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So confused and nervous...


CrimsonBohemian
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I like having a collection of games I can access anytime I want on one system.

 

 

You have that now with the 360 and there has been no mention of taking it from you that I can recall.

 

Even once the new systems are out the 360s live connectivity and patches will still be available. If/ when that eventually stops they may well find a new way to distribute patches. (PC downloads from an archive site & usb install to the 360 for example)

 

 

To expect every new generation to play all games from every gen before it is unreasonable in my opinion. As I've said, even old PC games can be very hard to get working on new systems.. The whole point of consoles is that they just work...

Edited by H2O
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You have that now with the 360 and there has been no mention of taking it from you that I can recall.

 

Even once the new systems are out the 360s live connectivity and patches will still be available. If/ when that eventually stops they may well find a new way to distribute patches. (PC downloads from an archive site & usb install to the 360 for example)

 

 

To expect every new generation to play all games from every gen before it is unreasonable in my opinion. As I've said, even old PC games can be very hard to get working on new systems.. The whole point of consoles is that they just work...

 

Yeah I disagree though :woop:. I think we should begin to push for a better gaming experience, like what is offered through Steam. But I just really like playing on a console instead of a PC. Just because something is difficult doesn't mean it's not worthwhile.

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What's your reasoning for disagreeing with the various points in that post?

 

 

Steam is by no means perfect and from my experience I certainly wouldn't call it a clearly better gaming experience. It will be interesting to see how well the various 'steam boxes' actually work when they come out...

 

 

Edit: As for it still being worthwhile even if it's difficult... difficult costs so are you willing to pay an extra premium for this added feature and if not how many of each generations potential innovations/ advances are they going to have to cut to make the project a viable investment?

Edited by H2O
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according to sony you will be able to play ps3 games in the new pas4 system unlike xbox where you will not be able to play any old games on the newer xbxo system.

 

This isn't entirely true. Certain PS3 games will be available to stream through the Gaikai Cloud service only.. you will not be able to play PS3 Blu disks on PS4.

 

If you ask me Sony's whole approach is seriously flawed and is too ambitious for it's own good. There is no way the quality of streaming games through the cloud is ever going to be up to par to a BD disk or digital download.

 

As bad as the download and installations are on the PS3 I wouldn't believe Sony about anything regarding streaming games. This is coming from a company who's console freezes up constantly when trying to stream videos wirelessly. All I see are bad decisions and things I don't agree with all up and down the board with both the PS3 and PS4.

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If you ask me Sony's whole approach is seriously flawed and is too ambitious for it's own good. There is no way the quality of streaming games through the cloud is ever going to be up to par to a BD disk or digital download.

 

 

Indeed. Even if they somehow get everything running well on their end the internet is just not fast enough for most non city people (at least in the uk) to make it work well.

 

Also, anyone with bandwidth limits or an isp that throttles their connection at peak time is going to love some of the new psn services.. especially the mad suggestion that they want to pre install games they think you might buy. :confused:

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Indeed. Even if they somehow get everything running well on their end the internet is just not fast enough for most non city people (at least in the uk) to make it work well.

 

Also, anyone with bandwidth limits or an isp that throttles their connection at peak time is going to love some of the new psn services.. especially the mad suggestion that they want to pre install games they think you might buy. :confused:

 

Agreed, I mean don't get me wrong, I wish them the best and all but I just don't think the tech is quite there yet.. at least not untill Broadband becomes much more advanced and available in every area and every region. I think we are still a ways away until that happens.

 

Still though, I hear you guys in the UK have a much better connection with PSN than we do out here in the states, or so I hear?

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I stream movies/TV on my PS3 via the WiFi network quite a bit, and have never had it freeze (or even lag) even a single time.

 

It happened all the time with me on all my PS3's.. The Phat and my 2 slims I went through. Not only that, It has had to defragment my HDD a total of 4 times basically destroying all my media and corupting my saves.

 

I don't trust the PS3's software or OS for anything, I just don't.

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Edit: As for it still being worthwhile even if it's difficult... difficult costs so are you willing to pay an extra premium for this added feature and if not how many of each generations potential innovations/ advances are they going to have to cut to make the project a viable investment?

 

To answer your question I would happily spend an extra $200 for the convenience of having this backwards capability feature. I would not take that same $200 though and put it towards rebuying old games I've already previously purchased though. Yes my money is going to the same place, but overall I'm sure there are a lot of people out there where it would be cheaper to have this feature added, as opposed to simply rebuying an entire generations worth of games.

 

I also agree with your point about streaming games from a cloud...I'm not sure how it'll work yet, but if it works with no issues it's obviously good and terrible if it doesn't. It's going to really hurt those people with a bandwidth limit though.

 

This isn't entirely true. Certain PS3 games will be available to stream through the Gaikai Cloud service only.. you will not be able to play PS3 Blu disks on PS4.

 

If you ask me Sony's whole approach is seriously flawed and is too ambitious for it's own good. There is no way the quality of streaming games through the cloud is ever going to be up to par to a BD disk or digital download.

 

As bad as the download and installations are on the PS3 I wouldn't believe Sony about anything regarding streaming games. This is coming from a company who's console freezes up constantly when trying to stream videos wirelessly. All I see are bad decisions and things I don't agree with all up and down the board with both the PS3 and PS4.

 

 

I feel like this is a time where everyone is going to make crazy risky decisions an probably 95% of them will blow up in their face. Hopefully it does and puts the developers back in their place: making accessible, enjoyable games, without all the extra money grabbing approach.

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See this is my point. I care about something, but because I'm expressing it and you may feel apathetic about it, my opinion has been reduced to "bitching and whining". So thank you for your input.

 

Just ignore em, no matter what you say they will come back with some incoherent rant about how you are wrong. Even if you were to agree with them they would switch their stance and try to ream on you that way. No matter how many facts you present they will ignore them and say "yea, but no, but yea, but no, but yea".

 

I totally understand what you are trying to express, sadly in todays modern world the amount of true gamers are few and this new breed of people who play games don't agree that a little fanfare can go a long way.

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To answer your question I would happily spend an extra $200 for the convenience of having this backwards capability feature.

 

Well, now that's a view I can respect. :) I think you'll find though that most are not willing to pay the extra like you.

 

I would not take that same $200 though and put it towards rebuying old games I've already previously purchased though.

 

I would never suggest you do that as that would be mad & wasteful.

 

All you need to do is keep your 360, maybe buy a spare if you really think yours might break, (not needed imo) & keep a backup of dlc/ xbla games on a few flash drives.

 

It's the easiest & best option IMO. I guess that's something we'll never agree on though.

 

Just ignore em, no matter what you say they will come back with some incoherent rant about how you are wrong. Even if you were to agree with them they would switch their stance and try to ream on you that way. No matter how many facts you present they will ignore them and say "yea, but no, but yea, but no, but yea".

 

I totally understand what you are trying to express, sadly in todays modern world the amount of true gamers are few and this new breed of people who play games don't agree that a little fanfare can go a long way.

 

Have you even read this thread? :biglaugh :confused:

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Well, now that's a view I can respect. :) I think you'll find though that most are not willing to pay the extra like you.

 

 

 

I would never suggest you do that as that would be mad & wasteful.

 

All you need to do is keep your 360, maybe buy a spare if you really think yours might break, (not needed imo) & keep a backup of dlc/ xbla games on a few flash drives.

 

Unfortunately that is our only option at the moment. That's why I think there should be like 2 versions of the system: one standard one and and that can do this feature if you're willing to shell out the cash.

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Unfortunately that is our only option at the moment. That's why I think there should be like 2 versions of the system: one standard one and and that can do this feature if you're willing to shell out the cash.

 

I still highly doubt it. It was found after the hubbub over the last generation change that people who actually use backwards compatibility is so small that I don't think they'd make a whole separate SKU just for these people. As people have stated, just keep an extra 360 around. Most likely your only option.

Edited by Fire Hawk D
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I still highly doubt it. It was found after the hubbub over the last generation change that people who actually use backwards compatibility is so small what I don't think they'd make a whole separate SKU just for these people. As people have stated, just keep an extra 360 around. Most likely your only option.

 

 

Agreed but you gotta admit, the only option sucks when we are left with a console that is more likely to crap out than any other brand on the market. And this is exactly why B/C is important to me.. Especially for our digital games.

 

After reading the TOU i can't believe I was this gullable about buying digital content as it's all basically just a rental realistically. I'm already on the verge of quiting gaming for the first time in my life.. especially after seeing this digital only direction the industry is going.

 

I'm finding it more and more difficult to support this digital only future and It's just a matter of time I say no to it all.

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Agreed but you gotta admit, the only option sucks when we are left with a console that is more likely to crap out than any other brand on the market. And this is exactly why B/C is important to me.. Especially for our digital games.

 

Yeah, but how's that different from the Xbox 360 situation now? If you think 360s will suddenly disappear, you're probably mistaken. Look at the PS2. It JUST went out of production finally back in August. Xbox 360s will still be easily found and even cheaper.

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Yeah, but how's that different from the Xbox 360 situation now? If you think 360s will suddenly disappear, you're probably mistaken. Look at the PS2. It JUST went out of production finally back in August. Xbox 360s will still be easily found and even cheaper.

 

PS2 is still available because of Sony's 10 year stance really. In 5 to 10 years, they definitely wont be in production, that's all I'm trying to say here. I almost feel as If I should go out right now and buy another slim just to protect my huge investment. It's kinda sad when you think about it.

 

I definitely want access to all my disk based and digital games indefinitely though and the only things I can do to assure that is to keep the console and back up everything including the updates if possible.

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I definitely want access to all my disk based and digital games indefinitely though and the only things I can do to assure that is to keep the console and back up everything including the updates if possible.

 

Is that because you will play a lot of your 360 games or because you want ownership over them? I ask this because I remember people complaining about B/C with the 360, yet I don't know of any of my friends that went back and played their original xbox games once they started buying 360 games. I don't know exact numbers but I would say the majority of gamers won't care about B/C once the next gen launches, but I do see where you're coming from in terms of ownership, or the illusion of ownership:p

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Is that because you will play a lot of your 360 games or because you want ownership over them? I ask this because I remember people complaining about B/C with the 360, yet I don't know of any of my friends that went back and played their original xbox games once they started buying 360 games. I don't know exact numbers but I would say the majority of gamers won't care about B/C once the next gen launches, but I do see where you're coming from in terms of ownership, or the illusion of ownership:p

 

I hear you DEG, It's actually for both reasons but much more so... I just want to own them forever and make sure they are going to work down the line. This is pretty much my biggest concern.

 

And you're right, after reading the TOU, it appears it is just the illusion of ownership after all! :p

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Am I the only one worried about the next console screwing over real gamers the same as Nintendo did with the Wii? I like things the way they are, and I'm not giving up standard controllers. I don't want fancy, I don't want motion or voice controls. Just a proper controller. Not some garbage remote I have to wave at the fucking screen to pick my character/weapons. The only aspect of motion control type gaming that would actually interest me continues to fail miserably. Gun games! Kind of sad they still can't make anything work better than the old NES Zapper did.

 

I could never bring myself to having a console on when I'm not using it. I also could never put something on top of my consoles. I just have too much of a fear of overheating, also scuff damage, not to mention pressure damage to discs. I really hate when someone says "my 360 scratched my disc" when more than likely they have something on there console that is causing it to make pressure damage.

 

These consoles are built like computers. Powering up and down constantly arguably causes MORE wear than simply leaving it on. The constant heating AND cooling of the solder is what was causing a lot of the problems, making the joints fail, if I remember right. The monitor sitting on mine has a V shaped stand that only puts weight on the front corners and back edge of the console. Like I said, it's been running this way for 2 years.

 

This isn't entirely true. Certain PS3 games will be available to stream through the Gaikai Cloud service only.. you will not be able to play PS3 Blu disks on PS4.

 

If you ask me Sony's whole approach is seriously flawed and is too ambitious for it's own good. There is no way the quality of streaming games through the cloud is ever going to be up to par to a BD disk or digital download.

 

As bad as the download and installations are on the PS3 I wouldn't believe Sony about anything regarding streaming games. This is coming from a company who's console freezes up constantly when trying to stream videos wirelessly. All I see are bad decisions and things I don't agree with all up and down the board with both the PS3 and PS4.

 

Hell, I'm on 3mb DSL because I'm out in Amish country. Even if I want to do that stuff, I'd never be able to. Sony might try it, but hopefully they'll fail bad enough that they'll have to crack and roll out another UPC with proper backward compatibility. Although, I'm not sure that would even work well considering the idiots write the games on the system to be so specific to speeds that even a 7200RPM HDD can break certain ones (or so I've heard). I'll never understand how people like PS3 or Wii for gaming. I won't even use the PS3 controller for the few exclusives I own. I have an adapter to use the PS2 controller on it.

 

To expect every new generation to play all games from every gen before it is unreasonable in my opinion. As I've said, even old PC games can be very hard to get working on new systems.. The whole point of consoles is that they just work...

 

Half of that problem is caused by Winblows itself, not the hardware. I can run the original Halo on a newer gaming rig with Windows XP installed just as easily as it ran on my old Athlon XP with a GeForce 4. Like I said, if console designers would pick a CPU architecture and stick fucking with it, things would be much easier. Why do you think PS2s ran PS1 games so easily? Not a ton of software emulation or extra work because they were both MIPS processors. The PS2s was just a faster one with some extra instructions. A similar MIPS processor was used for N64 too. I know something about this stuff since I used to be a big part of the gameshark community. Gameshark codes were mainly just freezing RAM values, but a few of us went deeper and learned how the games assembly language actually worked. Hell, a friend of mine made Mario walk on water in Mario 64.

Edited by Viper187
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[...]Not some garbage remote I have to wave at the fucking screen to pick my character/weapons.

 

[...]I'll never understand how people like PS3 or Wii for gaming.

 

[...]Half of that problem is caused by Winblows itself, not the hardware.

 

You make some pretty interesting arguments and points, but saying things like "Winblows" and belittling a pretty huge trend in gaming just makes you sound like an angry child and hard to take seriously. It drags your whole post down.

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Half of that problem is caused by Winblows itself, not the hardware. I can run the original Halo on a newer gaming rig with Windows XP installed just as easily as it ran on my old Athlon XP with a GeForce 4.

 

I was actually thinking of older games than halo. Regardless, while Windows does cause some of the problems it doesn't cause all of them. It's a combination of hardware & software just the same as you'd get on a console. Do you want the console OS to be static as well the avoid compatibility issues?

 

Like I said, if console designers would pick a CPU architecture and stick fucking with it, things would be much easier. Why do you think PS2s ran PS1 games so easily?

 

As i said, i don't want potential innovations in future generations limited by the previous gens. Which is what would happen if we lock in an architecture (& OS) long term to ensure backwards compatibility.

 

Each new generation should be the best it can be, not just a last gen copy with a turbo bolted on. :(

Edited by H2O
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