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Old 01-15-2011, 11:22 AM   #1
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Is 'Was it Worth it' impossible?

I tried for 2 hours to get Was it Worth it? but no dice. One thing I tried is pressing Lock if a battle didn't go my way and then resuming, in hopes that I could try the same fight repeatedly to get the Achievement. Unfortunately, the outcome of every dice roll on a turn is determined before you even roll the dice! I reloaded the same save 4 times and I always rolled the same numbers for movement and each numbered battle (1st battle, 2nd, etc.).

Every time I got to a fourth die roll on a zombie, the outcome was a 5 or 6. I just don't know if it's possible to get less than a 4 on that last roll. Even just setting up an attempt at the damn roll takes several minutes since you have to go out and get at least one extra heart and have (preferably) at least 3 bullets per attempt.

UPDATE!

The update that fixes the game has gone live. I got it myself during my first post-patch game.
Zombies!!! Mango update unleashed

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Old 01-15-2011, 11:53 AM   #2
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Interesting that about the die rolls being predetermined.

Anyhow, I wouldn't call it impossible, but you would need one hell of a streak of terrible luck. I'm going to keep playing terrible rounds of Survival, ditch the fire ax, and let them come at me hoping the computer hates me.
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Old 01-15-2011, 01:29 PM   #3
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I have tried doing this 50+ times and it wont unlock. No matter what i always get a 5 or a 6 on the last roll.
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Old 01-15-2011, 03:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrohir View Post
I have tried doing this 50+ times and it wont unlock. No matter what i always get a 5 or a 6 on the last roll.
^This.

Bloody annoying me now, this is the only cheev I don't have on this game.

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Old 01-15-2011, 05:16 PM   #5
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Statistically I can CONFIRM that "Was it Worth it?" is currently impossible due to computer "assistance".

Using a game with 2 human players to control all zombie movement and card plays on both sides. The roll after 3 failures is ALWAYS a success even though it should only be a victory in 50% of the cases. I have lost the exact count but I am in the 23-25 range of 3 misses and can not roll a 4th failure afterwards (for the bullets).

After 3 missess you will ALWAYS roll a 4,5, or 6.

The odds of this are occurring are: .0000000298
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Old 01-15-2011, 05:35 PM   #6
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The odds of rolling 4 failures is 6.25% and I have attempted this at least 150 times now and have always had a 4+ for the 4th roll.

I emailed the dev thinking maybe the achievement details were changed from "one turn" to "one combat" because it is always a positive roll on that 4 die roll.

The odds are not that ridiculous. It's 50/50 each time because 1, 2, 3 are - and 4, 5, 6 are +.
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Old 01-15-2011, 05:57 PM   #7
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The odds are not that ridiculous. It's 50/50 each time because 1, 2, 3 are - and 4, 5, 6 are +.[/QUOTE]


???

6.25% "should" be the chance for any single combat IF the developers coded correclty.

.0000000298% is the chance for 25 sequential sucesses with out a single failure (bullets) ocuring in a series of 50/50 tosses. Obviously I am not counting all the other outcomes like 1 failure 1 sucess.

I am only tracking the 4th outcome roll after 3 failures in a row becase thats all that matters!

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Old 01-15-2011, 09:14 PM   #8
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i would think someone would have it by now if it wasn't broken.
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Old 01-15-2011, 09:58 PM   #9
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Considering you "lost count"...

I know I had 74 attempts. The chances are STILL 6.25% of getting a 4th negative die roll. It doesn't change because you attempted it more times.

"After 3 misses you will ALWAYS roll a 4,5, or 6.

The odds of this are occurring are: .0000000298" <- That is not correct.

2*2*2*2=16 The probability of 4 negatives is 1/16 = 6.25%

".0000000298% is the chance for 25 sequential successes with out a single failure" <-- This isn't either. You have 2 too many zeros.

2^25 = 33554432 so the probability for 25 sequential successes is 1/33554432 = .00000298%

Edit*

I think I know what you were trying to say but worded it poorly.

The chances of 25 sequential successes is stated above, but the chance to go into a single attempt of 4 negatives in a row is still 6.25%. You cannot just pluck that 4th die roll out of the equation, slap on that you did it 25 times and call it a true calculation of your attempts.

Each and every time you throw the die there is still a 50/50 chance. Throwing out all the other die rolls is not correct. I can also turn it around and say in actuality you threw 100 die rolls and 25 of them were positive. So it was actually 25% of the time you threw positive. The probability of 25/25 is again stated above but you aren't throwing 25, you were throwing 100.
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Old 01-15-2011, 10:31 PM   #10
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Once you accomplish a 4th die roll at all, shouldn't chance be 50% of getting a negative? You're factoring in the first 3 rolls, but all that matters is the fourth roll.
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:16 AM   #11
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I think people are missing the point that this should happen 6 out of 100 or 1 in 17 times you enter combat and it clearly isn't as I like most people on this site have had almost 100 attempts without it happening. What is worse is that if the final roll is 50/50 which I don't believe it is I should have got it around my second or third attempt while despite having almost 100 attempts all my 4th rolls have been 4 or more. From that I can only believe that this achievement is bugged due to an assist in the game not allowing you to lose 4 in a row.
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:38 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastx View Post
Once you accomplish a 4th die roll at all, shouldn't chance be 50% of getting a negative? You're factoring in the first 3 rolls, but all that matters is the fourth roll.
Correct. The probability though comes from the 16 possible "solutions" if 4 die are rolled. While each die has a 50% chance, you still have to calculate the percentage factoring in those first 3 die rolls. So the chance of all 4 die rolling 1-3 is 6.25%.
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPL1FF 91 View Post
I think people are missing the point that this should happen 6 out of 100 or 1 in 17 times you enter combat and it clearly isn't as I like most people on this site have had almost 100 attempts without it happening. What is worse is that if the final roll is 50/50 which I don't believe it is I should have got it around my second or third attempt while despite having almost 100 attempts all my 4th rolls have been 4 or more. From that I can only believe that this achievement is bugged due to an assist in the game not allowing you to lose 4 in a row.
I think you are correct as well. I've attempted this myself 150+ times and why I emailed the dev for exactly the reason above. No email back yet since it's the weekend but I hope to get a response back on Monday.
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:44 AM   #14
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i twittered them a few days ago and they told me it was bad luck.
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Old 01-16-2011, 05:09 AM   #15
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The developers' email address is:

contact(at)babaroga.com

My email bounced back for some reason (and yes, I fixed the @ in the addy). Their Twitter is here:
http://twitter.com/#!/babarogatweet

Let's all give it a shot and see if we can get them to release an update.

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Old 01-16-2011, 05:26 PM   #16
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This achievement is doing my head in. It is as bad as roll 3 double sizes in monopoly wp7. played that for 36 hrs trying until I gave up.
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:18 PM   #17
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Hi All -

We are the developer on Zombies!!!

First, I would like to thank all of you for playing the game. I hope you are enjoying it. It was a fun game to develop, and we had a lot of fun with the license.

I hear your concerns about possibility of unlocking 'Was it worth it?'. I can tell you that it is not a bug. We would have never passed through certification if that achievement did not work. However, it is difficult, I will admit to that.

It is true, the odds of failing 4 times in a row is pretty small - about 6%. But that is not all. You also have to have started the unlucky roll with 4 hearts. This would mean that the 4th 'fail' would happen on a single heart. At this point you have to have enough bullets to kill the zombie. This brings the odds of unlocking it even lower. I hope that helps. Good luck!

If you have any other questions, I would be very happy to answer them. You can always reach us at contact@babaroga.com or find us on FB. You can go to our home page (http://babaroga.com) and hit the 'like' button or send us a note.

P.S. We also worked on WP7 adaptation of Monopoly, Need for Speed, and the Sims 3. I guess rolling 3x doubles gave you similar headache. :-) I can tell you for Monopoly as well - it happens. It would happen in our QA too.
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:08 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by babaroga View Post
Hi All -

We are the developer on Zombies!!!

First, I would like to thank all of you for playing the game. I hope you are enjoying it. It was a fun game to develop, and we had a lot of fun with the license.

I hear your concerns about possibility of unlocking 'Was it worth it?'. I can tell you that it is not a bug. We would have never passed through certification if that achievement did not work. However, it is difficult, I will admit to that.

It is true, the odds of failing 4 times in a row is pretty small - about 6%. But that is not all. You also have to have started the unlucky roll with 4 hearts. This would mean that the 4th 'fail' would happen on a single heart. At this point you have to have enough bullets to kill the zombie. This brings the odds of unlocking it even lower. I hope that helps. Good luck!

If you have any other questions, I would be very happy to answer them. You can always reach us at contact@babaroga.com or find us on FB. You can go to our home page (http://babaroga.com) and hit the 'like' button or send us a note.

P.S. We also worked on WP7 adaptation of Monopoly, Need for Speed, and the Sims 3. I guess rolling 3x doubles gave you similar headache. :-) I can tell you for Monopoly as well - it happens. It would happen in our QA too.
Ah, so you have to have exactly 4 hearts when attempting the achievement? If you have 5, looses 3 and then tries to use a bullet it won´t unlock? (since you still have an extra heart at your disposal)

Edited: great game, I am really enjoying it. But only a flaw, I must say. It should have multiplayer via Live (since the game uses turns it should not be that hard to implement). Maybe a future update?
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Old 01-18-2011, 02:41 AM   #19
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Thank you for getting back to us and welcome to the forums!

You mentioned that your game wouldn't have passed certification if an Achievement was unattainable. But there are many documented cases of Achievements being glitched or otherwise unattainable, resulting in a patch being released later on.

The 'Was it Worth it?" Achievement's description does not mention a requirement of having exactly four hearts. If that is truly the case, it would be a very good idea to change the description because most people's tendency will be to get the maximum number of hearts (5) before trying to earn the Achievement.

After receiving your email, I decided to try earning the Achievement with 4 hearts instead of 5. I would say I got to the fourth die roll ~15 times today. Each and every time, the roll was higher than 4. That just shouldn't happen. There should be a fifty percent chance of the fourth roll being 3 or less. If a player fails to roll lower than a 4 once, twice, even three times, it can be attributed to chance. But I was unable to roll lower than a 4 more than 10 times today alone. That's not bad luck. It's an error in your die rolling algorithm.

Have you personally earned this Achievement? I see that the GamerCard on your account here hasn't played the game. Please, take my experience seriously and try it for yourself to see. I can tell you (and the other gamers here would agree) that trying to earn it has been an incredibly frustrating experience. I'm sure game developers aim to entertain players, not frustrate them. Your goal when designing the Achievement was fine, but in actual practice, it's 1 - absolutely no fun to even set up the convoluted circumstance necessary to attempt the Achievement, and 2 - impossible or virtually impossible to get it no matter what due to what has to be a die roll algorithm problem.

Predetermining every die roll for a turn before the player has actually chosen to roll the die seems like a bad idea. Is there any benefit to that decision? If each roll was truly random and not predetermined by the computer prior to accepting player input, saving when the player has 4 hearts and 3+ bullets and reattempting the turn until the proper circumstances happen would be a viable, faster, and likely less frustrating experience. And who knows, maybe having the computer decide all those rolls ahead of time is why the fourth roll is never less than a 4.

Please consider what I've said and look into the die rolling situation. Something is going on or players would be able to roll lower than a 4 on the fourth die roll. In fact, I just checked here:
http://www.mygamercard.net/leaderboa...c=27&x=60&y=16
and literally no one has the Achievement.

Last edited by eastx; 01-18-2011 at 02:49 AM.
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Old 01-18-2011, 04:20 AM   #20
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I agree that there is something going on here, as I played this a bunch on Survival, I noticed distinct patterns of the 1st 3 die rolls many times, like 1, 1, 2, 4 and so on. I would see the same exact 4 numbers multiple times. The odds of seeing an exact combination in a specific order multiple times is very small. I'm considering keeping track of all the rolls over an entire survival game while killing all the zombies. I don't see how this is possible to get as I have also tried it 100+ times with 4 and 5 hearts and did not get it a single time.
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Old 01-18-2011, 03:38 PM   #21
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Wtf - I just got this. Started with 4 hearts the dices were 2,2,1 and with 1 heart I got a 3 and used my last bullet. No achievement.I'm not happy. . I have spent over 4hrs a day playing this


Wtf
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Old 01-18-2011, 04:07 PM   #22
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Wtf - I just got this. Started with 4 hearts the dices were 2,2,1 and with 1 heart I got a 3 and used my last bullet. No achievement.I'm not happy. . I have spent over 4hrs a day playing this


Wtf


I only had 1bullet to start with
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Old 01-18-2011, 06:53 PM   #23
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I have just tried something. I started a turn and rolled the dices. Quit and done it again. All 10 times I did this I had the samenumbers in the same order all 10 times. so why is this. Why is this so hard to do and when I did right I did not get the achievement
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Old 01-18-2011, 07:38 PM   #24
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It was already discussed that the results from a dice roll was already calculated before you start the actual roll (maybe calculated at the start of the turn?). If you save then enter combat and quit after, if you re-load the game you will always get the same results.

You have to do this achievement without reloading the game.
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Old 01-19-2011, 07:36 PM   #25
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Impossible

Hmmm

Just thought i'd add my 2 bob here. I'm pretty sure it's impossible as it stands too.

I spent forever with this on Survival and couldn't get 1 to 3 on the fourth dice roll despite having a huge number of time i qualified with three failures before hand.

I don't think anyone is recorded as having the full 200 points yet?
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Old 01-19-2011, 07:38 PM   #26
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I don't think anyone is recorded as having the full 200 points yet?
Nobody has it. You can check here:

http://www.mygamercard.net/leaderboa...c=27&x=60&y=16

When people start getting 200 points on it (after the patch we hope for), they'll show up at the top of the list.
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:07 PM   #27
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2 people have this now
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:39 PM   #28
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2 people have this now
I'm not seeing anyone with it. And would it kill you to type a little better? :\
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:57 PM   #29
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sorry the last post was written on my phone. people who have this are

http://www.trueachievements.com/slysy.htm
http://www.trueachievements.com/FUDG+DRAG0N.htm
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:25 AM   #30
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Here's a twitter reply I've recently received:

"@babarogatweet @stevivor @Krazie_x360a @segacon We're looking into it, please stay tuned!"

http://twitter.com/#!/babarogatweet/...71281462382592
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