PerpetualHeaven Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 And this is all because of Bush? I asked for correlation. And GDP doesn't account for everything. Doesn't account for the amount of poor, the lack of jobs, or how many people don't have jobs. It misses a lot of things. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Who cares about GDP when you should care about the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I N64 I MaRiO Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 And this is all because of Bush? I asked for correlation. And GDP doesn't account for everything. Doesn't account for the amount of poor, the lack of jobs, or how many people don't have jobs. It misses a lot of things. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Who cares about GDP when you should care about the people. 1337 post:p but i'm thinking you have some sorta personal vendetta against bush.. i can't quite point my finger on it.. but congrats on that 1337 post:Bounce: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Odan Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 And this is all because of Bush? I asked for correlation. And GDP doesn't account for everything. Doesn't account for the amount of poor, the lack of jobs, or how many people don't have jobs. It misses a lot of things. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Who cares about GDP when you should care about the people. Of-course one man can't do everything. Tell me that every single president before Bush has single handedly, alone, without help of his cabinet or anyone else, done anything positive for this country? Yes, the middle and lower classes are getting screwed, but who voted for that law? The Congress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oVo Pandora oVo Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Here's a link for the Economic Growth: http://bea.gov/bea/newsrel/gdpnewsrelease.htm Please, provide a link that says that the economy hasn't grown at all. It's easy for the economy to grow when it's been in the dumps lol but easy ho stated our economy is the best it has ever been I don't think people would disagree we have had economic growth the best ever though I don't think so. Why does it take a new congress to want to raise the National Minimum Wage ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerpetualHeaven Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 1337 post:p but i'm thinking you have some sorta personal vendetta against bush.. i can't quite point my finger on it.. but congrats on that 1337 post I don't have a personal vendetta against him. I just think he's a bad leader. That's like saying I have a personal vendetta against Hitler. I don't I just know Hitler was a lunatic and I can recognize that. The economy may be growing according to GDP, but doesn't mean your society is in great shape. Like I said, it doesn't account for a lot of things. Read this: http://usliberals.about.com/b/a/252689.htm - Raising the debt ceiling because of the Iraq war. GDP didn't show that US is in massive debt does it? Quick quote from that article: ""Any objective analysis of our country's fiscal history would have to conclude this administration and this rubberstamping Republican Congress are the most fiscally irresponsible in the history of our country. In fact, no other president or Congress even comes close," - Democratic Senate Leader Harry Reid As I said GDP doesn't show anything for the poor. Here's more proof: http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0525-31.htm Quick quote for you from the article: "For overall poverty, the U.S. numbers (17.1 percent) for 2000 were significantly higher than for most European countries. France, Germany, and the United Kingdom had poverty rates of 7.0 percent, 9.8 percent, and 11.4 percent, respectively. Canada and Japan were lower than the United States, too, with a poverty rate of 10.3 percent and 15.3 percent, respectively. The organization average was just 10.2 percent. For child poverty, the story was not much different. The U.S. rate (21.7 percent) was much higher than most members of the organization or the organization's average as a whole (12.1 percent). The Scandinavian nations had child poverty rates in the 2 to 3 percent range. Speaking of poor. How about taking away food stamps from the poor?" Speaking of poor. How about taking food stamps from the poor? http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/us-poor-set-to-lose-food-stamps/2005/10/29/1130400390006.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Odan Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Yes, we are in debt, that I can't deny and none of us can. But, that is to be expected. We have a large debt with China [not sure how much] and from what it seems, trillions in Iraq. The point was that the economy was growing, not the essence of debt nor social in-tranquility. It is a shame that during its dominance, the Republican Congress placed tax cuts on the rich, but hopefully the democrats will actually do something about it and not make non-binding resolutions that do nothing. It confuses me, they have majority in the House, Senate, and Congress; yet they haven't done much...I mean, the President can't stop that, he can veto, but it'll be over turned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerpetualHeaven Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I know it's growing and that's great. It's always been growing regardless of who the president is. US is a fast growing country. It's an awesome place to live and I love being there everytime i'm at my cousins in Michigan. But, I do not credit America being the great place it is because of Bush and it never has been because of Bush and it never will be. Just some quick figures to throw out there: http://hnn.us/articles/5019.html - Historians vs George W. Bush 81% found him to be a failure. The 19% who thought he was successful, their version of success meant that he was successful in creating terrible policies. Read it. It's nice. [url=http://hnn.us/articles/5019.html][/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Odan Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Btw: That link is about December 05 XD I don't quite understand this part " But, I do not credit America being the great place it is because of Bush and it never has been because of Bush and it never will be." so, I'll reply with something, but correct me if I misunderstood: America is a great country, at least when it comes to ideals. We [Americans], love freedom, and other good and positive values, but sadly we love bad ones too. Our Armed Forces are a great thing, and are full of pride in their service. In particular, the Army is a great thing, whether you believe it or not, the army isn't all about killing, but the army has the most jobs of all the branches and is the only one with a Morality Guide [LDRSHIP]. I know that most Americans are...Ass Holes, but thinking that America isn't great because of one man is just terrible. That man is our Commander in Chief, sure, he makes mistakes but we're all humans. Many countries before us have done the things we've done, and worse! We fight conventionally, and came in with a good intention, but the world hates us. They hate us because of one man. They hate us because we believe everyone is equal, we believe in Freedom and Liberty, they hate us because we let women wear what ever they want and vote. People hate us because " America is a democracy. Let the people choose!" That's wrong to begin with. America is a Federal Republic, where the law rules, not the majority of people. The law states something, and everyone blames Bush. Congress approves something..Nope! Blame Bush! Not the Congress that accepted that bill! Blame ONE man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerpetualHeaven Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Btw: That link is about December 05 XD I don't quite understand this part " But, I do not credit America being the great place it is because of Bush and it never has been because of Bush and it never will be." so, I'll reply with something, but correct me if I misunderstood: America is a great country, at least when it comes to ideals. We [Americans], love freedom, and other good and positive values, but sadly we love bad ones too. Our Armed Forces are a great thing, and are full of pride in their service. In particular, the Army is a great thing, whether you believe it or not, the army isn't all about killing, but the army has the most jobs of all the branches and is the only one with a Morality Guide [LDRSHIP]. I know that most Americans are...Ass Holes, but thinking that America isn't great because of one man is just terrible. That man is our Commander in Chief, sure, he makes mistakes but we're all humans. Many countries before us have done the things we've done, and worse! We fight conventionally, and came in with a good intention, but the world hates us. They hate us because of one man. They hate us because we believe everyone is equal, we believe in Freedom and Liberty, they hate us because we let women wear what ever they want and vote. People hate us because " America is a democracy. Let the people choose!" That's wrong to begin with. America is a Federal Republic, where the law rules, not the majority of people. The law states something, and everyone blames Bush. Congress approves something..Nope! Blame Bush! Not the Congress that accepted that bill! Blame ONE man! He's the president for a reason. And not everyone hates America. I don't hate America. As for Bush, well people hate you guys because you elected the same guy twice. Even though some think the election was rigged twice and if Kerry was elected it may have been much worse but regardless. I have nothing against America. But Bush is not my cup of tea and I think he's a horrible leader. One more thing for the person who said about Katrina and someone else bein there first. All I was saying was that Bush was napping around doing his thing, enjoying his time while people suffered in New Orleans when they could have used the moral support of their leader. Being a leader isn't just about passing bills, making desicions, etc. You have to be there for your people. And I don't think Bush has shown that. How? Well every speech he gives to the people is a bunch of lies. It's physically obvious that he lies through his teeth. Not only that but he rehashes the same speech a lot. He blinks like a madman, his eyes are constantly moving, there are hints of microexpressions, etc. Just lies.. very badly. But who cares, Bush is gone after this year thank the lord and hopefully who ever is after him does a better job. It's hard to top what Bush has done. But that's just my opinion. I don't expect everyone to think he's a bad leader. And yes sept 05 is the links date and if anything, I think things have gotten worse. I don't think anyone is going to change their mind over a year and few months about Bush. And i know it's not only bush. His entire cabinet is full of people like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I N64 I MaRiO Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 this is going to come outta nowhere..but, that'd be cool if oprah winfrey was elected.. its a 2 for 1 a women... and a black person or hell a 3 for 1 a women a black person a black women:D but kerry IMO woulda been better than bush 2nd term i know i can't beleive i said it..but i did.. he's got big jowels..and he laughs funny:) and i heard that bush isn't writing a journal like previous presidents before him..i wonder why ( clinton wrote a journal, bush sr. wrote a journal...about day-to-day life about presidency...and what they did while in office etc. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Odan Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Ah, I think I took your previous statement out of context. The thing is that we have the Electoral College [which should be removed T.T], which is why Bush won twice. The microexpresions is because when he lies or says something, he isn't confident about it. I mean, someone can lie and convince you well, but he does blink like 5464684654 times nor does he look at you like " BELIEVE ME" On the most part about being a leader, I agree. A leader leads by example. I mean, if he had gone there to New Orleans and stayed with the people, then one could say he isn't bad. But, that was just terrriblre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I N64 I MaRiO Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 electoral college votes for the guy with majority..so bush would have won anyways... a leader has to be a follower first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Odan Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 electoral college votes for the guy with majority..so bush would have won anyways... a leader has to be a follower first Ugh, no. Electoral Votes doesn't count the majority. Al Gore had the majority in the elections but lost by electoral vote. It's complicated, from what I've gathered from Politcal Science class [cousin takes them and then teaches me]. Basically, the people choose the Elector and then in December the Electors of the Electoral College VOTE for the President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bludy ASSASSIN Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 it's amazing after 3 days that this thread has near 200 posts. it just seams politics just start heeted arguments and in the end no one side really wins. but since this post is about bush lets get started. First, he has stained this country, and the way people view and talk about it,he has let our economy dwindle its harder for people to find jobs and for people with out jobs almost imposible. he sits in his texas ranch whil hundreds of thousands or more people starve and live out on the streets probably a 1/4 to a fifth of them being women and children. He has ignored the peoples voice and is sending more soldiers into the middle east, our govrnment was almost out of debt until he started this war on people that had nothing to do or support the 911 attack. has spent hundreds of thoasands of tax dollars on singling out most of the muslims and people of muslim decent taping thier phone lines and arresting them for no right reason.(how many people were actaully guilty that were arrested) all that money could have been used to help Katrina victims when the insurance agencies bitched out,( that he never really acted anyway correct on) or to put the money back that he took out of school funding, or finishing paying off the debt that we wouldn't have cause of him,or how about medicare and supporting the elderly and retired who cant afford their meds. We are the world supper power and we depend more on other countries like china. the piont is he's a failure he is the president of the USA and cant take care of a war he really started (besides the bombing) but i thought the main goal ws to search for weopons of mass destuction(hs he found any? and after how many years of searching?) and know we're in the middle of a civil war of a different countrie if he cant take care of the US people then he shouldn't be tring to help some other countrie the only reason hes doing this is so we have a nice steady flow of oil coming to the US so the oil "componies" get richier and growe greadier. so yes hes a major failure but whats he care after his times up he cnt be re-elected anways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bludy ASSASSIN Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 electoral college votes for the guy with majority..so bush would have won anyways... a leader has to be a follower first this is how it goes in a more specific explenation. when elction time come around people vote for the select few to represent them in the votes. now what there supposed to do is vote for what the the people said going by majority loosly.know every state has a sertine amount of electoral votes judjing on the population texas having the most (thats why bush wonhttp://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif) thats why u here about the runners for pres going to all the states not to have a goodtime and all that all they care about is the votes. so then the reps vote for pres and say that MO's reps go for 11 for the dems and 2 fo the repulics those pionts go to there pres and then whoever has most electoal votes win. even though the dems won the majority bush still had more electoral votes http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/images/icons/icon8.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxb easy hoxx Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Nobody has a right to say anything about the way that bush won because he won the same way that Clinton and former presidents have won. one thing that i can say about some people is that they expect their government to do everything for them. If you can't find a job in America it's because you aren't looking hard enough. Just remember people the more you want from the government the more taxes that you have to pay. They don't work for free. but i guess you guys already know that because you are the ones supporting higher taxes for things like dirty sluts getting their welfare check every month because they can't keep their legs closed. The lower your taxes the more people spend and the more the economy grows. That is why the stock market hit record high's during Bush's administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerpetualHeaven Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Nobody has a right to say anything about the way that bush won because he won the same way that Clinton and former presidents have won. one thing that i can say about some people is that they expect their government to do everything for them. If you can't find a job in America it's because you aren't looking hard enough. Just remember people the more you want from the government the more taxes that you have to pay. They don't work for free. but i guess you guys already know that because you are the ones supporting higher taxes for things like dirty sluts getting their welfare check every month because they can't keep their legs closed. The lower your taxes the more people spend and the more the economy grows. That is why the stock market hit record high's during Bush's administration. That's just how it is? Not looking hard enough? What would you know exactly about being dirt poor with no job? And you think people live in luxury with a welfare check? Man welfare in North America isn't that much. Doesn't even meet most of the necessities of life. I mean in Canada it was cut down 23% a few years ago now people only getting 400. 400 for what? I don't even think you can pay off a single bedroom apartment in Canada for 400 bucks a month. You think minimum wage just cuts it? Life is getting more and more expensive man. It's not cheap to live a mediocre life. Sometimes just getting a job doesn't get you by. Some can't afford to get a proper education or to hone their skills to be good at things. They don't have those opportunities. If you're born into a poor family, you'll generally end up being poor. It's hard to break out of that chain. You can't just sit here and be like, "You know they aren't trying hard enough." That life is different man. It's not the same life everyone leads. It's not just one day you go, "Oh yeah you know i'm poor I better go find a job you know how it easy it is with my amazing experience." I believe in redistribution and I don't mind paying taxes so people who are dirt poor can still go in to the doctors even if the service isn't grade A. Unleast I know i'm contributing so people will still maybe have a chance. And 14% isn't nothing. Look at Europe. They redistribute so much. And their poverty rates are so much lower then North Americas. I wonder why? People pay taxes out of their ass there but unleast everyone is getting equal opportunities and have a chance at a decent life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webb Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I believe in redistribution and I don't mind paying taxes so people who are dirt poor can still go in to the doctors even if the service isn't grade A. Unleast I know i'm contributing so people will still maybe have a chance. And 14% isn't nothing. Look at Europe. They redistribute so much. And their poverty rates are so much lower then North Americas. I wonder why? People pay taxes out of their ass there but unleast everyone is getting equal opportunities and have a chance at a decent life. So you think it's fair that people who work 40 hour weeks pay for those that do nothing all week. Hardly. You work a few years at 33% tax and you'd soon change your opinion when you see the adverse affect it is having on our nation. It may mean that poverty levels are less but the simple fact that this system is crippling the hard working men and women of this nation is hardly a worthy sacrifice. The attitude of a majority of people is "Whats the point? When I can do nothing and get pretty much the same" Not the desired effect that you perceive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Yeah, we redistribute wealth. And I pay 40% tax so that I can pay for some lazy little twat who cant be arsed to get a job, and feels that having 7 children and watching Jerry Springer is a career. So why is it fair that I work 60+ hours a week, and have to give over 40% of my earnings?? If i liked children id be happy at home with 7 of them laughing at American rednecks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMOUFLAGEiPOD Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Politics and Religon, are two things I never talk about when I am drunk (hiccup) People are so convinced they are on the winning team they wont lend a ear to the innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerpetualHeaven Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 So you think it's fair that people who work 40 hour weeks pay for those that do nothing all week. Hardly. You work a few years at 33% tax and you'd soon change your opinion when you see the adverse affect it is having on our nation. It may mean that poverty levels are less but the simple fact that this system is crippling the hard working men and women of this nation is hardly a worthy sacrifice. The attitude of a majority of people is "Whats the point? When I can do nothing and get pretty much the same" Not the desired effect that you perceive. I don't pay 33% but I would have a problem. I don't mind paying 14% which is almost double what some Americans pay. Even so, the government should properly redistribute. There should be some equality for those who don't have similar opportunities. I mean Canada is viewed as a socialist country and we redistribute extremely well with 14% tax. I can't speak for the UK so I won't but I don't mind paying 14% knowing that it's going towards free health care, welfare for people who actually need it, etc. I don't think to myself that people can't get off their ass to go get a job. It isn't always as easy as that and I acknowledge it. Now you're probably right that 33% is crippling the people who are working hard. That is more then double what Canadians pay and 5 times what some Americans pay. I don't know how much welfare people get in the UK but it's almost nothing in Canada. It's not like people can just sit back and enjoy life while people are working hard trying to support their family. Welfare is running around 400$CDN a month here which is barely anything. So yeah I don't mind working hard and paying some taxes but that's for the tax percent here in Canada. I'd probably pissed about the percent over in the UK. Out of curiousity, where do you tax dollars go? That's a crap load of money so i'm just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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