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Black Monolith Possible Solution - Need Input


Fenrakk101
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"fractal would be too fitting. both endings focus on zooming in (or out) of a cube and ending with the same cube... like a fractal"

 

I know right? I thought I nailed it when I found that one. But then I realized...I have no idea how to actually try these words out. I'll just keep trying to give you guys good words that may help us connect an in-game clue to the answer, after it (looks like inevitably) gets solved tomorrow.

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Yeah I saw that a while back zingrook, and not that it's not a good idea or completely invalid, but I'm of the belief (that someone else had mentioned too) that the numbers corresponding to the 8 tetronimos in the boiler room were merely a self contained puzzle, and nothing more.

 

For instance, if we're going on the 7 letter word premise, what button do we press to correspond to the letter O? I'm not quite sure I fully follow it.

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If there's one thing this whole experience has taught me, it's that playing the Metatron (or even just Gabriel) is an exhausting experience, and an illuminating view into the human condition.

 

Did nobody else just notice that G is a rotation of A, in a 7 letter word...?

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Anyway that we can get a new spreadsheet? Or I might just go through and do it by eye...

 

I mean we now know that:

 

First 2 buttons are the same

Third isn't A

Seventh is (most likely) not A

There's either no LT/RT at all, 1 LT/RT each, 2 LT/RTs or 3 LT/RTs

Multiple sets of doubles

 

That's a whole lot of possibles we can cut out.

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Anyway that we can get a new spreadsheet? Or I might just go through and do it by eye...

 

I mean we now know that:

 

First 2 buttons are the same

Third isn't A

Seventh is (most likely) not A

There's either no LT/RT at all, 1 LT/RT each, 2 LT/RTs or 3 LT/RTs

Multiple sets of doubles

 

That's a whole lot of possibles we can cut out.

 

I've only just arrived to the party... can you please briefly explain how we know that? Where's that info coming from?

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I've only just arrived to the party... can you please briefly explain how we know that? Where's that info coming from?

 

Most of that comes from Treyher, although no A as final button is speculation based on the video a guy posted of him finishing the puzzles since logically he would still be in mid air if the puzzle was completed after a Jump. But yeah, someone on gamefaqs said that would leave like 400+ possibilities (although that was ignoring the possibility of single LT/RT presses, as he had them in doubles always). That should be far easier than the current 10,000 that people have going.

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Unless I missed something, we don't "know" this at all. In fact, it directly flies in the face of other clues treyher has given us.

 

That stems from their being a net rotation of 0 so there has to be an equal number of LT/RT presses. Yes it's more than likely >2 but we can't ignore the fact there could only be one of each and that the duplicates are Up, Down and A

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Where are you getting a "net rotation of 0" from?

 

Treyher said on Twitter: "net effect of one turn"

 

That is the exact quote. To me, that means after entering the code the screen will be just one 90 degree turn from where you started.

 

Even if you're interpreting the word "turn" as a full 360 degree rotation, I would assume he means you actually make the full rotation and not just that you end up with the same perspective as when you started.

 

Without him clarifying which he means, I don't think we can take this assertion into account.

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Where are you getting a "net rotation of 0" from?

 

Treyher said on Twitter: "net effect of one turn"

 

That is the exact quote. To me, that means after entering the code the screen will be just one 90 degree turn from where you started.

 

Even if you're interpreting the word "turn" as a full 360 degree rotation, I would assume he means you actually make the full rotation and not just that you end up with the same perspective as when you started.

 

Without him clarifying which he means, I don't think we can take this assertion into account.

 

I'm going to chalk it up to me being tired, and not reading properly as well as other peoples ideas also stemming from the even number of RT/LT presses. But yeah, my bad.

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Many people are directing search efforts under the influence of someone claiming to be treyher. It might be the real treyher, it might not be. Even if treyher is who he claims to be, it's not an official source, and we don't know that his hints are actually meant to be useful or malicious. Not to infer that the actual treyher is a bad person, but it wouldn't be the first time someone on the internet has ever lead people in the wrong direction intentionally.

 

At this point, the general strategy seems to be "Hope that treyher is actually helping". This strategy doesn't seem as solid as a more comprehensive coordinated brute force strategy where we rule out all possible combinations.

 

I would encourage anyone brute forcing using treyher's hints to at least consider the possibility that the hints ultimately don't yield any result. It seems wise that if this ends up being the case, we at least make sure that we can cross off all tried combinations from a more comprehensive list.

 

The way I see it:

 

Facts:

  • The last red cube is unlocked while in the Monolith room (source: the video posted yesterday). This doesn't rule out the possibility that some prior condition must be met first.

 

Assumptions from in-game clues:

  • You must stand on the "1" symbol in the BM room while inputting a code. (source: it is assumed that the burned map implies that half of the instructions are missing.)
  • There are 5 valid inputs: LT, RT, A, Up, Down (source: this assumes that the previous assumption is valid, and you must be standing in the square. From the video posted yesterday, we see that the player is still standing on this square... at least from one dimension. That isn't necessarily proof that you have to be standing there.
  • The code may be 8 inputs long (source: every code input in the game is 8 inputs long. The code on one half of the map is 8 inputs long.)

Edited by TheLeggett
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I think we've all certainly at least considered that treyher may be lying, or at least not telling the whole truth. But honestly, what else do we have to go on at this point?

 

I know a lot of people seem to want to follow the treyher lead to its conclusion. It seems overly optimistic and hopeful to me personally, but I don't know that I can sway opinion there.

 

My recommendation would be to coordinate a brute force effort that goes through every possible 8-input combination (including repeats) as soon as possible (using a De Bruijn sequence to expedite the process). I estimate we can input nearly 1,000 codes individually per hour (following a De Bruijn sequence). With 100 people, this would be a 4 hour effort, much less time then I know many people have already invested into this problem.

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I certainly don't see anything wrong with treyhers instructions, but I am always considering the possibility that he isn't leading us in the right direction. I think that we can't go wrong with a brute force hack, even if we disregard every little thing treyher has told us. The time it takes to solve this, at this point, is irrelevant to me. Nevertheless, treyher does seem like the real deal, partly because of his comments about how this is an enlightening experience about the human condition. In my experience, the only things video games have taught me is decryption and millisecond reaction times. It takes someone different, someone close to the maker, to derive something so philisophical from a puzzle game. I mean no offense to anyone with my comments about treyher, I am simply saying what I am to say that I believe he is the real deal.

Edited by steve19137
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I know a lot of people seem to want to follow the treyher lead to its conclusion. It seems overly optimistic and hopeful to me personally, but I don't know that I can sway opinion there.

 

My recommendation would be to coordinate a brute force effort that goes through every possible 8-input combination (including repeats) as soon as possible (using a De Bruijn sequence to expedite the process). I estimate we can input nearly 1,000 codes individually per hour (following a De Bruijn sequence). With 100 people, this would be a 4 hour effort, much less time then I know many people have already invested into this problem.

finally, someone with sense. :D

i've been saying all along that i think treyher/fish are giving us red herrings. whether or not that is true, misunderstandings and hearsay have had people searching for 7 button inputs for DAYS which just doesn't make any sense. i've got time to spare right now, so i'm in.

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finally, someone with sense. :D

i've been saying all along that i think treyher/fish are giving us red herrings. whether or not that is true, misunderstandings and hearsay have had people searching for 7 button inputs for DAYS which just doesn't make any sense. i've got time to spare right now, so i'm in.

 

It's really only been about 1 day, or 48 hours at most...

 

While you may be correct to mistrust Treyher, I can see no reason why he would lie or mislead us. While we might be too naive to blindly follow treyher's clues, what makes you so sure you're just not being too mistrustful? Not that I can't blame you, this is the internet after all.

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It's really only been about 1 day, or 48 hours at most...

 

While you may be correct to mistrust Treyher, I can see no reason why he would lie or mislead us. While we might be too naive to blindly follow treyher's clues, what makes you so sure you're just not being too mistrustful? Not that I can't blame you, this is the internet after all.

because if i was fish and i was talking through a community member, i'd give out red herrings too. the sooner this puzzle is finished, the sooner the hype dies down, and thus the sales. it is a great game in it's own right, but this type of publicity is priceless. i don't mistrust treyher as such, i just understand he is a conduit for fish or at least one of the other people in the know who have little to gain from this solution coming out, and sales to lose when it does.

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because if i was fish and i was talking through a community member, i'd give out red herrings too. the sooner this puzzle is finished, the sooner the hype dies down, and thus the sales. it is a great game in it's own right, but this type of publicity is priceless. i don't mistrust treyher as such, i just understand he is a conduit for fish or at least one of the other people in the know who have little to gain from this solution coming out, and sales to lose when it does.

 

It's pretty much a safe bet that the treyher on gamefaqs is also the same treyher on his twitter, it's not like either account was made up as soon as the monolith was discovered, or even anytime in the past few weeks.

 

There isn't really much publicity, the people who care are a small set of gamers who, through about 3 forums, have been discussing the monolith. It's not like he's made the cover or rolling stone. Especially now after finding out that getting the red cube does nothing, people will care less.

 

You guys are giving Phil Fish way too much credit here. Treyher has pretty much gone on score to say that he's not associated with Treyher, but rather another Dev, and wants to like Fish, but is having a hard time doing so with all the other negative publicity he's been (unintentionally) giving himself.

 

Lemme put it bluntly...

 

Is it worth it to you guys to bluntly force 7^8 (5,764,801 combinations) for one red cube, or at least try the 5^7 combinations with constraints, which is approximately 12,500...

 

Knock yourselves out.

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Following through with the "human condition" talk, I am beginning to think that there is no solution. The fact that the only evidence has come from someone so close to the production could allow for this to be a hoax. Look at the volume of discussion, and how it manifests in people. Alternately applying pure logic (myriad solution attempts) and pure faith (there *must* be an answer), the community response as a whole rather resembles the response to the concept of god.

 

We all know that leaderboards will be topped by a handful of glitchers, but to have a single person at the top, vouchsafed by the creator, is seemingly designed to manipulate the current state of games and gamers and to foment passionate discussion.

 

What is more human than the drive to conquer the unknowable and obscure?

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It's pretty much a safe bet that the treyher on gamefaqs is also the same treyher on his twitter, it's not like either account was made up as soon as the monolith was discovered, or even anytime in the past few weeks.

 

There isn't really much publicity, the people who care are a small set of gamers who, through about 3 forums, have been discussing the monolith. It's not like he's made the cover or rolling stone. Especially now after finding out that getting the red cube does nothing, people will care less.

 

You guys are giving Phil Fish way too much credit here. Treyher has pretty much gone on score to say that he's not associated with Treyher, but rather another Dev, and wants to like Fish, but is having a hard time doing so with all the other negative publicity he's been (unintentionally) giving himself.

 

Lemme put it bluntly...

 

Is it worth it to you guys to bluntly force 7^8 (5,764,801 combinations) for one red cube, or at least try the 5^7 combinations with constraints, which is approximately 12,500...

 

Knock yourselves out.

you tell a friend you're stuck on an impossible puzzle, they tell a friend, etc etc. this is the internet. you're selling a cute retro indie game, you make sales. it's a great game, you make more sales. it's a great game with a fabled impossible puzzle, you make even more sales. i wasn't talking about Treyher's fame, since there is none. no one cares since he was given the code. you mean to say one regular guy decides to take a secret to the grave because one guy says so for no apparent reason? that's insane. it would be SO easy to leak the code and say it was brute-forced anonymously. there is reasoning behind the secret, and if not word of mouth sales, then what? exclusivity? that means nothing because he didn't achieve it. considering the nature of the internet, i.e. free information, none of this is logical without a monetary motive.

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Following through with the "human condition" talk, I am beginning to think that there is no solution. The fact that the only evidence has come from someone so close to the production could allow for this to be a hoax. Look at the volume of discussion, and how it manifests in people. Alternately applying pure logic (myriad solution attempts) and pure faith (there *must* be an answer), the community response as a whole rather resembles the response to the concept of god.

 

Except that someone's posted solid video evidence of all 3 cubes, and treyher has pictures of his 3 cubes. We're pretty certain there is a solution, we're not certain if there's anyway to logically derive it.

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because if i was fish and i was talking through a community member, i'd give out red herrings too. the sooner this puzzle is finished, the sooner the hype dies down, and thus the sales. it is a great game in it's own right, but this type of publicity is priceless. i don't mistrust treyher as such, i just understand he is a conduit for fish or at least one of the other people in the know who have little to gain from this solution coming out, and sales to lose when it does.

 

And even more to gain from soundtrack sales if there's clues in there - which would fit the "not derived from in game material" criteria.

 

I totally agree with your conclusion that while treyher himself may (and sure seems to be to me) a reliable person, he may have been fed the solution but ALSO misinformation. I doubt he has anything to gain though as you imply by him being "in the know" but almost certainly has intangibles to lose (trust, relationships, social standing) if he reveals an answer he gave his word to keep secret.

 

I've been lurking on many of the boards and twitter so I don't remember where it originally came up. Could someone clarify, didn't treyher at one time say "I was told..." that the solution couldn't be derived from in game info?

 

I know it's tangential to the discussion about the monolith but treyher has been trying to use the info here to seeming make it fit a word or the lore somehow. So if we can remain suspicious that there is in fact in-game info to find and connect to the solution, we won't constrain ourselves in finding that connection when the brute force solution is found.

 

I'm convinced that the soundtrack is key though. Phil probably didn't sweat the timing that much because a week later probably didn't seem like much when considering how long people might take to dissect such an obviously deep game. But now here we are stuck trying to brute force the (a?) "final" puzzle. Treyher seemed to reinforce this idea with a comment a few pages back about how he expected the solution to be found by brute force "before the OST releases" in the post that he talks about Steve the Titan's video. I ask, "why mention the soundtrack at all?" unless he feels/knows that it does in fact contain the connection but has been asked to remain obtuse about it. Again, my reading has been fragmented, but he wasn't responding to any current (at the time) topic or comment in the thread was he?

Edited by Jedpeter
Autocorrect put "series" so clarification of "derived"
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