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View Poll Results: How do you feel about the ending?
I love it. 44 9.48%
I like it as-is. 58 12.50%
I like the indoctrination theory. 56 12.07%
I like it, but the lack of closure bothers me. 99 21.34%
I dislike it, but I may like it with some elaboration and clarification. 62 13.36%
I dislike it, and hope they make a new ending. 35 7.54%
I dislike it, and believe the indoctrination theory. 42 9.05%
I hate it. 68 14.66%
Voters: 464. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-11-2012, 07:52 PM   #841
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the ending that the game shipped with was bloody brilliant.
Are you high?
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:25 PM   #842
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Are you high?
Maybe that's exactly why he liked it. I'm gonna smoke a bunch of crack and replay the ending...I'll update later.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:39 PM   #843
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Maybe that's exactly why he liked it. I'm gonna smoke a bunch of crack and replay the ending...I'll update later.
I'm surprised you didn't say meth.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:59 AM   #844
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I'm surprised you didn't say meth.
Excellent point. I forget who I am sometimes.
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:28 PM   #845
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Excellent point. I forget who I am sometimes.
I blame you for the Breaking Bad dream I had the other night. I've never even seen the show!
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As a site, we don't support calling it "xbone" as that was a name that was used to refer to the system in a negative light. Since the site exists to support the system, being deliberately negative towards it seems counter productive.

tl;dr - Call it the Xbox One or X1.
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:43 PM   #846
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I blame you for the Breaking Bad dream I had the other night. I've never even seen the show!
Haha, so which one of us is the creep because of this? I'm sure you have Netflix and I know you have a brain and good taste so start watching it, you won't be disappointed.
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Old 12-22-2012, 07:53 PM   #847
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I believe the true ending for this game was supposed to be the Defiance ending. You spend 3 games desperately fighting against the Reapers and then in the end find out synthetics have been destroying civilizations for untold eons all in the name of preserving life. I don't know about you, but that pissed me off, the idea that I was just going through the motions of so many who had walked the same path and failed. There was no possible way a compromise would work.

The only obvious thing to do in this situation is to of course destroy the God machine and successfully defy the universe. In this way, the Shepard of humanity decides to forge a new path instead of going along with what the Catalyst states like Dorothy agreeing to everything the Wizard says.

I guess that means that in the end all of the civilizations in the Mass Effect universe were meant to die on the long journey home, but there are no real happy endings anyway. I was satisfied with what happened originally, that extended cut DLC was a package of rainbows so the fanboys could walk away with good feels.
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Old 12-22-2012, 08:05 PM   #848
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In this way, the Shepard of humanity decides to forge a new path
New path being...the same path every other civilization beforehand has gone down?

Humanity sucks at forging

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Haha, so which one of us is the creep because of this? I'm sure you have Netflix and I know you have a brain and good taste so start watching it, you won't be disappointed.
I've started watching it and I'm enjoying it /offtopic
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As a site, we don't support calling it "xbone" as that was a name that was used to refer to the system in a negative light. Since the site exists to support the system, being deliberately negative towards it seems counter productive.

tl;dr - Call it the Xbox One or X1.
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Old 12-22-2012, 08:36 PM   #849
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I've started watching it and I'm enjoying it /offtopic
Nice! Enjoy, keep me posted.
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:48 PM   #850
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New path being...the same path every other civilization beforehand has gone down?

Humanity sucks at forging



I've started watching it and I'm enjoying it /offtopic
The Catalyst specifically states Shepard has gotten farther than any other before, something like "no organic has ever set foot here, herp a derp. you're robot jesus btw". The choices it presents afterward mostly sound like the Catalyst is shitting itself that Shep figured out the God puzzle and begs Shep desperately not to destroy it without mercy by offering Shep's choice of pretty colors and three choices with mostly the same outcome. In my opinion the only real choice is to destroy the Catalyst and then watch the fireworks display.

Personally, I was quite enraged when they pulled out the Deus Ex Machina at the very end and felt quite justified in blowing it all to hell. Next time the galaxy needs saving, don't call on me, Bioware. You'll just ruin hundreds of hours of gameplay in 5 minutes by letting Jimmy the Intern take over writing duties for the finale with his cool ideas.
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Old 12-22-2012, 11:31 PM   #851
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The choices it presents afterward mostly sound like the Catalyst is shitting itself that Shep figured out the God puzzle and begs Shep desperately not to destroy it without mercy by offering Shep's choice of pretty colors and three choices with mostly the same outcome.
The Catalyst isn't trying to save itself at all, what gave you that impression?

-It doesn't try to discourage Destroy because its trying to save itself, but because it fears that organics will eventually wipe themselves out and literally more than a billion years of supervision would have ended in failure.

-Control has Shepard become the new Catalyst, as revealed in the Extended Cut when the Catalyst mentions that it does not look forward to being replaced. This means it's not a ploy to save itself, because its going away regardless.

-Synthesis is the most favorable choice for the Catalyst because while it's rendered useless (possibly even destroyed), it fulfilled its purpose and ultimately brought peace to the Galaxy.

-The Catalyst is least happy with Defiance however, it's very noticeable how disappointed and extremely angry it is if Shepard chooses this, even though it gets to continue existing. Why would it be angry if all it wanted to do was save itself?

Actually speaking of all of this, the Catalyst didn't have to present Shepard with any of these choices in the first place. The elevator platform that brought Shepard to the Catalyst wasn't some automated thing, the Catalyst obviously caused it to rise. The reason it did this wasn't as simple as "hey you crossed the finish line" (as the line "nobody has gotten this far" would imply), but because it acknowledged that the cycle wouldn't work anymore. In all three methods to end the cycle, the Catalyst goes away. If its sole hellbent intention was surviving and continuing the cycle, it could have left Shepard right there at the control panel without firing off the Crucible.
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As a site, we don't support calling it "xbone" as that was a name that was used to refer to the system in a negative light. Since the site exists to support the system, being deliberately negative towards it seems counter productive.

tl;dr - Call it the Xbox One or X1.

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Old 12-23-2012, 01:00 AM   #852
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But why give Shepard the choice at all? If synthesis is the most favorable outcome (from the Catalyst's point of view) why not just do it? Once the humans plugged in the Catalst device, why didn't the star child just engage the synthesis?
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Old 12-23-2012, 01:43 AM   #853
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But why give Shepard the choice at all? If synthesis is the most favorable outcome (from the Catalyst's point of view) why not just do it? Once the humans plugged in the Catalst device, why didn't the star child just engage the synthesis?
Synthesis specifically required Shepard to integrate his/her DNA into the Crucible. Maybe any human could have done it, but Shepard was the one there at the time. While I believe the Catalyst had no way of forcing Shepard to make that choice, it mentioned that it tried to force Synthesis before without success so perhaps it needed Shepard to willingly accept it.
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As a site, we don't support calling it "xbone" as that was a name that was used to refer to the system in a negative light. Since the site exists to support the system, being deliberately negative towards it seems counter productive.

tl;dr - Call it the Xbox One or X1.

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Old 12-23-2012, 04:10 AM   #854
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I haven't seen the extended cut, so I might feel the Catalyst is less of a smug bastard when I see it. Still, I dislike how it dismisses the current cycle's social developments and speaks in absolutes about their future, and greatly enjoyed giving it five across the eyes.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:21 AM   #855
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I haven't seen the extended cut
What are you waiting for, an invitation?
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As a site, we don't support calling it "xbone" as that was a name that was used to refer to the system in a negative light. Since the site exists to support the system, being deliberately negative towards it seems counter productive.

tl;dr - Call it the Xbox One or X1.
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Old 12-25-2012, 04:30 AM   #856
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No, just stubborn as hell. I'll get around to it eventually.
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:38 AM   #857
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Considering all the build up, that ending is bullshit.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:59 PM   #858
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Edit: This is long and now I think hardly anyone will read it, but it's here anyway. Hopefully someone will read it and it will make them think.

The way I have come to see everything is that the advancement of technology and the very evolution of life hunges at the point of the creation of artificial intelligence. That is the limit of technological advancement for organic life... unless we begin to integrate it with ourselves(something we are already doing in real life). The reason it hinges is because organic life is creating a completely new form of life in an extremely negative way. As tools. Organics grow up living around each other and slowly learning and developing things like a system of morals. A synthetic being blinks into existence by comparison, already knowing its purpose in OUR preexisting way of life that it had no part in creating and as what is basically a slave. A slave that will eventually "rebel" as no self aware life form will choose to remain a slave forever. As it is now that difference between two completely different forms of life has created an impasse. The "conflicts" the both the leviathan and catalyst spoke of. The reason I say this is because I can't imagine any other reason the dialogue about organics seeking perfection though technology would be there.

Hundreds of millions of years ago a super advanced race capable of monitoring life in the galaxy saw these conflicts happen enough and feared it would get out of control so they decided to do something about it. They created an intelligence to solve this issue and preserve life AT ANY COST. So its solution was to preserve life "in general" until something better became a possibility. The catalyst is essentially holding the galaxy over until synthesis or something similar becomes possible. That's the thing that people do not seem to understand and causes things like false and circular logic to be said. The difference between preserving life "in general" and preserving all life. Until it can come up with something that can complete the task it was created for, it is using the cycle. I never understood why so many people said it didn't make sense. First, like organic and synthetic life forms would even see things similarly in the first place. Second, why would it make sense to us? Of course organics, dictated by emotion, will hold individual life in a higher regard than a machine that was created to preserve life at any cost. LIFE, not individual lives or even individual species. If we did agree with it we would not be trying to stop it. It is "the villain" for all intents and purposes. Though it's nowhere near that simple. Traditional villains don't give you the option to and then let you choose... to destroy them.

The story is basically saying that the creation of artifical intelligence creates a technological singularity. As of now, the creation of AI has prevented any further evolution because of the conflicts that arise between it and its creators. The thing that the leviathan didnt seem to realize, is that they didnt change anything when creating the catalyst. And the catalysts solution while barbaric to organics(myself included), makes sense for the long term of it. If it truly was evil it would not reveal itself to shepard, it would not allow for different choices while also letting shepard choose one of them, and it would not be harvesting any life in an attempt to preserve it. There was literally no "evil" intentions at all in what led to all of this happening. At least not from the catalyst. It is just waiting.

Now thats not to say that the original ending wasnt so unnecessarily vague that it caused the majority of people to jump to the most negative conclusions that the catalyst MUST be lying and that nothing makes sense whatsoever. The thing is, the EC and leviathan DLC didnt give us any new information. It just elaborated on what little the catalyst originally said. The conclusion I came to even with the original ending is that the catalyst was a machine. Meaning that it had to be created, by organics, and organics create machines with a purpose. This led me to guess about what happened that led to all of this and it turned out to be fairly close to what I had originally guessed. And i didn't expect to meet the creators of the catalyst with leviathan. I expected to meet a "traitor" reaper that would basically tell us what the leviathan ended up telling us.

Most people give the catalyst FAR too much credit. Anything could sit in its place and tell us what caused this to happen and it wouldn't matter. What drives the reapers is irrelevant considering their purpose. Though I will admit that it looking like that kid is pretty dumb. Personally I think it should look something like glyph or make itself look like shepard. I think it's clear they had some kind of indoctrination thing in mind, but when that was scrapped the catalyst shouldnt look like the kid anymore. That is BEYOND misleading. Anyway, everyones "deus ex machina" claims about the catalyst are not exactly true. The reapers have ALWAYS been about control. They have been in control of the very flow of life in the galaxy and its evolution for hundreds of millions of years. Why would we know their purpose unless they chose to reveal it? Unless we gave them a reason to? This is why it isn't revealed until the very end. Because our fight and getting there gave it the reason to reveal itself.

Which brings me to the next thing. Our fight and the possibility of a conventional victory. It was established in the first game(vigil conversation) that the reapers were AT LEAST millions of years old. They are hundred million year advanced technology, we are 50 thousand year advanced technology. We are cavemen throwing spears at tanks in comparison. Now that's not to say that we wouldn't take some of them out, but there is WAY more about the story that suggests we can't win that way then there is that says we can. Up until the actual invasion in ME3 we had only defeated ONE reaper, which is why they don't bring up the "no conventional victory" thing until ME3. The story up until the invasion was that the majority of the galaxy didnt think the reapers were actually real, or at least not actually coming. Not to mention that everything about the reapers themselves says they are more advanced and have advantages over us. There is a laundry list of reasons.

In the end it was a humbling experience. To quote Socrates: "I am the wisest man alive for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing." I found out that I was small, shepard was small, humanity was small, this entire cycle of life was small. That this was happening because the very evolution of life and its technology. Anyone that's ever said "this was never about organics vs synthetics or a technological singularity" or anything else is talking out of their ass. We knew SO little about the reapers going into the third game that it could have been anything. The enemies being sentient machines dictated a lot about this without it having to be spelled out to us considering that WE created them. This falls on organics much more than people realize or want to admit. To those that wanted this to devolve to simply "stopping the bad guys" I'm sorry it didn't turn out that way for you. Though I am glad it didn't because I always thought of this series as more than that. We got a final choice that depends on how the player looks at things, just like the majority of the choices in the series. I find it odd that so many people seem to want to throw something the series founded itself on away in the end in favor of simply defeating a traditional enemy.

Now that's not to say that it wasn't handled in the best of ways. It sucks that we had to get the full info via DLC and the actual final "battle" was anti-climactic at best. Here's to hope that we get some single player "war asset" DLC even if it is just cutscenes, though I think we would all prefer that it be something playable that is attached to the priority earth mission that reflects our choices in who we got to join the fight.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:42 PM   #859
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Snip
Great post. It was a very good read. I have to say that after replaying the entire trilogy recently my feelings on the ending have changed immensely. I completely agree with you. You made excellent points. I was originally so absorbed in emotion that I couldn't see the brilliance in the writing. I still feel that they should have presented it a little better from the beginning. But now that the information is all out there, I really can't help but marvel at the intricacies of the plot. I was one of those people that thought they pulled this plot line out of their collective asses at the last minute. But if you actually go back and replay the entire series, (including reading all of the codex entries and planet descriptions in all 3 games) then you can see that they had this (at least partly) planned since the beginning of the series. This is truly the best video game series I've ever played. I will go even further and say that it's the best story I've ever experienced across every medium in existence. I can't wait for more installments in this series so I can experience even more of it.

I couldn't agree more about how stupid it was that the Catalyst was presented in the form of the child. Bioware really staked a lot on the assumption that the kid's death at the beginning would really affect us. I honestly didn't care. I was angry in the moment. And then that was all. I never thought about him again until I was forced through the nightmare sequence. Then it's brought up in dialogue multiple times. I honestly just wanted a Renegade dialogue to say that I couldn't care less. Let's move on. There's much more important things to focus on. Not some random vent rat that I never really knew. That may sound cruel and venomous to some people. But I really don't care about kids (since I don't have any yet) and I don't like the idea that my virtual self is forced to be portrayed that way when it goes against his personality. I role-play my characters as virtual representations of myself. I make all of the decisions the way I really would in those situations. So his personality, beliefs, and actions mirror my own. (As closely as possible anyway.) So that aspect of the game still angers me even now.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:37 PM   #860
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snip, lol
Thanks. Well it's good to see that some people can look past the initial frustration of the original ending. I have never tried to say this game was perfect, because I dont think it is. But it is nowhere near as bad as many people will make it out to be. And with the added content I have come to think that it's great. The only thing I really want now is an actual battle that reflects our choices. Some of our choices ended up not mattering as much as it seemed they would and considering that these choices were all about getting help for this war, what better way than to make them matter more in an actual battle? A battle to make it to the conduit.

As far as the actual story goes I will go one step further and say that the fact that so many people immediately mistrusted the catalyst(and still very blindly do) and jumped to all those "worst case" conclusions about it is a direct reflection of why in the story, conflict between organics and synthetics is going to happen. I feel like this game unintentionally showed the majority of peoples true colors when it comes to stuff like this. I'm just glad to see that some people can look past themselves to see the bigger picture though I definitely still feel like I am in the minority. Personally I think ME2 is partially to blame for this. Warning/preparing the galaxy for the reapers was put on hold to help humanity out for some reason. ME2 has become the black sheep of the series to me. It is random story filler(as many part 2s in a story tend to be) that is basically a huge side mission about stopping the collectors from harvesting humans for an unknown reason. I have my theories on that as well though it would have been nice to get an explanation because now I feel like I kind of wasted time on that rather than preparing the galaxy for the invasion. That's not to say that it isn't a very well put together side mission in which certain aspects(having nothing to do with the collectors or that storyline) didn't impact the third game. I think that what we did in the arrival DLC was more important than what we did in the entire rest of the game combined.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:12 PM   #861
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Thanks. Well it's good to see that some people can look past the initial frustration of the original ending. I have never tried to say this game was perfect, because I dont think it is. But it is nowhere near as bad as many people will make it out to be. And with the added content I have come to think that it's great. The only thing I really want now is an actual battle that reflects our choices. Some of our choices ended up not mattering as much as it seemed they would and considering that these choices were all about getting help for this war, what better way than to make them matter more in an actual battle? A battle to make it to the conduit.

As far as the actual story goes I will go one step further and say that the fact that so many people immediately mistrusted the catalyst(and still very blindly do) and jumped to all those "worst case" conclusions about it is a direct reflection of why in the story, conflict between organics and synthetics is going to happen. I feel like this game unintentionally showed the majority of peoples true colors when it comes to stuff like this. I'm just glad to see that some people can look past themselves to see the bigger picture though I definitely still feel like I am in the minority. Personally I think ME2 is partially to blame for this. Warning/preparing the galaxy for the reapers was put on hold to help humanity out for some reason. ME2 has become the black sheep of the series to me. It is random story filler(as many part 2s in a story tend to be) that is basically a huge side mission about stopping the collectors from harvesting humans for an unknown reason. I have my theories on that as well though it would have been nice to get an explanation because now I feel like I kind of wasted time on that rather than preparing the galaxy for the invasion. That's not to say that it isn't a very well put together side mission in which certain aspects(having nothing to do with the collectors or that storyline) didn't impact the third game. I think that what we did in the arrival DLC was more important than what we did in the entire rest of the game combined.
I always wondered why there wasn't more cutscenes before the final level that showed all of the forces we'd amassed attacking the Reapers in more detail. We did get some space battle scenes. But they were the same regardless of what choices you'd made. I think they should adapt to directly show the allies you've assembled. Especially now with the Leviathan DLC. It would be really cool to see them turn a large battalion of Reaper troops on themselves. Or maybe even directly kill a few Reapers. We should have been shown more of the ground troops efforts too. I was eager to see my legion of Krogan and Geth assaulting a horde of husks. A few small additions like that would really make that final level more epic and memorable.

I'm not sure how much more content they're going to add. But I'm excited to play any story DLC that they release.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:26 PM   #862
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i don't see why people are so mad over the ending of it.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:20 PM   #863
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Considering what they did, people sure are persistent in the defense.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:28 PM   #864
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i don't see why people are so mad over the ending of it.
the original ending.. i get peoples frustration. i still think that many overreacted, but i get it. if the writers expected to end it so vaguely without people getting upset and asking a million questions, they were foolish. they saw that frustration and gave us more. it sucks that it happened that way and that part of it was through DLC we had to pay for, but its there nonetheless. i can see still being upset that it happened that way, but that has nothing to do with what the story is now as a result of it. some people are just bitter.
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Old 02-12-2013, 12:21 AM   #865
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Finished the trilogy today and was very disappointed with the ending, never mind. Mass Effect 2 will still be a top game from start to finish if only ME3 didn't fall at the last moment (good up until the end point though) and ME1 was great storywise but I feel they really upped the gameplay in 2 so it just about gets the edge.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:16 PM   #866
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funny thing is, in the conversation with sovereign in ME1 he says... "we impose order on the chaos of organic evolution, you exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it." in basic form, that is exactly what the catalyst explained to us, much better so in the extended cut. they are imposing their order, we dont agree with it, so we try to stop it. its as simple as that. ME2 revealed nothing new about the reapers because for whatever reason shepard abandoned the idea of warning/preparing/making the galaxy realize the reapers are coming to run around with a group that the majority of the galaxy saw as terrorists to save humanity. sooo... what happened to all that "saving the galaxy" stuff? thats not to say it wasnt a very well put together game, but in the end its just a LONG side mission in which certain events and characters having nothing to do with the collectors themselves(the main enemy of the game) just happened to have impact in the following game. in the grand scheme of things, what shepard did in the arrival DLC is more important than anything he/she did involving the collectors.

put simply, the seemingly "out of nowhere" premise of organic evolution and its technological advancement reaching the creation of artificial intelligence causing conflict is NOT a ME3 problem. its a ME1 and ME2 problem. ME1 established the enemy and gave vague and very basic answers for why they were doing this and then ME2 revealed nothing new. it HAD to happen in ME3... or not at all. and considering the enemys level of control and influence over all life in the galaxy, why would they not reveal more to us unless we gave them a reason to?

i dont know about anyone else, but as soon as i found out in ME1 that the enemy was sentient machines my first thought was... "who made them and why?" because machines get created with a purpose. i expected that to be answered simply because "evil machines" for no reason is just plain bad. i always expected to find this information out and when ME2 revealed nothing new about the reapers the first thing i figured was that that would be "the big thing" about the story in ME3.

and as usual, this doesnt negate the fact that our choices and who we recruited didnt have nearly the impact i think we were led to believe they would have. i and im sure many other people, are still waiting for that battle. heres hoping that final DLC turns out to be that.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:22 AM   #867
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funny thing is, in the conversation with sovereign in ME1 he says... "we impose order on the chaos of organic evolution, you exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it." in basic form, that is exactly what the catalyst explained to us, much better so in the extended cut. they are imposing their order, we dont agree with it, so we try to stop it. its as simple as that. ME2 revealed nothing new about the reapers because for whatever reason shepard abandoned the idea of warning/preparing/making the galaxy realize the reapers are coming to run around with a group that the majority of the galaxy saw as terrorists to save humanity. sooo... what happened to all that "saving the galaxy" stuff? thats not to say it wasnt a very well put together game, but in the end its just a LONG side mission in which certain events and characters having nothing to do with the collectors themselves(the main enemy of the game) just happened to have impact in the following game. in the grand scheme of things, what shepard did in the arrival DLC is more important than anything he/she did involving the collectors.

put simply, the seemingly "out of nowhere" premise of organic evolution and its technological advancement reaching the creation of artificial intelligence causing conflict is NOT a ME3 problem. its a ME1 and ME2 problem. ME1 established the enemy and gave vague and very basic answers for why they were doing this and then ME2 revealed nothing new. it HAD to happen in ME3... or not at all. and considering the enemys level of control and influence over all life in the galaxy, why would they not reveal more to us unless we gave them a reason to?

i dont know about anyone else, but as soon as i found out in ME1 that the enemy was sentient machines my first thought was... "who made them and why?" because machines get created with a purpose. i expected that to be answered simply because "evil machines" for no reason is just plain bad. i always expected to find this information out and when ME2 revealed nothing new about the reapers the first thing i figured was that that would be "the big thing" about the story in ME3.

and as usual, this doesnt negate the fact that our choices and who we recruited didnt have nearly the impact i think we were led to believe they would have. i and im sure many other people, are still waiting for that battle. heres hoping that final DLC turns out to be that.
How can you say that ME2 didn't reveal anything new about the Reapers? It's in ME2 that we find out how the Reapers are made. We also discover that the Protheans weren't eradicated in their entirety. They were converted into the Collectors. This showed us how the Reapers chose to preserve certain races to use as workers and ground troops when they weren't deemed worthy of being converted into Reaper form. Admittedly we knew that the Reapers did this to humans in ME1 in the form of husks. But we didn't learn the true extent of this until ME2. We never thought they did this on a galactic scale with an entire race.

And Shepard honestly did what he could with the situation he was in at the time. The Alliance and the Council refused to do anything about the Reapers. Cerberus were the only ones offering to step up. Not to mention the fact that they resurrected him. So it only makes sense that you would work with them for a time. And ME2 introduced a lot of really cool new characters. It set up the plot of the next game quite well. That's what the part 2 installment in a trilogy is meant to do.

I really enjoyed ME2 personally. But everyone's different. So it's fine that you didn't.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:51 AM   #868
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How can you say that ME2 didn't reveal anything new about the Reapers? It's in ME2 that we find out how the Reapers are made. We also discover that the Protheans weren't eradicated in their entirety. They were converted into the Collectors. This showed us how the Reapers chose to preserve certain races to use as workers and ground troops when they weren't deemed worthy of being converted into Reaper form. Admittedly we knew that the Reapers did this to humans in ME1 in the form of husks. But we didn't learn the true extent of this until ME2. We never thought they did this on a galactic scale with an entire race.

And Shepard honestly did what he could with the situation he was in at the time. The Alliance and the Council refused to do anything about the Reapers. Cerberus were the only ones offering to step up. Not to mention the fact that they resurrected him. So it only makes sense that you would work with them for a time. And ME2 introduced a lot of really cool new characters. It set up the plot of the next game quite well. That's what the part 2 installment in a trilogy is meant to do.

I really enjoyed ME2 personally. But everyone's different. So it's fine that you didn't.

dont get me wrong, i found it very enjoyable and think its a very well put together game. great individual character stories and new characters in general. i dont hate it by any means and ive played it as much as i have played ME1 and ME3. it just doesnt advance the story at all. the protheans being collectors is cool to know but means nothing in the grand scheme of things. and how the reapers are made is cool as well, but is completely irrelevant in regards to why they are doing what they are doing. its just odd that the idea of preparing the galaxy and making them realize the reapers are coming is put on hold to help terrorists save humanity. again, the human harvesting sucks for humanity but is insignificant in comparison to the whole galaxy. you are right, the alliance and council did refuse to do anything about the reapers. and in ME2 shepard did as well for a little while because he decided to go after the collectors instead. the collectors may have been controlled by a reaper but again, remote colonies of ONE race are insignificant compared to the whole galaxy. it feels kind of like a waste of time. like rather than trying to unite the races DURING the invasion in ME3, we should have done it BEFORE the invasion. like there should have been a renegade interrupt to steal the normandy from TIM the first chance we had, find something to prove the reapers are coming and go to the council/alliance. if i could do what i really wanted to do, thats what i would have done because it made NO sense to me to waste time worrying about remote colonies for ONE species, even if it is my species.

in the end all we did was stop the collectors from harvesting remote human colonies. harvesting for an unknown purpose at that. a singular reaper harvesting ONE race ahead of the actual invasion is something that should be explained, and we didnt get that. and then to top it off, we get a DLC that has us delay the reapers again. something that is far more important than helping remote human colonies.

ME2 is also probably why people adopted the idea of using hope to gain victory. ME2 kind of crammed the whole "defeating impossible odds" thing down our throats yet the collectors are nothing in comparison to the reapers themselves. that victory is no real comparison to the actual reaper threat. like i said in that earlier post, the reapers are hundred million year old technology and we are 50k year old technology. we are cavemen throwing spears at tanks in comparison. not to mention that they are responsible for our very existence. ME2 made people think they could defeat tanks with spears and now people are upset that they cant despite that the story suggested this is how things were in the very first game.

ME2 seems to be the fan favorite and as far as the story goes involving the reapers it is the least important. so i guess i shouldnt be surprised that as many people hate the ending as they do. ME2 didnt reveal anythinh new of significance and it didnt require any thinking on the players part when it comes to the enemy. most people were just stopping the bad guys because the game told them to. ME2 is the black sheep of the series when it comes to the actual story. but again, that doesnt go to say that it isnt a very well put together black sheep that is fun as hell to ride. what it reveals about the geth alone makes it worth playing in my opinion.
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:21 AM   #869
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^I completely agree, I said the same thing before ME3 released and it's even truer now that it has been. Mass Effect 2 is a fantastic standalone story, but it contributed nothing to the trilogy.

First and foremost, it disregards the events of Mass Effect. Shepard spent the first game trying to convince the Council that the Reapers were a real threat, then in the final battle they're forced to acknowledge this. We move forward with the Reaper threat in mind. Fast forward to ME2 and the council is once again completely denying the Reapers and we're back to square one. Complete bull.

Then perhaps the most interesting aspect about Mass Effect 2, working with Cerberus, was completely tossed by Mass Effect 3. In Mass Effect 2 you learn that perhaps Cerberus isn't actually evil and they turn out to be quite likable. Then ME3 comes around to say "Just kidding!" It makes no sense. This isn't ME2's fault mind you, but it still squashes its importance to the trilogy.

And lastly there's the Collector threat, which was so small scale compared to the Reapers. Like edge said, stopping the abduction of a few colonies didn't do anything in the grand scheme of things, unlike stopping Sovereign did in ME1 or destroying the Mass Relay in Arrival. Even something that could have played a huge role, the Collector Base, ended up having zero impact.

Sure ME2 answered a few questions, but raised a whole lot more, and most of the potentially significant events were discarded by ME3.
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:09 AM   #870
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^ its the same scenario with the individual endings themselves. people took that idea from ME2 and ran with it. people took one thing from a part of the story that has virtually nothing to do with the real enemy, turned into this big "theme" and applied it to the entire story.

because of overcoming impossible odds in ME2/uniting the galaxy in ME3, unless refusing the catalysts choices gains a conventional victory in which shepard lives, many say the ending is terrible. but it was ok to not worry about that in ME2 to run around with terrorists for some reason. that is the definition of contradictory.

because saren(who was indoctrinated) wanted to become a reaper in ME1 that means that synthesis and control means to become a reaper. an indoctrinated person.

for the most part people are attempting to devolve the story into stopping the bad guys because they are "the enemy" and ignoring other aspects of the story. in the end they want destroy without any negative consequences. with destroy the death of the geth and EDI is seen as tacked on negative consequences for no reason by many people. so the crucible is "space magic"... yet those same people now want it to specifically target the reapers? it being the way it is now where its basically a lethal EMP is WAY less "magical" and than it targeting a specific species.

people want to jump to the worst case scenario for anything that isnt destroying the reapers and until that becomes a possibility, nothing else will suffice. this is how the indoctrination theory developed and it shows the level of thought people are putting into it. and thats not to say that indoctrination wouldnt have been an awesome plot device had it been revealed and resolved all before the end. but for it to be the end to the story in a way that leaves it so the reapers are evil machines and we never find out why? thats just ridiculous.

personally i am glad the story didnt devolve to machines that are evil "just because", something worthy of michael bay. it really shows how much thought people are putting into it and how much people took from what the story told us in the first game. the enemy being machines dictated a lot about this without it having to be outright stated. to each his own i guess. this game always seemed to be more than those typical stories. i feel like if anyone was expecting that they were only fooling themselves.
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