) recuse to acknowledge is that IF that was true and used games DID turn in the end a substantial profit to the devs/publishers in a manner as described by you then said devs and the publishers would not accuse it so vehemently


Of course tho Cliffy B was burned by piracy before so he might be a bit more vocal about any such issue
They've accused other things in the past. Used games are just their latest scape goat. L when they no longer have that excuse, another will take its place.
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Old 06-14-2013, 04:17 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Felonious Monk View Post
For what, UT2k?

If not for piracy I would've never ran across that game. I certainly wouldn't have given Gears and UTIII a chance if not for it, and I have family members that paid full retail for 2k3 and 2k4 for Mac because they enjoyed the bootlegs of 2k so much and probably would've shrugged it off for Quake if that piracy didn't exist.

Then again we're not everyone else, YMMV, etc. etc.
no was talking about GOW on pc
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Old 06-14-2013, 04:17 PM   #77
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They've accused other things in the past. Used games are just their latest scape goat. L when they no longer have that excuse, another will take its place.
blaming american consumers for poor sales like square did a while back? its not that they made poor decisions in the making of the games its that americans just didnt blindly go out ant buy their product..
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Old 06-14-2013, 04:22 PM   #78
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When it comes to game salespeople (especially gamestop) one "no thanks" is never enough. I worked for GS, I was repremended more than once for not pushing subscriptions on people who said no before or push used games on everyone.

I appreciate people who will put their foot down and tell the pushy ones to STFU or ask for a manager and politely tell him to stop training his underlings to be pushy vultures
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Old 06-14-2013, 04:24 PM   #79
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They've accused other things in the past. Used games are just their latest scape goat. L when they no longer have that excuse, another will take its place.
still IF it made them money ling term they would not mind that much now would they
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Old 06-14-2013, 05:32 PM   #80
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Dude stop double posting and edit your posts jesus. I understand you're trying to get your post count up, but there are better ways.
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Old 06-14-2013, 05:46 PM   #81
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Dude stop double posting and edit your posts jesus. I understand you're trying to get your post count up, but there are better ways.
can't edit from my phone and I HATE editing anyway
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Old 06-14-2013, 07:01 PM   #82
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Totally, problem is this guy knows it, and can't seem to shut his mouth poking his opinion in everything and everyones business as if he is some guru or something which he isn't...maybe years ago, but now nobody cares about his daily opinions.
dude seriously take it up with IGN or any of these websites baiting for a "Controversial" story on Cliffyb. Does he ask to have his opinion regurgitated on IGN? no he doesn't he posts them on his own twitter account and his tumblr page. im sick of this cliffyb hating when he is not forcing you guys to read his opinions.
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Old 06-14-2013, 07:03 PM   #83
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I kind of agree with Cliffy, even for a different reason.
Games now take so much money to make, it is going to be rare to see a new franchise or studio. I really doubt there will be any new studios that make actual retail games. Cliffy may not need the money, but new developers definitely do.
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Old 06-14-2013, 07:03 PM   #84
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dude seriously take it up with IGN or any of these websites baiting for a "Controversial" story on Cliffyb. Does he ask to have his opinion regurgitated on IGN? no he doesn't he posts them on his own twitter account and his tumblr page. im sick of this cliffyb hating when he is not forcing you guys to read his opinions.
No kidding. Anyone can post whatever they want on their own Twitter or blog. There is no reason to hate him for expressing his own opinion just because IGN picked it up and ran with it.
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Old 06-14-2013, 07:18 PM   #85
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well as a current college student Mcgraw Hill will rehash the same book with small differences and call it a new edition while still charging full price, sound familiar? (See call of duty) but to your other points

The Devil's Halibut - Used Games - YouTube
Monk was talking about the consumer's right for buying the games. I don't care how different products are - consumer's get that right once they buy the product. So, yes, all these arguments about discs and cars are legit to compare to video games. It isn't the consumer's fault that game publishers can't think of awesome ways to make more money like royalties and whatever. They produce a shit ton of games now, how is that not more revenue? So, although this guy talks smart, his 'holes' in everything people argue are just BS statements twisted to sound smart. He also talks about digital media - well, yeah, digital media is NOT the same as physical. Learning the laws opens peoples eyes so they can see through stuff like this guy states - if I buy used, it's exactly like he did state though....I'm aware it's not coming with the codes like a new game would. Want more new sales on shovelware? Include something awesome - not an online pass.
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Old 06-14-2013, 07:22 PM   #86
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Why do the content creators in this industry think they're so entitled to destroying the concept of the First Sale doctrine?

If I sell a book, McGraw-Hill doesn't jump all over my shit.
If I sold a car, Ford doesn't knock on my door and cry about how they deserve a portion of the funds because it kept someone from buying a new car.
If I sell a Craftsman wrench, for fucks sake, even if it fails Sears wants the person who bought it from me to take it back to them for a free replacement and they'll do it with a ****** smile on their face.

Even the ****** MPAA and RIAA didn't threaten or get in the face of used movie and record shops because they were more concerned about mass counterfeiters proxying their sales rather than people buying stuff that they couldn't be bothered to pay for repressings of.

In other words? Horse *poop* like this proves to the rest of the world that the video game industry is still infantile. You want to talk to me about entitlement? Talk to the publishers, not me.
Aaaaahhhhh. This is music to my ears. My friend I couldn't agree more. MS should take notice of this.... You want me to buy a game but then want to keep 51% of the shares so that when I want to sell it or give it away, you can say to that person STOP, give us your kudos for this resale or this game will be blocked.

To bad really because I do like a new piece of hardware or any other gadget. But I'm not buying X1 anytime soon.
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Old 06-14-2013, 07:40 PM   #87
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uh....according to the law ownership ≠ licensing

not saying I agree (I do not in principle) but that's how it is
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Old 06-14-2013, 08:29 PM   #88
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uh....according to the law ownership ≠ licensing

not saying I agree (I do not in principle) but that's how it is
The thread was deleted for it, but here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

There's legal precedent that keeps companies from claiming licensing as the exception to the rules.
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Old 06-14-2013, 08:50 PM   #89
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The thread was deleted for it, but here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

There's legal precedent that keeps companies from claiming licensing as the exception to the rules.
Yup, though it's better in Europe where consumers have rights. Though as someone else mentioned (H20 I think), companies could reword their EULA so that you're only purchasing a timed license. That's basically a lease, in which case the price of games should reflect that fact.
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The mirror is staring right at the post which reads you are............. So hilarious that english makes them their posting.... Well done cheevo for confirming that you....... You must be drunk to not realise that or just another incoherent fool..
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heh...don't try to reason with the masses my friend, tis a waste of time
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Old 06-14-2013, 09:39 PM   #90
crimzontearz
 
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Originally Posted by Felonious Monk View Post
The thread was deleted for it, but here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

There's legal precedent that keeps companies from claiming licensing as the exception to the rules.
that does not seem to apply to digital distribution tho, NOR to the copy of the physical game that resides into your HDD which is what you are playing with as the disc itself becomes useless
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