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What do you think the "monstrous origin" of the Reapers will be?


NovemEnuma
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If the "Fact Finder" achievement is about the Reapers, what do you think the "monstrous origin" of the Reapers will be?

 

Could the Reapers be basically...gods of the Mass Effect universe? The Reapers created organic species' to simply observe, eventually harvesting them for energy so they can continue to function--similar to how humans raise livestock and grow fruits/vegetables (also used for reproduction). I know my theory seems pretty out there, but I just hope their origin isn't a mirror of the quarian/geth relationship. I want a more original storyline than the simple "robots rebelling against their creators, then exterminate all organics" that's seen in nearly ALL sci-fi having robotics in it.

 

If that IS the case--the case that the Reapers rebelled against their creators, now want to exterminate all organics--in my opinion, it's not monstrous whatsoever; just cliche.

Edited by NovemEnuma
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I dont think BW will take the cheap route and label them as 'gods,' since their creative team is much better than that.

 

I don't mean "god" gods, I just used the term to indicate the created something. I guess gods wouldn't be the proper term to use then (lol). (I still like the idea of them creating organics for the simple purpose of using as energy for survival).

 

Also, if BioWare uses the same cliche storyline of rebelling robots used in practically ALL sci-fi with robots in it (i.e. Terminator), they aren't nearly as creative as you give them credit for.

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I don't mean "god" gods, I just used the term to indicate the created something. I guess gods wouldn't be the proper term to use then (lol). (I still like the idea of them creating organics for the simple purpose of using as energy for survival).

 

Also, if BioWare uses the same cliche storyline of rebelling robots used in practically ALL sci-fi with robots in it (i.e. Terminator), they aren't nearly as creative as you give them credit for.

 

Well, if you want to be technical about it, its the AI that is rebelling, not "robots"

 

And, in a technological age, rogue AI is a concern as we increase our technology to that point, which is why many Sci-fi writers discuss that topic. That doesnt make the BW writers any less creative, considering they created an entire mythos on the scale of the Star Wars universe in less then 5 years, from scratch.

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Well, if you want to be technical about it, its the AI that is rebelling, not "robots"

 

And, in a technological age, rogue AI is a concern as we increase our technology to that point, which is why many Sci-fi writers discuss that topic. That doesnt make the BW writers any less creative, considering they created an entire mythos on the scale of the Star Wars universe in less then 5 years, from scratch.

 

Then we agree to disagree than.

 

I think it would be horribly uncreative for BioWare to pull the same ol' "rebelling robots" storyline that I've seen countless times, and it wouldn't be a "monstrous origin" at all; more like a very cliche, bland, and way too predictable origin. (I would be EXTREMELY disappointed if they opted for it). It wouldn't make Mass Effect in it's entirety uncreative though, because you're right about the "entire mythos" portion.

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Then we agree to disagree than.

 

I think it would be horribly uncreative for BioWare to pull the same ol' "rebelling robots" storyline that I've seen countless times, and it wouldn't be a "monstrous origin" at all; more like a very cliche, bland, and way too predictable origin. (I would be EXTREMELY disappointed if they opted for it). It wouldn't make Mass Effect in it's entirety uncreative though, because you're right about the "entire mythos" portion.

 

Im not sure about what the story is going to be, but i am impressed about how they decided to end the trilogy from what ive read on the leaked story files.

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To the Op, Where have you been? Have you not been paying attention to the stories of ME1 and ME2? Go back to ME1 and listen to what Soveriegn says to Shephard and then what the AI says on Ilos. Then consider all the "flashes" shepherd has and then what we discovered in ME2 at the end. The Reapers were the "first" race and transcended death by using technology as a means to continue their own existance. In order to maintain their lifeforce they need organic and dark energy. They reside in deep space in hybernation while civilization grows and builds. Once it is large enough the Reapers come and cull all organic life to renew themselves, create more of themselves, and then go back into deep space and allow organic life to grow again in order to repeat the process. The Reapers are not, "just" machines, they are both machine and organic.

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I simply believe orginally they were the first intelligent organic species that thru technology and natural evolution became who they are now. I believe they harvest and absorb other races to further their own evolution. But we will see in about a month!

 

EDIT: LOL kinda what ExtremeRugburn said. I just read your response.

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To the Op, Where have you been? Have you not been paying attention to the stories of ME1 and ME2? Go back to ME1 and listen to what Soveriegn says to Shephard and then what the AI says on Ilos. Then consider all the "flashes" shepherd has and then what we discovered in ME2 at the end. The Reapers were the "first" race and transcended death by using technology as a means to continue their own existance. In order to maintain their lifeforce they need organic and dark energy. They reside in deep space in hybernation while civilization grows and builds. Once it is large enough the Reapers come and cull all organic life to renew themselves, create more of themselves, and then go back into deep space and allow organic life to grow again in order to repeat the process. The Reapers are not, "just" machines, they are both machine and organic.

 

I would be satisfied with that.

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Have you not been paying attention to the stories of ME1 and ME2? Go back to ME1 and listen to what Soveriegn says to Shephard and then what the AI says on Ilos. Then consider all the "flashes" shepherd has and then what we discovered in ME2 at the end. The Reapers were the "first" race and transcended death by using technology as a means to continue their own existance.

 

Neither ME1 nor ME2 says this.

 

It's possible that it's correct, given what we know. But even it it transpired to be the case, why would the Reapers need to 'transcend' their death? If they were the first civilisation, their death at the hands of whom exactly?

 

It's entirely speculation at this point. Unless you've read the leaked script, which I havent. But if you have I don't even want you to post again in case of spoilers.

Edited by Rivercurse
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Neither ME1 nor ME2 says this.

 

It's likely to be the case given what we know, but even it it transpired to be the case, why would the Reapers need to 'transcend' their death? Their death at the hands of whom exactly?

 

It's entirely speculation at this point. Unless you;ve read the leaked script, which I havent. But if you have I don't even want you to post again in case of spoilers.

 

Um...how about transcend their own mortality?

 

They wanted/want immortality, simple as that--so they used technology to do so. (Speculation, of course).

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Given what we know about them... They use organic life to create more of themselves (and the Dragon's Teeth basically melt down people in much the same way as the goo on the collector's base...). But, not EVERY species can become a Reaper. Some end up simply indoctrinated and used. Or melted down into Husks for other purposes.

 

My assumption has always been that a race created them FOR WAR with another race. Or rather, created a SINGLE vessel. It was completely autonomous and was programmed only with "seek out x life and destoy it, then assimilate their tech for study or usefulness".

 

Over the generations, this might've evolved into some kind of sentient program with its own goals. Perhaps it decided that one galaxy was too large for a single Reaper to work with. It couldn't do its job by itself, and it was incredibly vulnerable. So, it figured out how to create more of itself. It harvested colonies to create more.

 

Eventually they became "self aware" and started doing the "purge and assimilate" out of survival instead of an order from some long dead race. All creatures just want to exist and be allowed to exist. Survival is what carries us into future generations.

 

So, the Reapers, now TOO NUMEROUS for the Galaxy... Decided to set up a trap and "hibernate". It was the only way to keep alive. Let the galaxy replenish its life, and let the life that existed do the work of "research" for them. Who else could create Element Zero for them while they were hibernating? They couldn't very well continue to do it themselves with their resource supplies dwindling. No power supply lasts forever and there isn't a material that doesn't degrade or get damaged. The only way to stay alive was to hibernate and set a trap for Organics. To get them to create the Eezo that was necessary to power the Reaper systems and create new ones... And the only way to get the species in numerous enough numbers for a USEFUL culling. They even "overlooked" species that weren't yet able to engage in space travel. They weren't useful and weren't numerous enough. But those species could perhaps be useful in the NEXT cycle.

 

But hey... That's my theory.

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Um.. how about where in either game does the phrase "transcend their mortality" occur? Or even a reference to something that means the same?

 

Its just speculation presented as fact.

 

Reading must not be your thing, because in the very same post I said it was speculation.

Edited by NovemEnuma
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Reading must not be your thing, because in the very same post I said it was speculation. For future reference: you should really learn to read better before being snarky and/or being witty. kk?

 

You can't correct someone with 'speculation'. And a comment that starts "um, how about xxx" is an attempted correction, kk?

 

Edit @Tai - Eezo is a naturally occuring element. Organics only utilise it, they don't create it.

Edited by Rivercurse
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Might be spoilers for some but I recommend watching this.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqtAHNQT3-w]Mass Effect 2 - Legion On The Nature Of Reapers - YouTube[/ame]

 

Assuming my theory is correct and that the original reaper race somehow screwed up the galaxy just like what's happening with Dholen. I'd say that they turned themselves into a reaper order to try and fix their wrongs.

 

Now piecing together what Sovereign said on Virmire and the Dholen problem i'd say they need new life to evolve using reaper technology and not their own just in case they screw the galaxy up even more. Then at the decided pinnacle of their allowed technological evolution (every 50000 years) the reapers cull them and turn the most useful and compatible race into a new space cuttlefish.

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^ Ooh a didymos video! What's your bsn username if you have one?

 

Incidentally, why do you think that the dark energy that's destabilising Dholen is caused by organics rather than a natural phenomena? Bear in mind i haven't read the leaked script so no spoilers please if this is what you're basing it on..

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^ Ooh a didymos video! What's your bsn username if you have one?

 

It's "plasma wing" I believe. I cant say that I have ever posted on the forums, I just sometimes pop on now and again.

 

Incidentally, why do you think that the dark energy that's destabilising Dholen is caused by organics rather than a natural phenomena? Bear in mind i haven't read the leaked script so no spoilers please if this is what you're basing it on..

 

I haven't looked at the leaked script so don't worry. If what I wrote has any similarities to it then it's pure coincidence.

 

I was actually basing my theory on what was said about it during ME2. So currently nobody knows for sure what's causing it, so it can either be natural or artificial. I.E through the use of Element Zero.

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I know my theory seems pretty out there, but I just hope their origin isn't a mirror of the quarian/geth relationship. I want a more original storyline than the simple "robots rebelling against their creators, then exterminate all organics" that's seen in nearly ALL sci-fi having robotics in it.

 

The problem with Sci-Fi is it has to make sense with no single logical flaw, that is why Sci-Fi stories are often "reused" If Bioware came out with a unique ending with elements not grounded in established Sci-Fi lore then fans everywhere would be pissed off as it would be seen as cheap.

 

Well, if you want to be technical about it, its the AI that is rebelling, not "robots"

 

And, in a technological age, rogue AI is a concern as we increase our technology to that point, which is why many Sci-fi writers discuss that topic. That doesnt make the BW writers any less creative, considering they created an entire mythos on the scale of the Star Wars universe in less then 5 years, from scratch.

 

Robots are the hardware, AI is the software, and Bioware haven't created an entire mythos from scratch, most of the themes and ideas in the ME universe have been done by Sci-Fi writers of the past, Bioware have simply updated and added their spin to it.

 

It's possible that it's correct, given what we know. But even it it transpired to be the case, why would the Reapers need to 'transcend' their death? If they were the first civilisation, their death at the hands of whom exactly?

 

Like everything in the universe, repears would be effected by the constant change in space-time. So all that follow could be their "life support". I know in ME1 Sovereign claims that the reapers weren't created, they only existed but this would defy Sci-Fi lore.

 

My assumption has always been that a race created them FOR WAR with another race. Or rather, created a SINGLE vessel. It was completely autonomous and was programmed only with "seek out x life and destoy it, then assimilate their tech for study or usefulness".

 

Over the generations, this might've evolved into some kind of sentient program with its own goals. Perhaps it decided that one galaxy was too large for a single Reaper to work with. It couldn't do its job by itself, and it was incredibly vulnerable. So, it figured out how to create more of itself. It harvested colonies to create more.

 

Eventually they became "self aware" and started doing the "purge and assimilate" out of survival instead of an order from some long dead race. All creatures just want to exist and be allowed to exist. Survival is what carries us into future generations.

 

This would be my guess as the true backstory of the reapers, although it is an "AI cliche" it would be the most logical answer given the facts Bioware has presented to us.

Edited by DEG23
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Like everything in the universe, repears would be effected by the constant change in space-time. So all that follow could be their "life support". I know in ME1 Sovereign claims that the reapers weren't created, they only existed but this would defy Sci-Fi lore.

 

Yes, I know I have posted this before in another thread, but it's relevant again here. A Reaper origin theory from 2 years ago that would explain why Sovreign might consider himself to "have no beginning", and "have no end".

 

Link

 

This is by no means the answer, but even if it's a bit Lost-esque, it's a great and imaginative theory.

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Yes, I know I have posted this before in another thread, but it's relevant again here. A Reaper origin theory from 2 years ago that would explain why Sovreign might consider himself to "have no beginning", and "have no end".

 

Link

 

This is by no means the answer, but even if it's a bit Lost-esque, it's a great and imaginative theory.

 

Out of curiosity, where did this come from?

 

I agree, it's a good theory but there are too many unexplained variables, (the reason i questioned where it came from). After the time rift jump, the reapers convert their old selves into the new "reapers". Now i take it the goal of this was to continue the research into stopping a premature death of the galaxy.

 

So the reapers combine themselves into a collective, again i going to assume they now exist on a singularity or shared collective thought. So when the old reapers are harvested and converted into new reaper vessals, then wouldn't they be intergrated into the collective thought as it wouldn't make sense to have them part of the fleet, but deny them all access to all current knowledge.

 

Then the weak part, the "unintended consquence" the death of old reapers and the link to past life broken?? This would explain why the reapers see themselves as always existing like Soveriegn mentioned, but for the two "old repears and new repears" to exisit together there would have to be a shared thought or ideology, so even after the death of the old reapers, the new reapers would still be aware of past events.

 

This is why i find the history of reapers to be difficult to understand as there is yet to be a solid explanation that makes logical sense.

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Neither ME1 nor ME2 says this.

 

It's possible that it's correct, given what we know. But even it it transpired to be the case, why would the Reapers need to 'transcend' their death? If they were the first civilisation, their death at the hands of whom exactly?

 

It's entirely speculation at this point. Unless you've read the leaked script, which I havent. But if you have I don't even want you to post again in case of spoilers.

 

Um...how about transcend their own mortality?

 

They wanted/want immortality, simple as that--so they used technology to do so. (Speculation, of course).

 

I meant what NovemEnuma said above. They used advanced technology in order to prolong their existence in an attempt at immortality, because as we know they can still be destroyed. ME1 and ME2 dont directly say anything in the exact words I used above but based on what is said and from the flashes Shephard receives and the events that occurr my hypothesis has strong validity.

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You can't correct someone with 'speculation'. And a comment that starts "um, how about xxx" is an attempted correction, kk?

 

Edit @Tai - Eezo is a naturally occuring element. Organics only utilise it, they don't create it.

 

 

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Eezo

 

It says it is naturally occurring... But at the same time, doesn't say it can't be manufactured. Especially since we know HOW it's created, it can be inferred that it can be manufactured.

 

Though, it might be like Diamonds of today.

 

We CAN create diamonds. It's just more expensive to create them than to mine them.

 

Plus, on Tali's recruitment mission in ME2, it's inferred that someone might either be seeding the star to make it go supernova with Dark Matter.

 

Besides, where else would you get Eezo as the Reapers to keep your Mass Effect fields working? As well as keep the Mass Relays working.

 

Just sayin' ya know...

 

If a species doesn't CREATE the Eezo... At least they MINE IT for the Reapers.

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Yes, I know I have posted this before in another thread, but it's relevant again here. A Reaper origin theory from 2 years ago that would explain why Sovreign might consider himself to "have no beginning", and "have no end".

 

Link

 

This is by no means the answer, but even if it's a bit Lost-esque, it's a great and imaginative theory.

 

Apart from the crazy time travel I would go with something similar to that, kind of like my idea.

 

I just don't want the reapers ending up as another boring bad guy killing everyone because they can. I want them to be abit like the BOS, NCR and Caesar's Legion (for the most part) from Fallout good ideals at heart but crap execution.

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im hoping/guessing we wont get an answer to that.. maybe a 'guess' or questionable theory at most.. they will keep an open ending in that part of the game I hope.

 

My guess is still an acient clan/group/family ( fill in what you fancy) that went beserk destroyed their own system. after this they are slowly rebuilding that very sytem using the energy of some races they kill and using the 'úsefull' races to rebuild that system.

 

I still dont fully believe the reapers are what they seem to be. im still hoping they turn out to be massive ships thta have a person/group of persons fully intergrated into them ( sort of like that kid in the overlord DLC in ME2 (with the geth controlling powers) but on a much bigger scale)

 

im hoping for this since its not as cliche as the AI gone rogue. but that might just be me I guess

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