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Old 04-29-2013, 08:45 AM   #1
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Tournament Feedback Thread

If you participated in the April Ambassador tournament and have some ideas or thoughts about it how we could make it better, please post them here. We will learn from our mistakes and constructive feedback is always welcome!

Remember this was our first time ever to attempt this kind of tournament so based on that it went quite smoothly in my opinion.

One big thing I would take in consideration next time is to write the rules more clearly. Especially the fact that players are not forced to play a certain game. They can discuss about the game they play with their opponent. The game chosen by judge(s) is only a suggestion from your listed games.

Also the list of games for the tournament should not be changed after the tournament has started. There's some situations where you might have to remove one or two games but the players should inform the judge(s) about this beforehand.

I had fun, hopefully you had too! Feel free to post now!
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:33 AM   #2
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I think all in all it went pretty well. I agree that rules and stuff should be more clear but I enjoyed each round I played. Despite being the only competitor than lost twice
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:11 AM   #3
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The first thing I would like to mention is what Corrupt said already. With the rules being more clear and all. Here is some old ideas I had from the other thread and some new ones:




*Participation reward. (Image with a "thumbs up" in the background with the text "Nice Try" in the foreground. Another idea do what StayonTarget said and give out awards based on how many tournaments you've entered. People like shiny awards!


*People can donate prizes so that more people might enter. Maybe even give out an award for prize donators? People always want prizes, trust me on this.


*Have a Minecraft Hunger Games tournament.


*People must have a minimum amount of arcade and retail games. (Maybe 5 for both categories.)


*Maybe have a "point system" for wins and losses? For each win a person gets "5" points and each lose only "1" point. After a certain amount of rounds the top 3 people with the most points win. This way no one get eliminated and an actual rank will be giving to people.


*Have a raffle after a tournament with a random person (who didn't get in top 3) can get a consolation prize.

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Old 04-29-2013, 01:34 PM   #4
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These are some rules I think should be added:

*once the tournament starts no games can be removed from your game list. That thread should be locked so no one tries to edit it.

*if you put a game on your list then it's your responsibility to ensure you have the game on hand should it get picked. If a game gets picked and you don't have it, your opponent is unwilling to change the game, and you aren't willing to go get another copy then it's an automatic disqualification.

*your opponent is not obligated to change the game. If a game is picked and only one person wants to change it then that's th game that gets played. Remember a game can only get picked if you put it on your tournament list, so if you aren't confident playing that game then simply don't include it in the list.
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Old 04-29-2013, 01:44 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by UnarmedReaper07 View Post
T
*People must have a minimum amound of arcade and retail games. (Maybe 5 for both categories.)
I was going to suggest something like this as well. Not sure about 5 arcade but 5 retail for sure. Something like MW2, Halo (insert # here), Forza 3, and two others. That way we won't be stuck with DCC as often. This could be a horrible idea but this thread is for bouncing ideas around.
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Old 04-29-2013, 05:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
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The first thing I would like to mention is what Corrupt said already. With the rules being more clear and all. Here is some old ideas I had from the other thread and some new ones:




*Participation reward. (Image with a "thumbs up" in the background with the text "Nice Try" in the foreground. Another idea do what StayonTarget said and give out awards based on how many tournaments you've entered. People like shiny awards!


*Have a raffle after a tournament with a random person (who didn't get in top 3) can get a consolation prize.
Disagree with both of these, Awards should be given for achieving something, earning an award for just participating is against the purpose of achievement.

Raffles are decent, but it's down to luck, again, no sense of achievement.

Dak brings up many points I also agree with.
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Old 04-29-2013, 08:00 PM   #7
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Something for the losers to do! I lost the very first round and have had nothing to do since it. I've just been sitting idly waiting for the tournament to end.
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Old 04-29-2013, 08:28 PM   #8
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- limit to how many games can be entered

-make the rules more clear


Basically what everyone else is saying.
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Old 04-29-2013, 08:29 PM   #9
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Something for the losers to do! I lost the very first round and have had nothing to do since it. I've just been sitting idly waiting for the tournament to end.


Exactly! It's not fun losing in the first round and then doing nothing. Not my definition of "fun".


*I don't like the word "losers". I prefer "people who didn't win."

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Old 04-29-2013, 11:46 PM   #10
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Honestly for our first tournament....you guys did a good job. I'm sure things will get better with time.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:47 PM   #11
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Damn it Jakez you can't monopolize the award industry.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:58 PM   #12
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I'm with Dakky boy, no changing your games list is probably my biggest suggestion.

I think there should be a losers bracket next time too
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Old 04-30-2013, 01:21 AM   #13
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No using the word "loser", it's against the law. (lol) It also hurts other people's feelings.
That's loser talk, more games for the losers and a chance for the biggest loser to win an award for losing

But in all seriousness, I think having a set number of games to enter is a good idea.

Other than that, I personally think this tournament went well, although I would like to see a variety in tournaments so that it isn't always an elimination or 1v1 style event.

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YES I CAN, MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Ok, I can't, but that's the way I personally feel about it.
*Looks at Jakez profile* 6 awards? ohh that's so cute
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:08 AM   #14
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I think the tournament went very well! Most of the things I was going to suggest were already said by other people like not changing the list of games and having a certain amount of games that are able to be played.

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*Participation reward. (Image with a "thumbs up" in the background with the text "Nice Try" in the foreground. Another idea do what StayonTarget said and give out awards based on how many tournaments you've entered. People like shiny awards!

*Have a raffle after a tournament with a random person (who didn't get in top 3) can get a consolation prize.
I agree with Jake on these being a bad idea. There haven't been any type of participation award for any type of tournament on the site in the past, and I don't see why they should start to be given out now. I think that the awards should only be given to the winners; having exclusive awards for the tournaments help them be more competitive. I think the raffle is a bad idea for similar reasons, plus it seems too random. Maybe raffles can somehow be incorporated into something else (like a giveaway for example), but I don't think they belong in tournaments at all.

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*Maybe have a "point system" for wins and losses? For each win a person gets "5" points and each lose only "1" point. After a certain amount of rounds the top 3 people with the most points win. This way no one get eliminated and an actual rank will be giving to people.
This point helped give me an idea that could possibly be used in a future tournament! The idea I came up with go is kind of based off of lives in video games. It could be called something like "One Life Remaining" or something like that.
  • Everyone that signs up starts with three lives
  • Matches would be one on one and be similar to how the matches for this tournament were
  • Opponents are given randomly each round by a random generator (no brackets)
  • If a person loses a match, they lose a life!
  • When someone loses all three of their lives, they are eliminated from the tournament
  • The winner will be the person who still has a life (or lives) remaining after everyone else has no more lives left

I'm sorry if that is a horrible idea or if this isn't the right place for it, but I wanted to share my idea. n.n;
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:48 AM   #15
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I never participate.
Not a big surprise for a guy whose club is "Alone I play"

I think the tournament went pretty well considering the fact that we all have different time zones, and it's not always easy to set up matches.

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The idea I came up with go is kind of based off of lives in video games. It could be called something like "One Life Remaining" or something like that.
  • Everyone that signs up starts with three lives
  • Opponents are given randomly each round by a random generator (no brackets)
  • If a person loses a match, they lose a life!
  • When someone loses all three of their lives, they are eliminated from the tournament
I think this should be implemented for the next tournament.
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Old 04-30-2013, 12:47 PM   #16
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My point idea and Kairi's idea would help people who lose to stay in the tournament and have a fighting chance to get top 3. This would help to improve the fun factor instead of being knocked out and doing nothing for the rest of the tournament. I never liked the whole "1 chance" concept", it's causes people to get too nervous and causes stress. If you lose once, then it's not the end of the world. You would either get "1 point", or you would just lose "1 life". With my tournament idea a person will get multiple chances of earning points to get top place. Also, a player will get an actual rank. (You can't tell your rank during this tournament that well unless your in the top 4.) With Kairi's idea a person would still have multiple chances to win even if a person lost and would still have two more lives.

I think both ideas are great. Plus I wouldn't mind if both ideas were used in the future.
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:30 PM   #17
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I never participate. In fact the time few times I tried to get a Gears of War Judgment thing going I was completely ignored and I have been on this site for like 7 years Don't worry about it. It's nothing personal if someone doesn't think your idea will work. Right now there are just too many awards and it's starting to get out of hand in my personal opinion. By the time we have a new award another is already being pitched. We have doubled our awards in one to two month's time. I don't think there should be any award for competitions personally. Only like 10 people seem to care about tournaments so they'd be the only one getting the awards.

So no need to feel secluded, you've already participated in more tournaments than me (I am at 0).
I agree, even though I pitched a number of them myself. In particular I think the staff awards are a bit much... while I like how each award is unique to the member the created the club, it would have been a better idea to give awards for being in 3, 5, 10, etc of the clubs. That way there are less of them, they are harder to earn (adding an element of prestige), and nothing is affected when someone leaves the staff.

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My point idea and Kairi's idea would help people who lose to stay in the tournament and have a fighting chance to get top 3. This would help to improve the fun factor instead of being knocked out and doing nothing for the rest of the tournament. I never liked the whole "1 chance" concept", it's causes people to get too nervous and causes stress. If you lose once, then it's not the end of the world. You would either get "1 point", or you would just lose "1 life". With my tournament idea a person will get multiple chances of earning points to get top place. Also, a player will get an actual rank. (You can't tell your rank during this tournament that well unless your in the top 4.) With Kairi's idea a person would still have multiple chances to win even if a person lost and would still have two more lives.

I think both ideas are great. Plus I wouldn't mind if both ideas were used in the future.
To be honest, I don't see what the issue is; this is exactly how the playoffs in any professional sport works. The number of games they play in a series (typically 7) is analogous to the number of games we play in a round of our tournament, and they only get "1 chance" at each series like we only get "1 chance" at each round.

Also, you shouldn't take it personally when someone disagrees with you.
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:47 PM   #18
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Wow I expected some straight negative feedback, what's this nonsense trying to fix it?

I hated having individual games for each match/round, what a terrible system. Half of Round 1 games were DCC ffs! Clearly there's a problem there, there simply aren't enough common games to validate this system.

Speaking of common games, allowing people to pick their games list was another thing I had a huge problem with. Way to easy to game the system, even with a minimum involved, because a player could either list games they're really confident in, or they could list obscure games and practically force DCC. Either of these has extremely negative repercussions.

Jake for example had an extremely narrow list consisting of fighters and Halo, despite having a much greater library, and got away playing Halo in all rounds except one (which ended up being DCC!). On the other hand, Ceris didn't list many common games either and could have quite possibly beasted through the tourney on his DCC skills alone if he was more available.

Nothing about this tournament format worked, and thus none of it should carry over into the next one.

===
I completely agree with Tyger7 about awards.
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:56 PM   #19
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Wow I expected some straight negative feedback, what's this nonsense trying to fix it?

I hated having individual games for each match/round, what a terrible system. Half of Round 1 games were DCC ffs! Clearly there's a problem there, there simply aren't enough common games to validate this system.

Speaking of common games, allowing people to pick their games list was another thing I had a huge problem with. Way to easy to game the system, even with a minimum involved, because a player could either list games they're really confident in, or they could list obscure games and practically force DCC. Either of these has extremely negative repercussions.

Jake for example had an extremely narrow list consisting of fighters and Halo, despite having a much greater library, and got away playing Halo in all rounds except one (which ended up being DCC!). On the other hand, Ceris didn't list many common games either and could have quite possibly beasted through the tourney on his DCC skills alone if he was more available.

Nothing about this tournament format worked, and thus none of it should carry over into the next one.
This. Even though I was sick during my round, I still got stomped because I listed all my games (the ones I am good in and bad in) and my opponent had a very short list of games (no offense meant here). I honestly had no chance. I could have had a fighting chance in something like Burnout Paradise, but absolutely no chance in Halo 4 against someone who plays often (or NBA 2k9 for that matter. My fiancée beats me in 2k9 and she is terrible at games). The tournament was basically stacked for those that only listed games that they knew they could win with.


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To be honest, I don't see what the issue is; this is exactly how the playoffs in any professional sport works. The number of games they play in a series (typically 7) is analogous to the number of games we play in a round of our tournament, and they only get "1 chance" at each series like we only get "1 chance" at each round.
Sports are completely different. You play a full season of games to earn your potential place in the playoffs. Here, you play a group of games against the same team and whoever comes out on top advances. You don't have one shot. If you have a bad game, you still have a chance in the next game on the next day or whenever game 2 is scheduled. Players in the sports are skilled. They choose what they play. I am terrible at Halo 4. If I had the choice, it would have been one of the last games on my list. Here, you had literally ONE shot at advancing with something that was chosen for you.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:01 PM   #20
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I think there should be some ability to modify the games on the list, but like others have said, contact the judges before hand. Sometimes it doesn't matter (I ended up playing Forza anyeay), but one of my friends wanted to make the most of a Free Gold Weekend, so I loaned hime a few solid online games, because, well, that's what I do. I have a decent sized game collection and I loan it out freely to those who ask (Dak, just send me a message and I'll ship you X-Blades, though the cost of shipping it back is probably greater than the cost of buying a copy for yourself). Not only that, but the ability to add a game would be beneficial. Two months worth of games were released between the posting of the lists and the end of the tournament.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:54 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Veedrock View Post
Wow I expected some straight negative feedback, what's this nonsense trying to fix it?

I hated having individual games for each match/round, what a terrible system. Half of Round 1 games were DCC ffs! Clearly there's a problem there, there simply aren't enough common games to validate this system.

Speaking of common games, allowing people to pick their games list was another thing I had a huge problem with. Way to easy to game the system, even with a minimum involved, because a player could either list games they're really confident in, or they could list obscure games and practically force DCC. Either of these has extremely negative repercussions.
Not everyone has every game in their game list (I mean, I've played a hundred or so games, but like 80% of them are borrowed), people picking their own games is the only valid method. Unless we take the approach I suggested: A tournament on a fixed game

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Originally Posted by Veedrock

Jake for example had an extremely narrow list consisting of fighters and Halo, despite having a much greater library, and got away playing Halo in all rounds except one (which ended up being DCC!).

Nothing about this tournament format worked, and thus none of it should carry over into the next one.
I've recently moved houses, so I only took a select number of games with me, even then, a large library is not equal to a large list of competitive games. It's is why I suggest (as mentioned above) tournaments based on a fixed game. I would have been able to play MVC3 against you veedrock, but you opted for Halo.

I didn't want to vs Corrupt in DCC as I previously vsed him in a practice match and beat him 8-0, hence I didn't want to vs him again, so I wanted Halo 3.

Spade said he'd agree to vs me in Reach after we came to a compromise, with Reach being my crappiest Halo game on my list. He nearly beat me.

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This. Even though I was sick during my round, I still got stomped because I listed all my games (the ones I am good in and bad in) and my opponent had a very short list of games (no offense meant here). I honestly had no chance. I could have had a fighting chance in something like Burnout Paradise, but absolutely no chance in Halo 4 against someone who plays often
2 things, I don't own any racing games, secondly, Halo 4 is not a game I play often, in fact I completed it then I left it there for several months because I was disappointed with the final game. I've recently started playing it due to the new ranking system though (although I've never vsed anyone in Halo 4 after I started playing it again). But I understand your point.

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Not only that, but the ability to add a game would be beneficial. Two months worth of games were released between the posting of the lists and the end of the tournament.
Not many people can afford to buy new games, furthermore, not all new games are competitive when it comes to online.
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Old 04-30-2013, 05:17 PM   #22
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Not many people can afford to buy new games, furthermore, not all new games are competitive when it comes to online.
So? I fail to see how not blocking people from adding a new release (or an older game that they just bought) effects anyone. The opponent still has to have the game on their list in order to play it.
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Old 04-30-2013, 05:27 PM   #23
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Jake I wasn't calling you out by any means, you were just the perfect example of everything that is wrong with the tournament format.
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As a site, we don't support calling it "xbone" as that was a name that was used to refer to the system in a negative light. Since the site exists to support the system, being deliberately negative towards it seems counter productive.

tl;dr - Call it the Xbox One or X1.

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Old 04-30-2013, 06:37 PM   #24
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Must of been nice playing almost all "Halo". I probably would of had a better chance of winning myself. With all this negativity we probably should just do what Tyger said and have no awards at all. Just to add to that maybe take away all other prizes too and maybe tournaments will be fun. (Less stress and it wouldn't matter if you lose.) (At this time people are probably ready with their torches and pitchforks ready to run me out of town.) (lol)
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Old 04-30-2013, 06:37 PM   #25
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Two months worth of games were released between the posting of the lists and the end of the tournament.
I was addressing this point, your idea is good. My point was that just because games are released it doesn't mean much.
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:01 PM   #26
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I'm just going to randomly throw it out there that after reading the latest posts, I completely agree with everything Tyger and Veed have said.
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:16 PM   #27
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Jake I wasn't calling you out by any means, you were just the perfect example of everything that is wrong with the tournament format.
The funny thing was, that the rules was all over the place, I mean, some people didn't even list the 10 game limit. The opponents thread wasn't updated which kind of annoyed me.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:00 PM   #28
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I think 1 thread for the tournament scores and opponents would be good, it could be updated each round and locked to avoid chit chat and leave that in the discussion thread. I appreciate that would mean work for Jappe and Yunder though so it's a small point.

A common issue seems to be using the default game of DCC, but i did like that i could list multiple games with the opportunity to perhaps play different things, using DCC just meant everyone could enter.
If single game tournaments don't appeal, they don't to me personally, why not have an agreed default that every participant has to own to enter?
That way even if it was agreed as DCC everyone would know what the default reverts to if there's no commonly listed game in match ups. You wouldn't have to enter if the default game doesn't appeal. For example if the default was Halo i wouldn't enter as i don't own one.
It's still a little restrictive but not as much as single game tourneys would be.

I do agree an award for participating is inappropriate, and that's coming from somebody who went out in the first round to a woman on a game i'm good at :| ....just being silly if you're reading Kairi!! You whooped me :P

I think the more people able to have the opportunity to enter or play the better, so i'm leaning towards as open rules as are possible.
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:55 PM   #29
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So? I fail to see how not blocking people from adding a new release (or an older game that they just bought) effects anyone. The opponent still has to have the game on their list in order to play it.
I don't know about everyone else, but I mentioned I'm specifically against people removing games. Adding games makes sense.

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I think 1 thread for the tournament scores and opponents would be good, it could be updated each round and locked to avoid chit chat and leave that in the discussion thread. I appreciate that would mean work for Jappe and Yunder though so it's a small point.
Agreed. There was no need for two threads.

Quote:
A common issue seems to be using the default game of DCC, but i did like that i could list multiple games with the opportunity to perhaps play different things, using DCC just meant everyone could enter.
If single game tournaments don't appeal, they don't to me personally, why not have an agreed default that every participant has to own to enter?
That way even if it was agreed as DCC everyone would know what the default reverts to if there's no commonly listed game in match ups. You wouldn't have to enter if the default game doesn't appeal. For example if the default was Halo i wouldn't enter as i don't own one.
It's still a little restrictive but not as much as single game tourneys would be.
The idea behind the default game was so that more people enter - even if they never have a game match with anyone they can still participate by playing a game that's freely available to everyone. Picking a different default game such as Halo not only defeats that purpose, but it also deters some people, like yourself, from entering at all.

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Well at this rate pretty much nothing is changed and I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't an increase of participants in the future.
If you want changes make some more suggestions.

You've made a suggestion regarding prizes but that doesn't alter the way the tournament plays out; you've suggested a losers bracket which, again, doesn't alter the way it plays out, only extends it; you've suggested a game specific tournament (Minecraft I think it was) which I don't think anyone wants to do.

Quote:
I give this tournament: 1/10 - Not, because I lost. There are multiple reasons.

*Wow, so many people against a participating award? Why can't a person just earn it once and would never gain it again? If the same people are winning and the same people are losing every tournament, then the people who always lose wouldn't want to enter no more tournaments. Why can't someone just throw a person a bone once in a great while? There are certain awards that people have that had no accomplishments to really gain them. If this site want more people to enter tournaments then they have to put more on the table. (If you know what I mean. )
You're too focused on awards and prizes. Why can't you just play in the tournaments for fun?
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:13 PM   #30
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*Wow, so many people against a participating award? Why can't a person just earn it once and would never gain it again? If the same people are winning and the same people are losing every tournament, then the people who always lose wouldn't want to enter no more tournaments. Why can't someone just throw a person a bone once in a great while? There are certain awards that people have that had no accomplishments to really gain them. If this site want more people to enter tournaments then they have to put more on the table. (If you know what I mean. )
I'm not against a participant award, but I think having a participant award for every tournament would be a bit much. Doing something like having an award for participating in a tournament of any kind (say "Active Competitor - 2013") might be a happy medium. Having an award for every competition seems a bit much to me as well, but that's a tradition that dates back longer than I've been around, so replacing everything with "First Place - 2013," "Second Place - 2013" and "Third Place - 2013" might not be the right move, even if it will slow the award explosion that has taken place recently.... not that there's anything wrong with that.

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I don't know about everyone else, but I mentioned I'm specifically against people removing games. Adding games makes sense.
The prevailing wisdom has been to lock the games thread. That prevents adding as well. Not only that, but I can envision several situations where not having the ability to remove games would amount to an entry fee. What if the person I loaned the games to damaged the disc? I am then required to pay $x to replace the disc or forfeit the tournament. Because I'm pretty sure that if I had beaten Corrupt, I would have been playing Halo 3. And given what I know about Jakez, I doubt we would be able to agree on a different game.
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