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Old 12-27-2010, 07:53 PM   #1501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerpetualHeaven View Post
Your method is inaccurate because it is banking on the difficulty given by an author, meaning one single individual. TA ratio is based on several people, which gives it better accuracy. You cannot accurately judge how long a game takes and taking it from a road map further increases that inaccuracy.
I see your point and yes, there will be inaccuracies in my system. Thing is, the TA calculation is good for what it does but it isn't accurate in certain situations.

This is how TA calculates ratio:
Root (Total gamers / Total with Achievement)

This looks accurate, but it only works when there are many people who play a specific game. This is why when you go on TA and sort in order of ratio you will get things like the Russion version of BioShock 2 appear on the first page. Yet the other versions of BioShock 2 have a higher ratio. It's sort of like TA is factoring in the popularity of a game, which using that calculation cannot be helped.

I understand that I am taking one persons opinion but you should understand that this system is just beginning. I hope to make a thread here soon which, with the help of the community will help to make those times and difficulties more accurate. There have been inaccuracies in this thread before which have been corrected too.

I think that overall though, it's quite accurate at the moment when looking down the list as it is now. I'd like to hope that most roadmaps on this site are accurate, but I do know that it will need some work.
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Old 12-29-2010, 12:52 PM   #1502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SetoChaos View Post
I see your point and yes, there will be inaccuracies in my system. Thing is, the TA calculation is good for what it does but it isn't accurate in certain situations.

This is how TA calculates ratio:
Root (Total gamers / Total with Achievement)

This looks accurate, but it only works when there are many people who play a specific game. This is why when you go on TA and sort in order of ratio you will get things like the Russion version of BioShock 2 appear on the first page. Yet the other versions of BioShock 2 have a higher ratio. It's sort of like TA is factoring in the popularity of a game, which using that calculation cannot be helped.

I understand that I am taking one persons opinion but you should understand that this system is just beginning. I hope to make a thread here soon which, with the help of the community will help to make those times and difficulties more accurate. There have been inaccuracies in this thread before which have been corrected too.

I think that overall though, it's quite accurate at the moment when looking down the list as it is now. I'd like to hope that most roadmaps on this site are accurate, but I do know that it will need some work.
PerpetualHeaven is right about inaccurate (or out of date) difficulty ratings, I was just looking at Velvet Assassin being rated an 8/10 even though there are achievement compatible cheats like God mode, infinite morphine, end of level, etc. I think if it were to work you would have to re-evaluate a good deal of roadmaps.
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Old 12-29-2010, 01:41 PM   #1503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sm182 View Post
PerpetualHeaven is right about inaccurate (or out of date) difficulty ratings, I was just looking at Velvet Assassin being rated an 8/10 even though there are achievement compatible cheats like God mode, infinite morphine, end of level, etc. I think if it were to work you would have to re-evaluate a good deal of roadmaps.
Not even rework. You would need a collaborative effort. The reason that this thread is successful because a lot of people chime in and tell the person what's the best fit. If that fit isn't appropriate then someone else says something. It's a great process and allows for multiple people to create the appropriate time slot. Sometimes roadmaps are so far off or too vague with their time range.
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:21 PM   #1504
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Well, yes you're right. This is one of the main reasons that the community would need to work to make the times more accurate. The road maps are a starting point, not final.

As for Velvet Assassin, I've rated that a 4 for difficulty as I've personally finished the game with the keyboard codes.

Anyway, I'd like to post a thread with what I've done but it doesn't look like people here want it so perhaps I shouldn't post it. Although if I don't post it I'm still not going to give up on it, I'll keep it for personal use as I'm still confident that I can build it into something very useful.
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Old 12-29-2010, 03:25 PM   #1505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SetoChaos View Post
Well, yes you're right. This is one of the main reasons that the community would need to work to make the times more accurate. The road maps are a starting point, not final.

As for Velvet Assassin, I've rated that a 4 for difficulty as I've personally finished the game with the keyboard codes.

Anyway, I'd like to post a thread with what I've done but it doesn't look like people here want it so perhaps I shouldn't post it. Although if I don't post it I'm still not going to give up on it, I'll keep it for personal use as I'm still confident that I can build it into something very useful.
Well looks like a problem has already popped up, how can you say Velvet Assassin is a 4/10 for difficulty with cheats enabled? You are invicible, you cannot be killed, all you have to do is walk from one end of the level to the other with infinite morphine for the needed silent kills (so you could get it with the first 200 guards you meet), the 2nd sub-5 hour playthrough can be completed in 5 minutes using the end of level cheat.

I would give it a 1/10 solely as there are collectables in the game (which notSwagger has made a video for so not so difficult either).

Anyway not to make it sound overtly negative, what are the chances of implementing a voting system like they use on the sister site PS3trophies.org? That would help towards the problem I think.
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Old 12-29-2010, 03:33 PM   #1506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sm182 View Post
Well looks like a problem has already popped up, how can you say Velvet Assassin is a 4/10 for difficulty with cheats enabled? You are invicible, you cannot be killed, all you have to do is walk from one end of the level to the other with infinite morphine for the needed silent kills (so you could get it with the first 200 guards you meet), the 2nd sub-5 hour playthrough can be completed in 5 minutes using the end of level cheat.

I would give it a 1/10 solely as there are collectables in the game (which notSwagger has made a video for so not so difficult either).

Anyway not to make it sound overtly negative, what are the chances of implementing a voting system like they use on the sister site PS3trophies.org? That would help towards the problem I think.
Yeah, I used his guide, the reason I say 4 is because it can still be annoying to sneak up on some guards. Then, if you get seen you have to run into the other room and wait for the guard to turn around. You might be invincible, but it can still be frustrating at times.

Well, a voting system would be perfect as the PS3 site is where I got the idea in the first place. The only problem is that unlike the PS3 site we don't have a difficulty poll in every game's forum. I can implement it myself in a spreadsheet and make it work, which is how I currently do it, but although I do plan to keep it updated it would be a lot easier not to have to manually input data.
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Old 12-30-2010, 12:49 AM   #1507
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I'm not using the chart Seta has made. The original/current/future thread has all been created by various gamers sharing the time it takes. Its actually FAIRLY accurate I would say 95-97% of the time. Compare that to TA. An 1700 TA game score means the game is easy but not exactly fast. Look at 99 Nights for an example of that.

I hope to have the new thread ready for the new year btw.
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Old 12-30-2010, 05:22 AM   #1508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightymango View Post
I'm not using the chart Seta has made. The original/current/future thread has all been created by various gamers sharing the time it takes. Its actually FAIRLY accurate I would say 95-97% of the time. Compare that to TA. An 1700 TA game score means the game is easy but not exactly fast. Look at 99 Nights for an example of that.

I hope to have the new thread ready for the new year btw.
I agree with you Mango but to a certain extent. While the TA Ratio system helps add to determine ease of a game, the ratio can be off balanced by the amount of players that have played it. For example, a Japanese game that myself and you would play could have a low Ratio, and still be somewhat challenging due to the amount of players that have played it, along with the Japanese gamers above average skill in games that aren't so common here mainly the SHMUP. Also, Nat Geo Wildlife Quiz is probably one of the easiest games I have ever played, and I can remember that being at 3:1 when I originally played it while I believe now it's down to 2-2.5:1.
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:13 AM   #1509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightymango View Post
I'm not using the chart Seta has made. The original/current/future thread has all been created by various gamers sharing the time it takes. Its actually FAIRLY accurate I would say 95-97% of the time. Compare that to TA. An 1700 TA game score means the game is easy but not exactly fast. Look at 99 Nights for an example of that.

I hope to have the new thread ready for the new year btw.
There may have been some confusion. I was never asking you to use the system which I made. I was thinking of making a new thread myself using the system I created.

The PS3 site has these two threads for the times of Platinums/100%'s:
http://www.ps3trophies.org/forum/gam...psn-100-a.html
http://www.ps3trophies.org/forum/gam...-platinum.html

And in addition, has this thread for difficulty of the games:
http://www.ps3trophies.org/forum/gam...y-ratings.html

So, I wanted to do something similar by making an "efficiency" thread for Achievements.
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Old 12-31-2010, 12:01 AM   #1510
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I personally like the voting system they have at PS3trophies. the only issue i see is with people voting for older games. voting on the time would be a good idea as well. that way gamers can determine for themselves what kind of time they want to invest.
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Old 12-31-2010, 02:46 AM   #1511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xCKJoeh153x View Post
I agree with you Mango but to a certain extent. While the TA Ratio system helps add to determine ease of a game, the ratio can be off balanced by the amount of players that have played it. For example, a Japanese game that myself and you would play could have a low Ratio, and still be somewhat challenging due to the amount of players that have played it, along with the Japanese gamers above average skill in games that aren't so common here mainly the SHMUP. Also, Nat Geo Wildlife Quiz is probably one of the easiest games I have ever played, and I can remember that being at 3:1 when I originally played it while I believe now it's down to 2-2.5:1.
Oh ease yes, TA is great for that. Easy games aren't always fast is my point.

Seta, you can make another thread, I don't have a problem with that. I'm just not going to incorporate it in this one that's all.
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Old 12-31-2010, 04:27 PM   #1512
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Would there be anyway to add a "(DLC)" to games that have DLC that add gamerscore?

It may be a stupid idea since we already have this thread, but generally when I am looking for easy games to play I do not like to choose games that need paid DLC to complete. So it might be relevant to implement something that warns of paid DLC into this thread.

Last edited by Law; 12-31-2010 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 12-31-2010, 05:40 PM   #1513
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Would there be anyway to add a "(DLC)" to games that have DLC that add gamerscore?

It may be a stupid idea since we already have this thread, but generally when I am looking for easy games to play I do not like to choose games that need paid DLC to complete. So it might be relevant to implement something that warns of paid DLC into this thread.

If the DLC fits into the range of keeping it a quick title I will make a note.


edit : I'm working on the new thread in Word as I can do all the hyperlinks with ease there.
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