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Old 01-23-2014, 08:47 PM   #61
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Hey, Frag.

Nice to see some Halo 2 Intro love coming from you. However, I'm surprised - well not really (I'll write why soon) - that you're disappointed by Halo 2's ending. Why is it? I feel like everywhere I read on the internet, people say it was the worst (or one of) ending to a video game. I don't know, I usually like cliffhangers, and Halo 2 probably had the biggest cliffhanger in any video game I have played. The war is raging on, John left behind his A.I., Arbiter just murdered a huge threat, we learn that the Prophet is ape-shit-nuts and going to activate all the other rings…and boom, "Master Chief. You mind telling me what you're doing on that ship?" "Sir, finishing this fight." Maybe it is the Halo nerd in me, but that is a "badass" ending to the game given the events that kept on piling and piling up towards the last level.

On an agreeable note though, Keith David was great for the role of The Arbiter. His voice work was fantastic.
You've done most of my explaining for me, to be honest. Even the developers have admitted that they ended Halo 2 "Thelma and Louise style" because they ran out of time to polish it before release. They piled on the suspense until the very end when suddenly--the credits rolled. There was no conclusion, no real sense of accomplishment. For example, look at Mass Effect 2. The game made no bones about the fact that the story wasn't finished, by the time you got to the end, but that didn't keep it from having a satisfying, climactic ending. And notice that Halo 2 didn't seamlessly transition into Halo 3. My general opinion (which is sure to draw hate from the Halo fans) is that Halo was a good game that became much more popular than originally intended, and as a result much of the backstory and extended universe was filled in along the way. It's not all inspired or genius, and that's to be expected. Star Wars is pretty stupid, if you're brutally honest, but it's inspired the imaginations of some really cool people to dream up really cool lore. It's no secret that Bungie didn't originally want a Halo trilogy, and it's obvious that they didn't have all the answers thought up when Halo 2 shipped.
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:55 PM   #62
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You've done most of my explaining for me, to be honest. Even the developers have admitted that they ended Halo 2 "Thelma and Louise style" because they ran out of time to polish it before release. They piled on the suspense until the very end when suddenly--the credits rolled. There was no conclusion, no real sense of accomplishment. For example, look at Mass Effect 2. The game made no bones about the fact that the story wasn't finished, by the time you got to the end, but that didn't keep it from having a satisfying, climactic ending. And notice that Halo 2 didn't seamlessly transition into Halo 3. My general opinion (which is sure to draw hate from the Halo fans) is that Halo was a good game that became much more popular than originally intended, and as a result much of the backstory and extended universe was filled in along the way. It's not all inspired or genius, and that's to be expected. Star Wars is pretty stupid, if you're brutally honest, but it's inspired the imaginations of some really cool people to dream up really cool lore. It's no secret that Bungie didn't originally want a Halo trilogy, and it's obvious that they didn't have all the answers thought up when Halo 2 shipped.
But the execution in the cliffhanger, while simple, was effect as I'm sure fans around the globe were stoked for Halo 3 and hyped it up during those three years between '04 and '07. But huh? How did Halo 2's ending not transition into Halo 3? The opening cutscene in Halo 3 was when the Chief had ditched the Dreadnought (whatever it's called) that he had got on at the end of Halo 2 and fell on Earth, where the Prophet was going? Eh, either way though, I see where you're coming from. I still loved the ending myself. I don't know for certain if they never intended to create a trilogy or not, but from what I know, they NEVER wanted to make Reach but Microsoft kinda forced it down their throats.
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:08 PM   #63
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But the execution in the cliffhanger, while simple, was effect as I'm sure fans around the globe were stoked for Halo 3 and hyped it up during those three years between '04 and '07. But huh? How did Halo 2's ending not transition into Halo 3? The opening cutscene in Halo 3 was when the Chief had ditched the Dreadnought (whatever it's called) that he had got on at the end of Halo 2 and fell on Earth, where the Prophet was going? Eh, either way though, I see where you're coming from. I still loved the ending myself. I don't know for certain if they never intended to create a trilogy or not, but from what I know, they NEVER wanted to make Reach but Microsoft kinda forced it down their throats.
Fans around the globe were absolutely hyped, but that's no excuse for delivering an incomplete ending. I'm still mad at Half-Life 2: Episode 2, and that's a brilliant game. And no, I don't think it transitions at all, since the Chief's final effort of Halo 2 was getting aboard the Forerunner ship. And then he just leaps off? He shouldn't have that much brain damage BEFORE he leaps off a ship reentering atmosphere. I'm no Halo lore expert, but aren't there events that transpire between Halo 2 and Halo 3 involving the Chief? Again, I'm no expert, but I have faint memories of that being the case. What I am sure of, though, is that Halo wasn't intended to be a trilogy originally, any more than Halo Wars was intended to be in the Halo franchise originally. Don't look at the Halo games through rose-tinted glasses. Halo 2 was fun, and I have many fond memories of it, but I hold no illusions of how objectively good it was. About the best thing in it was the presentation. It's still my least favorite Halo, even worse than Reach (and I share your distaste for that game.
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:18 PM   #64
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Hmm…Fallout 3?
One other game, rather.
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Old 01-23-2014, 11:40 PM   #65
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Fans around the globe were absolutely hyped, but that's no excuse for delivering an incomplete ending. I'm still mad at Half-Life 2: Episode 2, and that's a brilliant game. And no, I don't think it transitions at all, since the Chief's final effort of Halo 2 was getting aboard the Forerunner ship. And then he just leaps off? He shouldn't have that much brain damage BEFORE he leaps off a ship reentering atmosphere. I'm no Halo lore expert, but aren't there events that transpire between Halo 2 and Halo 3 involving the Chief? Again, I'm no expert, but I have faint memories of that being the case. What I am sure of, though, is that Halo wasn't intended to be a trilogy originally, any more than Halo Wars was intended to be in the Halo franchise originally. Don't look at the Halo games through rose-tinted glasses. Halo 2 was fun, and I have many fond memories of it, but I hold no illusions of how objectively good it was. About the best thing in it was the presentation. It's still my least favorite Halo, even worse than Reach (and I share your distaste for that game.
Alright, that is true. Can't speak for Half-Life. I never played the game :/ Started the intro at my friends house, never went back to it.

I'm not as much of an expert as DrakReign, but I know a good amount and I'm 99% certain Chief is still aboard the ship between Halo's 2 and 3. While you do make a good point about him struggling to get on, only to leap off, there is a comic that details some events that took place while he was on the ship:

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Halo:_Uprising

Perhaps the reason of him ditching out is explained in there, I'm not quite sure.

Nah, when it comes to Halo, I don't let nostalgia take the best of me. I've stated in other forums that the two big reasons I liked Halo 2 were because of innovation in story-telling and game mechanics. Since Halo 2, no installment has been invented anything that pushed the series forward, and I guess that's a part of the reason why I believe Halo 2 to be superior. If that is hidden nostalgia somehow, maybe I'm wrong, but I think that stands valid. Not sure if I just talked in circle there, actually.

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One other game, rather.
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Old 01-23-2014, 11:48 PM   #66
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Nah, when it comes to Halo, I don't let nostalgia take the best of me. I've stated in other forums that the two big reasons I liked Halo 2 were because of innovation in story-telling and game mechanics. Since Halo 2, no installment has been invented anything that pushed the series forward, and I guess that's a part of the reason why I believe Halo 2 to be superior. If that is hidden nostalgia somehow, maybe I'm wrong, but I think that stands valid. Not sure if I just talked in circle there, actually.
That's fair. I'm likely falling into the opposite error: judging older games by today's standards. For the same reasons that Goldeneye was great, I'll allow that Halo 2 was great, too, even though there are obvious flaws by today's standards.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:55 AM   #67
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Minus the heartbreaking mispelling, I sense my name and the call of Halo Lore once more.

John didn't immediately make an attempt to escape. He was actually wreaking havoc across the ship in an attempt to reach and assassinate the Prophet of Truth, but was taking a bit of a beating himself and after an unsuccessful attempt, he is forced to make a quick retreat to survive the Jiralhanae honor guard in pursuit. As he flees the ship, he's informed that the UNSC is planning an attack on the Dreadnought and he is within the blast radius and needs to evacuate quickly, thus leading him to exit the ship as it's entering the atmosphere and attempting to survive the crash (a maneuver attempted by 22 of the other Spartan II's during the attack on Reach.) The splitoff we see in the beginning of Halo 3 is actually the Ghost John had commandeered and used to absorb most of the impact during re-entry.
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:04 AM   #68
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Minus the heartbreaking mispelling, I sense my name and the call of Halo Lore once more.

John didn't immediately make an attempt to escape. He was actually wreaking havoc across the ship in an attempt to reach and assassinate the Prophet of Truth, but was taking a bit of a beating himself and after an unsuccessful attempt, he is forced to make a quick retreat to survive the Jiralhanae honor guard in pursuit. As he flees the ship, he's informed that the UNSC is planning an attack on the Dreadnought and he is within the blast radius and needs to evacuate quickly, thus leading him to exit the ship as it's entering the atmosphere and attempting to survive the crash (a maneuver attempted by 22 of the other Spartan II's during the attack on Reach.) The splitoff we see in the beginning of Halo 3 is actually the Ghost John had commandeered and used to absorb most of the impact during re-entry.
And there's the other illustration of my point I was hoping for. Obviously, there's a perfectly good reason for the disparity between Halo 2's end and Halo 3's beginning. But considering how much BiggD considers Master Chief's final moments in Halo 2 to be a cliffhanger, there's no immediate resolution or even hope of one at the start of 3. The edge of the cliffhanger, his presence on the ship, just vanishes with no explanation. And even though there is an explanation, as DarkReign has pointed out, if the games can't tell a coherent story without having to rely on outside materials, then I call foul in the storytelling department.
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:16 AM   #69
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Unfortunately, the point you made about Halo never being planned as a trilogy is correct. Halo 2 was being built as the final entry in the series, or at least that particular story arc, but between time constraints and Microsoft's interference, they ended up cutting out half a dozen levels and rewrote the last couple levels to be an ending that left the series open to another entry. That's why the ending felt so haphazard and the Halo 3 storyline felt so weak overall.

To be fair, though, I enjoyed Halo 2's ending for the most part. I had no problem with closing with the Arbiter instead of the chief and I enjoyed the final cutscene with John's closing line. I do admit I wasn't expecting credits after that point though. He said that and I was really expecting at least one more level. Even if it didn't conclude the series, just getting to Earth and having the Ark open up to a new world would've been cool with me.
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:33 AM   #70
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Fallout 3 is my favourite opening, It was a genuis idea to start as a baby

Batman : Arkham Asylum, I've only played this game lastm onth for the 1st time, but man this was amazing

Silent Hill 2 : not much to say really, just a perfect intro to a masterpiece of a game!
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:45 AM   #71
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Minus the heartbreaking mispelling, I sense my name and the call of Halo Lore once more.
Nope. I meant it. You're Drak now.

By the way, I wish you could tag people in forums like on social media, lol. I'd be tagging you every time Halo comes up when I don't know something.

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As DarkReign has pointed out, if the games can't tell a coherent story without having to rely on outside materials, then I call foul in the storytelling department.
To be completely fair and unbiased, I finally see myself agreeing with Frag. Perhaps Halo has, does, and will continue to rely too much on its other forms of media at times (comics/books).

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Unfortunately, the point you made about Halo never being planned as a trilogy is correct. Halo 2 was being built as the final entry in the series, or at least that particular story arc, but between time constraints and Microsoft's interference, they ended up cutting out half a dozen levels and rewrote the last couple levels to be an ending that left the series open to another entry. That's why the ending felt so haphazard and the Halo 3 storyline felt so weak overall.
Just a little thing, what game nowadays only has two entries though?

I've always thought - or found - that a game will usually do one of three things:
  • Be a very successful IP, and then the devs move on, leaving it a single installment
  • Be a VERY successful IP, that it pans out into a trilogy (Mass Effect [first one was created without the plan of having future installments], Halo, Uncharted)
  • Be SO SUCCESSFUL, that annualization happens (CoD & Assassin's Creed)
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Old 01-24-2014, 02:53 AM   #72
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Minus the heartbreaking mispelling, I sense my name and the call of Halo Lore once more.

John didn't immediately make an attempt to escape. He was actually wreaking havoc across the ship in an attempt to reach and assassinate the Prophet of Truth, but was taking a bit of a beating himself and after an unsuccessful attempt, he is forced to make a quick retreat to survive the Jiralhanae honor guard in pursuit. As he flees the ship, he's informed that the UNSC is planning an attack on the Dreadnought and he is within the blast radius and needs to evacuate quickly, thus leading him to exit the ship as it's entering the atmosphere and attempting to survive the crash (a maneuver attempted by 22 of the other Spartan II's during the attack on Reach.) The splitoff we see in the beginning of Halo 3 is actually the Ghost John had commandeered and used to absorb most of the impact during re-entry.
This is why you are uber lord of the Halo facts I suppose
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Old 01-24-2014, 02:59 AM   #73
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All this talk of Halo, I have to post my favorite intro

Halo 2- skip to 2:30 for intro:

Last edited by Fritz White; 01-24-2014 at 03:02 AM.
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Old 01-24-2014, 03:12 AM   #74
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So it's decided, Halo 2's intro is balls to the walls awesome.
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Old 01-24-2014, 03:27 AM   #75
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BiggD: "So it's decided, Halo 2's intro is balls to the walls awesome."


Indeed
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Old 01-24-2014, 03:29 AM   #76
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Final Fantasy VII: Dirge of Cerberus was really cool.
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Old 01-24-2014, 03:36 AM   #77
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I have always thought Resident Evil: Code Veronica had an awesome intro. Still one of my faves. ME 2 comes to mind, as well as Final Fantasy 3(6). The intro music still gives me chills.
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Old 01-24-2014, 03:51 AM   #78
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Unfortunately, the point you made about Halo never being planned as a trilogy is correct. Halo 2 was being built as the final entry in the series, or at least that particular story arc, but between time constraints and Microsoft's interference, they ended up cutting out half a dozen levels and rewrote the last couple levels to be an ending that left the series open to another entry. That's why the ending felt so haphazard and the Halo 3 storyline felt so weak overall.
I thought the reason Halo 2's ending felt haphazard was because Halo 2 was pretty much created in only 9 months.
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:13 AM   #79
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This is why you are uber lord of the Halo facts I suppose
I worked damn hard for the honor of wielding this title and I continue to work for it ^_^

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I thought the reason Halo 2's ending felt haphazard was because Halo 2 was pretty much created in only 9 months.
That was the first Halo. It had a few years of work behind it, but it started as an RTS on the Mac, than changed to a TPS and, when bought out by MS, became an FPS for the Xbox. While many of the details were solid and fully prepped, the actual programming, art assets, and level designs were left to be completed in just 7 months.

Halo 2, on the other hand, began development in January 2002 and remained in development up up until the beginning of October, where it went gold and entered Mass Production. The story of Halo 2 and the universe in it's entirety, has been written since Halo: CE's inception in some level of detail or another, but there has no doubt been tampering over the years as there's no way to truly anticipate every happening and the extending of Halo into a trilogy is one such example.
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:35 AM   #80
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I know it has been several years, but I definitely remember info (I think it may have been in the Halo 2 LE DVD, but I do remember it being one of the points of complaints from the members of the old halo2sucks.com site) saying that Bungie didn't do much work at all on Halo 2 until the point where they released that New Mombasa E3 demo.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:56 PM   #81
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I know it has been several years, but I definitely remember info (I think it may have been in the Halo 2 LE DVD, but I do remember it being one of the points of complaints from the members of the old halo2sucks.com site) saying that Bungie didn't do much work at all on Halo 2 until the point where they released that New Mombasa E3 demo.
Not that it's a reliable source, but I too read on Halo Wiki that Halo 2's ending was rushed because the game was too long and had to be abruptly cut before it went gold.
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Old 01-24-2014, 02:24 PM   #82
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both points are true to a point. Halo 2 started out with some awful management there in the beginning. Work WAS being done on it, but they didn't really have a focus on the direction they wanted to go in yet. They were getting their music, they were getting their textures and 3D models. They just didn't know what to do with them quite yet. To their credit, though, they also spent a great deal of early development building the Halo 2 engine and aiding Microsoft in the creation of Xbox Live. Xbox Live was as much created for Halo 2 as Halo 2 was created for Xbox Live.

Cutting the ending, as I said, was a Microsoft decision, but it was longer than they had time to create (I could've had a 20+ hour campaign! T_T) Instead of compressing it to fit into a last level or two, MS just had had them leave it out and begin work on Halo 3 and thus, we are where we are today because of it. Personally, the fact that I hated Halo 3 combined with my missing out on a potentially lengthy Halo 2 campaign really disappoints me. lol.

Now get back on topic D:<
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Old 01-24-2014, 02:52 PM   #83
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The only thing that springs to mind is the Bioshock Infinite opening.
Such a visually stunning intro. I must have re-played the first hour of the game about 50 times altogether.
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Old 01-24-2014, 03:19 PM   #84
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Now get back on topic D:<
Don't worry. Maybe we can relive the good ol' days of Halo 2 in HD this Fall.

Maybe, just maybe, 343 will create an Epilogue mission so the game doesn't end as abruptly, too

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The only thing that springs to mind is the Bioshock Infinite opening.
Such a visually stunning intro. I must have re-played the first hour of the game about 50 times altogether.
I've played the game 5 times and each time I arrived in Columbia via the "seat" from the beginning, I got goosebumps.

Every. Time.
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Old 01-24-2014, 05:47 PM   #85
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Hey DarkReign, how'd you learn so much about Halo?
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Old 01-24-2014, 06:44 PM   #86
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lol. I try to get back on topic and they just keep pullin' me back in.

8 games, 14 books, 8 graphic novels, 2 ARGs, multiple pamphlets, the Halo encyclopedia (has numerous little details that don't exist anywhere else), and numerous B.net and Waypoint updates over the years. I know so much because it's always interested me and it's just kind of stuck with me. Halo Wikia helps me keep the small detail gap filled and although it's not the most dependable source, it frequently provides references that I can use to confirm for myself. Other than that, it's mostly just paying attention and repetition of use. Just memorizing the names and spelling of the Covenant species' was quite an undertaking when they were first revealed.
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Old 01-24-2014, 07:19 PM   #87
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I've always enjoyed Chrono Trigger...




And I love how someone made an HD remake of it, too.


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Old 01-24-2014, 08:25 PM   #88
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chronotrigger would be a perfect remake. I think it has a big enough fanbase, no?
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:31 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkReign2021 View Post
lol. I try to get back on topic and they just keep pullin' me back in.

8 games, 14 books, 8 graphic novels, 2 ARGs, multiple pamphlets, the Halo encyclopedia (has numerous little details that don't exist anywhere else), and numerous B.net and Waypoint updates over the years. I know so much because it's always interested me and it's just kind of stuck with me. Halo Wikia helps me keep the small detail gap filled and although it's not the most dependable source, it frequently provides references that I can use to confirm for myself. Other than that, it's mostly just paying attention and repetition of use. Just memorizing the names and spelling of the Covenant species' was quite an undertaking when they were first revealed.
I wish I knew as much as you :/ You may be the God-King-Lord of facts, but I'm sitting over here as the like…Jester or something.
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Old 01-25-2014, 03:33 AM   #90
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i actually loved the opening of Grand Theft Auto 5. Starting off the game with something that happened in the past, 10 years ago in this case, may seem really cliche but R* managed to pull it off, and really well too I must add.
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