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Old 12-23-2011, 12:15 AM   #1
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What am i doing wrong?!

Ok, so i cannot seem to win even against the newest of players, i'm 5-16, and every time i get into a match, i'm lucky to take down 1 character with level 3 x-factor on.
For reference, the team i'm using is Dante/Virgil/Zero

Is it just that i have no skill? or am i just unlucky to get paired up with people more skilled with me?
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Old 12-23-2011, 01:33 AM   #2
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Okay is the team you listed the order you use?? I.e. Is Dante point with vergil as middle and zero on anchor? What assists do you use and what's your preferred playstyle (rush/zone/vortex)?


Also not trying to be a jerk but I read an article a while back that interviewed several sf,mvc,mk tournament quality players and I believe j. Wong made a statement about the experience level of fighting game players
This was the basics:

Unconscious dumbplay; the person can't make an honest appraisal of their own abilities and generally thinks they're much better
Conscious dumbplay; the player begins to see the mistakes they are making
Conscious smartplay; the person is now beginning to get comfortable with their technique to become an effective player through focus practice and preparation.
Unconscious smartplay; the person knows what will work in most situations and doesn't have to realize the mistakes to capitalize, the muscle memory is there and there is very little though required to continue the combos at this stage of play it's more about reading an opponent and forcing then into a mistake.

Reason I brought this up is not to insult but reading that made me personally step back from vanilla and look at what I was doing. I was a 25% winner my first 2weeks on vanilla (first 100 matches my record was 25-75) and I backed away from ranked matches and began to practice with some fighter fans I know. I got dominated then all of the sudden I began to see myself dropping combos I should be able to continue; I was making bone headed decisions to do extremely unsafe moves giving opponents free punishment combinations that would eat characters alive. So I learned and began to try to do different chains and strings used my assist more began to incorporate throws and command grabs.

That point I hopped back online and booked 68% winner through my next 150 matches or so which got me to a nearly 50% win ratio and I thought I was good then got spanked at a local tournament and basically started the whole process over.


Now that all that useless junks there what do you see as shortcomings in your games? Are you making small mistakes that your opponent capitalizes on? Are you just being outplayed or are you having close matches?

Because if you are just being outplayed then your opponents know their team and what they are doing. And it can mean that your giving them freebies. This game (and all fighters in general) have fairly steep learning curves to get around.

As far as help goes which character do you feel strongest with ability wise? And the weakest? One thing I notice off your team is there's very little ranged capabilities therefore a good zoned could give you fits. All of your characters have good ways to safely close distance zeros air lightning Dante has bold moves and Vergil has trick moves. Another thing that may help is do you know their combos from mission mode while they're not the best "bnb" combos they give good ideas where to start combos and where to continue.

I know this isn't a lot of help but I'll do my best to supply any info I have if you can give circumstances or what your problems are .
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Old 12-23-2011, 02:07 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thahitman42 View Post
Ok, so i cannot seem to win even against the newest of players, i'm 5-16, and every time i get into a match, i'm lucky to take down 1 character with level 3 x-factor on.
For reference, the team i'm using is Dante/Virgil/Zero

Is it just that i have no skill? or am i just unlucky to get paired up with people more skilled with me?
Just so you know, even though someone may not have any wins online or have newbie ranks don't mean they are new players, You can reset you xbox live stats at anytime. That beginner you fought could have been an 8th lord or something higher originally. I fought a beginner who later confesses to resetting his rank so he could pray on noobs more.
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Old 12-23-2011, 03:23 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by thahitman42 View Post
Ok, so i cannot seem to win even against the newest of players, i'm 5-16, and every time i get into a match, i'm lucky to take down 1 character with level 3 x-factor on.
For reference, the team i'm using is Dante/Virgil/Zero

Is it just that i have no skill? or am i just unlucky to get paired up with people more skilled with me?

You are also playing Imo 2 of the more complex/ execution heavy characters im the game Zero and Dante. both of these characters can be extremely good but they may just take a little bit more time and practice.
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:59 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by n33njah View Post
Okay is the team you listed the order you use?? I.e. Is Dante point with vergil as middle and zero on anchor? What assists do you use and what's your preferred playstyle (rush/zone/vortex)?

Now that all that useless junks there what do you see as shortcomings in your games? Are you making small mistakes that your opponent capitalizes on? Are you just being outplayed or are you having close matches?

Because if you are just being outplayed then your opponents know their team and what they are doing. And it can mean that your giving them freebies. This game (and all fighters in general) have fairly steep learning curves to get around.

As far as help goes which character do you feel strongest with ability wise? And the weakest? One thing I notice off your team is there's very little ranged capabilities therefore a good zoned could give you fits. All of your characters have good ways to safely close distance zeros air lightning Dante has bold moves and Vergil has trick moves. Another thing that may help is do you know their combos from mission mode while they're not the best "bnb" combos they give good ideas where to start combos and where to continue.

I know this isn't a lot of help but I'll do my best to supply any info I have if you can give circumstances or what your problems are .
Well. the line up is Dante (Jam Session) then Virgil (Rapid Slash) ending with Zero (Ryuenjin). I feel stronger with Zero, which is why i thought it would be smart to have him on anchor so i don't lose him.

As for what you were saying about being outplayed. I definately feel outplayed, and get combo'd heavily early on before getting much offense with Dante and Virgil, and i only get offense when they make mistakes on guard against level 3 X factored zero. Dante also is only a temp. lead until i find a character that matches my play style with Zero and Virgil...

Then again, it could just be me not adjusting from the Arcade to Online learning curve, and not what works on arcade works against real opponents... i guess this is what i get for not playing most normal fighters like street fighter and mortal kombat..

Thanks for the help, if you have any more suggestions, i'm open to help.
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Old 12-23-2011, 10:34 PM   #6
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hm personally I don't think I would anchor out with zero but I can see the benefit from it if he's your strongest character.

My logic for not anchoring with him is that he's such a valuable asset off the point with his insane strings. ( tbh zero is by far one of my most hated match up's against my team of hulk wolvie and akuma.) i've seen several guy's take me down using just their zero on point with two good assists. Ill also agree with what tactical said you have picked a very technical and very timing specific team in vergil and dante.

some tip's with dante's movelist that I've used on the occasion's i've played him; alot of his move's are extremly unsafe if you use them without hit confirming the combo. I.E. don't randomly throw out his revolver or his other time consuming attacks because you will give up frame advantage to your opponent.

Vergil honestly I have very little clue as I cant see how to play him in any way. Generally I end up flailing with him even though I've done his mission mode so I cant offer much in the way of help there.


Though if you plan on modifiying your team perhaps find a heavy [ Hulk, thor, tron, wesker, or a higher hp character to give you a little more flexibility. I personally use hulk because he has some really easy combo's to use and i've learned some fun tricks with him but he's not an integral part of my team I view it as any damage and meter he builds or does is a bonus for when I get to the heart of my team. but yeah your team has hp concerns. [ 900k,850k,830k] on your team respectively but the best thing I can tell you is to try to learn some bread and butter combo's to maximize damage output and if you aren't comfortable with dante and vergil then swap around. Team building in this game is probably the second biggest priority that most people have in this game. Finding a team they know and can use very well making sure they complement one another and then making sure that the execution on the character's combo's are there.
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Old 12-24-2011, 01:34 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thahitman42 View Post
Ok, so i cannot seem to win even against the newest of players, i'm 5-16, and every time i get into a match, i'm lucky to take down 1 character with level 3 x-factor on.
For reference, the team i'm using is Dante/Virgil/Zero

Is it just that i have no skill? or am i just unlucky to get paired up with people more skilled with me?
TBH i'll just give you the same advice i give most players, crossing your opponent over is the best way to win, unless your opponent is expecting it, they are gonna get hit if they are not quick enough.

As you use Dante for your point character and you use Zero's projectile assist you could potentially do this:

Call in Zero (Assist) > As the projectile is about to hit your opponent Teleport behind them (Down > Down + S) > Attack with the launcher (S), and if they are to slow to switch blocking directions they'll get hit by dante, then you can proceed into BnB:

Cold shower > prop shredder > M > M > H > Hammer > And so on.

The reason why it Works is because the expect to block the projectile so as they hold the block button in one direction, they could potentially block it, but since Dante teleports behind them (overhead) the direction in which you have to block also reverses and if you time it precisely you'll most likely always hit them unless they Jump, Use a super or have mad skills and see it coming.(although i won't lie it's obvious when you do this as Dante teabags the floor)

On top of this, correct me if i'm wrong but on top of this crossover, Dante's launcher is overhead ( as is everyone's) but it also has mix-up potential as if you cancel it into cold shower it's a low attack so as they stand up (to block the overhead launcher) they have to crouch and block to stop the cold shower from hitting.

So you have both a crossover and a mix-up to use.

With vergil you could just potentially put up his swords (the level 1 super) and teleport behind them, if they do not block fast then they will get hit by the spinning swords and you'll have a combo.

Also The tips for dante also works for Vergil as Vergil can teleport behind the opponent. As for combo's it's up for you to chose the ones you can successfully do because dropping a combo is bad, Very Bad.

I'll also add an extra thing i've noticed after reading N33njah's post, it is true high Hp characters are beefy etc, N33njah says it gives flexibility, but then again every character gives you flexibility, it just depends if you know how to use the character, we can easily give you characters to use or combo's to try, but if you cannot execute it you'll still do badly. If you are really eager to become good, i suggest looking up BnB videos for your main characters and learn them.
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Old 12-24-2011, 07:19 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by thahitman42 View Post
Ok, so i cannot seem to win even against the newest of players, i'm 5-16, and every time i get into a match, i'm lucky to take down 1 character with level 3 x-factor on.
For reference, the team i'm using is Dante/Virgil/Zero

Is it just that i have no skill? or am i just unlucky to get paired up with people more skilled with me?
I dont know if this will help but here is a video of zeros crossover http://shoryuken.com/2011/12/21/umvc...ro-technology/

I am trying to learn it but its a bitch lol
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Old 12-27-2011, 01:06 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Jakez123 View Post
On top of this, correct me if i'm wrong but on top of this crossover, Dante's launcher is overhead ( as is everyone's) but it also has mix-up potential as if you cancel it into cold shower it's a low attack so as they stand up (to block the overhead launcher) they have to crouch and block to stop the cold shower from hitting.
Just wanted to clarify, cold shower (down-forward, rapid H) doesn't have to be blocked crouching as it isn't considered a low attack- you can test this in training mode by setting the opponent to All Guard (High, Mid only). You can't cancel j.S into cold shower either, as it isn't special cancelable (I imagine you meant to just use it after the move recovers, though).
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Old 12-28-2011, 12:03 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Didi Mau View Post
Just wanted to clarify, cold shower (down-forward, rapid H) doesn't have to be blocked crouching as it isn't considered a low attack- you can test this in training mode by setting the opponent to All Guard (High, Mid only). You can't cancel j.S into cold shower either, as it isn't special cancelable (I imagine you meant to just use it after the move recovers, though).
Ah thanks for clearing that up, i had a feeling i was wrong about the cold shower, i just couldn't be bothered to start up UMVC3 and check it
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Old 12-28-2011, 05:06 AM   #11
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I'll agree with that statement that any character can give you flexibility but in this case I was thinking that all three of his characters can be dead off of one good combo (granted it may mean x factoring as a level 1 but the popular characters all have high damage combos And his teams hp means that one good combo fries that char. I know it's true even in the heavies case but hulk ( my favorite heavy) has an easy 750-800k damage combos he has super armor on most of his attacks meaning you can Use them as a punish to moves people think connect and are safe. But I will agree crossing an opponent and knowing you own character are two big time assets to have. Just a difference in our view and playstyles.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:37 AM   #12
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Any dirtbag that uses the reset trick to pick on noobs are shameful.
I'm trying to get my 5 win streak achievement and these @holes are trying to ruin it.
I got my turn off during match trick to deny them their cheap wins.
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:16 AM   #13
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Well, part of the weakness in a team of Dante/Vergil/Zero is that all three characters do relatively mediocre or low damage and rely on long combos, which you may or may not know how to do effectively. They all also have low health, which means the mistakes you make in a match will give you that much less a chance to be able to correct them. Another thing is you don't have a character on the team with a good and reliable assist which will make it harder to score hits, land combos, and keep people away. Overall you have a team that doesn't have the best synergy. Even if Zero is your best character, you should look into what an anchor has to do. If Zero is the last character all alone, do you feel comfortable having to get in on people with him? Zero himself is a great character but taking on teams when he doesn't have an assist is tough compared to what other characters can get done. I would suggest putting Zero or Vergil first and then finding a good assist character to work with both, such as Sentinel, Doctor Doom, or Akuma. All three of those guys (much less so Doom) are decent anchors as well.

I could give more advice if you answer this question. Do you know at least one reliable, damaging combo to do with every character on your team if you score a hit? To be quite honest, it could be possible you aren't ready for online yet and should use a site like Shoryuken to learn some basic combos for your team and then practice them in training mode. Unless you want to try fighting out of slumps as you learn, it's usually a better idea to be ready for at least the aspect of maximizing your damage output when you score hits online. You should also know which moves are safe on blocking opponents. Someone like Zero for example has lots of very safe attacks he can throw out while Vergil on the other hand, can be punished on many of his moves if they are blocked so you have to rely on a more patient and aware approach with him. This kind of stuff makes all the difference playing online because any above average player is going to know when you've left yourself open to be hit.

Practice makes people better at fighting games. I guarantee you there is no person in the world that is good at a fighter that doesn't spend time in training mode. Playing in arcade against AI is okay at first but that will create bad habits that players won't fall for.
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:22 PM   #14
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D.A.N. is giving some good advice there. Learn a high-damaging combo for each of your characters (500,000-700,000 is fair enough if you are just starting off) and make sure you are able to do every single one flawlessly (9/10 times) before you go off online. To be fair, as it has been mentioned before, Zero and Dante are both pretty technical characters (ESPECIALLY Dante after his changes from Vanilla) and require some fickle timing when it comes to the BnBs so don't expect progress to come THAT quick. Get used to holding down a button then switching to holding down another as well for Zero's buster (which you might as well learn since Vergil's main safest tool, the Round Trip, is done the same way).

Also, your team is lacking some vitality with Zero and Vergil being a couple of the lowest in the game besides a few exceptions (Stryder, Phoenix, Akuma come to mind) while Dante isn't much further ahead on life either. As a beginner, it may be hard to find wins at first just because they die so easily. But keep spending time in training mode, keep fighting more and more players and you'll learn to get around their low HP with better defense.

Zero and Vergil seem to be both best on point at this point in the game's lifespan so I recommend moving either to that spot and putting Dante second, just so either can have a pretty good mixup with teleport-behind+Jam Session/Weasel Shot (Crystal is viable but harder to set up due to it's slow startup compared to the other two). Vergil can do the same (if you are using his Judgement Cut assist) for Zero and Dante as well.

The TLR version
Learn a decent combo with each of your characters that you are comfortable with (500,000+ should suffice for now, 700,000 is ideal), learn a mixup or two with your characters and the assists they would have during a match, keep at it in training mode and eventually those wins will start popping up more frequently.

Marvel is a game where you and your opponent literally try to out-gimmick one another with different setups since two clean hits into a full combo usually means losing a character. So good luck and also know it's impossible to play this game without getting salty at one point or another.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:33 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by thahitman42 View Post
Ok, so i cannot seem to win even against the newest of players, i'm 5-16, and every time i get into a match, i'm lucky to take down 1 character with level 3 x-factor on.
For reference, the team i'm using is Dante/Virgil/Zero

Is it just that i have no skill? or am i just unlucky to get paired up with people more skilled with me?
Starting with Dante/Vergil. How typical LOL.
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