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Old 07-01-2015, 12:59 AM   #1081
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Originally Posted by ThunderingLefty View Post
Tell that to Arizona $18 million UNDER the cap floor. Or Buffalo or Nashville, both $10 million below.
The issue isn't cap space necessarily. Teams like those probably are going to stay that far below the cap because that is their budget.

You basically have two types of teams. Teams that are willing to spend to cap and teams that aren't. Neither of those types are big into spending tons of money and resources to pick up big contracts for aging players.

For teams willing to spend to cap it limits their wriggle room. Those types of teams like to be $2-5 million under the cap entering the season so they can make any necessary changes during the season.

For budget teams it destroys any chance they have of being competitive on a budget. Those teams need to hit on the draft picks and prospects they would give up to get the player.

Quote:
No, trading Sharp means keeping Saad. I'd have traded Sharp for a prospect or a 3rd rounder to keep Saad. Maybe less. Now both will be gone for very little in return.
First of all, I like Anisemov. He might not be on Saad's level and he is 5 years older but he is due for a breakout and hitting the common age for an NHLers prime.

Also, odds were Saad and Sharp were going to be gone anyway, that is part of what we have been trying to tell you. The Hawks can't just think about whether they can get under $71 million this year (which is going to be hard)...they have to think about their cap numbers beyond this year. This team has to get blown up a little.
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Old 07-01-2015, 01:20 AM   #1082
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Originally Posted by bigbear. View Post
The issue isn't cap space necessarily. Teams like those probably are going to stay that far below the cap because that is their budget.

You basically have two types of teams. Teams that are willing to spend to cap and teams that aren't. Neither of those types are big into spending tons of money and resources to pick up big contracts for aging players.

For teams willing to spend to cap it limits their wriggle room. Those types of teams like to be $2-5 million under the cap entering the season so they can make any necessary changes during the season.

For budget teams it destroys any chance they have of being competitive on a budget. Those teams need to hit on the draft picks and prospects they would give up to get the player.
Do you know what cap floor means? There is a minimum salary cap (floor) and a maximum salary cap. Arizona HAS to spend to the cap floor. Their budget doesn't matter, they have to spend $52.8 to reach the floor. All teams MUST spend between at least $52.8, but no more than 71.4. Arizona is way under $52.8 with 14 players signed.
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Old 07-01-2015, 01:23 AM   #1083
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Originally Posted by ThunderingLefty View Post
I'd have expected Sharp (age 33) and Bickell to be moved, and maybe Versteeg before Saad (22 years old). Moving those 3 would have been enough clearance to sign Saad and Kruger and fill out the rest of the roster with a couple rookie deals and a few $1mil role players.

Even if he wanted $6mil aav, an offer sheet of around $5.5 would have brought back 3 draft picks. Our draft was meager this year (first pick #54) since we traded the picks at the deadline.

The obvious moves were trading Sharp and Bickell for $9.9mil of cap space. That would leave a little more than $17mil for 10.

I see Richards coming back for around $1.5-2 since the Rangers are still paying his buyout. Kruger for around $2-2.2. From Rockford adding Johns for 800k as the 6th Dman and some combination of Hartman 900k, McNeill 863k, Nordstrom 900k, or Danault 863k would leave around 7 mil left for Saad and 2 others.

The roster could have looked something like this:
Saad $5 - Toews $10.5 - Hossa $5.3
FA $1.5 - Richards $2 - Kane $10.5
Versteeg $2.2 - Teravainen $900k - Shaw $2
Nordstrom $900k - Kruger $2 - Hartman $900k
McNeill 863k
Danault $863k

Seabrook $5.8 - Keith $5.5
Hjalmarsson $4.1 - vanRiemsdyk $925k
FA $1.5 - Rundblad $1.2
Johns $800k

Crawford $6
Darling $588k
= 71.839

That's pretty close. Swap Versteeg for someone 500k cheaper and done.
Here's the thing with the cap though. You absolutely do NOT want to be at 71 Million at the start of the season. For 3 reasons.

1) If you have any type of injuries and need to call someone up, if you are at the cap you can't.

2) Bonuses. Those bonuses that were vetted from the year before will push you over the cap.

3) Being at the cap hamstrings you in terms of what you can do around the trade deadline (or any other time for that matter)

In regards to Versteeg and Bickell sure, you'd want to trade them. The reasons you would want to trade them are the same reason other teams don't want them. NHL teams aren't in the business of saying "Hey, let me take your crappy contracts"

I wouldn't say the Hawks got nothing in return for Saad. Anisimov is a very good player. He has never had consistently good line mates I think he'll do very well in Chicago. Dano projects to be a 2-3rd line forward. Good size and speed. Morin and Tropp are decent depth guys for cheap which is exactly what Chicago needs.

Here's the thing about waiting for an offer sheet. You are going to lose Saad either way. By trading him you get guaranteed assets. You get to pick what you want, and know who you're getting. Versus waiting for the offer sheet and getting those picks. Those picks may not be ready for 2,3 or 4 years so they do nothing for your team in the short term.

If this shows us anything it's, it's not easy being an NHL GM and you better keep track of your cap number or it will bite you in the ass down the road
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Old 07-01-2015, 01:24 AM   #1084
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Originally Posted by ThunderingLefty View Post
Do you know what cap floor means? There is a minimum salary cap (floor) and a maximum salary cap. Arizona HAS to spend to the cap floor. Their budget doesn't matter, they have to spend $52.8 to reach the floor. All teams MUST spend between at least $52.8, but no more than 71.4. Arizona is way under $52.8 with 14 players signed.
I'm sorry, I was unclear. Those teams are unlikely to spend much above the floor. They will sign their free agents and some budget veterans and get just barely above the floor. Trading for expensive veterans is something those teams almost never do. It is counter productive to their strategy.
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Old 07-01-2015, 01:51 AM   #1085
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Originally Posted by ThunderingLefty View Post
Do you know what cap floor means? There is a minimum salary cap (floor) and a maximum salary cap. Arizona HAS to spend to the cap floor. Their budget doesn't matter, they have to spend $52.8 to reach the floor. All teams MUST spend between at least $52.8, but no more than 71.4. Arizona is way under $52.8 with 14 players signed.
Arizona has 12 players under contract right now +2.6 m retained from the Yandle trade and 1.444 m from the Ribeiro buyout. So they will need to sign 8-11 players yet.

Arizona isn't going to take a bad contract just to take one. Although if they want Mikko Koivu I would be more than happy to drive him out there personally and drop him off.
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Old 07-02-2015, 01:04 AM   #1086
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So the Pens just became an even greater contender for the Cup today...

And they got him for practically a steal too, what a horrible trade (if you're a Leafs fan).
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Old 07-02-2015, 01:17 AM   #1087
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So the Pens just became an even greater contender for the Cup today...

And they got him for practically a steal too, what a horrible trade (if you're a Leafs fan).
If they draft well with the R1 pick it should end up being a great trade for Toronto in the long run.
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Old 07-02-2015, 02:18 AM   #1088
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So the Pens just became an even greater contender for the Cup today...

And they got him for practically a steal too, what a horrible trade (if you're a Leafs fan).
I disagree on both parts.

First, in regards to the trade - I like it from the Leafs perspective. They got a decent return for him and more importantly they got out from that big cap hit - though they retained some of the salary. If Kessel wasn't fitting into their locker room or their long term plans cut bait and get what you can.

Second - While the Pens now have Kessel they will most certainly have to get rid of somone else. Thier cap control now is about the same/or worse than the Blackhawks. You just can't have that much money tied up into 5 players and compete night in and night out. Especially the history of injuries the Pens big guns have (Crosby and Letang) in particular.

The Pens are more top heavy now than they were last year, and I thought last year was bad.
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Old 07-02-2015, 02:26 AM   #1089
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Argh. Eichel has already signed with Buffalo. This puts me very ill at ease as its giving me a very "Edmonton" vibe about how he's being handled.
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Old 07-02-2015, 08:58 PM   #1090
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How I see the Saad trade going down.

Bowman: "We need you here"
Saad: "I want to be here"
Agent: "Dude, you can make a ton of money"
Bowman: "4 years, $17 mil"
Saad: "Sounds good to me"
Agent: "Woah, kiddo. you're worth like twice that"
Agent: "Stan, we want 6 for $36. Or we'll wait for an offer sheet"
Bowman: "Can't do it this year"
Agent: "Columbus has the picks and money to offer sheet what we want"
Bowman: "We still can't do it"
Saad: "I like Chi..."
Agent: "Quiet kid, I got this"
Bowman: "Give us a number we can work with or well have to trade him"
Agent: "He's bluffing kid, he'll come up. He has to or he'll lose you to an offer sheet"
Saad: Are you sure, I don't know how any of this works"
Agent: "Stan, we'll wait for an offer"
Bowman: "Hello, Columbus?...Yeah so, um, give us a couple guys we can use this year in positions you're deep at, you can have Saad since his agent is an idjiit"
Columbus: "DEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !"
Agent: "Um, what just happened here?""
Saad: "But, but, I wanted to stay in Chicago"
Bowman: "And we wanted you to. Good luck. Thank your agent"
Agent: "Um..."
Saad: "So now what?"
Agent: "Well, Columbus will pay up. They'll have to"
Columbus: "4 for $20"
Agent: "Huh, that's it?"
Saad: "But you said I was worth more"
Columbus: "Well, your agent screwed you"
Saad: "I would have stayed in Chicago for that"
Agent: ".........."
Saad: "Well..."
Agent: "Well what happened was, I bluffed. Stan called. You lose"
Columbus: "Sign here. Initial here."
Agent: "I thought Stan was bluffing. I guess he was serious. Now we lost our leverage with Columbus in the trade, sign it kid"
Saad: [while signing] "You're fired"
Bowman: "Yo Arty, 5 for $22. Here's the check. Oops, gotta erase Saad's name first"
Saad: "F'n Columbus....wtf"
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Old 07-02-2015, 09:41 PM   #1091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderingLefty View Post
How I see the Saad trade going down.

Bowman: "We need you here"
Saad: "I want to be here"
Agent: "Dude, you can make a ton of money"
Bowman: "4 years, $17 mil"
Saad: "Sounds good to me"
Agent: "Woah, kiddo. you're worth like twice that"
Agent: "Stan, we want 6 for $36. Or we'll wait for an offer sheet"
Bowman: "Can't do it this year"
Agent: "Columbus has the picks and money to offer sheet what we want"
Bowman: "We still can't do it"
Saad: "I like Chi..."
Agent: "Quiet kid, I got this"
Bowman: "Give us a number we can work with or well have to trade him"
Agent: "He's bluffing kid, he'll come up. He has to or he'll lose you to an offer sheet"
Saad: Are you sure, I don't know how any of this works"
Agent: "Stan, we'll wait for an offer"
Bowman: "Hello, Columbus?...Yeah so, um, give us a couple guys we can use this year in positions you're deep at, you can have Saad since his agent is an idjiit"
Columbus: "DEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !"
Agent: "Um, what just happened here?""
Saad: "But, but, I wanted to stay in Chicago"
Bowman: "And we wanted you to. Good luck. Thank your agent"
Agent: "Um..."
Saad: "So now what?"
Agent: "Well, Columbus will pay up. They'll have to"
Columbus: "4 for $20"
Agent: "Huh, that's it?"
Saad: "But you said I was worth more"
Columbus: "Well, your agent screwed you"
Saad: "I would have stayed in Chicago for that"
Agent: ".........."
Saad: "Well..."
Agent: "Well what happened was, I bluffed. Stan called. You lose"
Columbus: "Sign here. Initial here."
Agent: "I thought Stan was bluffing. I guess he was serious. Now we lost our leverage with Columbus in the trade, sign it kid"
Saad: [while signing] "You're fired"
Bowman: "Yo Arty, 5 for $22. Here's the check. Oops, gotta erase Saad's name first"
Saad: "F'n Columbus....wtf"
Sounds about right.
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Old 07-05-2015, 06:30 AM   #1092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderingLefty View Post
How I see the Saad trade going down.

Bowman: "We need you here"
Saad: "I want to be here"
Agent: "Dude, you can make a ton of money"
Bowman: "4 years, $17 mil"
Saad: "Sounds good to me"
Agent: "Woah, kiddo. you're worth like twice that"
Agent: "Stan, we want 6 for $36. Or we'll wait for an offer sheet"
Bowman: "Can't do it this year"
Agent: "Columbus has the picks and money to offer sheet what we want"
Bowman: "We still can't do it"
Saad: "I like Chi..."
Agent: "Quiet kid, I got this"
Bowman: "Give us a number we can work with or well have to trade him"
Agent: "He's bluffing kid, he'll come up. He has to or he'll lose you to an offer sheet"
Saad: Are you sure, I don't know how any of this works"
Agent: "Stan, we'll wait for an offer"
Bowman: "Hello, Columbus?...Yeah so, um, give us a couple guys we can use this year in positions you're deep at, you can have Saad since his agent is an idjiit"
Columbus: "DEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !"
Agent: "Um, what just happened here?""
Saad: "But, but, I wanted to stay in Chicago"
Bowman: "And we wanted you to. Good luck. Thank your agent"
Agent: "Um..."
Saad: "So now what?"
Agent: "Well, Columbus will pay up. They'll have to"
Columbus: "4 for $20"
Agent: "Huh, that's it?"
Saad: "But you said I was worth more"
Columbus: "Well, your agent screwed you"
Saad: "I would have stayed in Chicago for that"
Agent: ".........."
Saad: "Well..."
Agent: "Well what happened was, I bluffed. Stan called. You lose"
Columbus: "Sign here. Initial here."
Agent: "I thought Stan was bluffing. I guess he was serious. Now we lost our leverage with Columbus in the trade, sign it kid"
Saad: [while signing] "You're fired"
Bowman: "Yo Arty, 5 for $22. Here's the check. Oops, gotta erase Saad's name first"
Saad: "F'n Columbus....wtf"
Lul Wut??? haha
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Old 07-05-2015, 02:58 PM   #1093
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As someone new to the sport I have a question.

When someone is referred to as a top 6 forward does that mean they are good enough to play on the top two lines or does it mean something else?
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Old 07-05-2015, 03:07 PM   #1094
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As someone new to the sport I have a question.

When someone is referred to as a top 6 forward does that mean they are good enough to play on the top two lines or does it mean something else?
That is exactly what it means. Most of the time it also means that they could play on the top two lines for almost any team.
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Old 07-11-2015, 01:45 AM   #1095
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And now Patrick Sharp is gone from Chicago.

With Chicago getting Daley back, that probably means that Brett Seabrook's days in Chicago are numbered. He'll be a UFA at the end of next season, and with the cap issues they already have I doubt they can afford to resign him
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Old 07-11-2015, 04:30 PM   #1096
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And now Patrick Sharp is gone from Chicago.

With Chicago getting Daley back, that probably means that Brett Seabrook's days in Chicago are numbered. He'll be a UFA at the end of next season, and with the cap issues they already have I doubt they can afford to resign him
I seem to remember some people in this thread predicting this...
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Old 07-11-2015, 04:43 PM   #1097
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And now Patrick Sharp is gone from Chicago.

With Chicago getting Daley back, that probably means that Brett Seabrook's days in Chicago are numbered. He'll be a UFA at the end of next season, and with the cap issues they already have I doubt they can afford to resign him
Sharp is gone? Holy Christ. Where'd he end up?
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Old 07-11-2015, 06:21 PM   #1098
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Sharp is gone? Holy Christ. Where'd he end up?
Dallas.

Not shocked he is gone...shocked by the team a little.

I think Chicago might have one more deal coming down the pipeline. They don't need to make one to be fine on the cap this year. I'm more looking 2-3 years down the road. If they can clear a little more now they should be fine then and be uber competitive again.

That isn't to say they won't be competitive this year. They should still be a tough team.
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Old 07-11-2015, 06:28 PM   #1099
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Dallas.

Not shocked he is gone...shocked by the team a little.

I think Chicago might have one more deal coming down the pipeline. They don't need to make one to be fine on the cap this year. I'm more looking 2-3 years down the road. If they can clear a little more now they should be fine then and be uber competitive again.

That isn't to say they won't be competitive this year. They should still be a tough team.
Oh no, they NEED to make at least one more significant move.

Right now they have $500,000 left.

They still need to sign Marcus Kruger, Joakim Nordstrom, and one more D man. Then, you also have to factor in a little bit of extra space for injuries and call ups.

They are still very much in a pickle. The good news for them is next year shouldn't be as bad. Their biggest issue next year will be Seabrook.
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Old 07-11-2015, 06:52 PM   #1100
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Oh no, they NEED to make at least one more significant move.

Right now they have $500,000 left.

They still need to sign Marcus Kruger, Joakim Nordstrom, and one more D man. Then, you also have to factor in a little bit of extra space for injuries and call ups.

They are still very much in a pickle. The good news for them is next year shouldn't be as bad. Their biggest issue next year will be Seabrook.
Hmmm...they may move Seabrook now then. A lot of teams wouldn't mind picking up a big contract that comes off the books next year. Especially not a player his quality.
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Old 07-11-2015, 07:05 PM   #1101
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Here's the site I get all my numbers from in case anyone is curious.

Cap Friendly

With all the moves Chicago has made, and the ones they still have to make I'm surprised they let it get this bad. But, they put all their chips on the table and won, so their fan base should be somewhat happy.
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Old 07-11-2015, 08:02 PM   #1102
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Originally Posted by Wildmn34 View Post
Here's the site I get all my numbers from in case anyone is curious.

Cap Friendly
That site is, well, off. Trevor van Riemsdyk is missing. He signed for 2/$1.65. Shows cap room of $531k. I've seen in multiple places it closer to $980k.

try this one http://www.generalfanager.com/teams/chicago-blackhawks

No one should be surprised by the Sharp trade. We've been hearing about it since October. The surprise is shipping Johns away with him. He was supposed to be the choice of the rookies to be a starter.

Bickell is out one way or another. That's $4 million to sign Kruger and take a return player for Bickell. Someone just signed John Scott, Arizona maybe. If a GM is that dumb, someone will take Bickell. Versteeg is also probably out to keep Kruger and make room for Seabrook next year.
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Old 07-11-2015, 08:13 PM   #1103
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That site is, well, off. Trevor van Riemsdyk is missing. He signed for 2/$1.65. Shows cap room of $531k. I've seen in multiple places it closer to $980k.

try this one http://www.generalfanager.com/teams/chicago-blackhawks

No one should be surprised by the Sharp trade. We've been hearing about it since October. The surprise is shipping Johns away with him. He was supposed to be the choice of the rookies to be a starter.

Bickell is out one way or another. That's $4 million to sign Kruger and take a return player for Bickell. Someone just signed John Scott, Arizona maybe. If a GM is that dumb, someone will take Bickell. Versteeg is also probably out to keep Kruger and make room for Seabrook next year.
The site I listed does have TVR's contract, but since it's a 2-way deal he's at the bottom of the page because he is assigned (as of right now) to the minors.
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Old 07-13-2015, 12:16 AM   #1104
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Dallas.

Not shocked he is gone...shocked by the team a little.

I think Chicago might have one more deal coming down the pipeline. They don't need to make one to be fine on the cap this year. I'm more looking 2-3 years down the road. If they can clear a little more now they should be fine then and be uber competitive again.

That isn't to say they won't be competitive this year. They should still be a tough team.
I'm not sure where I would've seen him ending up but Dallas was not it.
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