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Old 07-05-2012, 09:17 AM   #1
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This Game Is Frustrating

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike this game. I actually really enjoy it for the most part, reminds me of games like Goonies from the original NES. But for the love of god, one life? You die once and you start from the beginning?

I'm not talking beginning of the level, you start at the beginning of the game. You make it to level 2-2, you die once, you lose everything. You restart at 1-1. It's already given me plenty of moments where I wanted to break my controller and i've had it for one day.

Oh, and f**k ghosts too.

Good luck to everyone that tries the achievement for beating the game in 8 minutes without shortcuts. I'm not even going to attempt it.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:49 AM   #2
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Or yo finally came to 2-1 (after dying right befoe the gate in 1-4 several times) only to get complete darkness on that level.

When do you get shortcuts?
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:00 AM   #3
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I'm not entirely sure, I haven't ran into any yet. The randomization is a blessing and a curse at the same time, it leaves so much variety and replayability but eliminates the ability to memorize and strategize. I've been blowing off the maidens altogether until I get a better feel for the game, it seems like an unnecessary obstacle during the early learning stages and I more want to progress and see what other levels the game has to offer.

It's kept me playing for a good part of the day so far, but I had to step away from it for a bit before I started hating it.
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:56 AM   #4
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I've got a shortcut right now; you need to reach the end of Mine three times to give to the miner what he needs to realize the shortcut: a bomb, a rope and 10.000 gold for the work. The third time the shortcut become avaible directly from the main room, on the right next to the trial room


EDIT: I agree with Mabus, the ranzomization is a blessing and a curse because sometime there are points that aren't playable without taking damage..
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:06 AM   #5
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You unlock the first shortcut after you give the explorer at the end of the mines 3 things: rope, bombs and a certain amount of gold (mine was 10,000), you can only give him one set per time (first time you see him it's two bombs, next time it's two rope and finally gold) meaning you must reach the end of the mines 3 times with the required amounts. After these requirements are met you can access the shortcut by using the left ladder in the entrance where you drop down from the rope. You will know when it's unlocked as there is an avatar award for unlocking the first one, I'm presuming it's the same process of helping the explorer open shortcuts later on. Hope this helps
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:17 AM   #6
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The fear of death adds a lot of tension and excitement.
It's frustrating at first but without it the game would become boring very quickly.
You're forced to pay attention and come up with strategies while playing.
I've died more than 200 times and still have not beaten the game (the last world really is a pain in the ass).

Btw, a note on shortcuts (from the pc version of the game, however):

Reaching a new "world" (for example the jungle) for the SECOND time will make a miner appear during the transition. He will ask for money and paying him will allow him to build a shortcut to that world. You don't have to pay all of it at once.

I did not yet play the XBLA version, so I can't verify it's the same for the XBLA version.

Edit: So the shortcuts are more or less unlocked the same way but with different materials and slightly more playthroughs. Sounds like a reasonable change to me.

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Old 07-05-2012, 11:44 AM   #7
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Yeah, the unlocking works a bit differently than the PC version.
For the first shortcut, he asks for 1 bomb, 1 rope, then 10,000 gold.
For the second shortcut, the tunnel guy asks for 2 bombs, 2 ropes, and then a shotgun. (You can get it from shopkeepers or blowing up a grave marked "ASH" )
For the third shortcut, the tunnel guy asks for 3 bombs, 3 ropes, and then ... you have to bring him the Gold Key, which is only found in one Mines level. Yep, you'll have to start from the beginning and carry the Key all the way to 4-1. Nothing in this game comes easy.
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:32 PM   #8
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Totally in agreement with this, the game is lots of fun and the randomiser of the levels adds incredibly to the replay ability but fuck me it can be annoying, you survive one terror only to be pounced on by another or worse still when you need one bomb to gather a treasure, enter the black market, save a damsel etc but can't find one anywhere lol.
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Old 07-05-2012, 02:57 PM   #9
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I think the game is flawed. Its a nice idea for a freeware PC game but to pay £10 and get fucked over by the game making the levels completely random is a bit crap if you ask me.

Giving it another go but at the minute its the worse 1200 point purchase ive made on the xbox.
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Old 07-05-2012, 03:50 PM   #10
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I think the game is flawed. Its a nice idea for a freeware PC game but to pay £10 and get fucked over by the game making the levels completely random is a bit crap if you ask me.

Giving it another go but at the minute its the worse 1200 point purchase ive made on the xbox.
Really? I love the randomly generated nature of Spelunky. The game would get boring as hell if you can always breeze through the same levels.
This can be real nightmare for completionists tho - for the speed run in this game not only you should be super skilled, but also have a lot of luck in this run. As others mentioned above, XBLA version is much harder than freeware one.

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Old 07-05-2012, 04:19 PM   #11
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Really? I love the randomly generated nature of Spelunky. The game would get boring as hell if you can always breeze through the same levels.
This can be real nightmare for completionists tho - for the speed run in this game not only you should be super skilled, but also have a lot of luck in this run. As others mentioned above, XBLA version is much harder than freeware one.

btw What's the best way to kill shopkeepers? How many shots from shotgun they take?
Well the 360 comparison I make is Super Meat Boy

Both 1200 points, both frustrating platformers, both with a ton of short levels. The difference is while Spelunky is completely random SMB has 100 odd set levels where you know what's coming so you can practice and learn.

I just think for £10 its quite a let down.
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:44 PM   #12
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I love the game but the randomization really could've used some more lenient and thought-out rules. Like maybe don't put a trap right in front of the shop so it's impossible to enter - that's just mean and not fun! Maybe don't generate damsels 10 blocks deep so it's a massive waste to rescue them. Or how about not generating the entrance to the black market in the ceiling so it's impossible to reach without sticky bombs, while not generating any giant spiders (which give you sticky bombs) on previous levels.

Stuff like that could've been put in there to make the game fun without making it any less challenging. It's just demotivating and boring to get far and run into some shit like the above and having to start over, meaning the past 20 minutes just ended up being a pointless waste of time. Since the levels are random, that previous attempt isn't even good for practice!

The original version of the game had the excuse of being made in Game Maker, which probably doesn't give the creator enough power over the randomization, but this version was re-coded from the ground up and does not get the same free pass... Like I said, I do enjoy the game but it's hard not to sigh and give up when you're put into an impossible situation at the end of a good run.

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Old 07-05-2012, 10:43 PM   #13
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Well, this game is not for everyone. Addictive as hell though.
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:17 PM   #14
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I love the game but the randomization really could've used some more lenient and thought-out rules. Like maybe don't put a trap right in front of the shop so it's impossible to enter - that's just mean and not fun! Maybe don't generate damsels 10 blocks deep so it's a massive waste to rescue them. Or how about not generating the entrance to the black market in the ceiling so it's impossible to reach without sticky bombs, while not generating any giant spiders (which give you sticky bombs) on previous levels.

Stuff like that could've been put in there to make the game fun without making it any less challenging. It's just demotivating and boring to get far and run into some shit like the above and having to start over, meaning the past 20 minutes just ended up being a pointless waste of time. Since the levels are random, that previous attempt isn't even good for practice!

The original version of the game had the excuse of being made in Game Maker, which probably doesn't give the creator enough power over the randomization, but this version was re-coded from the ground up and does not get the same free pass... Like I said, I do enjoy the game but it's hard not to sigh and give up when you're put into an impossible situation at the end of a good run.
Been keeping an eye on this game, but this sort of thing really puts me off.
Give me difficulty fine, but just plain messed up like that is not good for my stress levels!
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:03 AM   #15
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I don't agree, Drog. There's almost always a way to get through a tricky setup; usually if you end up stuck it's because you wasted your resources earlier. Some levels are harder than others; you have to learn to deal with it. The runs I mess up vastly outnumber the ones where the randomness made it impossible.

(Oh, and if a maiden takes too many resources to rescue... don't rescue her, and try to get hit less. :P)
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Old 07-06-2012, 07:17 AM   #16
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I don't agree, Drog. There's almost always a way to get through a tricky setup; usually if you end up stuck it's because you wasted your resources earlier. Some levels are harder than others; you have to learn to deal with it. The runs I mess up vastly outnumber the ones where the randomness made it impossible.

(Oh, and if a maiden takes too many resources to rescue... don't rescue her, and try to get hit less. :P)
I'm not complaining about it being too hard, I'm saying it's demotivating when the game creates shitty situations, which it inavoidably does constantly. I mean:



That's level 1-1, and that's the entrance to the level on the right. That's just crappy!

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Old 07-06-2012, 08:57 AM   #17
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That's level 1-1, and that's the entrance to the level on the right. That's just crappy!
lol, I've had a damsel spawn dead before.
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:16 AM   #18
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I'm starting to think this game isn't marketed right. It's not a platformer with randomly generated levels, it's a roguelike with platforming gameplay. Yeah, sometimes the game is going to create annoying or even downright unwinnable situations, but if you find something annoying you can ignore it and if you find something unwinnable you could probably have gotten out of it if you had collected the right supplies beforehand. The game is as much about luck and forethought as it is about skill and reflexes, if not more. If you're getting frustrated with it, you're either approaching it wrong, or playing for too long at a time.

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I'm not complaining about it being too hard, I'm saying it's demotivating when the game creates shitty situations, which it inavoidably does constantly. I mean:



That's level 1-1, and that's the entrance to the level on the right. That's just crappy!
Why? If it's 1-1 and you just started the run, a single missed damsel shouldn't matter much. And even so, it's probably not impossible to get her out. I'll bet a giant spider spawned somewhere on that map that you could get some paste from. Or a shop you could buy/steal some from. Toss a rope up there and stick a bomb underneath her.


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lol, I've had a damsel spawn dead before.
Er, no you didn't. You had a damsel spawn in a bad situation, and she died before you found her. Semantics, I guess, but still.
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:39 AM   #19
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Er, no you didn't. You had a damsel spawn in a bad situation, and she died before you found her. Semantics, I guess, but still.
I know, but it's pretty much the same thing. Spawning next to a Tiki Trap = spawning dead.
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:44 AM   #20
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I'm starting to think this game isn't marketed right. It's not a platformer with randomly generated levels, it's a roguelike with platforming gameplay.
It is being marketed as a platforming roguelike. And, by the way, the only cart that's ever been in my DSi (which I bought when it came out) is Shiren the Wanderer, so I am well aware of what Spelunky is.

(Granted, I haven't actually booted that DSi in well over a year... I should, still didn't get to that final bonus dungeon.)

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Yeah, sometimes the game is going to create annoying or even downright unwinnable situations, but if you find something annoying you can ignore it and if you find something unwinnable you could probably have gotten out of it if you had collected the right supplies beforehand. The game is as much about luck and forethought as it is about skill and reflexes, if not more. If you're getting frustrated with it, you're either approaching it wrong, or playing for too long at a time.
But that's my entire point. Let's be honest and fair and not overblow the "forethought" aspect here - it simply translates to "try to stock up on as many bombs and ropes as you can and, hey, if you find a jetpack that's pretty sweet too." That's really it for strategy for this game and since it's not very hard to figure out, I've obviously been using it since I started playing the game.

My point is that the game often does not give you the option to have foresight, since it'll spawn equipment boxes deep within walls or will give you either no shops or shops full of ropes when you'd much rather have even a small bomb sack.

Like I've been saying, it's just boring when you get to the Jungle with $80k, a jetpack and a shotgun...but 0 bombs. 0 bombs because the game generated arrow traps with no rocks/vases/skulls nearby, forcing you to sacrifice a bomb or 2 life, for example. So it turns out that I just wasted 15 minutes on that run and I'm not a huge fan of games pointlessly wasting my time.

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Why? If it's 1-1 and you just started the run, a single missed damsel shouldn't matter much. And even so, it's probably not impossible to get her out. I'll bet a giant spider spawned somewhere on that map that you could get some paste from. Or a shop you could buy/steal some from. Toss a rope up there and stick a bomb underneath her.
Come on, that's BS and you know it. My entire point is that, no, there is absolutely no guarantee that the game generated a way for you to get sticky bombs in order to save this damsel. There is no "probably" about it; the best the game offers is "maybe" and that's what I'm saying is boring. What I'm saying is that if the game behaved like you just said it does, I'd be fine with it, but it doesn't.

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Old 07-06-2012, 11:19 AM   #21
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But that's my entire point. Let's be honest and fair and not overblow the "forethought" aspect here
Well, sure, but at the same time consider that the situation you were showing had almost no bearing on anything. Who cares that you can't save that damsel? One point of health is very rarely going to make a significant difference (though, to be fair, not never).

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0 bombs because the game generated arrow traps with no rocks/vases/skulls nearby, forcing you to sacrifice a bomb or 2 life, for example.
Anecdotal, but I've never had this happen to me. I've wasted nearby pots/skulls only to realize I needed them for this, but never actually had none be there. Not to say it can't happen, though.

And while I'm sure you know this, you can use a rope to set them off as well. If you're still in the mines or early jungle and you're out of both ropes AND bombs, you fucked up somewhere, or you had literally the worst possible luck. It's silly to act like a situation that happens very rarely is the norm.

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So it turns out that I just wasted 15 minutes on that run and I'm not a huge fan of games pointlessly wasting my time.
Why are you playing the game if a run where you end up dying is considered "pointless" and "wasted time?" If you only think it's worthwhile to win or get a high score, you're probably playing the wrong game. If dying that early on is what's bothering you about it, use the shortcuts?

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Come on, that's BS and you know it. My entire point is that, no, there is absolutely no guarantee that the game generated a way for you to get sticky bombs in order to save this damsel. There is no "probably" about it; the best the game offers is "maybe" and that's what I'm saying is boring. What I'm saying is that if the game behaved like you just said it does, I'd be fine with it, but it doesn't.
It's probably, because there's like an 80% chance of a giant spider spawning in a mines level. And again, if there's no way to get her, what's the big deal anyway? You don't need her.


I'm not saying that the game can't dick you around, of course it can. I'm saying that doesn't make it a bad game. If it bothers you a lot, then it's just not the game for you. "Boring" is probably the last word I'd use to describe Spelunky. It's the nature of random levels that sometimes you're going to get boned by them. The game wouldn't be anywhere near as interesting if it had static levels.
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Old 07-06-2012, 11:49 AM   #22
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Well, sure, but at the same time consider that the situation you were showing had almost no bearing on anything. Who cares that you can't save that damsel? One point of health is very rarely going to make a significant difference (though, to be fair, not never).
I'm not talking about the picture and that situation alone, that would be shallow and stupid. I took the picture because it perfectly encapsulates what I don't like about the randomization.

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Why are you playing the game if a run where you end up dying is considered "pointless" and "wasted time?" If you only think it's worthwhile to win or get a high score, you're probably playing the wrong game. If dying that early on is what's bothering you about it, use the shortcuts?
I don't even understand what you mean by this comment. Are you aware of what site you're posting on? I'm looking to get achievements, so yeah, runs that end in stupid situations are a waste of time.

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I'm not saying that the game can't dick you around, of course it can. I'm saying that doesn't make it a bad game. If it bothers you a lot, then it's just not the game for you. "Boring" is probably the last word I'd use to describe Spelunky. It's the nature of random levels that sometimes you're going to get boned by them. The game wouldn't be anywhere near as interesting if it had static levels.
I'm not saying that it's bad either; I clarified twice in my original post that I like it.

But my point is that game programming is not some kind of magic and it's not like the game magicians can only conjure static or random levels. When they program the randomization, they can set rules to it, which they obviously have in Spelunky. Otherwise it would generate completely impossible situations like spawning you next to a spike trap and such. I'm saying they could've put more work into the randomization to have the game work with us as players a little more than it does now.

There is a clear difference between high difficulty and just dicking us around, as you say, and I'd prefer it if this game stayed firmly on the side of just being difficult, but it has one foot in difficult territory and one foot in dicking territory and I'm not a fan of that type of game design.
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:43 PM   #23
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I've only had a few instances where I truly, justifiably felt dicked around by the game. (One was a City of Gold run where a crocman got hit by a magma man and teleported INTO me, fragging me!)

Honestly, you just need to get better. And you won't unless you realize that most of your deaths are Your Fault. (Especially in the Mines...)

The game gives you so many tools, it's ridiculous. I keep learning new ways to handle tough situations. For instance, to get past an arrow trap, you can throw literally ANYTHING, including rats, chests, crates, and even whipping gold into it. And, of course, you can fall past it safely if you're about 3-4 squares away.
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:13 PM   #24
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I can say that I was almost able to reach the City of Gold, but things went out of hand in the Temple. I did have a Shotgun, Cape, Compass, you name it. I couldn't find any Scepter-holding enemies in the early Temple area, either the Scepter didn't drop when killing them or it fell off somewhere, like lava or something. I went all the way to buy the Ankh for 50,000 gold too until that run got ruined in the level. ^^;

But on a brighter side, I have no problems getting the key and chest, and then collecting the Ankh and reaching the Moai head in Ice Caves, I've done that countless time by now. It's just that some enemies likes to disrupt the environment (like disturbing the Kali statue and the Shopkeepers) so that I get chased around by the Shopkeepers for not doing anything lol. xD

I'm not sure if I should keep focusing on that run again or if I should go for a different one (or just decide to hunt the Shopkeepers instead lol). :3
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Old 07-06-2012, 10:10 PM   #25
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Sometimes this game does screw you over... this is me carrying the gold key from the mines to the end of the Ice Caves. I was just about through the Jungle when death cheated me.

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Old 07-06-2012, 11:35 PM   #26
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I can say that I was almost able to reach the City of Gold, but things went out of hand in the Temple. I did have a Shotgun, Cape, Compass, you name it. I couldn't find any Scepter-holding enemies in the early Temple area, either the Scepter didn't drop when killing them or it fell off somewhere, like lava or something. I went all the way to buy the Ankh for 50,000 gold too until that run got ruined in the level. ^^;
The Scepter is dropped by the unique Anubis enemy in 4-1 (NOT Mummies like in the PC version). He's the jackal-headed god flying around shooting pink rings at you.

By the way, I don't recommend using the Scepter as a weapon. It's unbelievably risky, since the pink rings can double back and instakill you with no warning.
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:54 AM   #27
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Yay I reached City of Gold~ (TA profile update!) ^u^

But aw the dilemma... no bombs lol. XD
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:52 PM   #28
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Just spotted this on the leaderboard:



Now that would be frustrating.
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Old 07-07-2012, 06:23 PM   #29
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The game can be frustrating at times but I think the randomly generated level design cuts down on it for me alot. I think the game is an instant classic and while not exactly as high on the list as Braid or Limbo, very close. The only thing I don't care for is the levels that spawn you in the dark, those really suck. Alot of games do this and I just find it annoying. I thought it was the one stupid part about Limbo also, wandering through the caves in search of those eggs. What's so fun about my screen being black and me dying because I can't see anything? I wouldn't take either game down for it because it's a small part, I just don't like it.
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Old 07-08-2012, 01:00 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DROGTURIST View Post
Like I've been saying, it's just boring when you get to the Jungle with $80k, a jetpack and a shotgun...but 0 bombs. 0 bombs because the game generated arrow traps with no rocks/vases/skulls nearby, forcing you to sacrifice a bomb or 2 life, for example. So it turns out that I just wasted 15 minutes on that run and I'm not a huge fan of games pointlessly wasting my time.
I just wanted to point out you can whip arrows from arrow-traps mid flight?
It takes a lot of skill and a little bit of luck but if your timing is good you don't need to sacrifice bombs OR health in that situation.
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