Blueprotoss Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) The problem with lag is either YOU have a shit connection (1 or 2 bars) or the host does. It's usually the host.Agreed. Yes, but without a drop-in/drop-out matchmaking system, lag wouldn't permeate every level of the online environment as often as it does in Black Ops. I'm not really concerned with the lag in general when regarding online games, but rather the amount of disruptions & host migrations a player has to endure during their many hours of online play. I'm sure every person in this forum can attest to the plentiful situations of having your reticule focused on an enemy only to be thrown into the black screen of lag and/or host migration due to the sheer turnover of players leaving & joining the game. I think we established this already. Thank you for being redundant. So it doesn't happen because of incompatible NAT or host complications? Download or upload speeds have no bearing on those, yet those are the main reasons games end prematurely. It seems you're the one who doesn't play much of CoD, unsurprisingly. How is it an opinion? Everyone here will agree that games often end prematurely because the game selected an unsuitable host that one or more players couldn't connect to. It's not the player's fault; it's the games'. Or more specifically, the drop-in/drop-out aspect of matchmaking-- something I addressed in previous replies. So again, I ask.. [b]do you disagree to the idea that drop-in/drop-out matchmaking increases [/b] [b]complications during multiplayer matches?[/b]If you decide to ignore or fabricate some generic cop-out excuse to not answer the question, I'll presume that you believe drop-in/drop-out matchmaking has nothing to do whatsoever with increased host migrations or general lag spikes in BlackOps multiplayer.The Lag is caused by the different connections of people in the Lobby with your Download and Upload speeds. If the cause was "Join session in Progress" then every Online Shooter would have the same issues with Lag. Again this issue with major Lag in Black Ops happens to the majority and you forget that Black Ops is currently the most played game on the 360. It sounded like didn't know what you were talking because you were acting like Black Ops is the only ONline Shooter to have Lag. The Download and Upload speeds do matter especially with what type of Internet, which I barely have any issues with Verizion FIOS. You do know that blaming the game instead of the Host in an Opinion while blaming the Host instead of the game is a Fact. No it doesn't and how could you explain Halo having Lag since it doesn't have a "Join session in Progress" system. The one thats making a poor excuse is you. if there wasnt any join in progress function in matchmaking, we wouldnt be having so many of these host migrations ending games early. every time my team gets a considerable lead on the other team ((or vice versa)), people on the opposing team often quit out. it results in new players joining the match, see that there losing by a huge margin, then quit out AGAIN! all this joining and quitting will most definitely screw the game up when it comes to the incompatibility of peoples NATS and router setups. the model of drop-in and drop-out matchmaking contributes greatly to the amount of disconnects and failed host miigrations in this game. thinking otherwise is plain bogus.If there wasn't join in progress function then you would still have Lag isssues and host migrations would still happen. That happens in a lot of Online games like Starcraft 2, Halo 3, BC2, Madden, NFS, AC: Brotherhood, and Street Figher 4. You did forget about playing with people from different Countries, Continents, and States while that causes a lot of Lag. People only quit because they know a new player will replace them within 30 seconds; there's almost no guilt or obligation tied to committing to the entire game from the start. Now, if there were dedicated servers, the draw-backs of drop-in/drop-out matchmaking would be severely cut back, and players generally wouldn't have to deal with the absurd amount of disruptions when it came to online play. That's pretty much the only scenario in which Join In Progress matchmaking could thrive when considering constant host-migrations and lag spikes. And also, if players "always quit" when the other team gets a lead, then there must be a serious problem with the game. If the game is so unenjoyable that you can't even muster several minutes to finish the match and instead choose to bail the game, that speaks volumes on the quality of the online multiplayer, (excluding extraneous circumstances).People don't do that while they usually quit because of a bad K/D ratio for that match, losing a match badly, or don't want to join a losing team. Dedicated Servers just add some Lag and security protection other then that they're basic servers. Its that people dont want to lose, which thats happens in a lot of Online games. Everyone wants to win but while there's a group of people that only have enjoyment from Winning other then playing the game. Edited August 17, 2011 by Blueprotoss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraderic Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) The Lag is caused by the different connections of people in the Lobby with your Download and Upload speeds. And you still choose to neglect NAT complications and router incompatibilities; a major player in failed host migrations. If the cause was "Join session in Progress" then every Online Shooter would have the same issues with Lag. Battlefield Bad Company 2. They don't have "the same issues with Lag", partly because their matchmaking system is more refined & aided with dedicated servers. It sounded like didn't know what you were talking because you were acting like Black Ops is the only ONline Shooter to have Lag. Where in my previous responses did I claim that Black Ops was the only online FPS to have lag? IIRC, I simply said that compared to other online shooters, their lag is most noticeable. You do know that blaming the game instead of the Host in an Opinion while blaming the Host instead of the game is a Fact. .. "blaming the host instead of the game is a Fact"? Last I checked, it was a verb. No it doesn't and how could you explain Halo having Lag since it doesn't have a "Join session in Progress" system. The one thats making a poor excuse is you. I don't believe I've ever been sent back to the pre-game lobby in a Halo match due to a failed host migration. Black Ops, though.. oh, many times. And I don't recall saying other games such as Halo don't have lag; that's you making assumptions. If there wasn't join in progress function then you would still have Lag isssues and host migrations would still happen. That happens in a lot of Online games like Starcraft 2, Halo 3, BC2, Madden, NFS, AC: Brotherhood, and Street Figher 4. You did forget about playing with people from different Countries, Continents, and States while that causes a lot of Lag. Where did I say that lag issues & host migrations wouldn't exist without drop-in/drop-out matchmaking? If you read my responses, you would know that I said they happen far less often instead of not at all. Without drop-in/drop-out matchmaking, a failed host migration can exist only between the initial 18 players; not very chancy. Throw in the join-in-session aspect, and you can have several dozens or new players hopping into a lengthy game, increasing the chance of lag spikes & failed host migrations due to NAT problems. Result? A premature end for a long game. Shame. Though seeing as you haven't addressed NAT problems what-so-ever, I'm beginning to wonder if you even know what NAT is.. Dedicated Servers just add some Lag http://abuguet.net/tiradero/HA_HA_HA_OH_WOW.jpg Now that we've got the laughter out of the way, let's make some summary points; hopefully you'll be less confused in your next post regarding what I've said or haven't said: *every online FPS has varying degrees of lag, some lessened with dedicated severs, some not. *every FPS shooter runs the risk of suffering host migrations or increased lag; though Black Ops carries a higher potential of doing so because.. (read below) *failed host migrations run rampant through Black Ops due to the sheer turnover of new players flooding into the match (as a result of the drop-in/drop-out matchmaking). Edited August 17, 2011 by Kraderic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueprotoss Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 And you still choose to neglect NAT complications and router incompatibilities; a major player in failed host migrations. Battlefield Bad Company 2. They don't have "the same issues with Lag", partly because their matchmaking system is more refined & aided with dedicated servers. Where in my previous responses did I claim that Black Ops was the only online FPS to have lag? IIRC, I simply said that compared to other online shooters, their lag is most noticeable. .. "blaming the host instead of the game is a Fact"? Last I checked, it was a verb. I don't believe I've ever been sent back to the pre-game lobby in a Halo match due to a failed host migration. Black Ops, though.. oh, many times. And I don't recall saying other games such as Halo don't have lag; that's you making assumptions. Where did I say that lag issues & host migrations wouldn't exist without drop-in/drop-out matchmaking? If you read my responses, you would know that I said they happen far less often instead of not at all. Without drop-in/drop-out matchmaking, a failed host migration can exist only between the initial 18 players; not very chancy. Throw in the join-in-session aspect, and you can have several dozens or new players hopping into a lengthy game, increasing the chance of lag spikes & failed host migrations due to NAT problems. Result? A premature end for a long game. Shame. Though seeing as you haven't addressed NAT problems what-so-ever, I'm beginning to wonder if you even know what NAT is.. Now that we've got the laughter out of the way, let's make some summary points; hopefully you'll be less confused in your next post regarding what I've said or haven't said: *every online FPS has varying degrees of lag, some lessened with dedicated severs, some not. *every FPS shooter runs the risk of suffering host migrations or increased lag; though Black Ops carries a higher potential of doing so because.. (read below) *failed host migrations run rampant through Black Ops due to the sheer turnover of new players flooding into the match (as a result of the drop-in/drop-out matchmaking).NAT type isn't that much of an issue because its still based around your Download/Upload speed and the ability to connect others especially when people are on different continents. The BC2 servers are actually bad because of EA while they're still better then Epic servers. You didn't say that but you did imply that. I guess you don't undestand that the host causes a good amount of the Lag and its sad that you need to try being a Grammar Nazi. Again you didn't say that but you did imply that. I have and others while it shows that it doesn't happen to you then it doesn't exist. It happens enough to cause problems, which mean you shouldn't moan about "Join Session" then praise the other because you don't have problems wih one. Again the NAT type isn't that much of an issue because its still based around your Download/Upload speed and the ability to connect others especially when people are on different continents. Dedicated Servers just add some Lag and security protection other then that they're basic servers.I guess you missed the whole thing about adding some lag and security protection that I said, but you did just laugh at your own stupidity though. There is degrees of Lag while its based on the people playing it and DS only add a small amount of protection. So you're only assuming that Black Ops has more Lag because of "Join Session" while you should Black Ops on different Internet connections since I have. Don't you think its "rampant" because some people can't connect to others or have crappy Internet like DSL. You should really test it out instead of assuming that it happens because you read or heard it somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HareJordan23 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 The campaign should specify which difficulty you have completed each level on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MxPx Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 People only quit because they know a new player will replace them within 30 seconds; there's almost no guilt or obligation tied to committing to the entire game from the start. Now, if there were dedicated servers, the draw-backs of drop-in/drop-out matchmaking would be severely cut back, and players generally wouldn't have to deal with the absurd amount of disruptions when it came to online play. That's pretty much the only scenario in which Join In Progress matchmaking could thrive when considering constant host-migrations and lag spikes. And also, if players "always quit" when the other team gets a lead, then there must be a serious problem with the game. If the game is so unenjoyable that you can't even muster several minutes to finish the match and instead choose to bail the game, that speaks volumes on the quality of the online multiplayer, (excluding extraneous circumstances). It's not about the other team getting a lead...one team will always have a lead. Its when 2 minutes into the game, the score is 3400 to 200, and the scores for your team look like 2-0 (You) 0-4 0-8 0-6 0-6 0-10 Clearly there's something going on, so why waste your time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnout x360a Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 The campaign should specify which difficulty you have completed each level on. I thought Black Ops already did that? Admittedly been a while since i touched it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraderic Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 It's not about the other team getting a lead...one team will always have a lead. Its when 2 minutes into the game, the score is 3400 to 200, and the scores for your team look like 2-0 (You) 0-4 0-8 0-6 0-6 0-10 Clearly there's something going on, so why waste your time? And that leads us right back to the low-quality multiplayer. We can both attest to the numerous instances of being thrown into a match with a serious disadvantage regarding score; and most likely not enduring a minute of it due to the hopeless chances of turning it around. Once a team starts to get traction and rack up the kills, HUD feeds will soon be flooded with old players quitting & new players joining (which will soon leave shortly there after) instead of who killed such'n'such. It's depressing, frankly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFreakinCabbag3 Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I thought Black Ops already did that? Admittedly been a while since i touched it. If I remember correct people that skipped levels or some levels glitched hence the million my 100g achievement is bugged threads near lauch all they had to do is replay the level but they had to take a pot luck gamble due to no indication of what they'd done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHunter211 Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Tanks were definitely not overpowered. They just required Team work, but This was back when more Call of Duty players knew the meaning of the phrase "team work". Yeah, I found myself playing that all this past week while Black Ops sat on my shelf not even touched once except to pick it up after it fell. I really found team work after one game on Les Ormes where there were people on tanks and driving on the motorcycles and then the ground units. We were 12 people strong and we all were going along that road until we got ambushed by another team of 12 people. our tank got blown up and two of the motorcycles did as well..... The rest of us actually were running backwards and shooting our BAR's, .30 cals and Thompsons as a way to keep them from running after us. That was the best teamwork I had EVER seen from any game online. On both sides. Then we regrouped and kinda decided to split up into groups of 3. ended up winning 100-42. I went 31-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraderic Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 That was the best teamwork I had EVER seen from any game online. oh, if only you played Chromehounds online before SEGA shut down the servers.. best squad cohesion game ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MxPx Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Yeah, I found myself playing that all this past week while Black Ops sat on my shelf not even touched once except to pick it up after it fell. I really found team work after one game on Les Ormes where there were people on tanks and driving on the motorcycles and then the ground units. We were 12 people strong and we all were going along that road until we got ambushed by another team of 12 people. our tank got blown up and two of the motorcycles did as well..... The rest of us actually were running backwards and shooting our BAR's, .30 cals and Thompsons as a way to keep them from running after us. That was the best teamwork I had EVER seen from any game online. On both sides. Then we regrouped and kinda decided to split up into groups of 3. ended up winning 100-42. I went 31-3. Well COD3 was just an epic game...thats all that says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHunter211 Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Well COD3 was just an epic game...thats all that says. And still is in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpinalSynopsis Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I thought the entire POINT for Ghost is so that you actually have to pay attention when you're playing rather than just watching the mini-map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gr3yWolf21 Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I agree that all shooter games should have dedicated servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHunter211 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 And that leads us right back to the low-quality multiplayer. We can both attest to the numerous instances of being thrown into a match with a serious disadvantage regarding score; and most likely not enduring a minute of it due to the hopeless chances of turning it around. Once a team starts to get traction and rack up the kills, HUD feeds will soon be flooded with old players quitting & new players joining (which will soon leave shortly there after) instead of who killed such'n'such. It's depressing, frankly. Not only that. You'll be a decent prestige and on your team you'll see 15th prestige (you) non prestige level 14 non prestige level 27 1st prestige level 10 2nd prestige level 23 non prestige level 2 and on the other team you'll see 15th 50 15th 50 14th 50 14th 50 15th 50 11th 37 Just an example of something that happened to me, except I'm 8th prestige. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MxPx Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Not only that. You'll be a decent prestige and on your team you'll see 15th prestige (you) non prestige level 14 non prestige level 27 1st prestige level 10 2nd prestige level 23 non prestige level 2 and on the other team you'll see 15th 50 15th 50 14th 50 14th 50 15th 50 11th 37 Just an example of something that happened to me, except I'm 8th prestige. That is an indication that the other team is partied up. You never want to play against a group that is partied up, unless you yourself are partied up with your own group. That used to piss me off too, then I realized I kept playing the same exact team every round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChubbyDaKlown Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 take out flak jacket an maybe ill think of going back to that game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty2010 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 The community is what fucks up MP on CoD games but the #1 thing the game needs is dedicated servers, I really doubt you guys in the US understand how bad it can be when you can't find locale games, especially S&D at times, only to be thrown in to a US game with shitty connection. Stats need to be removed or made private. K/D and W/L whores really have taken fucking up a CoD game to new levels. People rage quit in MW2 because they were sick of air support within the first 3 minutes staying there all game, people rage quit in BO because they have a K/D of 0.80 or their W/L streak is coming to an end, it's bullshit. There's nothing wrong with Ghost but IMO nothing in perk slot 1 really offers you a choice. The noob tubing is generally non existant so FJ is only really a Nuketown perk, you can pick up guns so scavenger is not always seen as the great option (I love it btw) Lightweight is a rush class and people generally get that extra kill hardline offers. To balance out Ghost I think Sleight of hand should have been in perk slot 1 and lightweight should have been in perk slot 2. I think most people would still take SOH over Ghost, FJ, Hardline or Scavenger and that would cut down CoD whinging by 90%. Nothing wrong with Ghost, it's not OP it's just overused with nothing balancing it out. In CoD4 you had to decide between Juggernaut, Stopping Power and I think SOH? In MW2 the choice was made for you, ditto BO. Knifing should just not be possible whilever you have red on your screen and I'd love to see your movements slowed down severely the more damage you take, maybe that'd be bad and wouldn't offer recovery but please the invincible knifing needs fixing Killstreaks need to be scaled back. There should be no killstreak where you as the player are taken away from the game to control a gunship or AC130 imo. In the future maybe there could be a playlist added where you can get these things but the CoD gameplay really went downhill with these additions. Not only that. You'll be a decent prestige and on your team you'll see 15th prestige (you) non prestige level 14 non prestige level 27 1st prestige level 10 2nd prestige level 23 non prestige level 2 and on the other team you'll see 15th 50 15th 50 14th 50 14th 50 15th 50 11th 37 Just an example of something that happened to me, except I'm 8th prestige. Some of the worst players I have ever come across in CoD games are high level prestige. Prestige is nothing more than an indicator of how long you have played the game for. Also, how do you know those people aren't partied up? Happens all the time and the only way to enjoy the game is 3+ people together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHunter211 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 The community is what fucks up MP on CoD games but the #1 thing the game needs is dedicated servers, I really doubt you guys in the US understand how bad it can be when you can't find locale games, especially S&D at times, only to be thrown in to a US game with shitty connection. Stats need to be removed or made private. K/D and W/L whores really have taken fucking up a CoD game to new levels. People rage quit in MW2 because they were sick of air support within the first 3 minutes staying there all game, people rage quit in BO because they have a K/D of 0.80 or their W/L streak is coming to an end, it's bullshit. There's nothing wrong with Ghost but IMO nothing in perk slot 1 really offers you a choice. The noob tubing is generally non existant so FJ is only really a Nuketown perk, you can pick up guns so scavenger is not always seen as the great option (I love it btw) Lightweight is a rush class and people generally get that extra kill hardline offers. To balance out Ghost I think Sleight of hand should have been in perk slot 1 and lightweight should have been in perk slot 2. I think most people would still take SOH over Ghost, FJ, Hardline or Scavenger and that would cut down CoD whinging by 90%. Nothing wrong with Ghost, it's not OP it's just overused with nothing balancing it out. In CoD4 you had to decide between Juggernaut, Stopping Power and I think SOH? In MW2 the choice was made for you, ditto BO. Knifing should just not be possible whilever you have red on your screen and I'd love to see your movements slowed down severely the more damage you take, maybe that'd be bad and wouldn't offer recovery but please the invincible knifing needs fixing Killstreaks need to be scaled back. There should be no killstreak where you as the player are taken away from the game to control a gunship or AC130 imo. In the future maybe there could be a playlist added where you can get these things but the CoD gameplay really went downhill with these additions. Some of the worst players I have ever come across in CoD games are high level prestige. Prestige is nothing more than an indicator of how long you have played the game for. Also, how do you know those people aren't partied up? Happens all the time and the only way to enjoy the game is 3+ people together. oh yeah, I know. but after I checked their combat records, their LOWEST was like 1.50. my lowest on my team that I could check was .32 and the highest was .72 or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StayonTarget Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) Nothing in perk slot 1 really offers you a choice. The noob tubing is generally non existant so FJ is only really a Nuketown perk, you can pick up guns so scavenger is not always seen as the great option (I love it btw) Lightweight is a rush class and people generally get that extra kill hardline offers. To balance out Ghost I think Sleight of hand should have been in perk slot 1 and lightweight should have been in perk slot 2. I think most people would still take SOH over Ghost, FJ, Hardline or Scavenger and that would cut down CoD whinging by 90%. Nothing wrong with Ghost, it's not OP it's just overused with nothing balancing it out. In CoD4 you had to decide between Juggernaut, Stopping Power and I think SOH? In MW2 the choice was made for you, ditto BO. I'm just going to talk about this paragraph. If there are going to be perks like Ghost, there needs to be Flak Jacket. You need to balance it out. So what you say is correct. It's not OP. It's overused, and for me that makes it less fun knowing my spy plane only finds 2 people. That's a good point though. The choice is really made for you in BO and MW2. There needs to be a good variety in what is a reasonable perk to use. I thought the entire POINT for Ghost is so that you actually have to pay attention when you're playing rather than just watching the mini-map. Maybe so. But you still shouldn't have EVERY single person using it. Edited August 21, 2011 by StayonTarget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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