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Old 11-07-2013, 05:21 PM   #1
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“Games Should be Defined by More Than Their Framerate & Resolution” Says Phil Spencer

Thought this would be an interesting share, as I didn't see it posted today. If there is discussion on this topic already, please feel free to report for a thread lock.

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Originally Posted by Lee Bradley

As the discussion around Xbox One’s graphical capabilities reaches fever pitch, Microsoft Studios Phil Spencer has moved to address concerns.

In recent weeks it has emerged that a number of Xbox One titles do not support 1080p and 60fps, while their PlayStation 4 equivalents do, something which had lead many consumers to believe that Sony’s console is more powerful.

Speaking to Revision 3, Microsoft Studios boss man Phil Spencer discussed the subject, explaining why Ryse runs at 900p and 30fps, while also pointing to Forza 5 as evidence that Xbox One is capable of supporting the highest resolutions and frame rates.

Ultimately, Spencer said, it should be down to the developer what approach they choose to take, based on the game they are making.

"I'll take Ryse as an example,” he said. “We looked at Ryse at different resolutions with different graphic techniques and we made the decision along with Crytek that 900p / 30 fps with the techniques that we could employ around lighting, around anti-aliasing, the animation- [for] everything that we wanted to run, that was the right answer. I think it's the best-looking launch game out there."

"If people want to get hung up on the numbers, they can do that, but really what they should be looking at is what's on screen, with the controller in their hands, and play[ing] the game. If they really care they can go play Forza at 1080p / 60fps; a beautiful game.

“But games should be defined by more than their framerate and resolution. I think this is an industry about fun and people should put the controller in their hand - or gesture - and play the games and decide what they like. I think that's the soul of what this industry's about.”
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Old 11-07-2013, 05:24 PM   #2
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If people want to get hung up on the numbers, they can do that, but really what they should be looking at is what's on screen, with the controller in their hands, and play[ing] the game. If they really care they can go play Forza at 1080p / 60fps; a beautiful game.
wtf, this is almost as bad as 'dont have an internet connection? use xbox 360'
its like 'yes ryse is low res and framerate, go and play forza' no? that dosent solve anything...

what kind of alternative is that?
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Old 11-07-2013, 05:32 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by JORDAN K 95 View Post
wtf, this is almost as bad as 'dont have an internet connection? use xbox 360'
its like 'yes ryse is low res and framerate, go and play forza' no? that dosent solve anything...

what kind of alternative is that?
That's not the point though. He's telling people that numbers don't mean anything really. People are getting all hot and bothered because of 1080p vs. 900p vs. 720p v. whatever. A good game isn't defined by it's framerate, it's defined by it's gameplay or other factors such as story, playability, characters, etc.
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Old 11-07-2013, 05:34 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by JORDAN K 95 View Post
wtf, this is almost as bad as 'dont have an internet connection? use xbox 360'
its like 'yes ryse is low res and framerate, go and play forza' no? that dosent solve anything...

what kind of alternative is that?
The point is play the games, not the resolution/frame rates. They are not what's most important in games.
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Old 11-07-2013, 05:39 PM   #5
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Is anyone really going to see the difference between native 1080 and Ryse being native 900 upscaled to 1080?
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Old 11-07-2013, 05:46 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by JORDAN K 95 View Post
wtf, this is almost as bad as 'dont have an internet connection? use xbox 360'
its like 'yes ryse is low res and framerate, go and play forza' no? that dosent solve anything...

what kind of alternative is that?
I thought the same thing when I got to that part. No point in dwelling on it, we know Microsoft just doesn't know how to say anything without putting their foot in their mouth before it's done. It's getting kind of old now. They're almost like the super racist ninety year old man that you just give a pass to because it's too late to educate them. You just deal with it, take away the points they're trying to make and move on.

While what he's saying is true and I agree with him, the reason people are discussing these things is for a couple of valid reasons. The first reason is that speculation and news is all we have right now to go on until we actually get these consoles home, there's nothing to do but discuss the information that releases. The next reason is because a lot of people are still deciding which console they want to buy day one and it's natural for people to look over the details and want to go with the console that might look better in price and on paper. Obviously, they're both going to look good, but the numbers are just a natural part of the decision making process.

The public relations shit storm seems to know no end for Microsoft. It's their own fault for putting themselves in this ongoing situation but since then they've gone on to redeem themselves in a lot of ways and they continue to get flack. That's unfortunate, but again, that's how these things work. Once you fuck up in public, it sticks with you forever. It's no different than OJ Simpson or Tiger Woods, once you get painted into a corner, you stay there for a long, long time. I don't doubt that there will be PS4 games that end up having lower resolution and framerates than certain Xbox One games, but sadly for Microsoft, the only ones we know of now are a couple of the biggest annual releases. It's a bad luck streak but the only way to end it will be to let the console speak for itself when it releases and hope that Sony (publicly) makes similar mistakes.

I think anyone on this site is being a bit of a hypocrite when they claim these things aren't important. It's not just about resolution and framerate. In your time on this forum, if you've ever at any point made the statement (which most of us have) about how the PS3 has had very inferior multiplatform releases this generation then this obviously does matter to you. That's the greater concern of this "Resolutiongate" that's going on. It's just hilarious to watch the fanboy crap because if roles were reversed and these details were in Microsoft's favor right now, I would bet my first born that everyone saying that it doesn't matter would be going on about how much better it makes the Xbox One.
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:21 PM   #7
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Good God. It's definitely not gateworthy Walter. Barely even newsworthy.
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:23 PM   #8
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Good God. It's definitely not gateworthy Walter. Barely even newsworthy.
I didn't coin that term, that's what the internets are calling it. I think it's ridiculous too. But thanks.
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:40 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by WalterWhite View Post
I think anyone on this site is being a bit of a hypocrite when they claim these things aren't important. It's not just about resolution and framerate. In your time on this forum, if you've ever at any point made the statement (which most of us have) about how the PS3 has had very inferior multiplatform releases this generation then this obviously does matter to you. That's the greater concern of this "Resolutiongate" that's going on. It's just hilarious to watch the fanboy crap because if roles were reversed and these details were in Microsoft's favor right now, I would bet my first born that everyone saying that it doesn't matter would be going on about how much better it makes the Xbox One.
None this matters because the console as stated by Phil Spencer can do 1080p and 60fps. I don't know why people keep talking about it beyond that...they made a good decision by leaving it in the hands of the developers instead of dictating to them that everything needs to be 1080p/60fps
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:43 PM   #10
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I like this statement about not getting hung up on the numbers.

It reminds me that one of the most popular games of this generation also has THE WORST possible textures ... MINECRAFT.

You don't have to have mind-blowing graphics to make a game that gamers love.

Technically, some of the most popular games on the PLANET aren't even in 480p ... Angry Birds, Words with Friends, Draw Something, etc ...

I'm not really sure why people are so hung up on graphics.
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:47 PM   #11
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None this matters because the console as stated by Phil Spencer can do 1080p and 60fps. I don't know why people keep talking about it beyond that...they made a good decision by leaving it in the hands of the developers instead of dictating to them that everything needs to be 1080p/60fps
Did you miss the part where I said that I agreed with what he said? Not everything is an attack, there's such a thing as just discussing or commenting on the topic.
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:01 PM   #12
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It's not that you can't have great games at 720p or anything. We all know that the most important thing is whether you enjoy the game or not. As was mentioned, Minecraft was hugely successful and it's not a graphical powerhouse.

But the REASON pieces like this ring of bullshit is we're not comparing, say, Killer Instinct to Ryse. We're not saying "Game A is better than Game B because it's 1080p/60fps" even though it's two completely different games and one might be better than the other regardless of graphics.

What we're SAYING is that "Game A on Platform A is better than THE SAME GAME on Platform B because it has better resolution and framerate". You can't sit there and say "it's all about the games, play what's fun". If Battlefield 4 flips your trigger and you LOVE that game, and you have the option to play on either system, then assuming all else being equal (PSN being better now and on par with XBL, voice chat working well on both systems, etc), then why WOULDN'T you play the superior version of the game? Yes, I said superior. It's the same fucking game, same controls, same levels, same multiplayer, and THE ONLY DIFFERENCE is the frames/resolution. In that instance, the more powerful system is going to have the better version.

If you can't afford a gaming PC to get "the best" version of multiplat titles, and you're a platform agnostic gamer that will play mostly multiplats anyway, then making a decision based on this information is perfectly logical. When you throw the $100 price difference into the mix, it only magnifies that.

I'm getting a free Xbox One. I'm excited as fuck. I will play KI, DR3, and now Forza since I'm getting it free too at launch. But if I decide to pick up one of the multitudes of multiplatform titles, I'll play them on my PS4 unless PS4's multiplayer sucks or something. To try to accuse gamers concerned about resolution/frames on MULTIPLAT titles of comparing apples to oranges is bullshit. We're comparing apples to apples, and no one seems to want to accept or deal with that simple fact.

Man FFS Microsoft finally has some positive PR in their favor from giving away free stuff to tons of people, then they turn around and spout nonsense like this. Really chaps my ass.
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:05 PM   #13
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Did you miss the part where I said that I agreed with what he said? Not everything is an attack, there's such a thing as just discussing or commenting on the topic.
I didn't say it was an attack lol.
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:10 PM   #14
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Man FFS Microsoft finally has some positive PR in their favor from giving away free stuff to tons of people, then they turn around and spout nonsense like this. Really chaps my ass.
Stuff like this is what annoys me... they have said nothing NOTHING bad. Yet everyone is all "OH MS PUT THEIR FOOT IN THEIR MOUTHS AGAIN!!!" Where? where did they do this? I swear people just bitch to bitch now without having legitimate reasons to do so.
I fucking with they would have never said anything about resolutions and frame rates so all of the wannabe PC elitists can go the fuck back where you came from. 99% of the people bitching never gave a crap about frame rates...you never even knew what most games were running at for the past decade....but now all of a sudden you do?
If you all cared that much about specs you'd be buying PC's. My PC can run some games well over 100fps lol, does that make the same game on Xbox 360 somehow worse? No...no it doesn't.
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:18 PM   #15
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Stuff like this is what annoys me... they have said nothing NOTHING bad. Yet everyone is all "OH MS PUT THEIR FOOT IN THEIR MOUTHS AGAIN!!!" Where? where did they do this? I swear people just bitch to bitch now without having legitimate reasons to do so.
I fucking with they would have never said anything about resolutions and frame rates so all of the wannabe PC elitists can go the fuck back where you came from. 99% of the people bitching never gave a crap about frame rates...you never even knew what most games were running at for the past decade....but now all of a sudden you do?
If you all cared that much about specs you'd be buying PC's. My PC can run some games well over 100fps lol, does that make the same game on Xbox 360 somehow worse? No...no it doesn't.
Dude that's just not true. I don't buy PCs b/c I could get both consoles this gen for the price of a good gaming PC. And I wanted to play console exclusives (and still do).

But acting like those of us comparing resolutions on multiplatform titles are just looking for a reason to bitch is very condescending (not saying you, but MS and others for sure).

I chose to stick with 360 for this gen for multiplats and only recently picked up a PS3 for its exclusives because, for the most part, multiplats on 360 were better. Had they not been, I would've had my 360 for exclusives and a PS3 for multiplats, much like I will be doing with the XB1 and PS4.

If I'm wrong then I'll eat crow, but I fully expect that the majority of big-budget retail multiplatform games will run better/smoother/sharper on PS4. It's a very rational decision to make, and I get pissed when MS people go and have interviews trying to say I'm comparing CoD at 720p to Ryse at 900p. I'm not. I'm comparing CoD at 720p to CoD at 720p. (CoD is just an example. I'm sick to fucking death of that franchise and probably won't play it on either system, unless I gamefly it for achievements at some point like a lot of games on my tag that sucked).
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:22 PM   #16
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If I'm wrong then I'll eat crow, but I fully expect that the majority of big-budget retail multiplatform games will run better/smoother/sharper on PS4.
But the X1 version of BF4 looks no worse than the PS4 version. They run the same, both at 60fps and both look quite close graphically. Neither of which is running at 1080.
I don't share your opinion about multiplatform games running better on either console since it's already been shown that even with the easier to use architecture the ps4 has that it made no difference at all gameplay/performance wise.
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:28 PM   #17
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But the X1 version of BF4 looks no worse than the PS4 version. They run the same, both at 60fps and both look quite close graphically. Neither of which is running at 1080.
I don't share your opinion about multiplatform games running better on either console since it's already been shown that even with the easier to use architecture the ps4 has that it made no difference at all gameplay/performance wise.
They've said that some of the resolution and framerate issues on XB1 at launch have to do with devs learning how to optimize for the system and use the dev tools efficiently. While the learning curve on PS4 probably isn't as high due to the more straight-forward architecture, there will be a learning curve on both consoles throughout the generation.

As long as we don't see gamebreaking stuff happening on XB1 like what happened with Skyrim on PS3 then I'm sure it will be fine, and I'm rational enough to realize that for the vast majority of console gamers 1080p upscaled versus 1080p native isn't going to be a thing. But for me I like to get the biggest bang for my buck, and I can certainly tell a difference on my TV when something is running 720p native versus 720p upscaled (which is definitely a thing this generation, and something I have in fact paid attention to). So if I have to choose 1080p upscaled or 1080p native next gen for a multiplat game, I'll in most instances be going with the 1080p native one.

TBH framerate is a bigger issue than resolution, especially in shooters, and while BF4 may look pretty much the same to most people on XB1/PS4, it has been plainly and factually show to have a lower overall average framerate and more framerate dips/slower recovery to 60 than the PS4 version.

But all this is getting away from the issue at hand. He's not even saying what you're saying. You're saying stuff that is fine from a rational standpoint. He's trying to act like we're not even comparing the same game, and that's just ridiculous. Paraphrase: "If you don't like rise at 900p then go play Forza at 1080p." That's an absurd statement no matter how you spin it. People comparing resolutions are comparing them across the same multiplat titles, not entirely different games in entirely different genres. Jesus.
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:42 PM   #18
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But acting like those of us comparing resolutions on multiplatform titles are just looking for a reason to bitch is very condescending (not saying you, but MS and others for sure).
IMO that's exactly what people are doing. The difference between the multi platform games isn't really that great and can be (again, imo) at least partly put down to the fact that MS has had to make significant changes to the OS in recent months. While Sony has a day one patch as well I don't think their initial changes will be as significant as MS's.

It can't be easy to optimise a game when the goal posts keep moving. People should wait till the devs have had time to work with a stable platform for a while before judging the consoles comparative worth.

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But all this is getting away from the issue at hand. He's not even saying what you're saying. You're saying stuff that is fine from a rational standpoint. He's trying to act like we're not even comparing the same game, and that's just ridiculous. Paraphrase: "If you don't like rise at 900p then go play Forza at 1080p." That's an absurd statement no matter how you spin it. People comparing resolutions are comparing them across the same multiplat titles, not entirely different games in entirely different genres. Jesus.
It seems to me that people are pretending that a multi-plat game running "better" on the PS4 at launch is proof that the X1 is incapable of ever matching up graphically. That's F*ing stupid.

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Old 11-07-2013, 09:01 PM   #19
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IMO that's exactly what people are doing. The difference between the multi platform games isn't really that great and can be (again, imo) at least partly put down to the fact that MS has had to make significant changes to the OS in recent months. While Sony has a day one patch as well I don't think their initial changes will be as significant as MS's.

It can't be easy to optimise a game when the goal posts keep moving. People should wait till the devs have had time to work with a stable platform for a while before judging the consoles comparative worth.



It seems to me that people are pretending that a multi-plat game running "better" on the PS4 at launch is proof that the X1 is incapable of ever matching up graphically. That's F*ing stupid.
You will see very similar games yes. Years 2-4 of these consoles' lifespans are probably going to have multiplats nearly on par for the most part. But I do believe that if some 3rd party dev designs a game that pushes the envelope, that needs a high-end gaming PC to run at its "max", then that same game is going to be toned down for a PS4 port, and toned down further for an XB1 port. There is no denying that the systems have a power deficit from PS4 to XB1 on the GPU and a bandwidth bottleneck on the memory on the XB1. Those are facts. Previous gens are almost incomparable because the system architectures have never been this similar before.

1st party XB1 games will look crazy good by year 5 I'm sure, just as 1st party PS4 games will. But towards the end of these consoles' life cycle, the most cutting-edge 3rd party titles will not have "parity" on the two systems unless the devs decide that the console port needs to be the same on both. If they use the PS4 to its fullest potential, then yes I fully expect late-gen games to be more graphically adept on the PS4.

The gameplay will be the same, and that's great. I don't think anything will be game-breaking performance wise, but I'll play the PS4 game because I have the luxury of choosing. For those that don't that are only buying an XB1, I'm sure they'll be just fine with the XB1 version and won't know or at least won't care if settings are turned down a bit.

Edit: If I'm wrong and Battlefield 10 (for argument's sake, I'm sure we can find a 3rd party title to compare late-gen) looks identical on both systems (as in no upscaling, same framerate, same native rez, not the same to the 'average' gamer), I'll come back here and apologize and send Gackt a free game. Hold me to this statement Gackt. Signature it if you want.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:05 PM   #20
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But the X1 version of BF4 looks no worse than the PS4 version. They run the same, both at 60fps and both look quite close graphically. Neither of which is running at 1080.
I don't share your opinion about multiplatform games running better on either console since it's already been shown that even with the easier to use architecture the ps4 has that it made no difference at all gameplay/performance wise.
All negativity surrounding the X1 comes from PS4 supporters making shit up. Even the PS4 technically dominates the X1 graphically, you can NOT tell a difference. I'm 14 so my eyes might be better than someone who's 31 but I seriously found not see a difference at all.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:06 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by lifeexpectancy View Post
Edit: If I'm wrong and Battlefield 10 (for argument's sake, I'm sure we can find a 3rd party title to compare late-gen) looks identical on both systems (as in no upscaling, same framerate, same native rez, not the same to the 'average' gamer), I'll come back here and apologize and send Gackt a free game. Hold me to this statement Gackt. Signature if if you want.
going in my signature now
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:13 PM   #22
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going in my signature now
Damn. You're getting all the free stuff at the moment. You should go by a lottery ticket because you've clearly stolen all the luck.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:19 PM   #23
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Damn. You're getting all the free stuff at the moment. You should go by a lottery ticket because you've clearly stolen all the luck.
lol, Im going to buy one tonight just because you said that.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:30 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by lifeexpectancy View Post
and send Gackt a free game. Hold me to this statement Gackt. Signature if if you want.
Send him this:

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Old 11-07-2013, 09:33 PM   #25
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This whole resolution thing is absolutely ridiculous. You can hardly tell the difference between native 1080p and upscaled 1080p. All the PS4 crazies argue about how the Xbox One can't handle 1080p, so it runs at a lower resolution. And yet, the PS4 has problems maintaining a decent framerate at 1080p in CoD: Ghosts. Both consoles have their downfalls, but you only hear about the Xbox One "problems" because the PS4 crazies yell louder.

As for things MS says... Christ, people are finicky. They take every single word MS says and put them under a microscope. If even a single word could be spun to make MS look like the devil, that is what happens.

Quote:
If people want to get hung up on the numbers, they can do that, but really what they should be looking at is what's on screen, with the controller in their hands, and play[ing] the game. If they really care they can go play Forza at 1080p / 60fps; a beautiful game.
This isn't another "#dealwithit" scenario (an interesting article about Adam Orth was published yesterday). He was merely saying that if you REALLY care about playing a game that runs at 1080p native on the Xbox One, you can play Forza 5 because that is what it runs at. If that isn't the most important thing for you in a game, there are a multitude of games on the Xbox One you can play. There is no conspiracy here. There is nothing wrong with what he said. People just WANT there to be so they can continue taking a shit on MS for no reason.

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Originally Posted by Gackt View Post
going in my signature now
I'm still waiting for B A R 4 D to send me my game for getting the MS Store guide published.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:58 PM   #26
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I'm still waiting for B A R 4 D to send me my game for getting the MS Store guide published.
Motherfucker..I was hoping this subject wouldn't come up lol.

Give me time the console hasn't arrived yet. XD
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Old 11-07-2013, 10:07 PM   #27
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This is equivalent to ugly people saying "It's what's on the inside that matters"
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Old 11-07-2013, 10:08 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xhunterrrr View Post
This whole resolution thing is absolutely ridiculous. You can hardly tell the difference between native 1080p and upscaled 1080p. All the PS4 crazies argue about how the Xbox One can't handle 1080p, so it runs at a lower resolution. And yet, the PS4 has problems maintaining a decent framerate at 1080p in CoD: Ghosts. Both consoles have their downfalls, but you only hear about the Xbox One "problems" because the PS4 crazies yell louder.

As for things MS says... Christ, people are finicky. They take every single word MS says and put them under a microscope. If even a single word could be spun to make MS look like the devil, that is what happens.

This isn't another "#dealwithit" scenario (an interesting article about Adam Orth was published yesterday). He was merely saying that if you REALLY care about playing a game that runs at 1080p native on the Xbox One, you can play Forza 5 because that is what it runs at. If that isn't the most important thing for you in a game, there are a multitude of games on the Xbox One you can play. There is no conspiracy here. There is nothing wrong with what he said. People just WANT there to be so they can continue taking a shit on MS for no reason.
The hypocrisy in this statement is profound. Since the Xbox One was announced have you ever once missed a chance to read aloud from your Microsoft press releases? You sound like an Xbox FAQ spam bot. Anything they say is gold to you. Microsoft: The console emits flames! Hunter: Sounds hot, it's awesome!

You're going on about how this subject has no merit and then you point out that the framerate for Call of Duty has hiccups on the PS4 (which is true for the record) when the Xbox One version is still under an embargo and nobody has a clue if it will have similar issues or it's own unique set of problems. Hilarious! Always be sure to only tell half of the story right? And calling people "PS4 crazies" because they're considering information that releases? What? We're supposed to ask questions and seek information, that's what non-fanboys do. You are the embodiment of a fanboy dude and I'm pretty sure you don't even realize it.
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Old 11-07-2013, 10:10 PM   #29
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going in my signature now
. What just happened?!
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Old 11-07-2013, 10:10 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterWhite View Post
The hypocrisy in this statement is profound. Since the Xbox One was announced have you ever once missed a chance to read aloud from your Microsoft press releases? You sound like an Xbox FAQ spam bot. Anything they say is gold to you. Microsoft: The console emits flames! Hunter: Sounds hot, it's awesome!

You're going on about how this subject has no merit and then you point out that the framerate for Call of Duty has hiccups on the PS4 (which is true for the record) when the Xbox One version is still under an embargo and nobody has a clue if it will have similar issues or it's own unique set of problems. Hilarious! Always be sure to only tell half of the story right? And calling people "PS4 crazies" because they're considering information that releases? What? We're supposed to ask questions and seek information, that's what non-fanboys do. You are the embodiment of a fanboy dude and I'm pretty sure you don't even realize it.
You better hurry back over to PS3T so you can post more shit about how big of a fanboy I am!

I'm done with you and your insistence on attacking everything I say.
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