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Old 02-15-2013, 05:39 AM   #1
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Do I just suck or is this game unbalanced?

I've recently gone back to multiplayer and I get my shit pushed in like there is no tomorrow. Maybe I'll get any where from 5 to 15 kills but I die double that every match
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:30 AM   #2
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Maybe a little bit of both? This game is notorious for catering to the more casual crowds. Features like Ordinance make map control pointless and even if you have a power weapon, chances are other people have the same thing. So getting owned on this game is more of a actuality than past titles.

At the same time, though, I don't think I regularly go negative in my K/D. While I don't generally care about my K/D and I'm not what one would consider a top player, I do manage to hold my own. I have my bad days like today where I just get my ass handed to me and I'm bottom of my team and I have days where I'm VIP of the match and carry my entire team to a dominating victory.

Either way, I generally don't get worse than -2 or -3 K/D spread, so if you're hurting that bad in your matches you should try getting to know the best uses for the different weapons and know the maps for their hot zones, good cover locations, and places for ambushes. Learn some different tips about the game (like for instance, you should always go for the body shot until their shield is out. No matter where you shoot an enemy, their shields will always take the same amount of damage. Also know that crouching when you walk hides you from enemy radar and allows you to play more stealthily.)

My best recommendation is Campaign. Play it on Legendary. Hell, play it with the skulls turned on. And play S-Ops on Legendary too. It's not quite the same element as multiplayer, but elements like finding cover, avoiding enemy fire, ambush techniques, etc... can all translate from the Campaign to the multiplayer experience. If you can beat the game on Legendary or Mythic, you'll fare much better online.
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:54 AM   #3
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My best recommendation is Campaign. Play it on Legendary. Hell, play it with the skulls turned on. And play S-Ops on Legendary too. It's not quite the same element as multiplayer, but elements like finding cover, avoiding enemy fire, ambush techniques, etc... can all translate from the Campaign to the multiplayer experience. If you can beat the game on Legendary or Mythic, you'll fare much better online.
Playing campaign and multiplayer are two entirely different experiences. Campaign teaches you to take everything slow and methodically while shooting at enemies that aren't using an real tactics against you. Multiplayer requires you to think and act very quickly while you shoot at enemies that are trying to out-think and out-move you.

Campaign skills just don't transition into multiplayer skills beyond the basics. The stuff you said about learning map layouts and how to use the different weapons is solid advice.

To the OP, the game is unbalanced, but not in a way that would make you have a .5 KDR. You just gotta remember that the kills times in Halo are much longer than other games, the weapons all have their own strengths and weaknesses that you have to learn, and you really need teamwork to do well.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:56 AM   #4
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The way you described how you've been playing has always been like that for me with any Call of Duty title. My KDR is negative in them but it's positive in Halo.

I'd say give it practice, try out different game modes. I've found SWAT to be great practice for aiming in the head and gives you a little edge of being quick on the trigger for casual slayer in 1v1 stand offs.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:28 AM   #5
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I've recently gone back to multiplayer and I get my shit pushed in like there is no tomorrow. Maybe I'll get any where from 5 to 15 kills but I die double that every match
Depends. Also firstly the game is unbalanced in more ways than one but the games full of campers so not doing well isn't always going to be your fault.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:06 AM   #6
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I constantly run the DMR and that's it basically. Is only get mowed down with power weapons so I've come to the fact that its just unbalanced. But Team SWAT seemed to make me feel like I played a lot better.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:59 PM   #7
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Playing campaign and multiplayer are two entirely different experiences. Campaign teaches you to take everything slow and methodically while shooting at enemies that aren't using an real tactics against you. Multiplayer requires you to think and act very quickly while you shoot at enemies that are trying to out-think and out-move you.

Campaign skills just don't transition into multiplayer skills beyond the basics. The stuff you said about learning map layouts and how to use the different weapons is solid advice.

To the OP, the game is unbalanced, but not in a way that would make you have a .5 KDR. You just gotta remember that the kills times in Halo are much longer than other games, the weapons all have their own strengths and weaknesses that you have to learn, and you really need teamwork to do well.
I don't think he was implying that campaign will teach map-specific or gamemode-specific tactics. Ambush tactics and knowing how to find cover quickly when shot at are part of the basics, along with getting better at shot placement, shot timing, grenade throw angles, etc. You're right in that it's the basics that translate over from campaign and S.ops into MP, but the thing is the basics are probably the most important thing.

Knowing map layouts, hot zones, etc doesn't amount to a hill of beans if you can't put your shots on target while on the move. I played the crap out of firefight in Halo Reach, and I can say with 100% certainty that my skill in multiplayer benefited from it.
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:31 PM   #8
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I just started playing again and haven't had too much trouble yet, in fact it's better now than it was.
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:36 PM   #9
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I see you changed your name. I like it.

Anyways, Dark, too long of a response for the OP to read.

In short, the game isn't that unbalanced. You may just need to keep playing in order to get better.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:15 PM   #10
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Aww snap. Looking green, feeling green.

And Creech gave me awards too wooaahhhhh so much change I can believe in
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:52 PM   #11
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Aww snap. Looking green, feeling green.

And Creech gave me awards too wooaahhhhh so much change I can believe in
I'm feeling the urge to sub this week to get access to those special forums and be a big green boy. Those awards look sexy as hell.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:53 PM   #12
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:06 PM   #13
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:33 PM   #14
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Depends. Also firstly the game is unbalanced in more ways than one but the games full of campers so not doing well isn't always going to be your fault.
This. On Ragnarok yesterday camper with SAW and camo, sniper/dmr with protective shield. God damn annoying.
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:30 AM   #15
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The game's fairly unbalanced in my opinion. I only ever play SWAT now, and even that is broken by the fact that most, if not all of the players I went up against used the Battle Rifle, spamming bullets in your general direction. Some of the open maps lead to some unfair distance advantages, especially in Complex and Harvest (I don't care what happens to me, but if there's a SWAT match on Complex, Harvest or Abandon, I'm dashboarding as I do not like those maps on SWAT). As much as I love Halo, I do not like what 343 has done to the multiplayer. Halo Reach's multiplayer is better than this. If 343 stuck with what was right with Reach, maybe multiplayer would be better. As it is though, they messed with stuff that wasn't broken and added stuff that is.
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:05 PM   #16
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the weapons seem to be very unbalanced. DMR is by far the best in most opinions. For me, crouching wins games.
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:14 PM   #17
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the weapons seem to be very unbalanced. DMR is by far the best in most opinions. For me, crouching wins games.
I actually find the weapons pretty well balanced (Pocket Shotgun doesn't count though).
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:08 PM   #18
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Only thing about this game that really makes me mad is the camo snipers! I always rage when they kill me lol
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:53 PM   #19
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The game's fairly unbalanced in my opinion. I only ever play SWAT now, and even that is broken by the fact that most, if not all of the players I went up against used the Battle Rifle, spamming bullets in your general direction. Some of the open maps lead to some unfair distance advantages, especially in Complex and Harvest (I don't care what happens to me, but if there's a SWAT match on Complex, Harvest or Abandon, I'm dashboarding as I do not like those maps on SWAT). As much as I love Halo, I do not like what 343 has done to the multiplayer. Halo Reach's multiplayer is better than this. If 343 stuck with what was right with Reach, maybe multiplayer would be better. As it is though, they messed with stuff that wasn't broken and added stuff that is.
Spamming the BR in SWAT? You make it sound like that wasn't present in any previous Halo. OP, the game is probably one of the most balanced Halo's I've had the pleasure of playing. Maybe it's the map designs that are throwing you off? They've always seemed a bit odd to me aside from the symmetrical maps. Also, the DMR is a bit overpowered and Promethean vision, depending on who you ask. But I'd argue to the death that Halo 4's better in terms of balance than Reach or even Halo 3 to an extent.
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:21 AM   #20
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But I'd argue to the death that Halo 4's better in terms of balance than Reach or even Halo 3 to an extent.
This is really cute.

Lemme just throw out a few things that I want you to explain how they're balanced:

Instant respawns resulting in people spawning in sightlines of the person who killed them before their shield can even recharge

Boltshot secondary fire existing at all and then having further OSK range than the scattershot or shotgun and basically trivializing the sword and hammer and outright eliminating melee combat

The incineration cannon and binary rifle in general

Every grenade type doing a pitiful amount of damage making only plasma grenades useful

The DMR outclasses every starting weapon at basically every range

Personal ordinance drops making it a crapshoot as to whether you're going to get an additional 5 kills or none at all

Map ordinance in general and how it can make objective games favor one team by having power weapons spawn in their base

These were the big points I could up with off the top of my head. Take you're time in getting back to me.
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:00 AM   #21
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Not my post, but I can take a crack at a few of these:

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Instant respawns resulting in people spawning in sightlines of the person who killed them before their shield can even recharge
Got me on that one. It's pretty infrequent, but when it happens it sucks (unless you're the one that gets the revenge kill.

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Boltshot secondary fire existing at all and then having further OSK range than the scattershot or shotgun and basically trivializing the sword and hammer and outright eliminating melee combat
This thing definitely needs to be toned down or removed from loadouts. Hell, why do we need another pistol? They should change it to be a burst-fire weapon like the 93R. Similar in function to the BR's burst-fire, but more machine-pistol based (something the series has yet to include in it's weapon repertoire) and not actually a precision weapon (so no headshots with it. Hell, or they could just make it a SMG since they took ours away after ODST. Bastards...)

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The incineration cannon and binary rifle in general
Binary Rifle has a giant red beam on the front and if anybody actually gets hit by that thing, they're a fucking moron and deserve the death. As for Incineration cannon, it's got a single shot between reload and only comes with 3/4 shots. No different than any other rocket launcher in the game (Reload could be a bit slower, but I honestly don't have any issues with its presence other than being a clone weapon. I would rather see it stay and they remove the PoS Fuel Rod Cannon.)

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Every grenade type doing a pitiful amount of damage making only plasma grenades useful
This is definitely agreed. Plazzies and Frags were both WAY to weak in this game. Frags need a bigger blast radius and damage counter (I'd like to see some Shrapnel damage) and Plazzies (since they stick) are fine as they are, but I would like to see maybe an EMP effect of some sort against vehicles when they're stuck or practically right next to one (instead of Plasma Pistol. That way people are limited on the number of EMPs they can actually get off against a vehicle per life. Plasma Pistol battery lasts too long for vehicle use to be practical.)

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The DMR outclasses every starting weapon at basically every range
So how is this any different than Halo 2/Halo 3 BR starts, Halo CE Pistol starts, and Halo Reach DMR starts? Everybody starts out equal and it's all dependent on skill. Everybody has the option to start with the DMR in H4 and if it's the best weapon than people are going to use it. Myself personally, I find the Battle Rifle to be far superior (which is ironic since I hated the BR in H2/H3 and loved the DMR in Reach) and regularly find myself ougunning DMR users with my BR, Light Rifle and my pistol.

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Personal ordinance drops making it a crapshoot as to whether you're going to get an additional 5 kills or none at all
Never had too much of an issue with personal ordinance, but I see why people dislike and I would prefer another ordinance system like I discussed in another topic. At the very least they should take away the 3-choice system and just give players a random ordinance drop upon being called. This would cut back on the power weapon issue I think. More people would be ending up with concussion rifles and needlers (I think they should also include loadout weapons in the drops just to make the randomization formula more unpredictable. Plus it would be nice actually having ammo for my Light Rifle once in a while since I never find other players using it.)

Quote:
Map ordinance in general and how it can make objective games favor one team by having power weapons spawn in their base
Anything one can have, the other can have as well, so I personally ignore people when they complain about this. Besides that, being good at earning points and unlocking ordinance more frequently is effectively the same thing as controlling power weapon spawns. Holing your team up and dominating the enemy generally gives you the upper-hand in both scenarios and a good team is going to get ordinance more frequently and when the enemy gets a weapon your team should still be able to hold them off with superior firepower and numbers.


I'm finding the largest complaints are the result of playing with randoms that you can't communicate with and have no coordination with. And when I play with randoms, I find myself being miserable and bored after 3 or 4 games. As is true with every Halo title, it's infinitely more enjoyable when you have a party entirely consisting of people you know. Knowing your teammates and how they play and being able to strategize with them makes the experience infinitely more enjoyable and your matches go infinitely smoother. That's why I have a dedicated group of 4 that I play with regularly and I don't have issues with any of the things people generally complain about.
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:15 AM   #22
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Binary Rifle has a giant red beam on the front and if anybody actually gets hit by that thing, they're a fucking moron and deserve the death.
The whole problem with it is that on bigger maps, you can easily zoom in with another gun to see where someone is, then just get them with the binary rifle before they can see it coming. My issue with the binary rifle isn't that it's an OSK weapon, it's that it's a long range, perfect accuracy OSK weapon anywhere on the body.

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As for Incineration cannon, it's got a single shot between reload and only comes with 3/4 shots. No different than any other rocket launcher in the game (Reload could be a bit slower, but I honestly don't have any issues with its presence other than being a clone weapon. I would rather see it stay and they remove the PoS Fuel Rod Cannon.)
The issues with it is that you can just shoot it basically anywhere and if you miss, odds are you'll get the person with the split-fire.

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So how is this any different than Halo 2/Halo 3 BR starts, Halo CE Pistol starts, and Halo Reach DMR starts? Everybody starts out equal and it's all dependent on skill. Everybody has the option to start with the DMR in H4 and if it's the best weapon than people are going to use it. Myself personally, I find the Battle Rifle to be far superior (which is ironic since I hated the BR in H2/H3 and loved the DMR in Reach) and regularly find myself ougunning DMR users with my BR, Light Rifle and my pistol.
As I was typing it, I thought about this and the reason I kept it as a point was because the guy was saying the game was more balanced than Halo 3 and if he could explain this one, I'd be at a loss. I didn't expect anything other than the answer you gave tbh.

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At the very least they should take away the 3-choice system and just give players a random ordinance drop upon being called. This would cut back on the power weapon issue I think. More people would be ending up with concussion rifles and needlers (I think they should also include loadout weapons in the drops just to make the randomization formula more unpredictable. Plus it would be nice actually having ammo for my Light Rifle once in a while since I never find other players using it.)
This all sounds horrible and somehow wore than what we currently have!

Quote:
Anything one can have, the other can have as well, so I personally ignore people when they complain about this. Besides that, being good at earning points and unlocking ordinance more frequently is effectively the same thing as controlling power weapon spawns. Holing your team up and dominating the enemy generally gives you the upper-hand in both scenarios and a good team is going to get ordinance more frequently and when the enemy gets a weapon your team should still be able to hold them off with superior firepower and numbers.
Unless you're playing objective where one team is typically controlling one area at a time. This is really prevalent in CTF on Adrift. No one ever tries to capture the flag, and they are rewarded with power weapons. Nice.

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I'm finding the largest complaints are the result of playing with randoms that you can't communicate with and have no coordination with. And when I play with randoms, I find myself being miserable and bored after 3 or 4 games. As is true with every Halo title, it's infinitely more enjoyable when you have a party entirely consisting of people you know. Knowing your teammates and how they play and being able to strategize with them makes the experience infinitely more enjoyable and your matches go infinitely smoother. That's why I have a dedicated group of 4 that I play with regularly and I don't have issues with any of the things people generally complain about.
I have people I used to play with too, but even as a group, the game stopped being fun very quickly and now no one plays the game at all. Some nights I'll get a text to play Halo, I'll get on with a couple of friends, and within three games we end up either signing off or going to something else. The game just isn't fun for me and everyone I know.
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:55 AM   #23
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I have people I used to play with too, but even as a group, the game stopped being fun very quickly and now no one plays the game at all. Some nights I'll get a text to play Halo, I'll get on with a couple of friends, and within three games we end up either signing off or going to something else. The game just isn't fun for me and everyone I know.
This, this, this! Me and my friends used to play the hell outta 2, 3, and Reach. Now when we play Halo 4 (once or twice a night every 2-3 weeks), it gets boring after a half hour. I know how ya feel.
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:12 AM   #24
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The whole problem with it is that on bigger maps, you can easily zoom in with another gun to see where someone is, then just get them with the binary rifle before they can see it coming. My issue with the binary rifle isn't that it's an OSK weapon, it's that it's a long range, perfect accuracy OSK weapon anywhere on the body.
I still don't see this as being an issue since it requires a good deal of accuracy and skill. A more talented player won't have a problem with this, but to transition between, say, a BR and the Binary Rifle is that the target is typically in motion, meaning even if you've spotted and lined up the shot, after switching weapons you still need to readjust with the binary rifle. This is, again, where I find the BR (hmm... needs different initials) isn't an overpowered weapon.


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The issues with it is that you can just shoot it basically anywhere and if you miss, odds are you'll get the person with the split-fire.
I'll give you this, though I personally feel it's a severe waste of the Incineration Cannon. Given the split-shot it puts out, I almost NEVER use it to take out singular targets. Since it covers such a wide area, I personally feel it's a success against the user when he only takes out a single person with each shot since it's the perfect weapon for getting double or triple kills. Even destroying vehicles seems like a better option unless you're in a situation where you're absolutely going to die and need to take the shot. Again, somewhat overpowered and I agree it could do with being toned down, but given it's capabilities I feel it's extremely under-utilized.


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As I was typing it, I thought about this and the reason I kept it as a point was because the guy was saying the game was more balanced than Halo 3 and if he could explain this one, I'd be at a loss. I didn't expect anything other than the answer you gave tbh.
I figured you were aiming for that point moreso the the point of the DMR itself. Spawn weapons have been a point of debate since Halo 1, so I didn't really feel like it was a necessary argument. I primarily posted it just because it was included in the original post. I will agree with you, however, that Halo 3, as much I didn't like the multiplayer (or most of the game in general) was more balanced than Halo 4. Armor Loadouts in general unbalance the game, although I still personally feel the differences are so minor that the argument is negligible and it still boils down to player skill over loadouts themselves, the exception being a couple cheap tactics like Camo/Boltshot camping.

The Halo series itself has been a hodge-podge of lucky kills since Halo 2 IMO. Halo 1 I remember being able to take on 2 or 3 people at a time and still having situations where I could win, but Halo 2 and onward I'm very rarely able to survive 1v2 encounters. This is, I think, due to the Health Bar system and the fact that Halo: CE wasn't centered around precision weapons and the pistol (the one primary precision weapon) was rarely the spawn weapon in any gametype. It was almost always the Plasma Pistol or Assault Rifle. This made pre-encounter preparation important to the game and encounters were much more extensive than the quick skirmishes that defined the later games. This is all in my opinion though.


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This all sounds horrible and somehow wore than what we currently have!


Unless you're playing objective where one team is typically controlling one area at a time. This is really prevalent in CTF on Adrift. No one ever tries to capture the flag, and they are rewarded with power weapons. Nice.
Unfortunately, I don't have access to game development tools and I can't sit around testing different methods of gameplay features, so most of what I discuss is theoretical and rough design. That said, what I see and what I describe generally come out in two different manners. It's difficult to portray what I envision without actually showing it, but the best way to describe what Halo needs is Reach's Invasion ordinance, but in a more organized manner. The above-mentioned ordinance idea is merely an attempt at taking the current system we have and making it a bit less overpowered. It would suck having less control over the weapons, but at least it would make controlling the maps less problematic. I still think the personal ordinance should be removed in favor of team-ordinance and on-map weapons in the long run (a patch that 343 could easily implement within a couple months if they chose to do so. They could even keep Ordinance Slayer as a separate playlist for people that do enjoy it.

And unfortunately, as sad as it is, I've now put more time into Halo 4 Matchmaking than I have Halo 2 Matchmaking, Halo 3, and Halo: Reach combined. Halo 2 I spent all of my time in custom games and Halo 3 and Reach I almost never touched multiplayer (I bought Halo 3 at Launch, but discovered I only played 3 or 4 matchmaking games before 2009.) Looking back, I guess I really never have enjoyed Halo's multiplayer at all. As much as I've bashed the series for keeping multiplayer instead of dropping it for a stronger Campaign experience, I've never actually acknowledged the fact that I just don't like it. Strange to realize that after 8 years...)

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Old 02-18-2013, 06:28 AM   #25
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I've recently gone back to multiplayer and I get my shit pushed in like there is no tomorrow. Maybe I'll get any where from 5 to 15 kills but I die double that every match

It seems alot of inbreeders play this game; I just started playing today,Big Team Slayer,the first match was fun then the retards came out! When the second game started I jumped in one of our Mechs immediatley my own team started firing and spamming grenades at me,the second mech I had,some idiot was shooting me with the Warthog rail gun.the third game my team allowed the enemy get a hold of our ordinances so you can guess how that ended. Grrrrrr. You can't fix stupid!!
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:03 AM   #26
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Halo 4 has serious balance issues. This is the main problem. As I see (after 814 wargame matches) you can play the game two way. Use different weapons, try to match your equipment to your environment (like in previous Halos) and LOSE or equip the best loadout and WIN.

As someone posted before the DMR + Boltshot loadout owns ANYTHING in almost every situation. Basically picking up any weapon except shotguns or snipers (one shot weapons, one for short and long range) is POINTLESS and only will kill you. I don't even understand the logic behind the Boltshot. It removes the pressure game entirely (if you damage and force someone to run he'll just turn around and waits for you in the next corner) and beats the shotgun at the SAME range. Yeah if you use the Boltshot you only have one chance and you can't kill more than one opponent but who cares? It is a 90% sure kill if you turn around (so it's equal ponts from a loosing situation). AND if you magically survive (help arrives, lucky grenade / beat down etc) you made more points than the enemy who played better than you.

Same with armor options, unless you use Promethean vision or Jetpack (I saw 4 holograms used pretty effectively too) you will die.

Sorry this was more like a rant.
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:07 PM   #27
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Pfft, lot of moaners in here, I went 20-4 last night on Longbow (scene of my PB 30-2). Game before that went 16-7, not bad but not amazing, I very rarely get a negative K/D and this is the first Halo game I've played a decent amount of MP

Halo 4 MP is feckin awseome!

That being said, I think if you don't run with the DMR you're putting yourself at a serious disadvantage.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:37 PM   #28
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Pfft, lot of moaners in here, I went 20-4 last night on Longbow (scene of my PB 30-2). Game before that went 16-7, not bad but not amazing, I very rarely get a negative K/D and this is the first Halo game I've played a decent amount of MP

Halo 4 MP is feckin awseome!

That being said, I think if you don't run with the DMR you're putting yourself at a serious disadvantage.
So wait, you're calling people in this thread (about the MP being unbalanced) moaners , yet admit yourself that a player is at a "serious disadvantage" if they don't start with a particular gun? The irony.

But I suppose you're speaking from experience; perhaps you went 16-7 and 20-4 by camping/ordinance whoring in BTB/Dominion with DMR as your starter -- perhaps against opponents who spawned with Storm Rifles or BR's. A hearty congratulations to you.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:39 PM   #29
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Pfft, lot of moaners in here, I went 20-4 last night on Longbow (scene of my PB 30-2). Game before that went 16-7, not bad but not amazing, I very rarely get a negative K/D and this is the first Halo game I've played a decent amount of MP...
Are you...bragging...?
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:46 PM   #30
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Are you...bragging...?
It would appear so, yet says if you don't use DMR you're fucked.
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