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Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning
38 Studios Defend Controversial Online Pass for Kingdoms of Amalur
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Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning's online pass contains content which will be locked away from those who buy the game used. It's a revelation that has prompted an angry response from fans and a spirited defence by one of the game's creators, Curt Schilling.

The RPG's online pass unlocks a series of single-player missions called the House of Valor faction quest, as well as some Mass Effect-inspired cross-promotional armour. As is the way, if you buy Kingdoms of Amalur new from a retailer a code for the pass will be included in the box. If not, you'll have to dish out extra for it.

Potential consumers, however, are not happy. On top of the usual antagonism faced by online passes, the issue was compounded by the fact that Kingdoms of Amalur is a single-player game and therefore does not have a fully-fledged online component to speak of.

In response to the outburst, co-creators 38 Studio's Curt Shilling posted on the game's forum, attempting to calm angry fans and explain that an online pass is essential to his studio's survival.

"It's clear the intent right?" he said. "To promote early adopters and MUCH MORE IMPORTANT TO ME, REWARD fans and gamers who commit to us with their time and money when it benefits the company.

"Every single person on the planet could wait and not buy Reckoning, the game would hit the bargain bin at some point and you could get it cheaper. 38 Studios would likely go away.

"That's just how business works. We MUST make a profit to become what we want to become. THE ONLY way we do that is to make games you CANNOT WAIT TO BUY! If we do that, and you do that, we want to reward you with some cool free stuff as a thank you."

It's not just 38 Studios who are struggling at the moment, either, said Schilling,

"The industry is in a very odd place," he said. "The data coming in on used game sales is not saying the things many thought it should, or would. But companies are still trying to figure out how to receive dollars spent on games they make, when they are bought. Is that wrong? if so please tell me how.

"Again, you can argue with methods, or process, and you absolutely can bitch and gripe about ANY DAY 1 DLC you are charged for, because I think I agree with many on that, but we are trying to create something here, product and company wise, and it takes dollars to do that."

Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning is out next week. You can watch a brand new video detailing the game's world below, courtesy of EA.




 
 

User Comments

Forum Posts: 1436
Comment #1 by Vigor
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:27:34 AM
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Good one.
They have my support :)


Forum Posts: 169
Comment #2 by Arron114
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:30:20 AM
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He makes a fair point. Should probably take his finger off his shift key though.

I’m hearing a lot of the devs trying to make a few quid to help out there revenue of late.

If they distributed the game electronically or directly from them at a significantly discounted rrp then surely they would sell more copies at a lower cost?

Lower the top line and the bottom line will increase. I.E: stop being so fucking greedy.


Forum Posts: 65
Comment #3 by kushlash23
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:30:41 AM
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I am so sick of people complaining about this stuff. Everything he said makes sense and I fully support showing some love to these games and the hard work put into them. Day 1 buy for me, no doubt.


Forum Posts: 191
Comment #4 by ryanweinmann
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:34:33 AM
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I agree, and I disagree. What happen if you don't have the internet like my brother, who wanted play this game so bad? On the other hand I hear what they saying but the reason why a lot of the people buying used games b/c they simply cannot afford to buy a 60 dollar game. Gamestop or other store that sell used game is a gateway for them to play a game that they wanted play so bad. Maybe if they put more time and effort into the game, and quit with this day 1 dlc, the content is already in the game, so it really isn't a dlc content.


Forum Posts: 6
Comment #5 by PrismSub7
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:35:32 AM
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I have a better solution to their problems. Instead of buying the game cheaper and be branded a thief, I'll just skip buying the entire game.

They seem to forgot that the consumer sets the price.


Forum Posts: 1706
Comment #6 by mmartynn
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:38:06 AM
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I think it mainly takes the piss that you need the online pass for a single player game just for some extra missions and the unlock stuff from the demo.
supose its like the Cerberus pass from me2. Not needed but gave you extra dlc missions for free. dept this time the missions are already on disc....


Forum Posts: 45
Comment #7 by metalmadt
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:38:13 AM
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I'll agree with is philosophy but I'm still not getting the game as Arcade game have better graphic theses days.



Forum Posts: 17
Comment #8 by The Hyruth
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:38:50 AM
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I don't see what the big deal is. Batman Arkham City did the same thing with the Catwoman DLC. Batman is also a single player game, the only online component was the leaderboards.


Forum Posts: 191
Comment #9 by ryanweinmann
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:39:11 AM
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@5 yeah I with you. I forgot to mention about that. So he saying that we have to buy the game new at 60, b/c he said so. Like I mention b/4 what happen if you cannot afford it? Maybe, the game isn't that good and don't wanted spend 65 (with tax) on a game.


Forum Posts: 53
Comment #10 by ChocoDK
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:41:20 AM
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I didn't have much interest in this game and now my interest of this game has dropped to zero. Congratulations.


Forum Posts: 1
Comment #11 by Joewayer
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:41:31 AM
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EA did the same thing with Dragon Age because they're money grubbing whores. 38 Studios doing it to get through the lean years seems better to me since they explained it like they did. I would have felt better about it if Curt Shilling had said that they would try their best to avoid online passes or anything similar in the future.

If I'm going to be nickel and dimed by a company I do prefer to get extra DLC instead of paying ten bucks to EA to keep their servers on for my new game for an extra five months.


Forum Posts: 398
Comment #12 by Wicelow
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:42:54 AM
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So now it's not about making a great game everyone wants right away, but making a "not bad" game with locked content to still make us get it new ?

And people are believing this crap ?

Brilliant !


Again, when you buy a used car, do you give money to the original car retailer ? No you don't.
Online passes are just BS to put even more money in their pocket, it's not about rewarding us !


Forum Posts: 32
Comment #13 by Vandiloo
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:44:55 AM
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I rarely buy used games; mostly only when I find an old game I decide to try that is "out of print" or when I already bought it new on another system. So this really won't effect my buying the game. For people that only or mostly buy used, they really need to face facts that this is the way of the future. Game makers need and deserve some compensation for their work. The used game market will eventually drive all consoles to go to the same process as PC games. You buy it, enter a code and it's yours forever; no selling, loaning, renting, borrowing etc. The only thing you can do about it is not play games!


Forum Posts: 64
Comment #14 by dark_shard
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:45:40 AM
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I pre-ordered this a while back as I'm a huge fan of the genre and it looked fresh. Now I keep wavering back and forth about whether or not that was a good decision. I'm going to hold out and get it still and just hope for the best!


Forum Posts: 191
Comment #15 by ryanweinmann
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:45:57 AM
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Oh yeah I forgot to mention this. When people buy used games, somebody already brought the game, so basically the company already made a profit off of that game.


Forum Posts: 227
Comment #16 by Brengun
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:46:21 AM
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Well I thought the demo was average, and if I was going to get a copy it would be second hand, so I think they've dropped a bollock there.


Forum Posts: 0
Comment #17 by wrenphilth
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:46:41 AM
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am I the only person who has bought a game brand new and not have the code in the game? Happened with Marvel Super Hero Squad a while back. How do you rectify that situation? Because I am sure if you called customer support they would laugh their balls off at you. I just took it as a loss and didnt really care because it was superhero squad if it had been a AAA title like Kingdoms I might have been pissed. But how many times has this happened to other people. I mean it is understandable things happen at the manufacturer but would you be able to take it back to a store that has super crazy return policies because of lack of downloadable content in the game? Probably not so as a consumer you get fucked in the ass yet again by the big company because you bought it at full price and have to pay an additional 10 bucks for something that should be on it from the get go.


Forum Posts: 27
Comment #18 by shadowfeeder
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:48:16 AM
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RAGE did this as well, didn't they?
Maybe it was just in Sweden where the only version is the Anarchy edition.


Forum Posts: 92
Comment #19 by PluralAces
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:48:33 AM
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This game is going to have a limited fan base anyway, so you might as well milk them for all that they are worth. The could have done like THQ did with Saints Row where if you pre-ordered directly from THQ you got the Season Pass for free...That would have guaranteed them direct money, without having to go through a retailer...Thats how you reward customers...


Forum Posts: 156
Comment #20 by SkyJin
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:49:21 AM
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I don't really see the problm here. Just let the kids cry themself to sleep.
Got my support! Getting this game for sure!!


Forum Posts: 3
Comment #21 by Bob on
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:51:19 AM
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I don't understand why they are using tactics like this to try to stop something that the retailers are already killing themselves.

A lot of pre-owned games are being retailed at only a couple of pounds cheaper than a brand new copy. Given the option I know which I'd go for. I rarely buy pre-owned for this reason.

All that's going to happen is more people are going to wait until the price comes down or not get the game at all, resulting in a loss of profit, the same thing they say they are trying to avoid.


Forum Posts: 315
Comment #22 by CrownlessKing
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:51:42 AM
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@12 So you'd rather buy all your games used and see all the money go to some worthless dump like GameStop, and have no money at all go to the people who actually make the games and thus they run out of money and then no good games are made, outside of maybe Call of Duty since Activision is a made of money.

Why complain? Either buy the damn game new, or, suck it up and pay like $10 for the online pass if you buy it used. Chances are it'll retail for like $60, and maybe it'll be used for say, $40. So you probably won't end up paying the full price anyway.

And, of course, if you don't want this online content, DON'T BUY THE FUCKING PASS. You don't need it to complete the whole game, it's just there for optional content.


Forum Posts: 198
Comment #23 by eXoTiC Zebes0
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:51:48 AM
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I agree with him! But when cod is starting to say things like this I'm gonna go nuts


Forum Posts: 152
Comment #24 by MastrMeatWad
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:52:18 AM
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Either path is not a good one for the consumer/developer. The online passes are a crock and I think the publishers/developers need to find a better way to encourage new sales. In this economy 59.99 msrp is something I avoid and only buy week one if I can score a giftcard ($20) or something similar. At the same time I understand the concern as studios are closing because the economy and poor game sales. Used games is a huge market, one that is ruled by gamestop who saves you 5 dollars on a new release (what a joke). So then I ask myself. Why pay 5 dollars less used and support gamestop, when I can pay 5 more and support the developer so more games can be made? I think it comes down to 59.99 is more than I want to pay for most games.

There must be a better way than online passes. The addition of the Alice code in the last Alice game was a nice bonus and did not impact the game (still kind of an online pass, but this was substantially better than a quest). Perhaps special editions should be the only thing released for 59.99 during the first month of sales. Bonus of book/avatar props, I don't know a silly keychain. Those cost substantially close to nothing to produce and add to the purchase.


Forum Posts: 0
Comment #25 by wrenphilth
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:52:35 AM
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Lately I have been buying games new but there are times I buy them on Gamefly because shit paying 5.99 for a game that is 29.99 to 49.99 else where why wouldnt you?


Forum Posts: 1585
Comment #26 by Baihu1983
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:52:46 AM
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Good games sell a lot of new copies so unless you think the game sucks? devs have no real reason to worry.

Still this is what Fable wanted to be.


Forum Posts: 1637
Comment #27 by xXmyxxmastaXx
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:53:17 AM
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i smell EA


Forum Posts: 130
Comment #28 by Space Cadet
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:54:39 AM
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What about the people whose consoles are not connected to the internet? Should they just go fuck themselves?


Forum Posts: 41
Comment #29 by TheSletchman
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:55:45 AM
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I can't believe how self entitled so many of you are being. Complaining about paying $60USD for a new game because it's "too expensive". Everywhere else in the world pays the equilivent of $100USD (or more) for new games, and $60 is considered "bargain" prices. If new games were $60 I'd buy twice what I do as day 1 purchases.

If these online passes allow smaller studios that make quality titles keep existing, then so be it - I'm happy for games to have online passes. The only thing that bugs me is retailer exclusives - especially when it's exclusives that aren't available in many countries (ie. Not the USA).

I'm sure I'm gonna get a bunch of thumbs downs, but that doesn't make this any less true. If an online pass is going to stop you from buying games, then you better resign yourself to playing strictly iPhone games, because this is the future of console gaming - so get over it.


Forum Posts: 67
Comment #30 by Alchemist5
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:00:33 AM
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Never heard of the game never getting it. This online pass and disk locked content garbage is not to reward the fans, it is because they are greedy money grubbers. This goes for every game company. Anybody who thinks differently is just another mindless fanboy-girl.


Forum Posts: 41
Comment #31 by TheSletchman
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:03:53 AM
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@30: You're right - it is totally greedy money grubbing. It's also reality. Almost every major (and even minor) title release is including this system NOW, and will continue to in the future. It's what's happening, so people getting all up in arms about it and refusing to buy titles that include it will just lead to them not buying any games.


Forum Posts: 592
Comment #32 by TransonicPower
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:09:38 AM
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I thought the dlc from the SP was not disk-locked content, but brand new dlc?


Forum Posts: 0
Comment #33 by wrenphilth
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:10:49 AM
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It would be nice if a lot of these games were innovative but tend to be overpriced piles of shit (Homefront I am looking at you)most of these games tend to be cookie cutter of previous games. so little developer big developer it doesnt matter in the long run its all the same. At least with used sales they are reaching a broader audience. And paying money to use the online multiplayer on a system that you already pay money to play online doesnt that seem wrong to anyone? But its cool because it helps the pay the little guy. But what about me the consumer I am paying Internet bills, Yearly subscription to Live then they expect me to shell out money to buy the game. and depending on if I buy it used or new I may have to spend more money on it to play a certain way. Now if there was DLC added after the fact that is alright but having to do that just to play mulitplayer depending on the game is one of the core components of a game is rediculous.


Forum Posts: 6
Comment #34 by Lumo
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:14:00 AM
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I agree with #29. All these complaining about how expensive the games are, bla bla... It's true, they aren't cheap (SFr. 80.00 or more for me; SFr. means Swiss Francs) but either you have the 60USD to buy the game or forget it. Nobody wants to read some whiner-comments. I'm out!


Forum Posts: 3223
Comment #35 by DecadentBeaver
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:14:09 AM
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@30. Totally agree with you. EA seem to be continuing the trend. Money grabbing assholes. If the content is on the disc, the surely. Its not dlc! So if I've got this right, you buy the game pre owned, then have to pay again to play other bits of it? I already have to pay for internet, electricity, then the game, then again to play certain portions of it? Complete crap.

I am glad I played the demo, and found out how god awful it was before buying it. Elder Scrolls and Bethesda have nothing to worry about here. Its a cheap Fable clone at best, and I am unsure if I will get Mass Effect 3 now, as I love that series.


Forum Posts: 166
Comment #36 by the emcee
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:15:17 AM
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Play, amazon, shopto etc will all have this new for £20-£30 within a month you can guarantee it. People can still get the pass if they are patient.

The problem is, times are hard! Game developers whine on about how hard it is to stay alive in the industry when many consumers struggle to make ends meet too! £40 for a game is a lot, I've been paying that for years but now I wait until a few weeks have passed to save a bit of cash.

Media is generally overpriced it's a top heavy industry, but in a day and age where people pay for achievements or don't buy dlc if it doesn't boost their score at all, nothing surprises me. Ill only pay full whack if the game is worthy of it, dark souls for example.


Forum Posts: 2
Comment #37 by DC KUSH 91
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:17:20 AM
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It makes sense in a way.

I mean, if you pay £10 for a pre-owned game should you really get ALL of the content that the guy who paid full price had?

It also means more people are encouraged to buy new, meaning more money for the developers, meaning potentially bigger and better games in the future.

Win win from my pov??


Forum Posts: 22
Comment #38 by sumthingchronic
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:21:54 AM
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Very fair point and nicely put


Forum Posts: 301
Comment #39 by Stevilinho
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:25:25 AM
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this is an RPG game and i dont buy RPG games on release and wait till there around £10-15 and get more bang for my buck, ive done that with every RPG game ive ever bought(still havent got skyrim and i know i will love it)

having a 'online pass' in a game that has no online mode is bullshit no matter how you put it or give away

this is one of those games i am unsure whether to get new or pre-owned and seeing as theres no online pre-owned seems the better option but now i feel if i did im being punished for being more careful with my money


Forum Posts: 86
Comment #40 by mad4ra
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:26:35 AM
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@7 Playing games for the graphics is like watching porn for the story.


Forum Posts: 609
Comment #41 by tkhbecker
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:27:03 AM
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As qouted by The Pants Party from the official post
http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showthread.php?t=354453

"We wanted to post a quick clarification for something we've seen a few comments about. For what it's worth, the House of Valor content was not in the finished game/disc at one point, then removed. It isn't there and we're locking you out of it. The House of Valor was created as stand-alone content, and was always intended to be the first DLC. Instead of holding onto it and charging for it later, we opted to give it to everyone who purchases the game new, for free, on launch day. We hope that helps clarify that point, at least. "

So originally it wasnt on the disk at all but put on and then "locked". Similar to Gears of War 3 with the skins and maps.

So the whole debate is buy the game new for $60 and get an online code for a DLC stoy quest which more likely than not may or may not impact overall story? or pay $55 used and have to pay another $10 for it.

Or companies can be like Activision and charge $60 for a game, $50 for an "Elite" pass to get the DLCs "free" for the next few months. Oh BTW did we forget to tell you that a new CoD game will be out in Nov?


Forum Posts: 8
Comment #42 by Furl
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:31:50 AM
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Anyone who has a problem with this, is a moron. The industry is trying to defend itself, so you can get better games. And all you care about is that your pocket keeps an extra few Pounds/Dollars.

Seriously. I wish people cared more about their hobby, and less about their bank balance.

If you care about gaming, this should be no problem at all.


Forum Posts: 86
Comment #43 by mad4ra
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:36:53 AM
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Well i kinda understand the problem with money from people who doesnt have a regular income (Kids, students without jobs etc.) but working people shouldnt complain. You want something, you pay for it. The world works that way, get over it.


Forum Posts: 137
Comment #44 by reddragon6288
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:40:54 AM
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Actually the big issue here is the fact that they labeled their day one DLC as an online pass for a single player game. The impression that everyone reading "online pass" believes that in order to play the game you have to register online to play the game, and the only way to do that would be to buy it new... If they would have advertised it as the following it would have been better:

If you buy the game new, you will get the House of Valor quest line and some Mass Effect 3 armor.

That would have gotten no questions on this. Just as Batman was able to advertise the Catwoman expansion to those that bought the game brand new. Pretty simple to understand it. But they purposely named the DLC as an online pass to scare those that were on the fence on buying it new into either buying it or down right not getting it. In fear of having to buy extra stuff in order to play the game if they rented it or bought it used. Its a case of horrible wording on the devs part. I just hope its not like the Cerberus Pass, in which it only worked for one person on an Xbox. Which I find funny (in a bad way) that Microsoft advertises a family system, but yet this game's DLC only works for the person that downloaded it, and not everyone that uses that Xbox. I know I was pissed when my brother downloaded the pass and I would have to pay for it in order to use it on the same box.

Sadly, speaking about the Online Pass, the multiplayer ones need to stop. The companies that are implementing them are not small companies and don't have the excuse like 38 Studios does of saying that they may go out of business. They are just being greedy and trying to milk the games they already are getting loads of money from. Well I have an excuse for not paying for a $60 game. Its called I don't have the money for it, and sadly I know I am not the only person out there that doesn't. The world economy is down the crapper and the companies want to say they are hurting from the used game sales?? If they seriously want to toss that out there that is just ignorant. Because right now I can't think of one off beat company with a crappy game that charges renters/used gamers an extra fee to play their multiplayer. So far these are the companies I am seeing EA (the largest one), THQ, & Ubisoft. I honestly can't think of any others besides those. But let's see what games were bundled with this Online Pass... Saints Row the Third, Assassin's Creed Revelations, Dead Space 2 & Battlefield 3, Just to name a few. And I don't see any of their day one sales hurting the company, and I highly doubt the used/rented game market is hurting their profit. They just want more...

End of Rant...


Forum Posts: 289
Comment #45 by zarda1
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:44:04 AM
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just make a good game and you won't have to worry about profits.


Forum Posts: 86
Comment #46 by mad4ra
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:44:10 AM
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@44 You forgot Batman :) maybe Warner Bros. is going bankrupt?


Forum Posts: 1299
Comment #47 by Chuppernicus
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:48:20 AM
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Every game should have an online pass. If not, pretty soon the only option we'll have for games will be the same yearly title from EA and Activision and phone "games".

Ever watched the credits after you beat a game? I wonder how all those "greedy" folks would get paid if some of you broke ass whinners had your way.


Forum Posts: 2
Comment #48 by Damodar Thade
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:52:03 AM
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Well like Arkham City you just went from day1 buy to day1 rent from blockbuster who gives you the code with the game day1 =)


Forum Posts: 17
Comment #49 by Commandment VII
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:58:10 AM
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I support Game Dev's buy buying games new. I only buy used games if I have to.

Now, that being said someone said we were being "self-entitled"? I don't think wanting what you pay for, at any price, is self-entitlement. I don't buy a box of cereal, get home, open it and see half of it gone and just think "Oh, that's okay, I like not getting what I pay for."


Forum Posts: 27
Comment #50 by DJLight890
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:59:27 AM
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@12 See, the problem with your used car theory is that Ford, Dodge, Chevy, etc. make their own cars (sort of) and then sell them at their own dealerships. Well companies like 38 Studios, Bioware, Bethesda, etc. make the game, but don't have their own dealership (store) to sell the game. They sell it to retailers who sell the game for them.

When we (the consumers) go in to sell our used games back, we sell it to the retailers, not the game developers themselvers. So the retailers can make money on the same game more than once while the game developers only make money on the first transactions, essentially. Car dealerships can potentially make money twice on the same car because they made the car. Sure, you can buy a car at Ford and sell it later to Dodge, so Dodge can make money off of a used Ford, but the point is that you could have sold it back to Ford for them to make money on the car again. You CANNOT sell the game back to the developer for them to make money on it down the road. It is the retailer that will make the money down the road.

I hope all of that made sense...


Forum Posts: 974
Comment #51 by H2O
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 10:05:19 AM
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KOA:R - Can be pre-ordered in the uk for < £40. It'll likely give me far more than 40hrs game play so will cost less than £1/Hr.

My local squash court is £5/Hr to hire

A New Blu-ray film in the UK, £15 for a 2Hr film. That'll be £7.50/ Hr

Games are VERY good value for money and are generally worth paying full price for.


If you're too poor to buy all the things you want then you should save up, shop around, or wait till the price drops. I reguarly see NEW copies of recent releases on sale for £25-30. Ofter lower than pre-owned copies in shops like game.

Fully support the Devs here.


Forum Posts: 2
Comment #52 by Damodar Thade
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 10:12:02 AM
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@50 Bioware is owned outright by EA they are not a independant dev anymore.


Forum Posts: 255
Comment #53 by IronBrutzler
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 10:12:53 AM
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@47
Games are now sold for more then 25years and in the beginning there where no DLC or Online Passes (on Console)
I just know a handfull of games from Snes or Sega Mega Drive who had a add on for it but most of them where re-released.
And you know what?Most of them survivded till now like Nintendo,Factor 5 or Capcom.
Dont say that its today its more expensiv to make games becouse this is not true.... most of the resources are wastet for Graphics or PR and look at games like Minecraft or Castle Crashers.


Forum Posts: 78
Comment #54 by TheHobbitGamer
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 10:14:58 AM
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If it hits the bargain bin early, how does that affect 38 Studios? When the games are in the store, the publisher has already been paid. The only thing that really affects the publisher/dev is if the consumers are excited about the game and it starts flying off the shelves in the first 2 weeks and it prompts retailers to purchase more copies. It's still a new game when its in the bargain bin, so people still get the pass.


Forum Posts: 582
Comment #55 by rrushn
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 10:15:20 AM
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Once more, it seems all the best CEO's are whoring achievements and ranting on this site, while completely incompetent people fail to run a successful company.

That, or most of you haven't got a single clue about economics.


I'm going for the latter.


Forum Posts: 255
Comment #56 by IronBrutzler
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 10:15:28 AM
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@50
Okay i got your Point but it is not our fault that the Game Devs dont have own shops so we could sell the games back to them.


Forum Posts: 64
Comment #57 by Death shrimp X
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 10:15:53 AM
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If they can't make a game thats good enough to make loads of people buy it day one then they deserve it to be in the bargin bin. I thought it was turd anyway


Forum Posts: 27
Comment #58 by DJLight890
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 10:23:37 AM
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@56 Yea, I was just trying to get people to understand a little better. Developers and retailers do need to work something out, otherwise these debates and arguments will just keep coming.

I read somewhere that there is minor talk of deals that could be made between devs and retail stores, but I don't remember where I read this. Maybe I'll try to look it up.


Forum Posts: 137
Comment #59 by reddragon6288
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 10:25:35 AM
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@47

I have seen those names after the game is finished. Hell I've been seeing those names for over 20 years after every game I've played, but you're going to tell me that money from an Online Pass is making sure that they continue to be paid? So you're telling me that all these companies couldn't afford their employees back when there wasn't the pass and games were only $50? I understand that newer games are requiring more people to work on them, but that was the reasoning behind kicking the $50 up to $60. Because they did it before as well. Games at one point in time cost $30. But the part that annoys me the most is on those that pay for an online service (Xbox Live) and pay for a rental service (GameFly) get hit up by these hurting companies to pay extra for a service that is on the same disc as all previous games have done.

The sad thing is, other things may happen from this. One being the rumor about the new Microsoft system. The rumor being that all games must be bought brand new in order to even play the game. Therefore all borrowed, rented, and used games won't work on the system. At this point in time, the rumor was left at that and more likely could include that there will be a fee to re-activate the games on a different console.

This I find problematic as well. Is when we have LAN parties and everyone meets up over at a friends house and brings a copy of a game we intend to play. Or households that have more than one Xbox... Oops I put the disc into the wrong Xbox in order to play. Such crap. So are you going to defend this one as well, and say that the companies are not hurting, and just need to pay their employees over your inconvenience?

But just to clarify, I am not whining, I am making a point that this is not worth it for the companies in the long run. They will lose out to their customers, because they will just not choose to buy their product.


Forum Posts: 2200
Comment #60 by cheevo360
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 10:26:12 AM
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Preordered already with The Darkness II. Of course EA have my money for this game.

World of Hell with Jackie with excitement missions - The Darkness II

Beautiful world turn into troubles with awesome Action RPG - KOA: Reckoning.

Cannot wait for both next week!!


Forum Posts: 2200
Comment #61 by cheevo360
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 10:27:14 AM
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2K Games and EA Games will battle in between next week as well lol


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Comment #62 by DJLight890
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 10:29:29 AM
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@52 You're right. My bad, I was jsut throwing out names. But still my point works the same. EA wont get those used game sales and without those sales, they couldn't pay Bioware a percentage or however they have it set up.

They really should have just said, "With the purchase of our game brand new, you will get a code to download a questline as bonus content at no extra charge. However, if you buy the game used, you can still purchase this questline for a small fee." The people who buy used usually buy the game for $40 or less so even if the questline was $5 or even $10, they are still saving money.


Forum Posts: 27
Comment #63 by DJLight890
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 10:32:53 AM
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@51 Somewhere on the internet the devs confirmed about 200 hours of gameplay so I would say people are getting their moneys worth.


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Comment #64 by Vigor
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 10:40:20 AM
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# Why so mad then, simple mind.


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Comment #65 by quidy123
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 10:43:05 AM
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why cant they just add in codes for the content like other games have, no wonder so many people are complaining about it, there adding an online pass to a single player game. its funny how other titles can make a profit without the use of online passes


Forum Posts: 174
Comment #66 by speed gun
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 10:49:35 AM
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this is just making money off people who have already bought the game how is it free stuff when we're paying for it and the online pass is for online play multiplayer this game doesnt have it. if theyre so bothered about making profit and not going away then make a good game and keep the buyers happy without ripping them of
#62 is rite give free things to people who buy new and charge a bit for those who buy used not take out a part of the game and say its free


Forum Posts: 163
Comment #67 by RobotHacker
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 10:59:16 AM
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Id rather give the developers my cash than those greedy fuckers at GAME or Gamestation any day


Forum Posts: 615
Comment #68 by theNomad
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 11:04:22 AM
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I was buying this game (even had it pre-ordered) until I read this news, screw them I hate it but kind of understand for a game that needs to pay server fees. For a single player game this practice totally sucks and I hope their greed backfires on them.


Forum Posts: 1187
Comment #69 by ExtremeRugburn
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 11:20:05 AM
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Schilling explained the reasoning behind the online pass perfectly. Their is nothing wrong with what they are doing from a business perspective. Here are some realities...

1) Games are overpriced which is why alot of people buy used.

2) Buying used games instead of new games decreases developer revenue, which in turn has led to online passes and the price of games increasing.

3) People who have the money and buy new are rewarded, with EXTRA content.

4) People who bitch about this shouldnt, because you can still buy the game used, for less. You dont need the extra content to enjoy the full game.

5) Digital Download will solve all this bullshit whinning and possibly still make most people happy. How you ask? With digital download production cost will be less (not having to produce all those disc)which may lower consumer price. No "used" games, instead after a period of time the developer will lower the cost of the game, thus those who cant afford it new can buy it later at a reduced price, but since you are still downloading it from the company they are receiving the revenue and not some third party like Gamestop. For people without internet, wake up and join the 21st century!


Forum Posts: 39
Comment #70 by Rodeo Legend
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 11:25:05 AM
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I support 38. If they need a few dollars from me so they don't loose thier jobs, I can understand that.


Forum Posts: 615
Comment #71 by theNomad
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 11:30:06 AM
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@69 and all those mindless zombies thumbs upping comments supporting these greed passes.

Your not getting at the other point, these online passes limit the game per user, so if your a family or share the console with other people they each would need a pass. Its not all about buying the game trade-in or not. Its a very greedy practice that needs to be stamped out, kinda easy to bypass buying this game but not sure I can with Mass Effect 3 which will surely have its own inbuilt pass.


Forum Posts: 714
Comment #72 by Bajan Elite
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 11:35:27 AM
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@26 This is not entirely true, look at the list of great games that didn't sell well. Many were brand new Ips. Sequels to games that sold great are the type of games that stand a better chance of making more money for developers and publishers. Critical Hits like Rayman Origins, Alan Wake etc. There are a lot of big name titles that sequels that these brand new franchises have to compete with. COD, Mass Effect, Anything by Rockstar, Capcom's franchises.

@66 It was stated that the dlc is not on the disk, it is dlc they made after the game went gold. They are giving it for free to the people who buy new, if the people who buy used want to experience this optional quest then they will have to pay for it. There is no need for anyone to complain, this isn't like a pass for multiplayer. This doesn't lock out a portion of the singleplayer that you need to complete in order to finish the game, it allows you to download an optional quest for free. If this dlc was coming out day one and everyone who wanted to get it had to pay then you could probably complain.


Forum Posts: 468
Comment #73 by GDMFS0AB
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 11:35:38 AM
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When things are tough for a business most companies will do the best to get the customer back into the store or back to buying.

This is usully from lowering prices or doing special deals.

Game devs seem to be going in the other direction. Restricting their "beloved" fans from what they are entitled to. A great gaming experience.

They should lower rrp prices and see if that works.

Soon i wont be able to complete a game fully because i didn't buy new.

Imagine getting to the 2nd last chapter in a game and then nothing. Buy this pass. That would kind of suck.

Although i want devs to keep making games i love. Let the millionaire publishers take the hit.

Or manage to keep the faith of your publishers. So that they are happy to finance your game.

First of all. Lower RRP see if that works. Try something different now. Pass has not worked.


Forum Posts: 54
Comment #74 by DDDLOTS
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 11:36:51 AM
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To everyone out there crying "I can't believe they are doing this to the fans..." NEWSFLASH! You aren't fans. This isn't the second or third sequel to the franchise it is a brand new IP and has yet to establish a fanbase. If you are a "fan" you will buy this game new to support a new IP. A true fan would be supportive of the developer so they can become profitable and live to see the second or third installment. If money is an issue try working an extra hour at work to offset the cost of a new game.


Forum Posts: 468
Comment #75 by GDMFS0AB
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 11:40:21 AM
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@74 - How can i be a fan if it's a new IP - You are contradicting yourself.

If it's a new IP then a demo should be on the marketplace to allow us to try it out.

And the dev hasnt done much apart from PC stuff for anyone to really be a "fan"


Forum Posts: 1185
Comment #76 by MartyMcFly
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 11:43:08 AM
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He made some fair points, but Curt Schilling is still a loud-mouthed douchebag.


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Comment #77 by Bajan Elite
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 12:02:28 PM
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@75 There is a demo out, it has been out for a few weeks now.


Forum Posts: 115
Comment #78 by Dragonmaster700
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 12:08:18 PM
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Dont have a single problem with this online pass, and plan to buy the game new day 1. I think Arkham Citys pass was worse, they showed off the Catwoman stuff for months before saying it was for new purchases only.


Forum Posts: 16
Comment #79 by gldnbomb1
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 12:08:25 PM
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No thanks, I will just have my friend who works at blockbuster give me all the online codes that come with there copies and I will give them to friends, screw the online pass.


Forum Posts: 714
Comment #80 by Bajan Elite
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 12:15:08 PM
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@79 Yes let your friend risk getting caught and fired for stealing.


Forum Posts: 714
Comment #81 by Bajan Elite
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 12:18:03 PM
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@73 No one is being restricted, did you even read the article? The side quest is optional, it won't keep you from completing the game. You don't have to play it. This is a Bonus for buying the game name and supporting the devs and publishers.


Forum Posts: 657
Comment #82 by BBowles
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 12:21:35 PM
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@ ANYONE using the car analogy. Yes, you DO give money to the car manufacturer when you buy a used car. Used cars need repairs, and even if you buy the parts from Autozone, that part still says Ford or Chevy right on it. Every car gets repaired at some point, so the makers receive money until the day that car is junked. Either way, they are still getting you're money. So stop using broken analogies that DISPROVE your stupid ass theory and try another one.

Full support of online passes here. I have no issues funding the developers. That's probably why I've never EVER had to buy an online pass. Support the developers and buy new, or quit bitching.


And to everyone who complains about not being able to afford a $60 game...that's life. I'd like to buy every new sports car that comes out, but I can't. I'd like to take a vacation every other week. Should they discount the cars/vacations just because I personally can't afford them? No. Same goes for games. Buy them new, or deal with the used industry as it is. Does it suck that you miss out on some games? Yes, yes it does. Life's not fair, you are not entitled to whatever you want for whatever you want to pay. Buying a used game for $30 and spending $10 more for an online pass too much? Don't buy it. No one is forcing you to use their product.

I fully believe the developers should get money from each unique person that plays their game, regardless how many use the same copy. I'm a console gamer, always have been. Some of you need to look at pc games more closely. You want CD keys for console games in the future? That's the way its heading with all this non-sensical bitching just because you think you should get to play every game at the price you desire.


Forum Posts: 28
Comment #83 by MustaPastori
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 12:30:30 PM
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Biggest load of horse manure I've heard in a while. Someone just figured out how to squish a bit more cash from a game with no extra effort. Now when people complain about that, they try and make it look like they're doing their "fans" a service. Fuck that shit.

I'm going to E-mail some movie companies about this sort of thing. Maybe they could implement similar "services for their fans".. New copies of movies on BD and DVD come with a one time use pass code that lets you see extra scenes of the movie (of course cut from the finished film). Sounds good, right? Tbey just want a few bucks more so that they won't go bankrupt.

Same with music of course. Want to hear the complete album? Use the unlock code that comes with a new cd. Sounds great! They're just doing it for the fans!

And they dare publicly complain how piracy is ruining everything.. They're doing it to themselves.

/end rant


Forum Posts: 18
Comment #84 by FeyenoordMike
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 12:33:38 PM
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The problem with games (imho) is that, unlike most products out there, there's no real quality to price ratio( i'm sorry but i don' know the exact wording for this, i hope you know what i mean). Any game that comes out here in the Netherlands is € 60, so the problem is: with so much games being made these days, there's just to much choice if you ask me.
And most people obviously choose the games they know or expect to be the best.
If this game would retail at about €50 or €40 people would be more willing to give it a chance. I personally buy 99% of my games new, but most of these are sequels and I know I would give it a chance to buy new at a lower price..


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Comment #85 by HacSaw
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 12:42:10 PM
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I planned on buying this so whatever...I want to see where this company goes so I will support Curt and the crew.


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Comment #86 by Intoxicatious
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 12:47:51 PM
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The biggest problems are:

1) Customers don't have enough money to buy every piece of new electronic that is out there. We have simply drenched ourselves in products. This is OK, though. I don't know when humans thought they were "entitled" to buy everything on a store shelf. Sometimes you have to make a financial choice.

2) Game stores make little money off of retail games. Much like a movie theatre makes little money off of ticket sales. They have to make money off of concession. Likewise, game stores try to make money off of used games sales and promotions like disc insurance.

Also, since I worked at a Blockbuster, I know that most movie studios did not condone the resale of previously rented movies. We had to "field destroy" (literally destroy) Disney movies that were finished in their renting cycle. We also could only have a limited amount of Disney rentals at one store at any given time.


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Comment #87 by l.maciver
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 12:49:05 PM
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stupid online passes, here's one for you instead of the online pass how about no online achievements and dev stop puttin crap out and make a good game for a change. With no online achievements people wouldnt give a crap about EA servers unless it was fifa ofcourse and the standard of games just dont match the asking price.

aslong as someone buys it new you have made a profit, then sell/trade it to a gamestore, now they need to make a profit.


Forum Posts: 91
Comment #88 by bearmod
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 01:00:08 PM
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Not too concerned with this. I hardly ever buy used games, they just feel like such a rip off to me cause if you buy a used copy of a game that was released recently most places only charge like 10 or 15 bucks less and I personally would rather spring for the few extra bucks and get a sealed copy. And the games that have this onlie pass stuff is usually an extra 10 bucks anyways so you might as well just buy a new copy


Forum Posts: 333
Comment #89 by angryassasin857
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 01:02:00 PM
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so does this mean if I buy the game used I will NOT be able to get the full 1000 gamerscore in it? or will these "reward" missions have seperate achievements from the original 1000?


Forum Posts: 397
Comment #90 by Lord Arkhan
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 01:05:15 PM
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My problem with an online pass is that I already pay to play online so why should I have to pay again? If every game is going to have an online pass then what the hell are we paying Microsoft for?


Forum Posts: 553
Comment #91 by Hansathan
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 01:07:11 PM
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I got your back, Curt. Had this preordered and paid for, in full, for a month now. I don't mind paying full price for GOOD new IPs


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Comment #92 by theNomad
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 01:07:19 PM
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#82 do you not listen to the whole story, its not just the $60/£40 retail price, these online greed passes force familys and households with more than one games player to pay extra for each member wanting to play the game fully. You think thats fair for a parent who has already spent $60 on the product in the first place, because most level headed people don't I'm personally boycotting this title now, which is a shame because it seemed like a pretty good game.


Forum Posts: 298
Comment #93 by ViNyLek
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 01:08:56 PM
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@#89 Don't you have more important things to worry about in life?

OT: I fully support that, I never buy games used and truth be told not always buy them right away, but always buy them brand new. I don't resell I collect. I show devs that their work is appreciated unlike 75% of the gaming market that all they do is rent, rent, rent and maybe buy used every now and then.... If it wasn't for us few, we would not have too many games to play, tbh... Keep up the good work, you know who you are=)


Forum Posts: 86
Comment #94 by NerfTurbo
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 01:13:11 PM
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I love the "holier than thou" tone of the idiots spending full retail on their games. $60 for a 7-8 hour campaign? It makes no sense. I'm not referring to the game in question but than again neither are 80% of the comments on this thread. Calling people "cheapskate-esque" remarks only solidifies that you are probably not getting laid.
Now, on the topic of Kingdom.. I'm still unsure that this game will work 100% albeit.. I just played the demo, but I encountered several game-breaking glitches. That damn file took 3 hours to download. (Internet was slow that night)
Either way I would definitely wait a few months and let the chumps eager to spend $65 find all the broken achievements in this Fable rip-off.
I will add that I did enjoy the parts of the demo that worked.


Forum Posts: 714
Comment #95 by Bajan Elite
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 01:16:58 PM
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@82 Exactly man, the only thing about the online pass is that it effects people who rent and the game doesn't offer a free trial. Despite the fact that developers are putting out good, great and outstanding games. They don't always make back the amount of money the put into making the game. Then the game gets sold to places like gamestop, who pay less than half for it then charge $5 less than the retail price of a new copy. They then sell that game to someone who plays it and holds on to it for a month or so, then they take the game back to gamestop. Gamestop pays less than half the amount once again, and places the game back on the shelf for the same $54.99. Once again someone else pays for that used game. That's twice gamestop has now sold that game used for $5 less than it new retail price and the developers didn't get a cent. One copy game isn't a lot but when you have thousands of used copies being bought at retailers, sold back and bought again it all adds up. It is clear the developers are losing out on a lot of money here. You want the developers to support you the gamer, the fans, you want them to make the game the way you want. Yet you don't want to support them, when it comes to used games. Making games isn't a hobby, its a full time job that is supposed to keep roofs over their heads and food for them and their families.

If paying the extra five dollars, is asking too much then wait until you can spare the extra five. If you don't want to wait buy it used then, but don't complain about the online pass. You bought it used and the developer didn't get a cent, therefore you didn't support them. Playing their game doesn't mean the publishers will fund them more money for a sequel or keep them around. Go ahead buy the game used but you should buy that online pass. Give some of your money to developer (when you have it to spend), that's your way of saying thank you for making this game now here go make more.


Forum Posts: 12
Comment #96 by mrhobo
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 01:17:41 PM
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reading some of these comments makes me lol, apparently some people just dont understand business, and i laugh when they try to explain how the money trail for used/new games work when they are completely wrong


Forum Posts: 333
Comment #97 by angryassasin857
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 01:19:37 PM
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@# 93...........@#89 Don't you have more important things to worry about in life? says the guy with 127,110 gamerscore lol , this is an achievement website !!!! get over it dumbass ! yes I want to know this seeing how I am debating wether or not to spend 60 bucks on this game, I collect too, your not special, despite what your parents have told you.


Forum Posts: 311
Comment #98 by AgentOrange330
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 01:20:41 PM
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So what about people who have numerous people playing a game in a single household. My wife and I both own 360's and everytime this happens we end up having to either buy two copies or pay extra for another online pass. These things are trivial when you're the only one dealing with it but when you have multiple gamers in one house this really becomes terrible. I really wish the industry would come up with something else to deal with the preowned problem.


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Comment #99 by c8nn8r
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 01:24:13 PM
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I think its good developers are up front about the situation. Games such as alice did this too. And the battle codes in dead space 2 and homefront are the same thing and nobody bitched about that.


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Comment #100 by Q Dawg187
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 01:28:08 PM
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Especially when it comes to single player games (this,mass effect 2) it makes it look more and more apparent that companies arent selling you the full game.DLC is bad enough,be it day one,or planned as a major part from the get go,these days.And this is just reinforcing the entire "we're selling you 75% of the game at retail" until the % gets even lower and lower.


Forum Posts: 469
Comment #101 by francisrossi
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 01:29:37 PM
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I don't give a hoot about "supporting" people. They don't support me in return. I buy games for myself. Selfish maybe, but realistic.


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Comment #102 by Super Squirrel
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 01:32:50 PM
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Comment #2 is bang on.


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Comment #103 by Lukeweizer
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 01:36:56 PM
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That's what my friend doesn't understand. Game studios make no money off used games and it doesn't add to their sales numbers. Rage did this same thing though, don't know why people are freaking out now.


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Comment #104 by Bajan Elite
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 01:42:41 PM
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@94 How much money do you people think goes into the development of video games and marketing? What we are spending is nothing compared to what they spent. I understand many people can't drop $65 on a new game every time but everyone needs to understand that a lot of money goes into the games. Let's a game called X made $1 million in sales, now that money has to be divided amongst the developers, the person they hired to write the story, the voice actors and publishers who not only funded the development of the game but also spent money marketing it as well. The publishers actually spent over $2 million to fund and market game X, so they lost money. Now sales are slowing down there are tons of new copies available on retail shelves but no one is rushing to spend $60 on game X even though its critical hit. The game is being returned to retailers and sold used faster than its being sold new. This game is still selling but because its mostly being sold used the developers and publishers are not getting anything out of it. These used sales are now making it more and more difficult for game X to pass the $2 million sales mark and the publisher still haven't been able to make back the money they spent. So everyone involved is getting paid less than they should.


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Comment #105 by speed gun
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 01:46:18 PM
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#72
this doesnt block out a portoin of the game that u need to play to get to the end but so what
this is a rpg a lot of quests in this game wont have to be completed to get to the end
does that mean they can cut out all the sidequests and then sell them or give them free. no they are still a part of the game
they can say they made the new questline after if went gold but if they were so scared about losing their jobs they would wait for returns from this game and then make this questline


Forum Posts: 714
Comment #106 by Bajan Elite
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 01:49:44 PM
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@101 Really so making a video game that caters to you and allows you to keep yourself busy when you are bored or looking to have fun or for some competitive action is not supporting you? Making something so you are entertained is not supporting you?


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Comment #107 by asilent boom
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 01:50:07 PM
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@12 Used cars and used games are completely different and can't be compared. For one when you buy the car it's titled to you, you own that car. Used games are just playable copies of a game, the digital rights to that game are still owned by the developer/publisher.


Forum Posts: 714
Comment #108 by Bajan Elite
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 02:00:06 PM
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@105 Then there wouldn't be a bonus incentive to buy the game new. Get the game full price, get free bonus content. Your suggestion makes no sense, this is to make money off of used purchases but they will also make more money when people buy the games brand new. Would you rather them release the dlc and charge you regardless of if you bought it new or used. No you wouldn't.


Forum Posts: 141
Comment #109 by Rastaman20
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 02:04:21 PM
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indeed i agree with curt, look at how many of the great videogame companies we love dissapear because they dont make enough profit to survive let alone make another game and in this days and age if the game you make aint top notch quality and is a flop your fucked so they have to make a profit, sertin features dont need the online pass I.M.O. like Co-op online but i think the pass should rather open up the full featured online not just lock it out completely but thats my M.O. lol

but yes they're getting my support im pickin it up next week lol


Forum Posts: 40
Comment #110 by Richmyster6907
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 02:13:20 PM
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I like reading about how everyone thinks they are money grabbing assholes well get with it guys these guys don't make games out of the kindness of their hearts they are here to make some motherfucking money deal with it.


Forum Posts: 174
Comment #111 by speed gun
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 02:15:20 PM
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#108 theres nothing wrong with my suggestion it makes sense read the post that it is aimed at and u'll understand
anyway about these good video game companies yes they make good games and they still sometimes fail but thats because they're priced too high. then people have to wait for them to drop price and the companies lose a lot of money when people buy used in stead of lowering prices they charge more and find extra ways of charging for something you already paid for


Forum Posts: 345
Comment #112 by mksystem74
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 02:21:20 PM
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If there's one thing about Curt Shilling you can bank on its honesty, he won't try to BS you and he always firmly believes what he believes in and says. I don't mind the game industry trying to make sales, its THEIR games, what they can do to make as much money they can, more power to them. I mainly rent games, when I see a Online Pass I cringe, but I deal with it, I figure if I'm not spending the $60 on the game, its on me. But they can at least give a 2 week online trial to get you interested and go "ok, I think its worth $60". I don't even mind these passes having content in them, if you're spending $60 on the game and the game developers want to reward you for spending the money on that game.... Its great, I don't see how it makes them... what's the term? "money grubbing assholes"? That's just wrong and ignorant.


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Comment #113 by DJ Ramir
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 02:25:18 PM
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Microsoft and Epic Games start doing this with Gears of War 3, Horde Command Pack is already on Disc it's just locked like many characters Like Trashball Drone, and maybe many other stuff are on Gears of War 3 Disc. The problem here is that I love GoW3 if not and not buying this games with content blocked and paying for it later.


Forum Posts: 298
Comment #114 by ViNyLek
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 02:45:29 PM
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@#97 I actually have more like 144K right now, but this website does not update it, "dumbass". So you think the game is only worth getting for achievements? You may have an impression (which follows your thinking, in one word - wrong) that I play for achievements, but you'd be dead wrong and I never even consider that one thing when buying game, DLC I want. I may no be special, but I sure have better priorities than you do.


Forum Posts: 108
Comment #115 by Slayinfool
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 02:51:42 PM
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Whatever.. If I decide to buy this game it won't be till later on when the price drops. I stopped paying 60+ dollars for games alongtime ago. I can wait, I don't need to play every game on it's release date.

If they are so worried about the survival of the company maybe they should reconsider the $59.99 price? The difference between Gears of War or Mass Effect is that those games are established titles and have a large fan base. When I played the demo for KOA and experienced a ton of glitches and problems. They haven't sold me on this game anyway. Now I feel alienated so they aren't off to a good start imo.


Forum Posts: 3051
Comment #116 by Dirty130
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 02:54:28 PM
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Shit aside.. Single player game. Online pass? Find a better way to recoup your costs for Christ's sake!


Forum Posts: 231
Comment #117 by Infomouse
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 03:01:41 PM
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Here's a thought. Don't limit the content on the disk for anyone and make a great game so less people will trade it in. Then, when less used copies of the game are available, more people will buy it new. Finally, don't add shit content at extra charge and complain it's the gamers' fault your game won't sell well. If not, go fuck yourself and your games, continue to screw over the customers, and we'll see who is still around in a year.


Forum Posts: 605
Comment #118 by pauly_27
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 03:02:31 PM
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"To promote early adopters and MUCH MORE IMPORTANT TO ME, REWARD fans and gamers who commit to us with their time and money when it benefits the company.

"Every single person on the planet could wait and not buy Reckoning, the game would hit the bargain bin at some point and you could get it cheaper. 38 Studios would likely go away.

"That's just how business works. We MUST make a profit to become what we want to become. THE ONLY way we do that is to make games you CANNOT WAIT TO BUY! If we do that, and you do that, we want to reward you with some cool free stuff as a thank you."

But how is offering up content that is already on the disc rewarding the fans? At least give them exclusive content. Meanwhile, pirates will be laughing their asses off when they get all this content for free.

If you have that little confidence in your game to make such a stupid comment about everyone waiting for it to hit the bargain bin, then 38 studios probably should just go away anyway. Devs were making plenty of money before the "online pass" but now suddenly they are all playing the "poor us" card - BS. Step up and make good games that people want to play, or just leave the industry - you won't be missed.


Forum Posts: 345
Comment #119 by mksystem74
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 03:04:27 PM
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one thing missing from this article...


"The House of Valor content was not in the finished game/disc at one point, then removed. It isn’t there and we’re locking you out of it. The House of Valor was created as stand-alone content, and was always intended to be the first DLC. Instead of holding onto it and charging for it later, we opted to give it to everyone who purchases the game new, for free, on launch day,"


And people would be happy its called an Online Pass, Gamestop has been generous in the past to buy online passes for you at no extra cost.


Forum Posts: 1185
Comment #120 by MartyMcFly
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 03:07:51 PM
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I pay only $24 a month for Gamefly and buy Online Passes. $34-$44 a month to play the quality games I want, while supporting companies of all types is fine for me.

People who complain about a $10 Online Pass should think about what else they "waste" money on. Dunkin' Donuts for morning coffee, McDonald's for lunch, $8 tall beers at Applebees?

Next time you think you can't afford a $10 Online Pass, try skipping the appetizer/dessert instead.


Forum Posts: 759
Comment #121 by PANIC ATTACK 10
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 03:11:49 PM
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i have ALOT to say about this. so i hope i have the space. also i would hope people stop using these thumbs crap.

now as for devs feeling the money pinch. hey back in the 70-80s we didnt have this crap. we had dentals, used games,extra. companies made great games & didnt bitch about it. its not our fault for going the cheaper route. games are more expensive now than ever before. so dont lay your finacial burden on the customer. i'm totally against this pass/online pass crap. sega,nintendo,atari & may other brand names did great back then. i cant stand companies trying the " please feel sorry for us crap", thats what my girlfriend/fiancee is for, lol.

as far as i'm concerned, this is why EA & others i avoid. i cant stand how they do biz. i buy my games new, cheap bins, heard to find titles used. some games you need to buy used. i'm not buying this now out of pure principle. they bitch about no money, extra. go get a biz loan then or something. also what happens if we dont want xbl anymore? then what happens to our games we buy? new or used? this is a serious concern to the customer. as stated the industry is lost right now. it has no direction. paying extra, no matter what, is just wrong. we work hard & should have the choice on how to buy any media. what next i have to pay extra to watch my dvd rental?


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Comment #122 by Neomalysys
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 03:19:16 PM
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Played the demo last night and I'm now going to pre-order the game just so I can get the Gamestop bonus content. If you don't think this game is worth the money play the demo then decide. The only reason people complain is because gamers have become entitled to what they feel is a better deal from used games. It can take over a year for a game to drop below the 50-60 dollar range. Gamestop often sales used games for 55 dollars for months after the release and where I live with sales tax your looking at still paying over 60 dollars for the game. People also don't think about finding an awesome game used then finding out that the studio was shuttered because they didnt make enough sales when the game came out. I don't have a lot of money and I can still afford to buy most of my games new. It's probably been over a year now since I last bought a used game.


Forum Posts: 52
Comment #123 by LJParnell
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 03:22:58 PM
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I understand his point about making money / profit. But why does the video game industry want to function differently then most other industries. When I sell my car, the manufacturer does not make any money on that. When I sell a book, old mobile phone, paintings, etc. on eBay the manufacturer does not get any money for that.

They need to embrace the used game market and game rental companies. The Movie industry went through the similar pains back in the 80s with Blockbuster, etc. They fought it at first, but then realized it was a solid revenue stream and embraced it. It has allowed many more movies to be made because they know they can count on so much from that part of the business.

With the Online Pass stuff that most are going to, it will only hurt it in the long run. Because us, the gamers, only have so much to spend on games. So instead of buying 10 used games, we will buy 1 new game. That is nine games we will not play, ones that we might find interesting and become hooked on that game, story, the developer, or whatever.

For example, I was late to Gears of War. I bought Gears 2 used, liked the game, bought Gears 1 used, so then when Gears 3 came out I was hooked and bought it new. If used games were not allowed or too expensive, I would have never bought Gears 2, never got hooked on the story and the game and never bought Gears 3. There are a ton of other games to play.


Forum Posts: 14
Comment #124 by beebs720
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 03:24:55 PM
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I don't know why this continues to be an issue. Developers are going to find ways to protect their product. From a business standpoint, it makes perfect sense, and anyone who complains about it apparently does not understand profit and loss. The bottom line is making money (Going Concern), and it is too bad some people just do not want to see it or get it. I want them to succeed, as the game looks incredible, and it would be great to see more from 38 Studios in the future.

If you have a big issue with it, buy the game used. You will still be able to play it, just minus some expansions.


Forum Posts: 0
Comment #125 by Seed Of Hate
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 03:25:03 PM
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I think a lot of you are missing the point. The bottom line is we are the consumers and we should dictate the fair market value of games. We own that copy of the game and we should have a right to sell that copy of the game. They do not own every future use and right to that disc once its sold. If you make a great game you wont need an online pass or any other fees because people will stand in line for hours at midnight to buy your game day one.

The line they use that they wont make any money is a crock of shat. If you made a game worth $60 people would buy it day one. If you make a short weak and crappy game and try and pass it off to us for $60 there is now way people are going to buy it new day one.

If the game developers want our money then make the game good and make it at fair market value. Enough of the online passes and day one DLC for more money.

You people supporting this should realize that this is getting out of hand and before long they will be adding more and more fees....because your all sheep and follow along with it


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Comment #126 by silentwolf15
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 03:32:14 PM
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my only problem with this is the fact that they bragged about giving us extra stuff for playing through the demo then they take it away unless you buy the game brand new? pretty lame anyways im still renting it idc for the "dlc" or the demo armor they aint getting any money from me :P


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Comment #127 by silentwolf15
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 03:33:28 PM
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o and mw3 didnt have an online pass and still sold millions of copies so good luck throwing that "we wont make money" crap ^_^


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Comment #128 by LemonShogun
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 03:46:43 PM
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While I can see the sense of offering extra DLC for free for people who bought the game new, pre-ordered or the limited editions, I can't really agree with it when the game is not whole without that content, i.e. multiplayer passes. Even if I buy a game used, usually because I'm a bit short on money because of a little thing called the recession, which the rest of the world, game developers included, is suffering from, I do feel thankful if the developers allow me to experience the whole game, as it was meant to be played. As such, I'm then more inclined to keep playing the game, purchasing the DLC along the way and maybe buy more titles in the series new, which will be my thanks to the developer for a great game experience. I do feel like the developers are cheating me out of a game by taking a key part of the game out for used buyers or offline players, and probably won't continue to support that developer.

If developers want to make money out of the used game market, then they may be better off making more quality DLC for their games, as people will pay extra for them anyway, or perhaps negotiating with the used game market to receive a percentage of used sales for games they developed as a royalty, rather than making enemies of the people that they depend on for their income, and their survival. Rule Number One of business has always been 'The customer is always right' and it seems that some developers may have forgotten this.


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Comment #129 by silentwolf15
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 04:00:33 PM
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and for all you idiots saying "this is the future of games" it will be cause u idiots allow it to be following blindly like lil sheep while the game studio screws you over you allow this by not standing up the fact is this online pass is going to lead to this rumored "anti-used games system" which basically entitles game companies to dictate what you do with your game after youve bought it its yours not theirs they have no right to it after you dish out the money to buy it so yea continue to support this whats going to happen is when this "anti used games system" comes out it will be the death of video games cause no one but you lil blin sheep is gonna buy it and its not enough to keep them aloft so good job


Forum Posts: 2200
Comment #130 by cheevo360
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 04:05:16 PM
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Demo already show how game is good and they already fixes lots of bugs before full version releases. No need crying over and over repeats about Online Pass. Just get new with content or used with no content. Online Pass is way to go since 4 years if I am correct!!! If really need new content with this game YEAH GO FOR IT!!!

For 1st reason:

If kids with not enough money then can ask parents to ask nicely. But really parents not have do it since game is 15 yrs old and above. So better stay away from adult games really. But yah lots of modern times like myself in my past yah that is normal then. If have some games that finished or not liked then trade in games to get good credits to buy new.

If students with not much money then simple save up or borrow parents money by asking nicely. Also trade in games and earn credits in store and raise it up to enough to buy new.

Older people with not much money simple just save money or trade in games.

If people who are drinkings or smokings too much then quit drinkings or smokings to get this game or other games with new if like or trade in games to get credits.

Simple as that. That how you need money for online pass and no need complaint or issues with it. Just accept and do it like me and others. :)

2nd reason:

Publishers and Developers need money to raise up all times to keep games goings by DLCs it. More money help them to making new games in future. Keep their business all times. Also they want keep players to enjoy their games and will like help them with update versions to patches the bugs, glitches and stuffs depending they can do about it, not every games do it but lots did. Also they want bring news, updates, secrets, behind the scene or making of, exclusive stuffs, free stuffs or DLCs for Online Pass.

That way go on and on for Online Pass!!!

I use my bank card to pay new games most times and use GAME Gift cards in GAME store to buy new games. I alway buy new/preorder games. Sometime I get used games for bought some crap games to get achievements or I missed few old games and want catch up on it.

So yeah I wanna more of online pass in future to bring lots of excitement of exclusive stuffs. :):)

Also free stuffs sometime if use online pass!!!


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Comment #131 by silentwolf15
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 04:12:27 PM
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one last point: EA supported sopa is this the company you really want trying to define the future of video games?


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Comment #132 by TRAGICTRIXIE
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 04:36:47 PM
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just buy it used at gamestop, they give you an online pass for free with used games. They just put the code on your receipt.


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Comment #133 by Riphade 1
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 04:44:22 PM
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Except here's two VERY IMPORTANT flaws.

1.) Your game (as amazing as I thought the demo was) will hit the bargain bins a lot sooner since there are enough people fighting against Online Passes. A lot of websites are already displaying MANY members boycotting this game. Online passes for SP should never happen.

2.) You want to give us free content? Except, Microsoft more than likely will make you charge us for it.


Forum Posts: 557
Comment #134 by Des
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 04:46:22 PM
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Is it needed for achievements? No? Does it contain achievements? No? Don't give a fuck then. If it denies you achievements though...I thought about buying it, but shit like this, makes me say fuck that :)


Forum Posts: 173
Comment #135 by maur1c1o
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 05:11:52 PM
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SHIT GAME ANYWAY LOL PLUS EA SO WOULDENT REALLY LOOK TWICE AT IT


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Comment #136 by priwogic
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 05:34:18 PM
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this is only time i agree with alot other people with the you dont pay more when you buy anything else in the world second hand so why should you pay for computer games. charge for dlc thats fair enough.


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Comment #137 by V4R14N7
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 05:39:23 PM
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Couldn't have bought it used if someone didn't buy it before me


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Comment #138 by kaleido42
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 06:09:49 PM
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I love the idea of giving extra content as a reward to people that buy new! The only thing that ticks me off is when EA charges someone for an online pass (assuming they bought used) and then shut down the server shortly there after. Despite any terms that the user may agree to, the average consumer is going to have very little foreknowledge of an upcoming server closure when they pay for it. They should either ditch the online passes altogether (free dlc such as this is obviously an exception) or at least offer p2p to people that already have an online pass.


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Comment #139 by Jebus Fist
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 06:35:15 PM
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@#135 - If it doesn't deny or add achievements, then I won't really care either. Frankly, I don't see it denying the original 1000, but maybe adding. Some of you will hate my reasoning here, but I don't buy DLC if it doesn't add achievements (though I can name about 4 exceptions). The fact that I have an active account here should explain why I'm like that.

I prefer to buy new games, but I trade in old games to take the edge off. I only owe $16 for Mass Effect 3 and have FF13-2 paid for (screw the haters, I want more FF!!). I like to think I'm supporting the developers, but I am contributing to the used game issue. Trading in some games and only paying $20-$30 for a brand new title means I can afford more games. I do have a family, so spending $40 for 2 newer games (bought new), instead of $120, yeah, that adds up pretty fast. Trade-in specials and stacking bonuses also help a lot.


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Comment #140 by LovableCrazee
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 06:36:11 PM
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Great, and car dealerships will "reward" customers by giving them all 4 tires with their new car!!

I hope your online pass is worth it, you just lost a sale


Forum Posts: 553
Comment #141 by Hansathan
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 06:47:23 PM
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@76 Let's keep this on topic...no one cares if you're a Yankees fan, still "butthurt" as the kids say, at Schilling for 2004...


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Comment #142 by Marcus Flemming
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 06:52:41 PM
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Are there gonna be any characters with a bloody sock? (+1 for anyone who gets that reference)


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Comment #143 by Breakdownizzle
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 07:14:17 PM
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If you can't afford the game either get a job or grow up old enough to get a job, stop complaining like a Bum fo real... Anyways this game is going to be great and is a first day purchase for sure.


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Comment #144 by Corpse87
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 07:26:22 PM
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@144 wow your such a mature asshat,douchebag!


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Comment #145 by I Am Vengeance
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 07:26:51 PM
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Does the majority of this site not know how the economy works? If 38 studios doesnt make money then they go under just like we've seen so many before. If people are too poor (shit happens, the world is going down the shitter right now) or are just straight up cheap, then gaming is probably not a hobby you should invest in. When a game is new gamestop sells it for $5 cheaper then brand fucking new. So if you're either that cheap or overall stupid enough to pay that, you deserved to get the shaft on exclusive new content. If you wait and buy once the price drops and still buy the dlc, you're not paying as much as the people, myself included, that are going to buy this game day 1 anyways. Also I don't hear rage anymore on pre-order DLC. Why's that? Because people get that if you buy from [insert store here] you get this item. No one bitches about that. I haven't seen one person say they aren't gonna buy Mass Effect 3 new because of all the different pre-order stuff. Well whats the difference. Once the game is released you don't get that shit anyways. I bet that if you opened the package day 1 and saw a code that said "hey thanks for buying our game and supporting our company. Here's from free DLC that is not needed to complete the game in any way, shape, or form" you'd say "oh hey that's pretty sweet. Thanks." But because they titled it an "online" pass you all lose your fucking minds.

Sorry for anyone I offended, the topic of online passes and how people view them really sets me off. So feel free to thumb me down, which will only turn my comment grey, enticing people to read it more because they want to see what i said that was soo bad that people had to click a little button that does absolutely nothing.


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Comment #146 by Neomalysys
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 08:46:25 PM
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I love the I don't have internet argument some people use. My friend has to pay 50 dollars a month for internet that is slower than my 30 dollars a month subscription. Unless they are charging an absurd amount for internet just man up and get a job. I swear the real reason people are saying they aren't getting the game is because it's cool to boycott day one dlc/ online passes.


Forum Posts: 38
Comment #147 by Kroesis
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:34:38 PM
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Still find it funny that people compare motor vehicles to games.


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Comment #148 by SOTG Ace
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 09:56:09 PM
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Lets just see what this does for their sales. I predict decent sales but no where near the sales of Skyrim. If consumers didn't complain then we would be paying even more than we do now for less. Ask yourself, Would it be nice not to have online passes? Then stop buying those games, even used copies. I understand why they have the online pass, to make more money. Just don't bullshit us by saying you are doing it for the fans. Fans of this games should be the most upset, many because you are falling for the BS.


Forum Posts: 67
Comment #149 by Mr Drunknspider
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 10:08:34 PM
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Make a game worth buying new day one and I will buy it new. But if the finished product is anything like the glitched ass demo I'll wait for the bargain bin... Thumbs down me all you want but from the demo this game looks as good as fable 1 did almost ten years ago. I was going to wait on this before and their online pass fucking seals it for me...


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Comment #150 by DTG72
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 10:12:57 PM
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If you can't afford it you should stop playing games and get a job. I will buy new, however I have no problem with buying 2nd hand and purchasing the online pass. May work out cheaper anyway if you wait long enough.


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Comment #151 by flechetteXXX
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 10:35:07 PM
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Youre a fucking idiot if you think that game developers make money off of used games. The reason places like Gamestop stay in business is because of their used game market. When someone buys a game new from Gamestop for lets say 60 bucks Gamestop gets a portion of that. Then someone trades it in for maybe 20 bucks and Gamestop resales it for 50 bucks. Thats all profit for Gamestop. Developers dont see a dime from used sales thats the reason they have to combat it with shit like online passes in the first place. If you are pissed about all the content you DONT get when you buy a used game then fucking BUY IT NEW. If you dont buy new then you cant fucking complain about how developers decide to run their businesses to make their money back because youre not supporting them by buying a used game. As other have stated if you cant afford it then maybe you should choose another hobby. Im not saying you cant enjoy video games Im just saying dont bitch because you dont understand how the industry works and you think you are somehow getting screwed when you are actually screwing the developers by buying used in the first fucking place. Seriously...


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Comment #152 by Optomistic
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 10:35:14 PM
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I don't have a problem with online passes. I DO have a problem with Day 1 DLC that you have to pay for. Online passes give you access to all the stuff on the disc for free (If you buy retail brand new that is). Day 1 DLC force you to pay extra for something on the disc (I'm looking at you Capcom) In fact the dlc is just an unlock key.


Forum Posts: 165
Comment #153 by xSavage Henry
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 10:45:35 PM
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There is no online, multiplayer or co-op. Are they fucking retarded. I was going to buy this game. New in fact. But not now. I wont even buy used. I have always hated EA and everything they have made. Its all just cheap rip-offs of good games. Everyone say goodbye to 38 Studios. This ruined them. Dumb fucks.


Forum Posts: 1212
Comment #154 by ZedChuva
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 11:08:51 PM
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This game aside (since the posts have all deviated anyway), since I have zero interest in it, my 2 Cents (which no one will care about anyway):

All this online pass bullshit is simply a money grab for the companies, plain and simple. An online MP game, they can "justify" it by crying about server costs, but a single player game, locking away "on disk" content? That's blackmail. What if all companies did this for everything? You buy a new movie, and it's fine. You buy it used, and the bonus content, special features and ending of the movie are locked until you "purchase" a pass.

This new year is truly a new year for me. I'm done buying new games, sic in one instance. A co-op game that the one friend I actually game with is also interested, and get fisted into buying new, or else you can't play online. That'll come down to maybe, 2 games, tops. Everything else will be used. Screw passes, screw companies holding content hostage for $10.

Have they also forgotten you can get around the online pass new shit simply by stealing the game? Hey, I don't condone it, and haven't done it, but trust me, this will increase the urge to actually STEAL, instead of being treated like a thief by purchasing used.


Forum Posts: 53
Comment #155 by Coruba
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 11:30:06 PM
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Who cares if you miss a small quest and some armor, it wont affect the gameplay, and if you're too cheap to buy it, then so be it, whats the whinging honestly about?


Forum Posts: 164
Comment #156 by brownstar ninja
Tuesday, January 31, 2012 @ 12:38:36 AM
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I don't care about the point, no one wants to spend $60 on a game that most of us are gonna beat, and then trade in and not get half for it...STOP BEING GREEDY, it's art, art doesn't have to be expensive...


Forum Posts: 3
Comment #157 by Eoth
Tuesday, January 31, 2012 @ 01:52:33 AM
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All I care about is wether the content is open to multiple accounts on the box. See that's what I really disliked about Batman AC Catwoman stuff. I bought the game day one but my wife, who also plays games on the same machine on her own account couldn't get the Catwoman stuff? That's just wrong imho.

Other than that you can view it from both sides. For games you get your money worth for 60,-. If you feel like the price is better at 40,- that is your right and the creator, be it dev or publisher, can't complain. But they set the price at which they want to sell and it is their right to use anything they want. It's like Sony giving away a free PS3 with a brand new big screen TV. People who don't buy the TV at that point need to buy the PS3 seperate. Noone complains about that not being fair either.

It's simply an incentive to get people to the store, just like any other offer. Honestly wether we like it or not it is still their call to say what will be on the disc or not. If we strongly disagree we can show this by not buying. As long as people are buying it they are showing support simple as that.

Personally I buy almost all my games new so I am not affected by these things. And no I do not promote this behaviour but I don't condemn it either. Business is business, I don't like the prices on a lot of stuff but my choice is simple I either buy it or I don't (or find cheaper ways).

Also this; Imagine people starting to tell you you're being too expensive for what you do for work or not fair in pricing would you lower your price? Or try convince people it is worth it?


Forum Posts: 44
Comment #158 by Solomon Fuere
Tuesday, January 31, 2012 @ 02:07:06 AM
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#29 Right, we should let them nickel and dime our asses.

You're a fucking idiot. Don't you see the slippery slope this is?

How long until more and more content is locked? How long until companies charge more for an online pass?

I like KoA, but I take a firm stance against this bullshit. If they get shut down, fine, I'm fucking sorry they did, but you can't use that to garner sympathy for online passes.


Forum Posts: 44
Comment #159 by Solomon Fuere
Tuesday, January 31, 2012 @ 02:08:40 AM
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We're heading for another crash and all you people can do is watch and not say a word for fear of being ostracized for your opinion.

Fuck you.


Forum Posts: 605
Comment #160 by pauly_27
Tuesday, January 31, 2012 @ 03:03:37 AM
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The people for this seem quick to throw the "entitled" argument about.

Using the car dealership is a bad analogy, ok, but let's compare gaming to other comparable items in the entertainment industry, namely music albums and movies.

Would you be happy to (for example) buy a second hand copy of Guns N Roses greatest hits? - hey, wanna listen to Sweet Child o Mine? pony up a microtransaction.

Wanna watch a preowned or ex-rental copy of American Pie - hey wanna see Jim fuck the pie? pony up a microtransaction.

And yes, that is a viable comparison.

Entitlement eh, surely it's the video game developers that need to answer to those accusations, because currently no other form of digital entertainment does this.


Forum Posts: 311
Comment #161 by BUZZARDIO 1080
Tuesday, January 31, 2012 @ 03:26:55 AM
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@159 and 160 , second hand gaming is the slippery slope/crash , think about it.


Forum Posts: 155
Comment #162 by Tommy English
Tuesday, January 31, 2012 @ 04:39:34 AM
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This isn't the first time this has happened? Developers get nothing for second hand games so they have to make their game a day one purchase for as many gamers as possible. If they don't make the sales then no more studio. Also if they don't sell any new games but it becomes a popular second hand game then the dev might not create more games in the franchise because it was, in their eyes, unsuccessful. I think it's just something we as gamers are going to have to deal with if we want new and awesome IPs to keep cropping up. This is a very risky time for games devs atm.

OT: Is the voice in that video Claudia Black?


Forum Posts: 152
Comment #163 by Russman
Tuesday, January 31, 2012 @ 06:16:07 AM
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Honestly I agree with him, and I wish more Devs were like him and his team. I never had a problem with passes and DLC because they are in a business, and that's what they do is make money. But they need to remember that an online pass can cause the game to end up in the bargain bin just as fast.


Forum Posts: 271
Comment #164 by the action frampton
Tuesday, January 31, 2012 @ 07:09:26 AM
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@82 your used car example is plain wrong. Not all parts for cars are produced by the original manufacturer. There are plenty of third party part manufacturers and the parts are usually cheaper. Know what you're talking about before you start telling others they are wrong.

On topic, probably give this game a miss anyway, but the devs made the mistake here because of the wording they used. They so should have just said extra content for buying new, NOT that content would be locked if buying used.

I'm in the boat that companies survived up to this point without DLC; There has always been a used market, and all the companies who have produced good games have been successful without online passes. It's just greed. I can only see new sales suffering because people will wait for the rrp to drop.


Forum Posts: 6
Comment #165 by Carnage seo
Tuesday, January 31, 2012 @ 08:29:30 AM
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it grinds my gears, in my house i have 2 xbox's as me and my wife are gamers. these online codes piss me off, why is it that we have to pay out for more stuff. Battlefield 3 is online pass code, my wife used it and i missed out... i cant keep paying out everytime for pass codes its not on, i payed £49.99 the ltd and then i have to buy 800 ms points on top of that ! and i cant be the only one, what about familys with 2+ xbox's (i.e kids) and a small income, does not seem fair at all.


Forum Posts: 57
Comment #166 by TheTCD
Tuesday, January 31, 2012 @ 09:44:42 AM
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@166 If you paid £60 for a copy of BF3 then you, sir, are a mug. You could have gone to a supermarket like Asda or Sainsbury's and bought TWO copies for just a little over that, both of them brand new, both with online passes. And yes, both Limited Edition.

Either learn to be more frugal, or find something else to complain about. The developers are certainly not to blame for that.


Forum Posts: 39
Comment #167 by Rodeo Legend
Tuesday, January 31, 2012 @ 02:10:14 PM
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@12
this is not a question of retailers. A car dealership DOES NOT make cars. you need a new analogy.

besides, video game developers are working hard to make money, and I think it is only fare that those willing to buy new should get a bonus. Sorry all you bargin kids that don't think artist should be paid for thier work, but I have to agree with this practise.


Forum Posts: 5
Comment #168 by HVAC Techie
Tuesday, January 31, 2012 @ 06:39:26 PM
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I don't get why people would complain about this. Not every game is going to be a Skyrim, so they need alternate ways of getting some money.


Forum Posts: 0
Comment #169 by flechetteXXX
Tuesday, January 31, 2012 @ 08:54:31 PM
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Its so sad how many people absolutely have know idea what they are talking about or how the industry works.


Forum Posts: 8
Comment #170 by kewlio17
Tuesday, January 31, 2012 @ 09:13:20 PM
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@35 content on the disc is not dlc. surely your not talking about Disc Locked Content (DLC)


Forum Posts: 605
Comment #171 by pauly_27
Tuesday, January 31, 2012 @ 11:45:53 PM
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@#170

Yeah, people just like you right?

Please do tell of your apparent in depth knowledge of the industry. I could do with a laugh.


Forum Posts: 190
Comment #172 by Magus 0f Zeal
Wednesday, February 01, 2012 @ 08:32:58 AM
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We get it. The analogy is bad. It'd be more like buying other used electronics or second-hand clothing. Even then there are subtle differences.

I think companies should do like Battlefield (still pass though right?) Darkness II, Prototype 2, Dragon Age II (although they still had pass), etc. where they offer a Limited/Collector's Edition of the game for pre-orders and early adopters of the game. I think it would be a win-win. Loyalists are rewarded and game companies don't seem as shady. Also there's a slim chance if you wait and rent the game and enjoy it you can try and get a copy before the LEs are sold out. I know Best Buy recently got into the used market (stupid, I know) but in the US Gamestop is pretty much the dominator in the used games area. If game companies wanted they could deny the Limited Edition to certain businesses. I'm not sure it would have any effect but it just looks and sounds better.


Forum Posts: 0
Comment #173 by aaelon
Wednesday, February 01, 2012 @ 11:52:20 AM
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I don't know what the big deal is it will be cheaper in a few months anyway. People just need things now and have no patience, I have a back log of games to play as it is, so I can wait a month or two.


Forum Posts: 108
Comment #174 by Slayinfool
Wednesday, February 01, 2012 @ 11:54:27 AM
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There is only one problem with good ol "honest" Curt Schilling's story. This is typical EA tactics. They do stuff like this with all they're games. Locking us out of content and features till we buy the product new. Sorry Curt, but BS...


Forum Posts: 46
Comment #175 by Beast Rider42
Wednesday, February 01, 2012 @ 01:09:58 PM
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they have my support 2


Forum Posts: 1896
Comment #176 by Joker0fLife
Friday, February 03, 2012 @ 06:19:19 AM
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I don't understand the deal with complaining about Online Passes. You get the game used, you pay another 10 dollars to get the pass...you're still getting the game cheaper than what you would pay full price. And if you're like me and have Gamefly, well shit, you still save a shit ton of money. I understand where people are coming from though, asking parents for money is a tough deal nowadays...


Forum Posts: 5
Comment #177 by Arem1771
Saturday, February 04, 2012 @ 10:38:08 AM
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This better not affect the Mass Effect 3 armor I unlocked. I played the demo and wasn't impressed, so I'm passing on the game. I still unlocked the ME3 junk though, so I'm hoping this doesn't harm that.


Forum Posts: 108
Comment #178 by Slayinfool
Tuesday, February 07, 2012 @ 08:10:10 AM
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I for the life of me can't understand how alienating players by locking out content is important to the "studio's survival"? Seems like a sure way to stab yourself in the foot. This is nothing more then EA online pass bullsh*t that they have become notorious for. I was going to buy this game but now I'm now simply out of spite.

*middle finger*


Forum Posts: 3
Comment #179 by messiah monk
Tuesday, February 07, 2012 @ 12:07:59 PM
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In a nice way he saying that there is alot of wana-be gamers out there who wish that they can be true gamers. For the true gamer, here you go. A thank you gift. For the wana be gamer you "GAVE us NOTHING, SO YOU gets NOTHING." I dont see people ever complain to Gamestop about how the dollars they spend does not go to the Dev Company and that they should give the Dev Company a cut. I dont see people complain about how They spent$60.00 on a game and on the same day they beat the game(for hose who are skilled enough to do so) trade the game in and take a $40.00 dollar loss. I do not trade, "NOT A SINGLE GAME" in because from hustler's point of view what sense does it make to spend sixty only to get back twenty. If cant support ya hobby/habit then ya need to let it go. I love racing but the cost for parts are expensive. So you know what people I cant fake the funk and call myself a racer. If ya cant afford a punk $60.00 game ya cant call ya self a gamer. You dabble when ya can afford to. I OWN 272 XBOX games alone. PS3 48 games, Wii 4 games. Not to mention NES/SNES/N64/GC/SEGA MASTER SYSTEM thru Dreamcast/PS2. Just cause I can cook doesn't make me a chef, "Ya Feel Me". "IF YA DON'T WANT THE PASS, DON'T BUY IT!


Forum Posts: 3
Comment #180 by messiah monk
Tuesday, February 07, 2012 @ 12:44:33 PM
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@#15 Wow the reason this whole online pass was created because dumb people like you walk this earth. Lets say a game sold 500,000 new copies, which means 30 million was made. Out of that 500k, 450k got traded in right. All the poor and cheap traded it back and forth a million times, lets say at $30.00. only Gamestop see that money which is again 30 million. So Gamestop gets the same amount of money that the Devs got but Gamestop put not even $1.00 into its development. What would you do if someone robbed you for Thirty million dollars, "MORE THAN ONCE"?!!..... Thought so, ya damned idiot.


Forum Posts: 405
Comment #181 by neverendr
Wednesday, February 08, 2012 @ 10:42:45 PM
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This is just another case of a developer becoming a pawn of EA and adopting their tactics. I have this game preordered and I've been excited to play it, but the online pass for a single player title makes me want to cancel my copy on principal. I think I'm going to go ahead and get it, but this nonsense is going too far. I buy almost all of my blu-rays used, as a local shop gets new releases traded in within 3-4 days generally, and sells them for $11.99 (they buy them back for $9 or $12 store credit). I get 3 movies for the retail of 1, the people who sell them back get exactly what the store sells them for if they want to get another BD/DVD/CD...quite an ethical business model compared to gamestop and the like.


Forum Posts: 0
Comment #182 by xXAlwayzStiffXx
Monday, February 13, 2012 @ 04:53:28 PM
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It makes me laugh to hear all the yanks complain about paying $60USD for a new game when here in Australia were paying $100AUS and our dollar is higher then yours atm.. So I think you have little to complain about...


Forum Posts: 241
Comment #183 by three15
Friday, February 17, 2012 @ 06:54:27 AM
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Didn't get a pass in the box when i rented it, can't say i've even noticed i need one to be honest.


Forum Posts: 55
Comment #184 by GamesGuru1
Monday, February 20, 2012 @ 01:38:35 PM
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Having read most of the posts here I feel I need to point out a few, well points to some people. Firstly as I work in retail myself I understand the need for a developer to make a profit on my product, if I don't I don't get paid simple. However I also understand that if I piss off my comsumer in some way they'll go elsewere and not buy my product. Now with big developers like EA they can afford to lose a few customers who will flat out refuse to buy their new game, but those smaller developers like 30 Studios... customers won't/don't care thet their smaller and will be hurt more, they'll just see another devloper screwing them over on their new game just like it has been since before heck ever Bioshock 2!

What a lot of people seem to forget is that gaming is, for most people like me, a hobby ('cept for a few individuals that shall remain anonymous). And like most hobbies... you forget about it when times get tough. As a homeowner with a wife, a mortgage, bills, two cats and a baby boy (not much huh)I know that when I'm faced with buying food or buying a new game the choice is easy!

As much as I love Reckoning the only reason I bought it full price is due to the fact I had games to trade in that came to over two thirds of the retail price, so to me, the pre-owned market is a necessary evil for most people who aren't rich or still living with their parents and don't know what outgoings are lol. The only danger is that the whole 'online pass' will be treated as scapegoat for developers to insist on you buying the game brand new, and if you bully someone into doing something in my experience (myself included) then they'll simple push back. Thanks EA lmao =oS

Another method of ensuring quality needs to be implimented that satisfies the customer that they're getting what they've paid for while the game makers get the money they deserve for all their hard work methinks!!

Ok that's my rant over... who's next =oD


Forum Posts: 55
Comment #185 by GamesGuru1
Monday, February 20, 2012 @ 01:39:50 PM
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Having read most of the posts here I feel I need to point out a few, well points to some people. Firstly as I work in retail myself I understand the need for a developer to make a profit on my product, if I don't I don't get paid simple. However I also understand that if I piss off my comsumer in some way they'll go elsewere and not buy my product. Now with big developers like EA they can afford to lose a few customers who will flat out refuse to buy their new game, but those smaller developers like 30 Studios... customers won't/don't care thet their smaller and will be hurt more, they'll just see another devloper screwing them over on their new game just like it has been since before heck ever Bioshock 2!

What a lot of people seem to forget is that gaming is, for most people like me, a hobby ('cept for a few individuals that shall remain anonymous). And like most hobbies... you forget about it when times get tough. As a homeowner with a wife, a mortgage, bills, two cats and a baby boy (not much huh)I know that when I'm faced with buying food or buying a new game the choice is easy!

As much as I love Reckoning the only reason I bought it full price is due to the fact I had games to trade in that came to over two thirds of the retail price, so to me, the pre-owned market is a necessary evil for most people who aren't rich or still living with their parents and don't know what outgoings are lol. The only danger is that the whole 'online pass' will be treated as scapegoat for developers to insist on you buying the game brand new, and if you bully someone into doing something in my experience (myself included) then they'll simple push back. Thanks EA lmao =oS

Another method of ensuring quality needs to be implimented that satisfies the customer that they're getting what they've paid for while the game makers get the money they deserve for all their hard work methinks!!

Ok that's my rant over... who's next =oD


Forum Posts: 55
Comment #186 by GamesGuru1
Monday, February 20, 2012 @ 01:43:06 PM
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Having read most of the posts here I feel I need to point out a few, well points to some people. Firstly as I work in retail myself I understand the need for a developer to make a profit on my product, if I don't I don't get paid simple. However I also understand that if I piss off my comsumer in some way they'll go elsewere and not buy my product. Now with big developers like EA they can afford to lose a few customers who will flat out refuse to buy their new game, but those smaller developers like 30 Studios... customers won't/don't care thet their smaller and will be hurt more, they'll just see another devloper screwing them over on their new game just like it has been since before heck ever Bioshock 2!

What a lot of people seem to forget is that gaming is, for most people like me, a hobby ('cept for a few individuals that shall remain anonymous). And like most hobbies... you forget about it when times get tough. As a homeowner with a wife, a mortgage, bills, two cats and a baby boy (not much huh)I know that when I'm faced with buying food or buying a new game the choice is easy!

As much as I love Reckoning the only reason I bought it full price is due to the fact I had games to trade in that came to over two thirds of the retail price, so to me, the pre-owned market is a necessary evil for most people who aren't rich or still living with their parents and don't know what outgoings are lol. The only danger is that the whole 'online pass' will be treated as scapegoat for developers to insist on you buying the game brand new, and if you bully someone into doing something in my experience (myself included) then they'll simple push back. Thanks EA lmao =oS

Another method of ensuring quality needs to be implimented that satisfies the customer that they're getting what they've paid for while the game makers get the money they deserve for all their hard work methinks!!

Ok that's my rant over... who's next =oD


Forum Posts: 55
Comment #187 by GamesGuru1
Monday, February 20, 2012 @ 01:54:51 PM
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Whoops sorry, didn't mean to post the same thing three times... my browser crashed so i clicked refresh so guess it re-posted lol. Not being big headed honest!


Forum Posts: 43
Comment #188 by nemeton
Friday, February 24, 2012 @ 06:04:31 AM
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To be honest I do see his point, but I almost never buy used games anyway, far too expensive. For example, last week bought Alice in Wonderland NEW for £12, or £20 second hand (from the SAME SHOP!) Before that Hunted, New £9, £20 second hand (again from the same shop)

I find this is usually the case, wait one year and the "new" game will be cheaper than the second hand one by about £5-£10. Problem solved, I get a good deal and the developer gets my money (not as much as they would have had I bought it day one, but I cannot afford that, and getting something is better than nothing). And to be honest waiting one year is not the end of the world. It’s not like I really have to wait and do nothing as all the games everyone bought new last year I will by this year, so I still will have plenty of "new" games to play.

And there is also the added benefit that by the time I get the game all the patches have been released so I don’t have to suffer any annoying bugs that new games tend to ship with.


Forum Posts: 9
Comment #189 by Demon Bob
Tuesday, February 28, 2012 @ 04:15:56 AM
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I can't believe how ridiculous some people are being about this situation, considering this is supposed to be a site for achievements. I have brought this game brand new and I didnt even register that it had an online pass until about a week later. This game is amazing! The extra contend included with the pass does not effect the full 1000, so what is the big issue? It wont make any difference to your score whether you buy it brand new or pre-owned. Isn't that why you people use this site... or have i just happened to stuble across a "who can spit their dummy out of their pram the furthest competition?"


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Game Info
Developer:
38 Studios
Publisher:
Electronic Arts
Genre:

Release:

US February 07, 2012
Europe February 10, 2012

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