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Old 01-02-2011, 08:52 PM   #1
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The Problem(s) With Snipers

First off, don't think I'm bashing you if you enjoy playing as a sniper. That's fine, it's a game: have fun - but, at this point (on the verge of lvl 50), I've put in enough time with this game to comfortably say I'm an expert at it. Second, understand that I'm speaking strictly from a "lets get the objectives and win the round" point of view and not a "lets get kills" point of view. I play this game regularly: my k:d is 1.34, out of 1,257 games played I've gotten ace player 356 times. But more importantly I play regularly with a solid delta-force level squad, my win/loss ratio is 2.26 and out of the 1,257 games I (we) have gotten best squad 559 times. I'm not trying to boast about my stats, I just want you all to understand that I know what I'm talking about.

Feel free to check my stats verse (it's probably the most up to date)
http://bfbc2.statsverse.com/stats/36...Prep/#infantry

Alright so.......lets be honest, snipers dont really contribute to the overall success of a squad or a team in more than a tiny marginal way.


So Snipers.... They CAN get kills....which would be cool if we were playing deathmatch. But we aren't, we're trying to secure or hold an objective. But even so, snipers are hardly ever (close to never) the top scoring players, even good snipers don't get as many kills as the three classes who are in the thick of the fighting. And, I'm sure I'm going to get a few "I get top player as a sniper all the time" type responses......well, first off, good for you, that's amazing, and if you really are a sniper that's getting top scores like that, let me know because I'd love to play with a sniper that can bring the pain like that.....because it's SUUUUPER SUPER rare. As I stated above, I play a shit ton, and I never see that shit happen.

Yes, they have mortars which can destroy the occasional vehicle, but most vehicle operators know not to stay stationary - and even with the sniper using the extra explosives dmg perk a tank still has plenty of time to forward or reverse out of the way of a mortar strike. I know when I'm in a tank I maintain movement or, if I need to put rounds down at a distance and it requires me to stay put, I keep my finger ready to shoot forward at the first sign of indirect fire coming in. An engineer or two is much more effective operating in an anti-vehicle capacity. And, yes, the mortar strike can be used in an area-denial role, like for instance, if your team arms an objective a sniper can mortar strike it to prevent the defending team from disarming it for a few seconds. But, again, I hardly see snipers doing that, they're usually more concerned with mortaring other snipers. The predator-style controllable missile from BFBC1 was a better weapon.

Yes, they can have C4, but they hardly use it because they're never close enough to implement it - plus the assault class can have C4 as well.

The only thing the sniper brings to the table in terms of real tangible benefits to the team is the motion mine, which are awesome when they're used.......sadly, that isn't often because, again, the sniper is out far away from the fighting, no where near close enough to employ the motion mine. On the smaller maps its really helpful to have a sniper spamming motion mines...when they actually do it.

Snipers make the WORST squadmates, it's really obnoxious when you're attempting to push on and take an objective and you've got a sniper squadmate on the very fringe of the map, not helping and not even providing a decent spawn point.

Also, lets not forget that the 'sniper' is not actually even called a 'sniper'....it's "RECON". Sadly, the back-button spotting is still spotty at best on BFBC2 and the scope which auto-spots targets hardly works...so it's difficult for a sniper to do its intended job and provide reconnaissance for a team.

And, yeah, I've played as a sniper, I've gotten my gold star with every sniper rifle and 4 with the M24 - I just don't think they're a truly viable asset. I'd even venture to say that they could removed from the game, and it wouldn't have any real adverse effects.

I get it, some people are just in love with the idea of the sniper, lone wolf, undetected, one-shot-one-kill, Tom Beringer - its all very action movie and exciting, I know, I was a designated marksman (not the same as a sniper but a lot of the same principles) in an infantry unit in the Army's 3rd ID for many years. But.....it just doesn't have a real helpful, beneficial role in the realm of BFBC2.

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Old 01-02-2011, 09:24 PM   #2
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I think you have some valid points but it all just comes down to the retards that play this game...
I play the occasional sniper (not when half the team already is) and for almost all of your points a have a counter:
1) want a spawnpoint close by? Okay, then when you've just spawned on me dont start spraying your entire clip at an enemy you cant possibly hit but give away my position in the proces!
2) want me to throw motion mines? Fine, i've only got 3 so in gods name throw down some ammo its only one press of a button!
3) want me to use C4? Cool, but goddamnit have my back when i'm planting it somewhere, the sniperrifle is shit up close!

I dont play as a sniper that much because of the above reasons, it takes the fun out of the whole sniping thing. It's just how you look at it.

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Old 01-02-2011, 09:42 PM   #3
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i like being a sniper, but its probably my fourth choice.

in rush when defending a crate you can be a real benefit to your team, yeah but a squad doent need two recons.

when i recon, i spot. when i recon, im trying to cover the crate, as recon i will put a mortar strike to protect it from defenders. and as recon, i will bring that building down on your ass when i can.

and if i have to i will ditch my location to get in the trenches.
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Old 01-02-2011, 10:21 PM   #4
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honestly think the best thing would be a limit to the amount of snipers allowed on a team....like 3 per team at most.
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Old 01-02-2011, 11:41 PM   #5
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I blame CoD.

AGREE with every single thing stated by OP.

A couple months ago I decided to gold star every weapon in BC2, and wasn't looking foward to doing recon class as I had only gold starred the M95 SA for the achievement and 1 other. I went through and finished every single weapon in the game so I had to suffer through some of the sniper rifles.

I would consider myself a "decent" sniper. I rarely sit in a bush somewhere and start picking off people. I like to get into the fight. I have seriuosly raped people at pretty close range on maps like Harvest Day. Teammates set the crate and I'm sitting 50 feet away and just picking them apart and calling in mortar strikes while sensor spamming. A good squad mate keeps feeding me ammo and I continue sensor spamming.

In Vietnam the sensor ball isn't there (rightfully so due to the era) so it reduces my desire to use recon at all. I will do it to gold star the weapons (I am an achievement / completionist whore!) but will then stick to the other classes.

I have a friend who I play with a lot that loves sniping and doing other completely useless shit. I hate it when he is the only person to spawn on and he is way out there.
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Old 01-03-2011, 12:48 AM   #6
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honestly think the best thing would be a limit to the amount of snipers allowed on a team....like 3 per team at most.
As an ex military player, This is my idea on useless snipers to scared to jack up their K/D. Since we have four team members and four classes lock the class once its picked. I believe they've done something like this in other games SOCOM or something idk never liked SOCOM. This method would literately force players to work as a team instead of I run and gun die then 3 other snipers sit watch and laugh. Hopefully they use something like this in BFBC 3
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Old 01-03-2011, 03:47 AM   #7
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Yes completely agree, get rid of them all together, I'd have no problem with that. I don't know why people think it's so riveting to be a sniper, it bores the shit out of me.
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Old 01-03-2011, 03:52 AM   #8
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This game in general would be so much better without snipers, or atleast cut down a vast amount its just stupid how most games are dominated by snipers today. I say its all the CoD players coming here :P
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Old 01-03-2011, 04:03 AM   #9
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Good post, straight to the reality of things.

There should be class limit per team, that would maybe upset someone, but still, it would make a more complete team.

Motion mines is alfa omega for the recon class, i often find myself switching to recon because NO one throws them out.

I enjoy the recon class, its my 2nd most score class.. but, I just cant understand the excitement in just.. sitting in one spot an entire game. I like to enjoy the beautiful surroundings
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Old 01-03-2011, 04:07 AM   #10
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Sniping is much more enjoyable and balanced in BC2 because of these reasons:
  • Sniping isn't running around doing 1080 no/quick scopes off of a 3 story building. It's about staying far away from the fight and picking off anyone who tries to advance.
  • In real war, a sniper is always acquainted by a spotter so that they can call out enemy troops, distance of a target, wind speed, angle of adjustment, etc.
  • Being a sniper is the most dangerous role in any war because you can die from any direction, whether that's far away or at CQC distance. Especially when your cover is blown, then they're relentlessly hunting you down.
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Old 01-03-2011, 04:30 AM   #11
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I hate being picked off as much as the next guy, but when I snipe, which is quite a bit lately, I always do good compared to my team. I have had quite a few games where I sniped the ENTIRE game, and had a 1000+ lead of score over the rest of my team, and sometimes the other team also. When I snipe, I get close enough to the crate, but not too close, and cover it with mortars and snipe enemies that try to to defuse. I usually run out of ammo before I die and usually get 4 people with the 5 bullets in my mag. My only complaint is that they should employ some kind of limit on the number of people using a certain kit, that would deffinately balance things out.
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Old 01-03-2011, 06:10 AM   #12
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Cool story, bro! I loved that stats part of your side! lol but seriously, I read half, and then I got bored because of the wall of text.

Another thing I can say is:

Snipers can save your ass. Well, the good ones...
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Old 01-03-2011, 06:55 AM   #13
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I'm really not into sniping. the times when i do snipe is when i'm eating or my squad is a three person non sniping unit, i'd watch their back from a distance or when they're rushing the crate. I'm not the best sniper but one thing i do is communicate with the dicks i'm playin with and spot or shoot if the enemy is still.
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Old 01-03-2011, 06:58 AM   #14
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Snipers are only useful for a few things:
  1. Spotting people ()
  2. Picking off enemies disarming/arming the crate
  3. Picking off other enemy snipers
  4. Throwing motion mines in the appropriate places
  5. Calling in mortars on destructable buildings with enemies or a crate inside
  6. Dying
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Old 01-03-2011, 08:00 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McGoogles View Post
Snipers are only useful for a few things:
  1. Spotting people ()
  2. Picking off enemies disarming/arming the crate
  3. Picking off other enemy snipers
  4. Throwing motion mines in the appropriate places
  5. Calling in mortars on destructable buildings with enemies or a crate inside
  6. Dying
Believe it or not, googly, thats a lot that they're needed for. not to mention how much dey piss off most mobile foot soldiers (snipers are stationary killing machines).
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Old 01-03-2011, 08:05 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nichols0vision View Post
Believe it or not, googly, thats a lot that they're needed for. not to mention how much dey piss off most mobile foot soldiers (snipers are stationary killing machines).
Well if they're going to chill back in the spawn and roast marshmallows and worry about their KDR, I expect them to do some work to help out the other mobile foot soldiers and make their lives easier.

And I'm not saying that just one particular sniper should be capable of doing all of the things I listed, instead I said snipers in general.
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Old 01-03-2011, 08:23 AM   #17
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Snipers are also good for calling up the God of aim and sight, wuts his name (i forgot the name of the god...i'm not even sure its called aim and sight, either.). This is important to me and my original squads plans as i, the sniper, Julian, the medic, and Stephon and Joe, the two rocket boys would rush crates as i set in the back direct them (with the help of the aim and sight god), while eating two mc donalds chicken burgers and adjusting the volume to my gaming chair, and tell them how many people are coming from mark Delta, Echo, and Foxtrot(We labeled these as the directions). this was key as i didn't want these men to stick their heads out and die cuz they have families to go back to. ITS VERY IMPORTANT.
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Old 01-03-2011, 05:36 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by MediumMelanin View Post
Cool story, bro! I loved that stats part of your side! lol but seriously, I read half, and then I got bored because of the wall of text.

Another thing I can say is:

Snipers can save your ass. Well, the good ones...
Awesome, thanks for your tangible contribution.
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:25 AM   #19
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Ok, I just got raped in a game of HC Rush on Hastings. And it was because of snipers. There is so many places for people to hide on that map, it's ridiculous. I couldn't even stand still in the back of my spawn for 2 seconds without having my head shot off. Needless to say, I don't think I'll be playing that map on HC anymore.
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Old 01-04-2011, 04:01 PM   #20
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i like to play as a sniper...nothing is more satasfying that a long range headshot on a moving target...BUT...you dont have to use a sniper rifle in the recon class...i like to go urban gorilla and put that C4 to good use

the silver/gold star all weapons achievement has cursed vietnam cause now there seems to be more snipers than the regular multiplayer
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Old 01-04-2011, 04:10 PM   #21
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I agree, including the Gold Medal Achievements was not a really good idea since it forces people to play in a certain way. They should have rather made the achievement get 5 Gold Medals or something like that.

By the way I totally agree with the OP. After having gotten the gold medals for the sniper rifles in Vietnam I really don't understand why people would play as recon, for me personally it is so annoying to wait at one point and snipe someone every once in a while. Especially if you compete with other snipers from your team... One or two recons is really enough per team.
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Old 01-04-2011, 04:18 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrustfulSteve View Post
i like to play as a sniper...nothing is more satasfying that a long range headshot on a moving target...BUT...you dont have to use a sniper rifle in the recon class...i like to go urban gorilla and put that C4 to good use

the silver/gold star all weapons achievement has cursed vietnam cause now there seems to be more snipers than the regular multiplayer

Yeah I was going to write the same pretty much, really like how you can customize the recon class in such a way that you can actually have a squad mate who is able to hold their own whilst contributing with their motion mines, and thereby reaching a compromise between OP and the pro-snipers.

Vietnam conquest has suffered massively from the gold star achievement, I remember playing 3 maps in a server with a team comprising mainly of snipers last night. The enemy never had trouble capping all the bases.
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:36 PM   #23
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I honestly don't think the recon class is that bad as a whole. True, you will have the sniper that camps way off at the other end of the map but I also see recon classes being used in other ways. One thing I love running is what I call the ninja class, basically a recon with either the Thompson or a shotgun. That way I can get super close to throw motion mines and also c4 the objective. Other times I'll get a sniper and do serious work at hindering the other team. I believe it's isla innocents with the one island. There, as an attacker, I like to snipe the other team and mortar all their cover on that solitary island. I also work to suppress the other team by killing the guys on the MG nests. That carries on to the last part of that map where I work to cover objectives and also kill guys on the nest at the hanger or in the towers, all while motion mining. Another map I snipe on is Arica harbor. I'll get on that hill and flank the other team in their spawn so my guys can arm B since I've usually destroyed A at that point with mortars.

I think the misconception is that people see the guille suit and think "I'm a sniper!" no you're not a sniper, you're recon. Sniping is very effective at times because if skillfully used can suppress the other team somethig fierce. But a recon also needs to know which maps to get down and dirty and use that ninja method I mentioned earlier.
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Old 01-05-2011, 12:38 AM   #24
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The only reason my K/D ratio is above 1.00 is because I play as a sniper.. having 15 kills and 2 deaths is not a bad way to be.
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:00 AM   #25
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The only reason my K/D ratio is above 1.00 is because I play as a sniper.. having 15 kills and 2 deaths is not a bad way to be.
My K/D ratio is above 3.0 and I rush with my engineer class. Not trying to brag, just saying that you don't have to snipe to have a good K/D ratio.
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Old 01-05-2011, 07:25 AM   #26
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I agree, including the Gold Medal Achievements was not a really good idea since it forces people to play in a certain way. They should have rather made the achievement get 5 Gold Medals or something like that.
it's the only reason i bother with recon. stupid achievements!
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:29 AM   #27
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Yeah I especially dislike playing recon on Vietnam. In Vanilla it was fun every once in a while to use it mainly for the motion mines. Now without the mines I simply don't like it. Even though I did find some pretty good camping spots and got really good K/Ds, it's just not fun.
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:04 AM   #28
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I agree overall with what you say but it does depend on the sniper and the team.

Some people who go recon (not many), get kills and help pin down and watch peoples backs around an objective while team mates plant.
They also move close, provide mortar support on the objective when planting on rush for example.
However this is so in the minority. Mainly you end up with people just looking for kills while the game runs down.
What I cant stand (repetition from most people)

1. I HATE joining a game where 3 people are Recon AND they cant hit a COWS A*** from 6 ft with a sniper rifle!
2. When your trying to plant and everyone is sniping and you cant do anything BECAUSE they are all sniping
3. People who think they are ace snipers who have to hit you 5-6 to kill you
4. Guys who use the same spot AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN

In some games if someone keeps sniping me Ill go recon and blow them away say 5-6 times then Ill change class and be something else. That or Ill use recon and go assault wookie.
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:25 PM   #29
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I really hate sniping but we need our achievements.
I don't mind having a couple of snipers on my team as they can generally be useful at taking out opposition snipers which is good as most snipers camp and I hate being killed by a camper, especially one from far away.
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:01 PM   #30
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this pretty much sums it up

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