Parkerktm Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 That's probably true, but you were suggesting that he's doing all of the work, which is not how it's been recently. Kobe is without a doubt the best player they have, but he is not the only person on the team who can take credit for their success in the playoffs. agree completely, maybe i worded it wrong. But like stallion said, without Kobe the lakers probably wouldn't even break .500 winning percentage, even with shaq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerpetualHeaven Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 agree completely, maybe i worded it wrong. But like stallion said, without Kobe the lakers probably wouldn't even break .500 winning percentage, even with shaq Yeah, but also look at last year. Where was Kobe at then? Basketball is a team sport. You can't give all the credit to one guy. Jordan didn't win 6 rings by himself. His team was chalk full of great defenders and awesome role players. Their statistics weren't phenomenal but they complimented Jordan so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honkymagoo Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 Not only was Jordan the greatest player of all time, he had some fucking class. I used to watch the NBA back when Jordan was around because the league wasn't such a shitstorm. The NBA today is just as bad as commercial rap music. Hell, it's the same people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyWingo Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 MJ is way better than Kobe ever will be. MJ made everyone around him a better player just by being on the court. Kobe has no faith or trust in his team mates as he never passes the ball to them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facial La Fleur Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 I'm 30 years old so I have seen a lot of good players come and go over the years. I remember playing Lakers Vs Celtics on my Sega Genesis and I always loved the Bulls but once Jordan and Pippen were no longer on the team I started liking the Rockets because Olajuwon was fantastic. I don't watch too much of the current seasons cuz I just don't have time but I do see these guys coming up to greatness and one day they might take over the top of the list but as for now here are my 10 favorite players of all time... 1. Michael Jordan 2. Scottie Pippen 3. Hakeem Olajuwon 4. Magic Johnson 5. Larry Bird 6. Kobe Bryant 7. David Robinson 8. Karl Malone 9. Lebron James 10. SHAQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italianstallion Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 "Well, if you really don't understand the game of basketball, you would say Kobe is better." Sorry, i guess i watch too much figure skating. I think kobe is just as good. You can provide all the stats you want. Kobe has accomplished a lot of stuff Jordan hasnt and kobe is only 29. Bryon russle= greatest defender EVER. Ak47 is a crappy defender. 6'9 long ass arms, no wonder kobe made him look like a chump. All this hand check shit doesnt matter one bit, kobe would still murder in any era. If over time the defense got softer, why didnt jordans scoring average go up? Your teling me in the mid 90's defense was tough? There were better defenders? Give me a break. Kobe has the complete package and so did MJ. They are easy to compare to one another because they are very similar. When they get mad, they both would perform like crazy beasts. MJ is known for his clutch performances and Kobe is exactly the same way. Tell me one weakness in kobes game? Tell me why lebron and D-wade want to play defense like kobe? If kobe doesnt match Jordans championships, ill buy you a steak dinner. clutchness [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgSmpCAq4-4&feature=related]YouTube - Kobe Bryant Buzzer Beater Double Overtime vs Portland[/ame] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVapB6CozvE&feature=related]YouTube - Kobe 4th Quarter buzzer beater vs Portland[/ame] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krueger Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 I think Kobe is best scorer ever honestly there is not defense for him even if you put a hand in his face he makes the shot. He plays some the best defense also he is one of the most underrated defensive player in the league. Jordan was also a great defender and was a great scorer but i think Kobe is better scorer. This is way to hard to call for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eli1277 Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 I watched Jordan when he played and am now watching Kobe. IMO, Jordan is the best basketball player ever to play the game. Kobe is the best player playing the game right now. As for era's, the game is alot different now than it was then. I think it is harder now than it was then and because of that Kobe could potentially become the greatest ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega Deez Posted May 20, 2008 Author Share Posted May 20, 2008 agree completely, maybe i worded it wrong. But like stallion said, without Kobe the lakers probably wouldn't even break .500 winning percentage, even with shaq That can be said about any .500+ team really. Take away the Superstar from any team with an above .500 record and how many of them would still be around .500? Maybe 2 or 3, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega Deez Posted May 20, 2008 Author Share Posted May 20, 2008 (edited) I think Kobe is best scorer ever honestly there is not defense for him even if you put a hand in his face he makes the shot. I think Wilt Chamberlain is the best scorer ever. Tied for 1st all time with MJ at 30.1 ppg career avg. 37.6 his rookie year Holds the record for most ppg in a season with 50.4 100 points in 1 game 31,419 career points with a 54% from the field avg. 44.8 ppg in a season is crazy 2. He only played 13 seasons as well. Stats can be deceiving though. I think Kobe's better than A.I. & Lebron but.... Allen Iverson's played less games and still has more career points than Kobe. Kobe's 11th all time in ppg (25.0), A.I. is 3rd (27.7). Even Lebron's ahead of Kobe in 5th place (27.3). Before anyone argues A.I. had to score all those points because he had a shit team think about this. A.I. took that team to the finals, the same with Lebron. Those teams couldn't have been that bad. The Shaq-less Kobe still hasn't been there, yet. It's not a given that he will this year either. The Spurs don't have all those rings for no reason. I do want & think the Lakers will make it this year though. Just not betting on it. P.S. GO PISTONS! Edited May 20, 2008 by Omega Deez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerpetualHeaven Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 "Well, if you really don't understand the game of basketball, you would say Kobe is better." Sorry, i guess i watch too much figure skating. I think kobe is just as good. You can provide all the stats you want. Kobe has accomplished a lot of stuff Jordan hasnt and kobe is only 29. Bryon russle= greatest defender EVER. Ak47 is a crappy defender. 6'9 long ass arms, no wonder kobe made him look like a chump. All this hand check shit doesnt matter one bit, kobe would still murder in any era. If over time the defense got softer, why didnt jordans scoring average go up? Your teling me in the mid 90's defense was tough? There were better defenders? Give me a break. Kobe has the complete package and so did MJ. They are easy to compare to one another because they are very similar. When they get mad, they both would perform like crazy beasts. MJ is known for his clutch performances and Kobe is exactly the same way. Tell me one weakness in kobes game? Tell me why lebron and D-wade want to play defense like kobe? If kobe doesnt match Jordans championships, ill buy you a steak dinner. clutchness Hand checking doesn't mean anything? Well, if that's what you think, but I've been hand checked and non hand checked and it makes the world of a difference. Kind of hard for AK47 to do anything when he's how much slower then Kobe? Sure he's 6'9 and has long arms, but what does that mean when he lacks the necessary agility to guard someone like Kobe? I'm not hating on Kobe or today's defenders. He's burned guys Artest and Bowen who are widely considered the best one on one defenders in the league. But, it's much much easier when you don't have a gigantic arm digging into your back or keeping you on the perimeter. I didn't say Kobe had weaknesses in his game but if you compare him to Jordan, his jumper isn't half as good. Again I refer to all-time career field goal percentage. Before Jordan's two shoddy seasons with the Wizards, he was above 50%. I must make note of a season where Jordan shot almsot 2,000 shots in a season and was 53.5% from the field. That was his 87-88 season by the way. Kobe has never shot over 46% in his career. Jordan has shot over that 10 times. Again, I refer to 8 30PPG seasons by Jordan whereas Kobe has had 3. Jordan did that in 15 seasons and Kobe has done 3 in 12. And if Kobe was so flipping fantastic, how come he hasn't won a single NBA Finals MVP yet Jordan has won all 6? Oh wait, Shaq won all three. Speaking of defense, Kobe is at an all-time 1.5SPG whereas Jordan is at 2.35. When Jordan was out of his prime and old, he had 1.42 in the 01-02 season and 1.5 in the 02-03 season. 1.5 when he was how old yet Kobe averages that career. How about passing wise? People said Kobe can't pass yet I haven't seen him step up his game. Jordan on the other hand averaged 8APG while scoring 32.5PPG in the 88-89 season. When push comes to shove, Jordan accomplished everything he did in 15 seasons while 2 of those were just dinky seasons. So, technically in 13 seasons Jordan accomplished 6 rings, 5 league MVP, 9 all defensive first teams, defensive player of the year, and 6 NBA Finals MVP. Everyone talks about Kobe's 81 point game like he's the most amazing scorer to have ever graced the earth. How many scoring titles does he even have? I think.. uh one! How many does Jordan have? 10! Now that's scoring dominance. Kobe is absolutely fantastic. I will never doubt that in my mind. He is the best player to play during his time but he is nothing compared to Jordan. No other player ever will be. Jordan has left a legacy so dominant, nothing Kobe will ever do will matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italianstallion Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 See stats dont mean shit. Look at A.I., according to Perps logic A.I. is greater than kobe. AI didnt have anybody to throw the damn ball to which allowed him to go bananas. Same with jordan, his first three to four years in the league he was able to go ape shit. Kobe had the the past two seasons on his own which he won scoring titles (not this year, previous two years) Kobe hasnt always been as good as Jordan, he has matured and worked on his game. 29 year old kobe vs 29 year old jordan, its a wash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega Deez Posted May 21, 2008 Author Share Posted May 21, 2008 (edited) Hand checking doesn't mean anything? When it comes to Kobe. I don't think it would stop him from scoring. He'd still score, He'd just have to work alot harder. IMO It is a known fact Jordan played in the best defensive era in NBA history. For him to still do what he did offensively is pretty impressive. Edited May 21, 2008 by Omega Deez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italianstallion Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 (edited) I just watched jordan 49 point game in 1988 vs the knicks. The defense was garbage, not even a hand in his face on jumpers. "Everyone talks about Kobe's 81 point game like he's the most amazing scorer to have ever graced the earth. How many scoring titles does he even have?" Its not just 81 point game that kobe accomplished. Heres some other huge scoring sprees. 4 striaight games with 50+ points. 65, 50, 60, 50. 12 three pointers made in one game(9 in a row) Against the mavs he scored 62 points in only three quarters. He sat out the entire 4th quarter, by the end of the 3rd quarter kobe out scored the entire mavs team 62 to 61. The only player to do that in the 24 shot clock era. He he 30 points in the 3rd quarter alone. Those kind of stats are not luck. The guy is a flat out beast. The tourch was passed to kobe when he faced Jordan the final time. Kobe scored 42 points in the first half for a total of 55. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-2Hd-Ly2CQ]YouTube - Kobe Bryant 42 points at half vs Jordan (55 total) 2002-03[/ame] Edited May 21, 2008 by italianstallion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick G 42390 Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 I'd still have to go with Jordan. Jordan and the Bulls dominated the 90's. Micheal is easily one of the top 3 players of all time if not the greatest of all time. Kobe is a phenomenal player and the best right now. I think in a few years Kobe could be and Jordan's level but I would still never call him better. Also, Kobe might not even be the best player in the league soon. LeBron is no joke. I think in 2-3 years LeBron will be the number one player and he'll be on a very good team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mothershed_52 Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Two different types of game. Two different decades. Jordan - 90's Kobe - 00's Then it will be left to the King. LeBron - 10's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italianstallion Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Lebron was better than kobe out of the gate. Granted kobe didnt get to have his own team. Lebron has to work hard and develope the drive and killer mentality jordan and kobe have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerpetualHeaven Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 (edited) See stats dont mean shit. Look at A.I., according to Perps logic A.I. is greater than kobe. AI didnt have anybody to throw the damn ball to which allowed him to go bananas. Same with jordan, his first three to four years in the league he was able to go ape shit. Kobe had the the past two seasons on his own which he won scoring titles (not this year, previous two years) Kobe hasnt always been as good as Jordan, he has matured and worked on his game. 29 year old kobe vs 29 year old jordan, its a wash. Allen Iverson was widely regarded as the best player for a very long time! And he still is one of the best players in the league. He doesn't put the same stats up as he did in Philly. There's also Tracy McGrady and he was regarded as the best player in the NBA for a while before he started having back spasms. Even now, you probably have more people thinking Lebron James is much better than Kobe. And wow, Kobe has 2 scoring titles? Jordan had 10! He had nobody all 10 seasons? Statistics don't always mean something, but in the grand scheme of things, they mean a lot. You have your own opinion and I have mine, but quite frankly, I've watched all the old Bull games and Jordan dominated the game like no one else. People will eventually realize that there will never be another Jordan and everyone they want to be like him, won't be him. People always want the next Babe Ruth, Hank Aarons, Wayne Gretzky, Magic Johnson, etc when people don't realize that doesn't grace the earth very often. You can boast about how amazing you think Kobe is but when it comes down to it, Jordan has the hardware, the stats, and the greatest plays in NBA history. If you think most memorable Laker post-season plays in recent years, what do people think? Derek Fisher vs the Spurs. Robert Horry vs the Spurs. Those two plays were by far the best in the championship runs for the Lakers. You think Bulls, and it's always Jordan. He took the game into his hands all the time. When Jordan played, everyone was just that much better. Kobe doesn't have that same presence. We can go back and forth all you want, but look at Kobe and look at Jordan. I don't have to explain it anymore. If you're too blind to see it and think some modern day scoring phenom is better, you need to watch more Jordan basketball. You never think AI, McGrady, Lebron, or any other scoring phenom's were compared to Jordan? Kobe is the only one who came closest? Come on. It happens all the time. Fact is, there will never be another Jordan. Ever. You're just another beloved Kobe fan who thinks he's equal to Jordan. I've seen a trillion people like you. Kobe is my favourite player and even I recognize he's not. And oh wow, Kobe torched 40 year old Jordan? Wow! Oh my god! Let's make fun of Karl Malone too when he played for the Lakers when he was clearly how old? -.- This discussion is obviously going no where because you're just so in love with Kobe. I'm sure if McGrady never had the back problems, there would be a McGrady vs Kobe talk because McGrady was just as dominant as Bryant. Edited May 22, 2008 by PerpetualHeaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italianstallion Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 (edited) "Allen Iverson was widely regarded as the best player for a very long time" When? When shaq was winning championships? I think shaq was the best player in his prime. Iverson was considered the best scorer for a couple of seasons. But still, he never put up the kind of games kobe had.... "You think Bulls, and it's always Jordan. He took the game into his hands all the time." Every single post season win this year kobe took over. "You never think AI, McGrady, Lebron, or any other scoring phenom's were compared to Jordan? Kobe is the only one who came closest? Come on." Right now they dont come close to kobe. Kobe has the IT factor Jordan had. "And oh wow, Kobe torched 40 year old Jordan? Wow! Oh my god!" Did i say, heres kobe owning jordan? Of course he would own a 40 year old jordan. Just a video of Kobe going off for 42 in a half, thats all. "I'm sure if McGrady never had the back problems, there would be a McGrady vs Kobe talk because McGrady was just as dominant as Bryant." If he ever gets out of the first round I might talk about Mcgrady. Kobe will never be considered greater than jordan. Kobe will never have the global impact jordan had. As a basketball player I feel RIGHT NOW he is just as good. Edited May 22, 2008 by italianstallion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop24 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 It doesn't really matter, people are gonna have their own opinions and think differently. But it doesn't matter, neither one of them are the best player ever. The best player ever is Wilt Chamberlain. Nobody will ever be better than Wilt, at least not imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega Deez Posted May 22, 2008 Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 (edited) It doesn't really matter, people are gonna have their own opinions and think differently. But it doesn't matter, neither one of them are the best player ever. The best player ever is Wilt Chamberlain. Nobody will ever be better than Wilt, at least not imo. Wilt the Stilt! If his claim of scoring with 10,000 + women is true, I'd say that makes him the best player in that game as well lol. Edited May 23, 2008 by Omega Deez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeyes102 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 (edited) I disagree with that and feel people have their own opinions. I think Jordan was a better basketball player than Kobe is today. Edited June 2, 2008 by Buckeyes102 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n1n3t33nd3lta Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Kobe will never, I repeat, NEVER, be better than Jordan. End of story. And I agree with BBall/FBall, opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one and they usually stink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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