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Old 08-21-2012, 11:25 AM   #1
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Well done,you've just lost a sale here high moon...

Check out the marketplace, disgusting.i mean come on the games not even out here in the uk until Friday. I was looking forward to this then u add all that dlc which I bet is all on disc already. Stuff you I ain't buying now.what a crap way to treat people.
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Old 08-21-2012, 11:34 AM   #2
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Jepp, annoys me too. And yes, it's disc locked content. But I don't blame High Moon, they did an awesome Job the first time with WfC and handled the DLC very well. So this crappy thing that goes on on the Marketplace right now is all about ACTV.

But I am buying this game and mostly I will buy the Havoc Pack also. I mean, Magnus is in there... and Wheeljack!!!
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Old 08-21-2012, 11:59 AM   #3
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Except for the Havoc Pack, it all seems cosmetic. I don't mind that. Lots of companies are experimenting with microtransactions, if you don't like that, vote with your wallet.
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Old 08-21-2012, 12:37 PM   #4
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Stop bitching about disk content already! It's never going to end.
They have to put it on the disk so they don't have to patch the hell out of it so everyone can see all the DLC stuff in MP.

You don't like the DLC stuff, then don't buy it. Don't push away a solid game due to your hate for something every game publisher is doing and won't end.
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Old 08-21-2012, 12:46 PM   #5
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I dont see anything wrong with any of the dlc. It looks like all cosmetic and not to no advantage any what. Alot of it is for you avatar. This is the new wave for games. Day one dlc and we need to get use to it. I will be buying the havoc pac for some of the cool charaters.
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Old 08-21-2012, 01:04 PM   #6
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Stop bitching about disk content already! It's never going to end.
They have to put it on the disk so they don't have to patch the hell out of it so everyone can see all the DLC stuff in MP.

You don't like the DLC stuff, then don't buy it. Don't push away a solid game due to your hate for something every game publisher is doing and won't end.
This 100% ^^^

Like really people, get a grip.
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Old 08-21-2012, 01:12 PM   #7
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Stop bitching about disk content already! It's never going to end.
They have to put it on the disk so they don't have to patch the hell out of it so everyone can see all the DLC stuff in MP.

You don't like the DLC stuff, then don't buy it. Don't push away a solid game due to your hate for something every game publisher is doing and won't end.
Totally agree with you on this one. This DLC is WAY different than what Epic did with Gears 3. High Moon is a quality studio and I am looking forward to the game.
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:27 PM   #8
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If you are blindly going to accept this sort of Day 1 DLC tat, of course they are going to keep doing and it will get worse. Next time it will more than just cosmetic skins etc. EA found out people would buy cheats because some passive aggressive fanboys would jump to their aid
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:48 PM   #9
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Well done TC you made yourself out to be a whiner. Don't want it, don't by it simple as that. I've never bought dlc, even story, but you don't see me complaining about it.
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:57 PM   #10
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If you don't want it, don't buy it, simple. I'm not buying any of it bc I pre ordered an got optimus prime, but it kinda sucks bc I don't like the destroyer class, I wish optimus would have been the Titan class
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:11 AM   #11
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Not buying a great game because they give you option to buy leg armor (that does nothing) on day one?

Good riddance. One less whiner in the community.
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Old 08-22-2012, 04:04 AM   #12
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for the DLC stuff, if it gives you some sort of advantage (and you're now behind due to regional street dates) I can understand. But if it's consmetic or crap like that, who cares. I heard about all the bitching in REACH about different armors, yet they give NO advantage. There's no race to get 1000/1000 or max out a character. If a DLC does give you a touch of the upper hand, you have to just deal with it and eitehr get it yourself when you can, or just tough it out.
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Old 08-22-2012, 04:31 AM   #13
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Don't buy the DLC then. Problem solved
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Old 08-22-2012, 04:33 AM   #14
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Stop bitching about disk content already! It's never going to end.
They have to put it on the disk so they don't have to patch the hell out of it so everyone can see all the DLC stuff in MP.

You don't like the DLC stuff, then don't buy it. Don't push away a solid game due to your hate for something every game publisher is doing and won't end.
I understand how having DLC on a disc can make things much easier for everyone (just look at Mortal Kombat) - but on disc DLC brings up the question of what exactly should be 'DLC' and why are we paying for content that is available before the main game even comes out.

Traditionally DLC started as 'extra content' released by developers after the core game is created. Now with games coming with DLC straight away it makes me wonder why we are paying extra for content already on the disc, what justifies this exactly.

I don't like suddenly paying extra to be piece fed games, and I don't think we should just roll over and accept publishers and developers over charging us. The patching thing is a convenient diversion from the bigger issue.

e.g. Back in the day unlocking new custom skins used to be a cool bonus feature. Now it is almost always something you have to pay for.

I agree where you said not to block a game just because of DLC, that is silly. Buy and enjoy the game, but show Acti you don't support the DLC by not buying the DLC.

Anyway as has been mentioned, vote with your wallets. I haven't looked in to the Transformers DLC specifically so that was just a general rant. Also yes these DLC tactics here are most certainly Acti's doing :P
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Old 08-22-2012, 04:43 AM   #15
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I understand how having DLC on a disc can make things much easier for everyone (just look at Mortal Kombat) - but on disc DLC brings up the question of what exactly should be 'DLC' and why are we paying for content that is available before the main game even comes out.

Traditionally DLC started as 'extra content' released by developers after the core game is created. Now with games coming with DLC straight away it makes me wonder why we are paying extra for content already on the disc, what justifies this exactly.
DLC can be completed after a game has gone gold but before the game has come out, you do realize that right?

As for disc locked content, some DLC goes into development and IS finished before the game comes out, so they put it onto the disc. Guess what? That content wasn't budgeted with the game. If they choose to release it free of charge, that's cool, but no one is entitled to the content that was made outside the scope of the original product.

People seem to think that everything thats built before a game releases is budgeted all under the same umbrella. but that's not how business works. You have X manpower and X dollars to complete a project, and that project has set monetary expectations. No one complains when DLC is released after the fact but its exactly the same. Dev's have splinter teams move on after their contribution to the main game is done, but the new teams have different timelines, costs, and resource allotment, and thus have a separate cost structure. That is what "justifies" Day 1 DLC.
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Old 08-22-2012, 04:53 AM   #16
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DLC can be completed after a game has gone gold but before the game has come out, you do realize that right?
Sure, but I'd consider that an uncommon exception

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People seem to think that everything thats built before a game releases is budgeted all under the same umbrella. but that's not how business works. You have X manpower and X dollars to complete a project, and that project has set monetary expectations. No one complains when DLC is released after the fact but its exactly the same. Dev's have splinter teams move on after their contribution to the main game is done, but the new teams have different timelines, costs, and resource allotment, and thus have a separate cost structure. That is what "justifies" Day 1 DLC.
So what is the budget on a handful of different coloured skins? How much effort and development is there in a bunch of colour palette swaps?

You do have points but I think they are rare situations that don't disprove my point of us now being charged for content that was originally expected to be included in games.

I would bring up the case of Batman: Arkham City. It genuinely feels like they made a game, then just took the Catwoman chunks out and charged extra for it. Whether they had a whole separate "Catwoman" budget and development cycle doesn't really change the fact that for me it felt like I had to pay extra for what felt like part of the core game/story.

Asura's Wrath you had to pay for a proper ending =/

I'm not saying everyone does DLC bad, I'm just saying we shouldn't blindly accept everything that is thrown at us.
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Old 08-22-2012, 05:49 AM   #17
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Sure, but I'd consider that an uncommon exception



So what is the budget on a handful of different coloured skins? How much effort and development is there in a bunch of colour palette swaps?

You do have points but I think they are rare situations that don't disprove my point of us now being charged for content that was originally expected to be included in games.

I would bring up the case of Batman: Arkham City. It genuinely feels like they made a game, then just took the Catwoman chunks out and charged extra for it. Whether they had a whole separate "Catwoman" budget and development cycle doesn't really change the fact that for me it felt like I had to pay extra for what felt like part of the core game/story.

Asura's Wrath you had to pay for a proper ending =/

I'm not saying everyone does DLC bad, I'm just saying we shouldn't blindly accept everything that is thrown at us.
Fighting game DLC for palette swaps dont make sense to me, as I hate fighting games, but they do take time and effort to make those palettes, even if its not much time/effort. They probably also do testing to determine what new costumes look the best, so there's a lot of hidden costs there.

Online passes I generally agree with, but some games do butcher the idea. Batman:AC is a good example of this. Another issue is passes expiring, such as the case with NFS:Hot Pursuit I believe, which doesn't matter as much because its EA, who closes down servers for games which are rife with MP achievements sometimes within a year of a game coming out (LOTR Conquest, I'm looking at you). Why doesn't EA just let MS host the games like everyone else and still have running servers for 7 years even in dead games like Perfect Dark:Zero? No one knows, and that angers me more than online passes. (Online pass + server shutdown is a kick in the face)

Online passes are probably going away though, as its a better revenue source to offer microtransactions in the MP and allow everyone access to the MP to buy them than put a gate on the MP. (Its awful how much I spent on ME3's system before I felt like I had what I wanted.)

Paying for endings is a mistake that Japanese studios tend to make (except PoP 2008's "Epilogue"), like FFXIII-2 and Asura's Wrath. Its clearly stupid, but Japanese dev's really don't seem to get DLC the way western devs do.
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Old 08-22-2012, 06:38 AM   #18
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Simple solution to the whining and debating: DON'T PUT DLC DATA ON THE DISC!!

Day one DLC wouldn't be a problem if it weren't on the disc to begin with. That's where people feel entitled to something that may or may not have been in the original budget and/or development process, because they paid for the disc and it is on the disc.

Considering how small most downloads are, the "convenience" of putting it on the disc and only paying for an unlock code is NOT the best argument companies have come up with. Yes, some people have slow internet connections but about 1/3 of the day is spent unconscious, which makes for excellent download time.

They should be honest and say, "It was developed after the game was finished, and is an additional project warranting more money. We chose to put it on the disc to allow easier access." That would be respectable.

I'm going to get the game, but will avoid the "DLC" unless it's extremely cheap or they add extra cheevos for future DLC, which is pretty much my policy for all games these days.
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Old 08-22-2012, 06:49 AM   #19
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downloadable, unlockable,, doesn't make much difference to me. either option is better than what capcom does, releasing "super" or "ultimate" editions with content that should have been added to the original. having both versions, like mvc3 and umvc3, on your profile does kinda say "sucker". in any case, i'll be purchasing any kind of extra content they release for this game.

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Old 08-22-2012, 12:36 PM   #20
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Xavier0080 gets it.
DLC on disk is just easier for everyone. Us and them.
Cheaper for them to release an unlock code than have a ton of people eating up their servers downloading good size chunks of data. Us because is saves us HD space, time not downloading, and bandwidth use.

The online pass this is a kick in the teeth, but I see where they where coming from on that one. Trying to cut down on used gaming market, i.e. Gamestop. Same thing with B:AC. You got Catwoman in the game if you bought it new. Hell, I got Robin in mine from Best Buy. That again was them trying to cut out used gaming.
Thing that gets me with that is they want to kill the used gaming market, yet give GS all the best pre-order DLC.

DLC codes should never expire. Some of us buy games and sit on them for a while before playing. Playstation is horrible with this. Yeah, their MP is free, but buy an older game with a DLC code and it useless.
I picked up GOTY Uncharted 2 and Helghast edition Killzone 3 for cheap after they had been out, DLC codes dead. Called PS, they don't care.

BTW: Only 2 chapters into FoC, and it's AWESOME!
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:34 PM   #21
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I don't know why everyone seems OK with this, just because they have created an awesome game shouldn't mean they can do this, its four skins that were clearly already finished when the game went gold, as you can see them in game without downloading the DLC.

When I noticed the marketplace littered with the stuff yesterday i thought it was all just early access, but when I looked at the in game menu I saw a DLC for 800M$P, and when I looked at it, it was to unlock four skins.

I wouldn't normally have too much of an issue with this but the price is ridiculous, it works out at 200M$P a skin. TBH if they were half the price they are I would see it as acceptable, I wouldn't be happy about it but it would be acceptable.
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:58 PM   #22
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I don't know why everyone seems OK with this, just because they have created an awesome game shouldn't mean they can do this, its four skins that were clearly already finished when the game went gold, as you can see them in game without downloading the DLC.

When I noticed the marketplace littered with the stuff yesterday i thought it was all just early access, but when I looked at the in game menu I saw a DLC for 800M$P, and when I looked at it, it was to unlock four skins.

I wouldn't normally have too much of an issue with this but the price is ridiculous, it works out at 200M$P a skin. TBH if they were half the price they are I would see it as acceptable, I wouldn't be happy about it but it would be acceptable.

People are OK with it because its useless filler content. And as explained above, just because its on the disc doesn't mean it was created with the main game's budget. Doesn't mean it wasn't either, but again, its a skin.

Personally, I think 100M$P a skin is too much (for this game), so I won't be buying it even at half price. Different people place different values on money. Look at the Borderlands 2 nonsense. I have no problem spending $150 on a CE of the game, but who in their right mind would pay $400-500 for it? Apparently a lot of people >_>

In fact, remember the Transformers: WFC nonsense? I had a friend sell his dlc code from Amazon for $120 o_O ya know, the one that came out as dlc 1 month later. Apparently, $120 was an acceptable price to pay for an escalation only character 1 month early to someone out there.....
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Old 08-22-2012, 03:01 PM   #23
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You don't like the DLC stuff, then don't buy it. Don't push away a solid game due to your hate for something every game publisher is doing and won't end.
That's the beauty of DLC...it's all optional.
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Old 08-22-2012, 03:06 PM   #24
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The DLC was released Tuesday. You get the game later this week. It's not Day 1 DLC for you, because you didn't buy the game the day it was released.

The whining about Day 1 DLC is invalidated the very next day after a game's release. You could buy this game next year and that DLC and more will be available, yet you wouldn't complain about when that DLC was released.
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Old 08-22-2012, 05:51 PM   #25
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Online passes I generally agree with, but some games do butcher the idea. Batman:AC is a good example of this. Another issue is passes expiring, such as the case with NFS:Hot Pursuit I believe, which doesn't matter as much because its EA, who closes down servers for games which are rife with MP achievements sometimes within a year of a game coming out (LOTR Conquest, I'm looking at you). Why doesn't EA just let MS host the games like everyone else and still have running servers for 7 years even in dead games like Perfect Dark:Zero? No one knows, and that angers me more than online passes. (Online pass + server shutdown is a kick in the face)
As people have said (like little sheep), DON'T BUY IT THEN!!!!111111111. I wish retailers and publishers would sort out a deal to get rid of the online pass

RE4 had a lot of replay value due to unlockable extras but these unlockables in modern games are "day 1 dlc". Then the game devs and publisher "whine" like gamers (they hate so much) that their game is now sold as second hand on ebay/amazon/game etc Boo hoo, you can't have it both ways
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Old 08-22-2012, 07:01 PM   #26
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Everybody bitches about Activision but they're one of the only ones left who haven't implemented the online pass bullshit. I agree that the character packs/skins are overpriced but if I was a big Transformers fan I would have no problem picking them up. Besides they'll probably be half off by the holiday season, when nobody is buying/playing this anymore because all the bigger games come out.
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Old 08-23-2012, 12:12 AM   #27
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i never cease to be amazed by the rage that people feel over dlc in all it's forms. it's for entertainment purposes guys. what do you expect? i understand the need to be thrifty these days, and i'm not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination, but i've managed to purchase every add-on for every game on my profile. i'll continue to do so too, because i enjoy collecting and having the content (might be a slight bit of obsessive-compulsion too). i also pay for overpriced snacks at the movie theater, and don't think i'm "ruining" anything for anyone by doing so
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Old 08-23-2012, 12:16 AM   #28
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Everybody bitches about Activision but they're one of the only ones left who haven't implemented the online pass bullshit. I agree that the character packs/skins are overpriced but if I was a big Transformers fan I would have no problem picking them up. Besides they'll probably be half off by the holiday season, when nobody is buying/playing this anymore because all the bigger games come out.
You don't have to implement an online pass when 12+ million sheep every year flock to your game that is a 75% rehash of last years, not to mention the 9-10 million people subbing to WoW every month. They aren't in bad shape at all and don't need extra money, but of course they also don't take risks like EA does even though they can afford it. Just have 5-6 studios work on Call of Duty.
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:32 AM   #29
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You don't have to implement an online pass when 12+ million sheep every year flock to your game that is a 75% rehash of last years, not to mention the 9-10 million people subbing to WoW every month. They aren't in bad shape at all and don't need extra money, but of course they also don't take risks like EA does even though they can afford it. Just have 5-6 studios work on Call of Duty.
I draw the line in having a debate over which of these two companies is the greater evil. Nothing worthwhile could possibly come from this conversation.
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:41 AM   #30
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I draw the line in having a debate over which of these two companies is the greater evil. Nothing worthwhile could possibly come from this conversation.
Neither company is evil. Activision takes good games and rams them into the ground year after year, and forces 6 studios to make the same game for eternity. Also...

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featur...n-lawsuit.aspx

Thats how they do business with their lead moneymakers.

EA had a problem doing this back in the day, and people are just holding over a grudge from around the late nineties to the middle 00's. EA makes great games and they take risks (Mirror's Edge, Dead Space, Syndicate), whereas Activision doesn't make games unless they can "annualize" them (their word, and the reason they dropped Ghostbusters before Atari picked it up.)

People do seem to forget that these are large publicly traded companies, so yes they are in it to make money. They aren't going to give things out for free when you can charge for it. Buy games new and support the devs and then 95% of peoples problems with the companies go away.
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